ATH First Round Match #1 LeeJM Versus Shagnasti

beakerjoe

Its time for the 1st match of the 2016 Around The Horn competition and its seasoned boardsie Vet, Shagnasti taking one the well respected LeeJM, who is new to the game as far as I'm aware. Have at it Guys!

A reminder of the rules :

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

So, thats the format guys, any question just PM me or ask in the discussion thread. Your question is as follows..... :

Q1. With the Brand Split on the horizon, Vince wants a big push on tag teams to fill up each show. Vinnie Mac has ordered you to make a push a new tag team.
But Vince doesnt want to promote any teams from NXT, instead, to cut costs, Vince wants you to create a team by pairing two underutilized wrestlers currently on the roster in similar vein to the recnt pairings of Golden Truth and Breezango.

So who will you pair together?, why are these two a good fit?, do they have a new gimmick or fancy entrance? Its all up to you!

After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?



Good luck guys

LeeJM

Ladies and gents allow me to introduce what should be the newest WWE tag team post Draft




Luke Harper and Neville

Origin story ; Neville is drafted to Smackdown and one of the final draft picks sees Luke Harper drafted to Smackdown while The Wyatts stay on Raw. Neville returns from his injury and is included in 6 man tags, 8 man tags alongside The New Day for weeks with Neville always getting the winning pin. And week by week he begins to become cockier and more arrogant.

At the same time a hooded figure has attacked Xavier Woods numerous times both backstage and ringside. Following another 6 man tag win alongside Big E and Kofi (following Xavier being attacked backstage again) Neville cuts a promo on The New Day saying it apparent that the only reason they have been winning recently is because of him. Big E takes exception to this and gets in Nevilles face while Kofi tries to play peacekeeper. The hooded figure comes in from the crowd and jumps Big E. Its Luke Harper and Neville and Luke lay out both Big E and Kofi with their finisher of a Harper powerbomb with springboard crossbody from Neville.

My reason for picking these two ; Luke Harper has been wasted in The Wyatts for the last 2 yrs. He is not like Rowan and Strowman, he doesnt need to be led by anybody. He is a capable worker and also a decent promo in his own way. His character needs refreshing and playing like a Diesel type protector to Nevilles Shawn Michaels seems like a role he would excel in.

Neville while being spectacular has done little of consequence since getting the call up from NXT. A slow build heel turn into a cocky little so and so with the big guy muscle to watch his back just makes sense to me. This would give Neville a chance to really play up his athleticism with the attitude of "yea Im so good I can do this and nobody else can" while also being able to play the chickensh*t heel too. The big guy little guy dynamic has been done before but these two together would be able to deliver great matches against a variety of tag teams like The New Day, The Vauds, American Alpha, The Revival etc.

Looks wise Harper would be ditching the jeans and vest look. Id have him in long tights and boots to match Neville who would also change up his look slightly by having the AJ Styles/Tyson Kidd style shorts and kickpads. Team name would be The Hybrid Elite.

ShagNastii

Tag Team: Republican Muscle (Big Show and Jake Swagger)

Origin: No better time than now to create ourselves a tag team, lets strike whilst the iron is hot. We've had a nice little 4th of July celebration with perennial plucky underdog Zack Ryder and Big Show embracing in the ring after disposing of the wicked foreigners. They're a great team aren't they? I think so WWE thinks so :cool: So much so after two or three weeks of beating the likes of Goldust/Truth et el the WWE makeshift patriot team are going to be central in a huge marquee event as themselves and John Cena shall lead the ceremonies in the WWE Network special "The Great American Bash" with very very special guest possible president elect Mr. Donald Trump (total pipe dream but if ever the WWE want him involved in the product it is now).

Formation: We don't have a main event at this show but in fact we have a "bash" for one of WWE's Greatest Americans the one and only John Cena:rolleyes: The party is as red, white and blue as you can get. In ring we have Ryder who is presenting along side yank flag attired Big Show. They smile, they "YES!!" and they dollop all the -John Cena true american- stuff. He isintroduced and the crowd go wild as he is decked out in his newest t-shirt and hat. As he shakes hands with Show and Ryder he humbly states that he is only a great american because he leads a company that are lead and followed by great americans. You the fans.

John Cena "Please look at the titantron as I have made a tribute to you guys"

Just as the promo clocks on we hear Donald Trumps theme and out comes the real greatest American. Trump cuts a promo as both Ryder and Cena look on with disgust. He goes on a complete rant as he does. He is buying tickets for himself and is really getting in Cenas face. Ryder grabs him and tells him to back off.

Trump: "Who the hell are you?! I could buy and sell you, you little dweeb. When you have money, power, brains like me you can do anything. Money. Power. Brains and hell if the price is right you can buy yourself some brawn....isn't that right Show?"

The second he says this Big Show wallops Ryder with a W.M.D. Cena stunned, runs for Show and is caught with a hefty choke-slam. The duo rise again as Trump laughs and orders around his new investment to continue the ambush. Big Cass and Enzo storm the ring but are like the other two beaten by the giant who now has a chair that has been given to him by Trump. It all goes quiet until Jake Swagger's theme blares from the speakers. He gives a loud "WE THE PEOPLE" (the crowd pipe in) at the top of the ramp. He legs it to the ring. We have ourselves an American fairytale with this patriot coming to save the day. He rockets into the ring and shockingly runs straight past Show, leaping on the second rope to deliver a Swagger bomb to the fallen Cena.

