Landlord wont hand over a written notice

regi3457

Micky8728 wrote: »

My landlord said we had to be out of his accommodation in one months time because he might renovate or sell the house. I asked to get written notice on paper of this but refused. We moved out anyway. I asked him again for this when handing over the keys but still he refused. I kept his last months rent until he does. He rang my girlfriend earlier saying we owr him rent for months and months even thou our rent book is upto date apart from last months. He told he she was no going to get anyeherr in life and slammed the door in our face esrlier when I tried to talk to him. What should we do next?

Some LL are bitter people. A lot of people who own property in Ireland are squeezed to their limit to make payments. Debt makes people bitter. Sometimes you get a nice LL sometimes you don't. You have to choose wisely next time and try choose to live in a decent persons property.

davo10

regi3457 wrote: »

Some LL are bitter people. A lot of people who own property in Ireland are squeezed to their limit to make payments. Debt makes people bitter. Sometimes you get a nice LL sometimes you don't. You have to choose wisely next time and try choose to live in a decent persons property.

Tenants who withhold rent make LLs bitter.

regi3457

davo10 wrote: »

Tenants who withhold rent make LLs bitter.

There could be a number of reasons why rent is withheld. There are two sides to each story and both parties must respect each other and the contract. If rent was withheld perhaps there was good cause for it. I say "perhaps".

athtrasna

regi3457 wrote: »

There could be a number of reasons why rent is withheld. There are two sides to each story and both parties must respect each other and the contract. If rent was withheld perhaps there was good cause for it. I say "perhaps".

Regardless of reason, withholding rent is illegal.

regi3457

athtrasna wrote: »

Regardless of reason, withholding rent is illegal.

Ok so let me propose a situation. Let's say that the apartment is falling apart. The Landlord does not want to attend to the mess. Rent is due. What should the tenant do? Pay rent anyway?
I think illegal is when there is a breach of contract but in this case LL breached contract and no court of law would find tenant guilty

Boater123

regi3457 wrote: »

Ok so let me propose a situation. Let's say that the apartment is falling apart. The Landlord does not want to attend to the mess. Rent is due. What should the tenant do? Pay rent anyway?

Short answer yes, if they want to follow the law.

Or as athtrasna already said, Regardless of reason, withholding rent is illegal.

Giving someone advice to withhold rent leaves them open to eviction for rent arrears. The tenant is supposed to take the prescribed by law steps to get the repairs done.

regi3457

Boater123 wrote: »

Short answer yes, if they want to follow the law.

Or as athtrasna already said, Regardless of reason, withholding rent is illegal.

Giving someone advice to withhold rent leaves them open to eviction for rent arrears. The tenant is supposed to take the prescribed by law steps to get the repairs done.

Ok I see. But if a contract states that the property must be kept in good condition then the LL breached the contract first.

Can you please show me the Irish law where it is stated that not paying the rent in this instance is deemed illegal? I am really interested to read it.

thanks for your reply

Boater123

regi3457 wrote: »

Ok I see. But if a contract states that the property must be kept in good condition then the LL breached the contract first.

Can you please show me the Irish law where it is stated that not paying the rent in this instance is deemed illegal? I am really interested to read it.

thanks for your reply

Read/ Google the Residential tenancy acts.

<Mods sorry for the thread drift>

regi3457

Boater123 wrote: »

Read/ Google the Residential tenancy acts.

<Mods sorry for the thread drift>

I did google it. It said that it was not recommended but couldn't find anything that states that it is illegal. Remember, it is not the same as not paying your rent before and after one party breaches the contract. If you have a link you could point me to, I may stand to be corrected

thanks!

pablo128

davo10 wrote: »

Tenants who withhold rent make LLs bitter.

athtrasna wrote: »

Regardless of reason, withholding rent is illegal.

If you were owed a months rent, and all you had to do to get it was to write a letter and hand it to someone, what would you do?

foggy_lad

The Landlord refused point plank to issue proper legal notice of eviction. in my opinion that should be a criminal offence and they should be arrested, charged and have their finances forensically audited.

sammy2016

Both landlord and tenant are wrong in this case, a landlord should issue notice to quit in writing confirming the date it starts and ends and under no right has a tenant a right to with hold rent,my washing machine is broken the past 2months ive been on to my landlord on 3seperate occastions now so next week she will politely get another text and followed by an email and if nothing done id advised by the PRTB to fix the issue myself hold onto recept and just deduet the repairs from the rent

foggy_lad

athtrasna wrote: »

Regardless of reason, withholding rent is illegal.

