Cattle shot on Monaghan farm.

sword1

Jb1989 wrote: »

NOT for the easily offended

Video of the few animals lying on ground


http://youtu.be/tXryIHOpJqo

All decent farmers would hate to see animals like that
If cab or who ever was that interested, then the gates should've been guarded 24/7, if their blaming vandals for cutting chains.

Wasn't the animals fault to be gunned down for the public to see.

Some 'human or humans' needs thorough investigation for pantomime of a killing spree!

Same video is the 2nd post in this thread

topmanamillion

An awful lot of misinformation here.
The herd had tested positive for TB, the handlers were unable to move them.
Not surprising as they were unfamiliar with them and I doubt the owner was too cooperative.
I've also heard they'd been wandering the roads.
The whole thing was a mess and it's unfortunate they couldn't have been brought to a proper facility to do it in but the animals had to be culled. End of story.

Jb1989

sword1 wrote: »

Same video is the 2nd post in this thread

Thanks Thought it was, but checked back and didn't see it, someone only just sent me the video link by text message

Anyway my thought of rest of post still stand.

Jb1989

topmanamillion wrote: »

An awful lot of misinformation here.
The herd had tested positive for TB, the handlers were unable to move them.
Not surprising as they were unfamiliar with them and I doubt the owner was too cooperative.
I've also heard they'd been wondering the roads.
The whole thing was a mess and it's unfortunate they couldn't have been brought to a proper facility to do it in but the animals had to be culled. End of story.

True enough regarding the info bit,
I agree with the tb possibility,

But If anything it shows the the joke of Tb infected beast on a revenue noticed holding being left unattended for anybody to set them free.

Disease prevention is twisted at times.

topmanamillion

Jb1989 wrote: »

True enough regarding the info bit,
I agree with the tb possibility,

But If anything it shows the the joke of Tb infected beast on a revenue noticed holding being left unattended for anybody to set them free.

Disease prevention is twisted at times.

Seeing as it was the farmer who notified the media I would suspect the farmer was still in situ.
Theres much more to the story than "De bad mun in de guverment shat mo cows"!

ganmo

sword1 wrote: »

No big deal, similar events in Dublin regularly

been a while since i heard of cattle shot on this side of dublin, about 10 years ago or so

Capercaillie

Picture in Irish Times showing Army ranger that culled the animals:

viztopia

I understand that the owner of these cattle would be good friends with our gerry and emy lou. Has a particular preference for a certain colour of motor fuel and will go to great lenghts to share it with customers. Bought a local pub, knocked it and rebuilt it.

screamer

Shot by trained soldiers or shot in an abattoir it's all the same at least the army guys are well trained to take things out. Cattle are bred to die that's their fate that's why they're farmed right? So I don't understand the who ha at all with this story. cattle equal beef not pets.

oneten

screamer wrote: »

Shot by trained soldiers or shot in an abattoir it's all the same at least the army guys are well trained to take things out. Cattle are bred to die that's their fate that's why they're farmed right? So I don't understand the who ha at all with this story. cattle equal beef not pets.

True
More to the point how many farmers investigate or care what manner their cattle are slaughtered in ?
Stunned with captive bolt and bled, or just neck sliced while fully conscious as practiced by a certain cult as per instructions from their sky fairy.

whelan2

What bank brought the bankruptcy proceedings?

viztopia

whelan2 wrote: »

What bank brought the bankruptcy proceedings?

Was it a bank or CAB?

Willfarman

If there were gates being opened and cattle could get to the road then it was a messy situation. Was this happening and who was doing it?

whelan2

viztopia wrote: »

Was it a bank or CAB?

Was reading an article were it named the farmer said bankruptcy proceedings were being brought over a 300k debt. Will read it again. It is from the Irish independent

cursai

Some people are dying to get offended and outraged. Looking at one sided videos faking disgust and outrage.

ganmo

There's so much mud slinging in this that no side comes out clean
Whoever called in the shooters dept/Garda were acting in the best interest of public safety

whelan2

ganmo wrote: »

There's so much mud slinging in this that no side comes out clean
Whoever called in the shooters dept/Garda were acting in the best interest of public safety

Would local knackery man not have done the job just as well. Where the shooters on site or were they called in.

C0N0R

whelan2 wrote: »

Would local knackery man not have done the job just as well. Where the shooters on site or were they called in.

