Anyone else able to divine for water

Zillah

Esel wrote: »

According to Wikipedia, Uri Geller is a notable dowser....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

Speaking of science, our own CelticRambler isn't the first to look into this, obviously:

A 1990 double-blind study[36][37][38] was undertaken in Kassel, Germany, under the direction of the Gesellschaft zur Wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung von Parawissenschaften (Society for the Scientific Investigation of the Parasciences). James Randi offered a US$10,000 prize to any successful dowser. The three-day test of some 30 dowsers involved plastic pipes through which water flow could be controlled and directed. The pipes were buried 50 centimeters (19.7 in) under a level field, the position of each marked on the surface with a colored strip. The dowsers had to tell whether water was running through each pipe. All the dowsers signed a statement agreeing this was a fair test of their abilities and that they expected a 100 percent success rate. However, the results were no better than chance, thus no one was awarded the prize.

Sounds pretty thorough to me.

MAJJ

pedigree 6 wrote: »

It must be down to electro magnetism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

You take why does it work with metal rods/ wire. It must be to do with the conductivity of metal. The same could be said for hazel rods (in that the water in the hazel rod conducts charge/electricity).

You take when divining with wire. There must be a slight electrical/magnetic pull on the wire maybe making one negative charge and the other positive charge to make them pull in together. Then to make the two wires to repel one another the two of them must have the same charge positive or negative.

It might also explain how it can find electric cables. Not sure if the cables have to be live to find them but the metal in itself would give a magnetic draw anyway.

Then with finding water pipes. Water is a good conducter of charge/electricity.
But it might give off more charge when running hitting the sides of the pipe and building up more charge.

Then with some people able to do and others not. There is a difference in bodies in people.
My uncle can grab any electric fence and join it together again without turning it off and it has no effect on him. He just says he'd barely feel the current in the fence. He was out in nz and a farmer was showing him a great new fencer he had that was doing 700 acres. He grabbed the fence and jokingly said to the farmer are you sure it's on. Your man couldn't get over how he could hold it and have no effect on him. Then you have myself and my father even with the fence turned on low here if we touched it we'd fall over.:pac:

Anyhow was just thinking about it when I was tidying up a few paddocks this morning. Too much time on me hands.:)

My father in law was the same a great man to find water via divining and a messer with electric fences. Never bothered him and he'd shake your hand and you'd be lifted.

Chuchote

MAJJ wrote: »

My father in law was the same a great man to find water via divining and a messer with electric fences. Never bothered him and he'd shake your hand and you'd be lifted.

And tell me this — is dowsing normally a talent for the kind of people who get a zizz of an electric shock off cars in hot weather, and whose hair rises up with the static of the brush when they brush it?

Esel

^ We used to touch electric fences with a blade of grass to see if they were live.

Regarding the wire/welding rod theory - how does this explain the forked hazel branch technique?

Zillah

I really don't understand how I can post a link to a study where 30 dowsers were tested under agreed conditions for three days straight and it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they couldn't achieve anything better than pure guessing and you're still here talking about electromagnetism and hazel branches.

You make me despair, you really do.

paddysdream

ganmo wrote: »

just because something isn't understood or not fully explainable doesn't mean it's not true.

For example homeopathy for all its craziness did manage to come up with a cure for cancer.

Is this the definition of going from the ridiculous to the ludicrous?
Whatever about people thinking that water 100ft. under the ground will cause two bent welding rods to twitch believing that water(with a memory!) will cure cancer takes the biscuit.
About as much faith in these things as my neighbour looking for prayers to cure the orf in his lambs.

CelticRambler

Zillah wrote: »

Wait, so out of three initial attempts only one was successful? That doesn't seem like an unlikely outcome for random guessing for something as small as a half acre (that's what you said, wasn't it?).

... Finding the "huh" moment is step 1 of a very long process, but you've jumped right to the end. There are innumerable possible explanations - most of which rely on very well understood psychological phenomena.

But your preferred explanation is that my subconscious is being manipulated by persons unknown to me, even when I'm the only biped within 600km who knows that I've decided to walk across a field with two bits of wire in my hands. That's a killer argument.