Yes it is illegal and should not be done except in the most serious of situations.(Where a landlord has over a prolonged period failed to do essential repairs or replace fixtures or fittings or furniture etc the tenant can theoretically get repairs done and deduct the amount from any rent owed.)

Refusing to issue written notice of eviction is also illegal as is refusing to issue a proper notice of arrears before issuing a notice of eviction.

armabelle

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes it is illegal and should not be done except in the most serious of situations.(Where a landlord has over a prolonged period failed to do essential repairs or replace fixtures or fittings or furniture etc the tenant can theoretically get repairs done and deduct the amount from any rent owed.)

Refusing to issue written notice of eviction is also illegal as is refusing to issue a proper notice of arrears before issuing a notice of eviction.

I am new to Ireland but my two cents is that "illegal" is a strong word here. I think that rent should always be paid but if there is a contract and the landlord breaches it first, the judge would never allow the eviction. Any intelligent LL knows this which is why it is in everyones best interest to play by the rules.

High rents in Ireland are going to see more and more issues like these because people are being squeezed beyond their decency

Michael D Not Higgins

regi3457 wrote: »

I did google it. It said that it was not recommended but couldn't find anything that states that it is illegal. Remember, it is not the same as not paying your rent before and after one party breaches the contract. If you have a link you could point me to, I may stand to be corrected

thanks!

It is illegal as it is a tenant obligation under section 16 (a) (i) of the RTA 2004. Whether there's a breach of the landlord's obligations is of no consequence, as it is taking the law into your own hand to withhold rent in order to force the landlord to uphold their side of the lease. The correct forum for an issue under the law is the RTB.

As it stands, it appears there have been a number of problems from both sides and the best thing would be to sort it out without the RTB. It appears the OP was willing to leave without issue if they had a written reason to produce to welfare for their rent allowance and agreeing to shorter notice and/or for reasons not in the RTA means there was no illegal eviction.

Withholding rent in this instance can't be backed by the law. However the landlord would have to chase them in the RTB for it and considering they're a welfare tenant and it's one month's rent, it's unlikely to be worth the time or effort.

armabelle

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

It is illegal as it is a tenant obligation under section 16 (a) (i) of the RTA 2004. Whether there's a breach of the landlord's obligations is of no consequence, as it is taking the law into your own hand to withhold rent in order to force the landlord to uphold their side of the lease. The correct forum for an issue under the law is the RTB.

As it stands, it appears there have been a number of problems from both sides and the best thing would be to sort it out without the RTB. It appears the OP was willing to leave without issue if they had a written reason to produce to welfare for their rent allowance and agreeing to shorter notice and/or for reasons not in the RTA means there was no illegal eviction.

Withholding rent in this instance can't be backed by the law. However the landlord would have to chase them in the RTB for it and considering they're a welfare tenant and it's one month's rent, it's unlikely to be worth the time or effort.

I read the act for my own interest and it does say that the rent must be paid but couldn't see that it says that rent should still be paid if LL is in breach of contract. did I miss that part?

here is the cut

(a) pay to the landlord or his or her authorised agent (or any other person where required to do so by any enactment)—


(i) the rent provided for under the tenancy concerned on the date it falls due for payment, and

(ii) where the lease or tenancy agreement provides that any charges or taxes are payable by the tenant, pay those charges or taxes in accordance with the lease or tenancy agreement (unless provision to that effect in the lease or tenancy agreement is unlawful or contravenes any other enactment),

amcalester

armabelle wrote: »

I read the act for my own interest and it does say that the rent must be paid but couldn't see that it says that rent should still be paid if LL is in breach of contract. did I miss that part?

here is the cut

(a) pay to the landlord or his or her authorised agent (or any other person where required to do so by any enactment)—


(i) the rent provided for under the tenancy concerned on the date it falls due for payment, and

(ii) where the lease or tenancy agreement provides that any charges or taxes are payable by the tenant, pay those charges or taxes in accordance with the lease or tenancy agreement (unless provision to that effect in the lease or tenancy agreement is unlawful or contravenes any other enactment),

Any circumstances in which the renter can stop paying rent would need to be set out in the act, if you can't find any such circumstances then rent must always be paid.