He stops, shakes hands with both Trump and Show. The trio hold their hands aloft with victory. Here is your new tag team, the Donald Trump endorsed Republican Muscle .

The Gimmick: Big Show will become the dapper politician mold, spewing Trump-ism week in week out. There is no doubt the guy can talk and this will be a fresh start. Swagger will redeem his old persona but it will be much less grizzled, well turned out but still with a bit of a "MURICA" feel to him.

In ring they'll be pure hoss trying to outbully each other in their matches. Something the tag division will always have space for is a Natural Disaster-like big man team. Presentation-wise Show will be have phoney Republican video promos talking pure crap with the guise of him and Swagger out to make America AND the WWE great again. Big Show will hold the reigns with his firecracker pitbull swagger to keep in tow.

They'll have the oval office backstage. It'll look pretty governmental and official but deep down these aren't the politicians they'll like you to believe. These are big bully 'muricans. They'll be original but very much APA in JBL's clothing.

VOTE REPUBLICAN MUSCLE

LeeJM

Nice choice Shag. In theory SwagShow would be a good team but in reality its just another crappy Big Show team like GunnShow (Billy Gunn), ShowMiz (The Miz), JeriShow (Chris Jericho) and his on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off team with Kane.

And another issue is your team would again involve a face Big Show SWERVE turning on Cena cos SWERVE. I mean thats only been done like 6 times. Also there is more chance of Linda McMahon being Donalds vice president than there is of Trump showing up on Raw or Smackdown anytime in the next 5 years.

Also we have seen Swagger do the American stuff in the suit when he was WHC, it sucked. And I think we are to the stage where no matter what happens Big Show isnt getting any crowd heat. Nobody cares anymore about him and for that reason alone the team would be doomed from the get go.

ShagNastii

Ah now, I'll give you ShowGunns but ShoMiz and Jerishow were decent teams. They were well received and entertaining for their short runs.

I can somewhat accept your eye rolling at yet another turn for Big Show but I think the way it has been planned out it would be clear that this big "swerve" it not one that belongs to The Big Show it belongs to Swagger and Trump if you know what I mean. Speaking of, we were asked to form a tag team and I think the whataboutary regarding whether Trump would appear is quite moot. He has that link to the WWE and they're/I'm going to use it.

It's all about moments and segments looking at WWE history. The moment I've created with Trump would be a massive deal. Trump-Show-Swagger all smirky in front of the American flag. This is what I'll remember not a Luke Harper unveiling. Yeah it's novel but it really would be nothing special. Given who it is it'd more than like just leave crowds head scratching "OK????? Oh Luke Harper. So he isn't a cult member hillbilly now"

You comment on suited Swagger sucking? You have to remember that was many years ago not long after his debut. He tried to do serious Jericho and he couldn't. Swagger will be suited and booted alright but he will be by no means the mouthpiece here. Bit like the Coulter stuff that was brilliant and cut short too soon. This time it's less about racism and more about preaching Trump's "republican values".

They'll be equal but Swagger will be at times be Shows pit bull. It's all about Show showing his grade A mic skills and having another hoss to destroy competition-in ring. Joe Soap is still interested in Big Show. It's the rabid section of the IWC who dislike the guy. They can be won over with this new direction easily. I heard it of Del Rio after MITB "That is the Del Rio I wanna see". Same for Show.

I commend your idea but I think you've picked two guys that don't fit and in Neville you have a guy that just doesn't have that aura or feel to becoming a "cocky look at me" heel. The way he is packaged now revolves solely around his highflying moveset and IMO that's really all he has to offer. He is very like RVD. You think suit Swagger sucked RVD as a heel sucked. You are tweaking Neville but I honestly think if he did Shawn Michaels-lite he wouldn't have the promo skills to pull it off. My gut says it'd be completely forced.

Big Daddy Cool Harper again would feel unnatural to me. He has been Luke Harper for far too long now to repackage the guy. It would need some whopper story to explain why the old starey eyed horror character has now become a glorified bouncer for Mr Flash Neville. The kick pad attire you talk of are a trillion miles away from big boots and overalls. It would be a hard sell to the fans for sure.

beakerjoe

Poll added, 1 rebuttal left each boys

LeeJM

ShagNastii wrote: »

Ah now, I'll give you ShowGunns but ShoMiz and Jerishow were decent teams. They were well received and entertaining for their short runs.

I can somewhat accept your eye rolling at yet another turn for Big Show but I think the way it has been planned out it would be clear that this big "swerve" it not one that belongs to The Big Show it belongs to Swagger and Trump if you know what I mean. Speaking of, we were asked to form a tag team and I think the whataboutary regarding whether Trump would appear is quite moot. He has that link to the WWE and they're/I'm going to use it.