I haven't "jumped right to the end" at all. What I said was that *I* can find pipes/wires/other conduits in the same way that my uncle could. My father and my son cannot. That (to date) has been tested with 100% repeatability regardless of the many and various third parties present, regardless of the location, and regardless of the psychological priming. I don't understand how it works, and as it isn't going to change the outcome of the French presidential elections next year, or have any other significant effect on the world, I'm not going to invest any great amount of time or energy in studying the phenomenon.

But the next time someone asks me if I can tell them where the old drain under their garden is, I'll pick up the rods and walk the lines again ...

Zillah

You still don't seem to understand that you being both the test subject and the scientist is worthless from a scientific point of view. You need to be tested under controlled conditions by a third party with no bias. Countless people believe with a passion that they can do what you think you can can do, and every time someone else has tested them they have failed completely. That wiki link earlier has plenty of examples of rigorous tests proving that these people are no better at finding water than random guessing would achieve.

CelticRambler wrote: »

But your preferred explanation is that my subconscious is being manipulated by persons unknown to me, even when I'm the only biped within 600km who knows that I've decided to walk across a field with two bits of wire in my hands. That's a killer argument.

You said there were four people present so I've no idea what you're even trying to say any more.

Chuchote

People are getting too cross about this for me, and I'm outie. If anyone posts a video of the egg trick, could someone send me a PM? I'd love to see it.

pedigree 6

Esel wrote: »

^ We used to touch electric fences with a blade of grass to see if they were live.

Regarding the wire/welding rod theory - how does this explain the forked hazel branch technique?

Have no idea with the hazel rods never seen anyone do them.
But if there are science people here this might explain the two wires thing and why they have to be parallel. But then I think with the right hand rule I think that would mean a charge would have to come from the person to the wires to make the wires pull together.
Ah it's only a bit of sport but if someone learns something in the meantime all the better.

CelticRambler

Zillah wrote: »

You said there were four people present so I've no idea what you're even trying to say any more.

There were four people present (myself included) the day my uncle asked me if I'd ever tried divining, about five years ago.

Is that clear enough?

Since then, I've done it completely alone (e.g. this afternoon) and surrounded by many and various interested and disinterested parties, looking for things that were known to be present and just looking to see what might happen.

However, you seem to care more about hammering home the idea that it absolutely cannot possibly work than constructively discussing the unexplained anomaly that it consistently works for me (and did for my uncle, who is now dead but perhaps still speaks to me through my subconscious :pac: ) so I think I'll follow Chuchote out the door.

pedigree 6

If this thread dies I want to put in that the maximum amount of magnetic force is gained when the wires are perpendicular to the magnetic field.
I've heard one person say it is the hall effect?
You have to remember the earth is a giant magnet and current passes through our bodies as well.
Look it only worked for me with running waterpipes and water conducts electricity and may cause a slight magnetic field and may up through the person standing over it.
Then I heard someone say it only works in the daytime but that might be because that's when we are facing the sun and charged particles from the sun can reach the earth on this side when the solar wind shield is at its thinnest when facing the sun.
So then you have velocity, force and magnetic field.
If someone in the future can put all the pieces together well and good.
If not won't loose sleep over it.

FarmerDougal

pedigree 6 wrote: »

If this thread dies I want to put in that the maximum amount of magnetic force is gained when the wires are perpendicular to the magnetic field.
I've heard one person say it is the hall effect?
You have to remember the earth is a giant magnet and current passes through our bodies as well.
Look it only worked for me with running waterpipes and water conducts electricity and may cause a slight magnetic field and may up through the person standing over it.
Then I heard someone say it only works in the daytime but that might be because that's when we are facing the sun and charged particles from the sun can reach the earth on this side when the solar wind shield is at its thinnest when facing the sun.
So then you have velocity, force and magnetic field.
If someone in the future can put all the pieces together well and good.
If not won't loose sleep over it.