TheChizler

armabelle wrote: »

I read the act for my own interest and it does say that the rent must be paid but couldn't see that it says that rent should still be paid if LL is in breach of contract. did I miss that part?

It doesn't mention specifically that rent should still be paid if the tenant doesn't feel like it either but clearly that's not the case. If a law is made any exceptions must be stated by law, otherwise they're not exceptions.

regi3457

amcalester wrote: »

Any circumstances in which the renter can stop paying rent would need to be set out in the act, if you can't find any such circumstances then rent must always be paid.

I still insist that it is not illegal. Not paying rent is like not paying debt, a civil matter not a direct offence so saying it is illegal is not correct IMO. A number of problems could be the result of tenant not paying rent and neither will imply that the tenant has broken the law. I don't ever recommend anyone to not pay their rent just don't think "illegal" is correct term.

TheChizler

regi3457 wrote: »

I still insist that it is not illegal. Not paying rent is like not paying debt, a civil matter not a direct offence so saying it is illegal is not correct IMO.

Debts don't normally have specific acts of law written about them though. And there are plenty of civil matters that are illegal. Just because it's not a criminal matter doesn't mean it's not illegal.

athtrasna

regi3457 wrote: »

I still insist that it is not illegal. Not paying rent is like not paying debt, a civil matter not a direct offence so saying it is illegal is not correct IMO. A number of problems could be the result of tenant not paying rent and neither will imply that the tenant has broken the law. I don't ever recommend anyone to not pay their rent just don't think "illegal" is correct term.

Are you a solicitor?

regi3457

TheChizler wrote: »

Debts don't normally have specific acts of law written about them though. And there are plenty of civil matters that are illegal. Just because it's not a criminal matter doesn't mean it's not illegal.

When I take a loan I fill out a contract and sign it. How is that different?

regi3457

athtrasna wrote: »

Are you a solicitor?

No, i doubt any of the people here are else they would have said. I think I am entitled to my opinion and gave it. Hope that is still OK

armabelle

Lets consider this. If you don't pay your rent for whatever reason, maybe you can't or maybe the LL has shafted you what will happen? Will you get thrown in jail? Probably not.

The reason I think regi3457 says it is not illegal is because many times people can't make rent for whatever reason and it would be inefficient and inhumane to throw someone in jail for that. So it is kind of illegal but not the same as a true crime

armabelle

TheChizler wrote: »

Debts don't normally have specific acts of law written about them though. And there are plenty of civil matters that are illegal. Just because it's not a criminal matter doesn't mean it's not illegal.

Yes you are probably right. But what happens if someone can't make rent because of financial difficulty? Is that also illegal?

athtrasna

regi3457 wrote: »

No, i doubt any of the people here are else they would have said. I think I am entitled to my opinion and gave it. Hope that is still OK

There are many solicitors on here! The RTA is a law.

regi3457

athtrasna wrote: »

There are many solicitors on here! The RTA is a law.

Absolutely. I am not disputing that fact. What I am saying is that a crime that someone is prosecuted for is not the same as not paying rent. Maybe they are still "illegal" as you say but I just think that is a strong word. That is my opinion and don't condone or recommend anything by saying it.

TheChizler

regi3457 wrote: »

Absolutely. I am not disputing that fact. What I am saying is that a crime that someone is prosecuted for is not the same as not paying rent. Maybe they are still "illegal" as you say but I just think that is a strong word. That is my opinion and don't condone or recommend anything by saying it.

It might be a strong word but it's the correct word.

Mrs OBumble

armabelle wrote: »

I am new to Ireland but my two cents is that "illegal" is a strong word here.

Illegal is simply a polite word for stealing.

Not paying your rent is stealing use of the landlord's property.

Legal or otherwise, it's immoral.

armabelle

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Illegal is simply a polite word for stealing.

Not paying your rent is stealing use of the landlord's property.

Legal or otherwise, it's immoral.

I totally disagree with this. It is immoral depending on what the situation is. Immoral is subjective.