Id imagine local knackery man would only be useful at close range, I know our man only carries a .22 which would be useless and inhumane to use on cattle at any distance.

foggy_lad

Reggie. wrote: »

Snipers always work in pairs. Can't make it out properly but they don't look like army issue rifles. Could possibly be rangers but who knows. Easy to say it was defence forces by the Dept

From my limited knowledge(from some members of defence forces and FCA) when the Army are called upon to kill animals it is the local Gardai who make the request and they often contact local known members of the Army and F.C.A. who are known to be involved in hunting so should be more than capable of dispatching a few heifers. Most of these will be in the F.C.A. or off duty members of the defence forces so will not be in full uniform and will not be using Army issued weapons or ammunition.

The request would also be made through the nearest barracks who would then give permission for defence forces personnel to take part.

Willfarman wrote: »

If there were gates being opened and cattle could get to the road then it was a messy situation. Was this happening and who was doing it?

The collection agent had been called out at night to the area a number of times because the animals had been released from fields onto the public roads, chains and locks were cut to open gates.

These people knew they were going to lose the animals but were making sure that those involved would pay a high price. I imagine that letting the animals out on the road was in the hope they would be hit by cars and then the bank or agent would be hit with massive damages bills as well as being seen as incapable of managing the situation.

Reggie.

foggy_lad wrote: »

From my limited knowledge(from some members of defence forces and FCA) when the Army are called upon to kill animals it is the local Gardai who make the request and they often contact local known members of the Army and F.C.A. who are known to be involved in hunting so should be more than capable of dispatching a few heifers. Most of these will be in the F.C.A. or off duty members of the defence forces so will not be in full uniform and will not be using Army issued weapons or ammunition.

The request would also be made through the nearest barracks who would then give permission for defence forces personnel to take part.

The collection agent had been called out at night to the area a number of times because the animals had been released from fields onto the public roads, chains and locks were cut to open gates.

These people knew they were going to lose the animals but were making sure that those involved would pay a high price. I imagine that letting the animals out on the road was in the hope they would be hit by cars and then the bank or agent would be hit with massive damages bills as well as being seen as incapable of managing the situation.

Permission would not come from local barracks. That would have to come from the brigade headquarters as it is known as ATCP. Very messy work legality wise. Could not see this being authorised by the DF unless the garda comissioner signed off on it. If DF were involved only issued weapons could be legally used by the shooters. No civilian weapons would be legal at that point

Dozer1

Regardless of the shooting of these animals what pisses me off most is that if all these agencies CAB especially were involved then there was more going than plane farming.

There are column headlines media reports and every keyboard warrior up in arms about it.

Yet nothing like this level of attention is given to actual real farmers issues and you can take your pick at those, prices for our produce, delay after delay in dept paying us the money we are owed for the various schemes we are in etc.

Instead we hear everyone's opinion about 5 bloody heifers being shot, christ they were limousins chances are they probably were a bit bloody nuts

Water John

Ah dozer, don't tar all limousins with the one brush.

Army took out some cattle that could not be tested, locally a few years ago.
In fairness it was the remnants of the herd. Most had been got in to another farmers yard and tested by neighbours. All done in liaison with the Dept of Ag.

Arrow in the Knee

It's on Today FM now about the shooting.

Chiparus

screamer wrote: »

Shot by trained soldiers or shot in an abattoir it's all the same at least the army guys are well trained to take things out. Cattle are bred to die that's their fate that's why they're farmed right? So I don't understand the who ha at all with this story. cattle equal beef not pets.

Really Soldiers are trained how to kill cows?

Who knew?

rushvalley

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157243615005195&id=247386520194

Base price

A slightly better link. Upsetting that such practices take place now day's. I heard a segment on the radio today about peoples views of the shooting and one lady from the former country known as Rhodesia could not understand why the animals were not darted with a sedative drug. Good point in fairness considering they can dart "proper wild/dangerous animal" in the wild.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/07/07/monaghan-cows-had-two-weeks-to-go-to-retirement/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

Markcheese

Ok .. the farm was locked up...
The reciever couldnt control cattle because gates kept being broken open,
Everything they could round up was gone already...
At least 15 beasts had dissapeared / been knicked / gone elsewhere . Wether they were reactors or not is unknown..
And these last 5 roaming around are the ones that neither the recievers stockmen nor the russelers could get... but they keep getting out because of dodgy practice,
Starting to see why they were shot.. not nice but they couldnt be just let off , infecting other herds (if they had tb, which you prob couldn't tell if they're truely wild) or worse causing an accident on roads at night..