I think that there's a good chance that your probably right. Let's all believe stuff that may be proved in the future. If not no harm done lads

Esel

pedigree 6 wrote: »

If this thread dies I want to put in that the maximum amount of magnetic force is gained when the wires are perpendicular to the magnetic field.
I've heard one person say it is the hall effect?
You have to remember the earth is a giant magnet and current passes through our bodies as well.
Look it only worked for me with running waterpipes and water conducts electricity and may cause a slight magnetic field and may up through the person standing over it.
Then I heard someone say it only works in the daytime but that might be because that's when we are facing the sun and charged particles from the sun can reach the earth on this side when the solar wind shield is at its thinnest when facing the sun.
So then you have velocity, force and magnetic field.
If someone in the future can put all the pieces together well and good.
If not won't loose sleep over it.

What s/he said.

"How come my dog don't bark when you come around?"

_Brian

I'm sure many of you will have held strong magnets in your hand, car speakers or even stronger.
They will act on a metal object relatively close to itself, but have no effect being 4-6 inches.
Can you imagine how strong the magnetic force in something would need to be to move these metal rods from 6ft through earth and concrete. And people are believing that somehow a small pile with flowing water somehow does this ?
If that was tha case can you imagine the power from water in a river with 1000 times the flowing water ??
And really, how is it supposed to move a hazel rod ? Someone mentioned because the hazel rod probably has water in it, well we have far more water in us ~90% water so why don't magnets stick to us or why aren't we effected by large bodies of flowing water like a river or the ocean since aparrently this effect is from flowing water.
if flowing water could emit this sort of magnetic power it would be a measured and known effect.

Sam Kade

_Brian wrote: »

I'm sure many of you will have held strong magnets in your hand, car speakers or even stronger.
They will act on a metal object relatively close to itself, but have no effect being 4-6 inches.
Can you imagine how strong the magnetic force in something would need to be to move these metal rods from 6ft through earth and concrete. And people are believing that somehow a small pile with flowing water somehow does this ?
If that was tha case can you imagine the power from water in a river with 1000 times the flowing water ??
And really, how is it supposed to move a hazel rod ? Someone mentioned because the hazel rod probably has water in it, well we have far more water in us ~90% water so why don't magnets stick to us or why aren't we effected by large bodies of flowing water like a river or the ocean since aparrently this effect is from flowing water.
if flowing water could emit this sort of magnetic power it would be a measured and known effect.

It's the subconscious mind that does it, nothing to do with magnetic force.

runawaybishop

CelticRambler wrote: »

There were four people present (myself included) the day my uncle asked me if I'd ever tried divining, about five years ago.

Is that clear enough?

Since then, I've done it completely alone (e.g. this afternoon) and surrounded by many and various interested and disinterested parties, looking for things that were known to be present and just looking to see what might happen.

However, you seem to care more about hammering home the idea that it absolutely cannot possibly work than constructively discussing the unexplained anomaly that it consistently works for me (and did for my uncle, who is now dead but perhaps still speaks to me through my subconscious :pac: ) so I think I'll follow Chuchote out the door.

100% success for you, amazing! Well done on earning that million quid so.

pedigree 6

_Brian wrote: »

I'm sure many of you will have held strong magnets in your hand, car speakers or even stronger.
They will act on a metal object relatively close to itself, but have no effect being 4-6 inches.
Can you imagine how strong the magnetic force in something would need to be to move these metal rods from 6ft through earth and concrete. And people are believing that somehow a small pile with flowing water somehow does this ?
If that was tha case can you imagine the power from water in a river with 1000 times the flowing water ??
And really, how is it supposed to move a hazel rod ? Someone mentioned because the hazel rod probably has water in it, well we have far more water in us ~90% water so why don't magnets stick to us or why aren't we effected by large bodies of flowing water like a river or the ocean since aparrently this effect is from flowing water.
if flowing water could emit this sort of magnetic power it would be a measured and known effect.

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's the subconscious mind that does it, nothing to do with magnetic force.