It's all about moments and segments looking at WWE history. The moment I've created with Trump would be a massive deal. Trump-Show-Swagger all smirky in front of the American flag. This is what I'll remember not a Luke Harper unveiling. Yeah it's novel but it really would be nothing special. Given who it is it'd more than like just leave crowds head scratching "OK????? Oh Luke Harper. So he isn't a cult member hillbilly now"

You comment on suited Swagger sucking? You have to remember that was many years ago not long after his debut. He tried to do serious Jericho and he couldn't. Swagger will be suited and booted alright but he will be by no means the mouthpiece here. Bit like the Coulter stuff that was brilliant and cut short too soon. This time it's less about racism and more about preaching Trump's "republican values".

They'll be equal but Swagger will be at times be Shows pit bull. It's all about Show showing his grade A mic skills and having another hoss to destroy competition-in ring. Joe Soap is still interested in Big Show. It's the rabid section of the IWC who dislike the guy. They can be won over with this new direction easily. I heard it of Del Rio after MITB "That is the Del Rio I wanna see". Same for Show.

I commend your idea but I think you've picked two guys that don't fit and in Neville you have a guy that just doesn't have that aura or feel to becoming a "cocky look at me" heel. The way he is packaged now revolves solely around his highflying moveset and IMO that's really all he has to offer. He is very like RVD. You think suit Swagger sucked RVD as a heel sucked. You are tweaking Neville but I honestly think if he did Shawn Michaels-lite he wouldn't have the promo skills to pull it off. My gut says it'd be completely forced.

Big Daddy Cool Harper again would feel unnatural to me. He has been Luke Harper for far too long now to repackage the guy. It would need some whopper story to explain why the old starey eyed horror character has now become a glorified bouncer for Mr Flash Neville. The kick pad attire you talk of are a trillion miles away from big boots and overalls. It would be a hard sell to the fans for sure.

Sorry should have been clearer Neville would be in kickpads and Harper would just be in tights and regular boots. Wouldnt need to be that crazy of a story, Harper did a few tours of Dragon Gate while Neville was a star in that promotion. A little bit of backstory explaining Neville looked after Harper in Jpn and now Harper is returning the favour. And Harper has always been a character that gives off a sense of Wyatt needs him more than he needs Wyatt. Like he sees what Bray says and doesnt fully buy it unlike Rowan who is just a simpleton that needs a leader.

Neville wouldnt need to be Shawn Michaels like on the mic as his cockiness would shine through in ring. Im not expecting the team to launch huge solo careers for Harper and Nev like it did for HBK and Nash, they were just an explain I used to explain how the team would work. A heel Neville just bouncing around doing stupid flips on worn down opposition after Harper has beat them down while wearing a shìt eating grin is guaranteed heat.

You say joe soap isnt fed up with Show, yet in front of non smarky crowds he has fans chanting "please retire". Nobody wants to see Big Show as the main receipiant of a rub from Donald Trump.

Swagger fits this role quite well tbh and I would be lying if I tried to pick fault with your choosing of him in this situation. However I would worry that the "We the people" would still garner more cheers than boos. Dont forget Vince is a massive Republican supporter so he would be inclined to look to garner cheers for this whenever possible.

I do think your idea in theory could work IF and its a huge IF Trump would appear. But IMO the massive flaw is your selection of Big Show. His involvment just instantly discredits the whole thing to be honest. I think Apollo Crews or even Baron Corbin could have been much better in the role if they were to share the promo time with Swagger or even better give them a manager.

And having seen Show in soooo many different teams him holding the tag titles again would juat lead to an overall devaluing of the tag division as a whole. And lets not foeget we already have American Alpha and Vince hates acts having the same style gimmick so I cant see an American political team ever happening.

ShagNastii

America Alpha are pure athletes. There isn't much "America" to them. My suggestion is a full blown House of Cards tag team. As ruthless as politicians- inside and outside the ring. All the BS and cheating hidden behind an American flag.

My idea anchors on the Big Show being given the ball to use his very underrated mic skills, be it on commentary, promos or skits. He can do it we've seen it. Your idea is great but who carries the stickwork end of things your end. Both have floundered on the main roster because of their below par work outside of the ring.

It's an unfortunate reality in today's product. Look at all the movers and shakers in the tag division at the minute. New Day, Dudleyz, Cas & Enzo, The Vaudevillians. They can all go in the ring for sure and certainly comparable to any crop of tag teams over the years at all very decent hands in terms of promos.

I know you mention it wouldn't be a carbon copy of Diesel/HBK but as always the cries of a throwback will have to be taken on. The lads were F'n badass and nigh on perfect. The Hybrid Elite probably not so much. Frodo ears and a daft accent? Bald patch and a bushy looking beard? Hybrid alright but nothing really elite about that.

Final kink in your suggestion is linked to the fact your idea would be a step back for both. Neville's return will be a huge deal as it is. The man that gravity forgot is a fantastic gimmick that WWE have got behind. Harper, like Wyatt, is grand as he is. Wyatts have been knocking that main event door and I have no doubt will break through this year. As you said, on the Wyatt pyramid Harper and Wyatt are certainly at the up. In short the talent you suggested ain't broken there is no need to fix them.