flutered

i have been around cattle for the bones of 70 years, having a yearly herd test, one time having to test cattle to take them to the mart, this is changed, getting cattle in to a yard and crush the first time is easy enough, the second time it is damm difficult, the third time in a short while nearly impossible, now add to the mix the fact that they are sucklers, sucklers are hard to manage at the best of times, to get them into a yard and crush for the third time in a relitavly short period, is like getting five numbers in the lotto, achiveable but not often, add another factor, the cattle were being herded by folks unknown to them this make it almost impossible to achive

Base price

I have to agree with Michael Healy Rae on this.
One wonders how experienced "the experienced cattle assistants" that were employed by Mr. Lehane to round up the cattle were. IMO that is the issue - inexperience with dealing with livestock.
I reckon most livestock farmers on this site would have got them into a yard if we had too.
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/video-its-an-outrageous-act-for-our-army-to-be-used-to-shoot-five-cattle/

flutered

Chiparus wrote: »

Really Soldiers are trained how to kill cows?

Who knew?

take a decco at the picks of the shot animals, were they killed with the first shot as they should be, or riddled

Kovu

flutered wrote: »

take a decco at the picks of the shot animals, were they killed with the first shot as they should be, or riddled

Sensationalist journalism at its finest.

flutered

Markcheese wrote: »

If the cattle were wild and couldnt be rounded up for testing or loading how does anyone know wether they have tb or not...
Still would you want lunatics cutting open gates and letting potentially tb carrying cattle loose near your own stock..

were they they ones which went down for tb?, or had the infected ones been rounded up

Base price

flutered wrote: »

i have been around cattle for the bones of 70 years, having a yearly herd test, one time having to test cattle to take them to the mart, this is changed, getting cattle in to a yard and crush the first time is easy enough, the second time it is damm difficult, the third time in a short while nearly impossible, now add to the mix the fact that they are sucklers, sucklers are hard to manage at the best of times, to get them into a yard and crush for the third time in a relitavly short period, is like getting five numbers in the lotto, achiveable but not often, add another factor, the cattle were being herded by folks unknown to them this make it almost impossible to achive

I do agree that cattle herded by people unknown to them will spoke. However I have been around cattle for slightly less years that you - 51.
Over those years I have bred sucklers both commercial and pbr's, reared calves to beef, bull beef and cull dairy cows.
The one thing that I do when bringing cattle into the yard for injecting/calving/dosing/testing is to give them a few nuts/rolled barley.
Simple practice and it's called a Stockman/woman.

flutered

twin_beacon wrote: »

Apparently the heard had cases of TB.

“As Official Assignee I have a duty to recover value from assets of bankruptcy estates and it is clearly not in my interests to kill cattle, nor would I do it, without firstly having exhausted every other possible avenue open to me to resolve the problem.”
So, the next option is to shoot them in the field? Christ, what sort of country do we live in.

are not cattle shot in that manner worthless, so he gained nothing by it only bad press

flutered

Base price wrote: »

I do agree that cattle herded by people unknown to them will spoke. However I have been around cattle for slightly less years that you - 51.
Over those years I have bred sucklers both commercial and pbr's, reared calves to beef, bull beef and cull dairy cows.
The one thing that I do when bringing cattle into the yard for injecting/calving/dosing/testing is to give them a few nuts/rolled barley.
Simple practice and it's called a Stockman/woman.

as they were cows perhaps one or two were bulling, that would have them really fired up

flutered

Kovu wrote: »

Sensationalist journalism at its finest.

what is usual about this case, apart from the fact it is unusual

Kovu

flutered wrote: »

what is usual about this case, apart from the fact it is unusual

Well show me the photos where these heifers are 'riddled' with bullets. Any of the photos I've seen have one, perhaps two entry wounds.

flutered

topmanamillion wrote: »

An awful lot of misinformation here.
The herd had tested positive for TB, the handlers were unable to move them.
Not surprising as they were unfamiliar with them and I doubt the owner was too cooperative.
I've also heard they'd been wandering the roads.
The whole thing was a mess and it's unfortunate they couldn't have been brought to a proper facility to do it in but the animals had to be culled. End of story.

was it the entire herd which tested positive or a number of animals in the herd, why were the infected animals released from the yard, if the agent done his work properly there would have been a lorry on site rather sharply rather than going to the bother of trying to round them up again

Capercaillie

Base price wrote: »

A slightly better link. Upsetting that such practices take place now day's. I heard a segment on the radio today about peoples views of the shooting and one lady from the former country known as Rhodesia could not understand why the animals were not darted with a sedative drug. Good point in fairness considering they can dart "proper wild/dangerous animal" in the wild.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/07/07/monaghan-cows-had-two-weeks-to-go-to-retirement/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

How many vets in the Country would be equipped with dart guns?