Ah sam I think that's nonsence stuff about the subconscious mind.
You were saying about someone found a mobile phone with it. I presume the phone was switched on when they found it. As far as reading other posts I think it has everything to do with magnetic force. The only objects that are found are metallic or water. This magnetic force of metallic objects is well known the research stations measuring the earths magnetic field being a good example in that they have to be far away from a city and the building itself cannot use any metal as the instruments would pick them up instead.
Brian is right we are 90% water and that makes us good conductors but maybe we produce a charge in our own right. The electric eel being an example of an animal doing so.
As for running water maybe it does produce it's own magnetic force hitting off the sides of the pipe or it's own atoms but you would have to measure it in gauss or maybe lower if there is such a thing.
It might also explain why compasses don't work as well at sea as on land.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss_(unit)

Water John

There are some phenonema we still don't understand. A lot of spoofers but a % are genuine.
The naysayers looking for scientific proof would have given Einstein a very hard time and agreed with imprisoning Galileo.

pedigree 6

Water John wrote: »

There are some phenonema we still don't understand. A lot of spoofers but a % are genuine.
The naysayers looking for scientific proof would have given Einstein a very hard time and agreed with imprisoning Galileo.

Look I try to understand as much as I can and all I wanted to know is why two wires which I hold very loosely pointing forward and when I cross over the water pipe and electric cable underground going to the pumphouse the wires come together.
That's all. I read on tff that some people put them in plastic biros and it works and I will try that next and see. You have to question everything and learn from it.

gctest50

Pigeons, wolves, turtles, sharks and many more can pick up the weak magnetic fields

it seems to be worn down to next to nothing in us , all it does is affect your visual threshold

The human visual threshold depends on direction and strength of a weak magnetic field.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12942272

bit of craic anyway

Sam Kade

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Look I try to understand as much as I can and all I wanted to know is why two wires which I hold very loosely pointing forward and when I cross over the water pipe and electric cable underground going to the pumphouse the wires come together.
That's all. I read on tff that some people put them in plastic biros and it works and I will try that next and see. You have to question everything and learn from it.

just try walking ahead and ask the wires to cross then point strIght ahead and see what happens. I did and the wires crossed which is why I think it has more to do with the mind than magnetic fields.

onrail

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Look I try to understand as much as I can and all I wanted to know is why two wires which I hold very loosely pointing forward and when I cross over the water pipe and electric cable underground going to the pumphouse the wires come together.
That's all. I read on tff that some people put them in plastic biros and it works and I will try that next and see. You have to question everything and learn from it.

My understanding is that in this case:
1. The wires are very finely balanced.. Even the most miniscule movement would set them to move.
2. You walk over a pipe which you know is there.
3. Subconsciously you expect the wires to move.. This causes very slight twitches which consciously you aren't aware of.
4. These miniscule twitches cause the finely balanced writes to move

So to you the wires are moving of their own accord.. In reality they're not.

Sam Kade

onrail wrote: »

My understanding is that in this case:
1. The wires are very finely balanced.. Even the most miniscule movement would set them to move.
2. You walk over a pipe which you know is there.
3. Subconsciously you expect the wires to move.. This causes very slight twitches which consciously you aren't aware of.
4. These miniscule twitches cause the finely balanced writes to move

So to you the wires are moving of their own accord.. In reality they're not.

So how do you explain finding a hidden object that you don't know where it is? The rods will point you in the direction of the object and cross when you come to it.

onrail

Sam Kade wrote: »

onrail wrote: »

My understanding is that in this case:
1. The wires are very finely balanced.. Even the most miniscule movement would set them to move.
2. You walk over a pipe which you know is there.
3. Subconsciously you expect the wires to move.. This causes very slight twitches which consciously you aren't aware of.
4. These miniscule twitches cause the finely balanced writes to move

So to you the wires are moving of their own accord.. In reality they're not.

So how do you explain finding a hidden object that you don't know where it is? The rods will point you in the direction of the object and cross when you come to it.

Has there been any one of the first timers on here who can do this with 100% accuracy in a blind test? All the linked controlled experiments have shown they can't!

runawaybishop

Sam Kade wrote: »

So how do you explain finding a hidden object that you don't know where it is? The rods will point you in the direction of the object and cross when you come to it.

No one explains it because it simply doesn't happen. Show a single bit of proper proof and I am all ears.

_Brian

Water John wrote: »

There are some phenonema we still don't understand. A lot of spoofers but a % are genuine.
The naysayers looking for scientific proof would have given Einstein a very hard time and agreed with imprisoning Galileo.

Rubbish point about Einstein etc as these were proper scientists and proved their theories with hard science facts. Putting them in a sentence with dividers and lads with hazel sticks wandering round a field is just insulting to science in general.

Water John

Brian, Einstein was basically a civil servant in the patent office. He proposed a theory in two books.

_Brian

Water John wrote: »

Brian, Einstein was basically a civil servant in the patent office. He proposed a theory in two books.

Are we saying now that Einstein wasn't one of the greatest scientists that the world has seen ??
Yes he dropped out of college and worked in the patent offices, but that doesn't detract from his brilliance. Somehow equating him with dividers is an embarrassing comparison to make.

Water John

Brian, absolutely Einstein, one of the greatest minds of all time. It is you who is setting the burden of proof required.
I'm just applying that burden to Einstein. I'm neither saying I believe or disbelieve the dowsing phenonomen.
I always keep an open but relatively sceptical mind.

_Brian

Water John wrote: »

Brian, absolutely Einstein, one of the greatest minds of all time. It is you who is setting the burden of proof required.
I'm just applying that burden to Einstein. I'm neither saying I believe or disbelieve the dowsing phenonomen.
I always keep an open but relatively sceptical mind.

The thing is Einsteins theories have stood up to scrutiny, they were based on sound theories that were mathematically correct at the time, further scientific process has reenforced them.
Divining is based on nothing but faith and chance. I've nowhere seen anything that would come close to a sound theory on how it might work. I've seen nothing from any sort of scientific review online other than its based on luck and chance. Until I see something to the contrary I'll keep divining and dowsing filed away with the immaculate conception.

Sam Kade

_Brian wrote: »

The thing is Einsteins theories have stood up to scrutiny, they were based on sound theories that were mathematically correct at the time, further scientific process has reenforced them.
Divining is based on nothing but faith and chance. I've nowhere seen anything that would come close to a sound theory on how it might work. I've seen nothing from any sort of scientific review online other than its based on luck and chance. Until I see something to the contrary I'll keep divining and dowsing filed away with the immaculate conception.

Did you ever try it?

Sam Kade

runawaybishop wrote: »

No one explains it because it simply doesn't happen. Show a single bit of proper proof and I am all ears.

Try it for yourself, it isn't rocket science to try it then get back to us with the results.

MickeyShtyles

_Brian wrote: »

The thing is Einsteins theories have stood up to scrutiny, they were based on sound theories that were mathematically correct at the time, further scientific process has reenforced them.
Divining is based on nothing but faith and chance. I've nowhere seen anything that would come close to a sound theory on how it might work. I've seen nothing from any sort of scientific review online other than its based on luck and chance. Until I see something to the contrary I'll keep divining and dowsing filed away with the immaculate conception.

I'll stick up a video for ya 2mora, Brian.

MickeyShtyles

Here yee go.!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X98VYVSCyPE&feature=share

_Brian

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

Here yee go.!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X98VYVSCyPE&feature=share

Quite something, never seen or heard of it done with eggs before. Bit of fun and breakfast, better than hazel rods any day

pedigree 6

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

Here yee go.!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X98VYVSCyPE&feature=share

Just if people want to try that out.
Am I right in saying that you are using freshly laid fertilised eggs?

MickeyShtyles

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Just if people want to try that out.
Am I right in saying that you are using freshly laid fertilised eggs?

Gotta 1/2 doz of eggs in lidl.....

pedigree 6

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

Gotta 1/2 doz of eggs in lidl.....

:D

Esel

The stuff those free-range hens pop out of their cloacae! They were free-range, weren't they?

tabby aspreme

_Brian wrote: »

The thing is Einsteins theories have stood up to scrutiny, they were based on sound theories that were mathematically correct at the time, further scientific process has reenforced them.
Divining is based on nothing but faith and chance. I've nowhere seen anything that would come close to a sound theory on how it might work. I've seen nothing from any sort of scientific review online other than its based on luck and chance. Until I see something to the contrary I'll keep divining and dowsing filed away with the immaculate conception.