Markcheese

Base price wrote:

I do agree that cattle herded by people unknown to them will spoke. However I have been around cattle for slightly less years that you - 51. Over those years I have bred sucklers both commercial and pbr's, reared calves to beef, bull beef and cull dairy cows. The one thing that I do when bringing cattle into the yard for injecting/calving/dosing/testing is to give them a few nuts/rolled barley. Simple practice and it's called a Stockman/woman.

And I've seen very expierienced and capable stockmen walk into a field of 20 odd frequently moved and well checked and cared for cattle and the same three limousine lunatics put they're heads and tails up and run at the sheepwire bounds ditch ... if it wasnt for the other quiet ones they'd be still in that corner..

flutered

viztopia wrote: »

I understand that the owner of these cattle would be good friends with our gerry and emy lou. Has a particular preference for a certain colour of motor fuel and will go to great lenghts to share it with customers. Bought a local pub, knocked it and rebuilt it.

link please to his aquaintance with our gerry and mary lou, a few years back a pub out side waterford city just in south kilkenny was knocked and rebuilt, it is called the seanti

flutered

Kovu wrote: »

As I've just posted over on the AH thread, where were all these animal-loving keyboard warriors 8 years ago - http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cattle-cull-described-as-pure-slaughter-64267.html
Only reason this is getting so much press is because that rag of a site decided to run with it, most likely due to CAB being involved.

compared to any printed paper advailable each morning the irish examiner is anything but a rag, it stands higher than most, when looking for a newspaper to call a rag, the wrong one was picked this time

greysides

Capercaillie wrote: »

How many vets in the Country would be equipped with dart guns?

To the best of my knowledge........... none.

Kovu

flutered wrote: »

compared to any printed paper advailable each morning the irish examiner is anything but a rag, it stands higher than most, when looking for a newspaper to call a rag, the wrong one was picked this time

I was referring to 'The Hub' as a rag of a site (a website), not the Examiner.

Capercaillie

greysides wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge........... none.

was thinking that

Base price

Capercaillie wrote: »

How many vets in the Country would be equipped with dart guns?

No point involving private practitioners in this.
Now in fairness I am sure that the Dept could acquired dart guns if they were arsed too. Better result if the cattle were sedated rather than seeing their carcasses sprawled in fields to be viewed across the interweb - that is where we are now :mad:
Do Dublin Zoo or Fota Island Vets not have access to tranquilliser guns?

Genghis Cant

We've a lot of heifers on an out farm and short of shooting them I don't know how we're going to get them in. They broke to a neighbour a week ago when we tried and since then they can't be got near. Straight to the far corner and up and down the hedge.
I don't know what's goin to be done with them. They won't come to eat nuts either but I suppose we may persevere and see will they settle.
I heard the debate on the radio today about the incident in Monaghan and the bullsh1t comments being made by people with no clue about cattle. As far as I see it, cattle are getting progressively more difficult to deal with. At least ours are anyway.
Re tranquilising vs a bullet, I'd have no issue with a well placed bullet. The tranquiliser is only postponing the inevitable and adding more stress in the long run.

Capercaillie

Base price wrote: »

No point involving private practitioners in this.
Now in fairness I am sure that the Dept could acquired dart guns if they were arsed too. Better result if the cattle were sedated rather than seeing their carcasses sprawled in fields to be viewed across the interweb - that is where we are now :mad:
Do Dublin Zoo or Fota Island Vets not have access to tranquilliser guns?

A dart gun would just shoot into the muscle. That could take 10-15 minutes to take effect and longer if the cattle were ballistic. Given the cattle were on the road, they had to be shot.

tabby aspreme

The range of a tranquilizer gun with enough sedative for a cow would be 60 meters max , I reckon with spooked cattle you wouldn't get within 200 meters of them , if they were confined in a field they might eat sedative mixed with meal but it could take them a few days to quiten down first ,

Water John

Genghis your best option is later in the year as food quality goes down. Put out a bit of ration (not nuts) and leave each day. There curiosity will bring them.
They will settle gradually but will never loose that wild streak fully. When quiet enough, ship them off, only trouble.