Best not mention anything about geopathic stress testing so.

mikeymouse

Best not mention anything about geopathic stress testing so.

so that's what it's called.
My father used to say the old people watched the animals ; cattle, horses ,sheep etc,and liked to build on land these animals favoured for resting.
I took it with a pinch of salt at the time , but maybe there was something in it.

runawaybishop

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Best not mention anything about geopathic stress testing so.

Ley lines? Yeah, best say nothing about that nonsense either.

_Whimsical_

I remember seeing this done with a pendulum on a hand drawing of a layout of an area. It was years ago. I was just along for the ride so to speak but a friends parents were having some sort of problem inside the house because of an underground steam. No idea what exactly needed doing but it required heavy construction in the end. Anyway they needed to pinpoint the exact place to dig for the problem and the construction person couldn't find it so recommended a man in Carlow, apparently the best diviner in the country. So day trip off to Carlow to see him.
It was really interesting to watch him work. First he got them to draw a rough outline of the room layout of the house and used his pendulum over that and isolated the room and the line at fault. Then he went over that general area on bigger more exact house plans with the pendumulm and drew out the route of the stream and he did isolate the exact perfect spot for the main part of the work to be done as it turned out.

He seemed to be maybe a farmer, he didn't ask any questions really or care about the exact structural problem, whatever he came up was a result of pure instinct it seemed. I was a kid but was amazed at exactly how accurate it turned out to be
It felt like there was definitely something in it.

_Brian

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I remember seeing this done with a pendulum on a hand drawing of a layout of an area. It was years ago. I was just along for the ride so to speak but a friends parents were having some sort of problem inside the house because of an underground steam. No idea what exactly needed doing but it required heavy construction in the end. Anyway they needed to pinpoint the exact place to dig for the problem and the construction person couldn't find it so recommended a man in Carlow, apparently the best diviner in the country. So day trip off to Carlow to see him.
It was really interesting to watch him work. First he got them to draw a rough outline of the room layout of the house and used his pendulum over that and isolated the room and the line at fault. Then he went over that general area on bigger more exact house plans with the pendumulm and drew out the route of the stream and he did isolate the exact perfect spot for the main part of the work to be done as it turned out.

He seemed to be maybe a farmer, he didn't ask any questions really or care about the exact structural problem, whatever he came up was a result of pure instinct it seemed. I was a kid but was amazed at exactly how accurate it turned out to be
It felt like there was definitely something in it.

This is the best fella yet..
He doesn't even need to come to the site, just a rough sketch and away he goes swinging his plumb.. bingo !!

Midfield9

https://youtu.be/1Wprr9TYUwo

I don't really know which side of the fence I'm on. Interesting at the same time. I'll probably get it done sometime

tomwaterford

_Brian wrote: »

This is the best fella yet..
He doesn't even need to come to the site, just a rough sketch and away he goes swinging his plumb.. bingo !!

I've seen this method used to find a variety of things off a map (pics etc used)

There would be a lot of dead ground as its called around here and used to find missing/injured/missing animals etc



Done to such a scale that could actually be scientifically tested/trialled



Would love to see it done

flutered

how were the wells found back in the day, when they had only shovels to dig with, yet most springs were found under a dept of 30 feet

flutered

eoinfitzokk wrote: »

Springs are where groundwater discharges at the surface. Use your eyes to find springs.

known hereabouts as rouge springs, they work best during wet weather

flutered

eoinfitzokk wrote: »

Precisely. Numerous people use diving to find water flowing in pipes, most of which will be less than 2m depth. Divining for groundwater in bedrock is unrelated.

Sure unless you go drilling in places were the wires didn't cross then you don't know that it works? And who has a spare couple of grand to do this. Why you would place infrastructure and spend money based on two wires crossing.

In most cases you will find water but not in appreciable quantities. Leave the rods at home and spend 5 minutes on the Geological Survey of Ireland Website looking for signs of damp ground, look at the geology and look for shallow rock, faults, and read the Groundwater Body description of the local area. All very informative and factual information to help you place a borehole.

Ask the local well drillers, if they don't know the local geology then find a local driller that does.

which were not advailable for most of the time frame of mankind