FF are 'back'

Jawgap

Quite remarkable the 'bouncebackability' FF have shown.....

We’re back! Poll shows Fianna Fáil are the most popular party

And so, back to the future. Today’s Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI opinion poll, the first since before the February general election, has one startlingly obvious headline: Fianna Fáil is back. Support for the party among likely voters jumps by a whopping nine points from the election to 33 per cent (excluding undecideds), putting the party far ahead of its rivals and restoring its old superiority over Fine Gael.

The party’s core vote – including the 16 per cent who are undecided – is at 27 per cent.

This is Fianna Fáil’s highest rating in this series of polls since the first half of 2008 – just as the financial crisis was beginning to unfold. The economic crash and the period of brutal austerity which followed remade the landscape of Irish politics. But even as the country emerges from that period, and strong economic growth returns, political change is continuing. No doubt there will be more to come.

....a party that hammered the country into the ground through the worst form of incompetence and cronyism is now polling at levels that suggest it may, potentially, be in the driving seat to form the next government!!

I don't know if that says more about them or us as an electorate, but it seems to have become 'acceptable' to support FF again and probably only a matter of time before it becomes 'fashionable'!

My own view is that the level of support enjoyed by the independents was never likely to be sustainable in the long run - people are 'happy' to try out alternatives or register protest votes in times of crisis or loss, but as soon as they have something to lose (jobs, income etc) they gravitate back towards more conventional, less radical options.

Also, the deal to allow FG to form the government with the independents support is looking more and more like a stroke of political genius - given the ongoing rumbling over the collective and collegiate responsibility of the cabinet (something imo that will roll on for some time), I can't see this government making it past its second budget and it seems all FF have to do is sit there, wait for the inevitable collapse and trot in on their white horse to pick up the pieces.......then their journey from villains to saviours will be complete!!!

It inspires despair and wonder in equal measures!

Heartbreaking

SEPT 23 1989

Memories of goldfish

People deserve everything they get

gifted

Are they any different to any other political party????....

nhunter100

FG had an opportunity to be the main party of government for the foreseeable future, unfortunately their arrogance and contempt for the electorate got in the way.

Fr Tod Umptious

nhunter100 wrote: »

FG had an opportunity to be the main party of government for the foreseeable future, unfortunately their arrogance and contempt for the electorate got in the way.

No they didn't.

They balanced the books and that took some pain, and people don't like pain so they rejected them for it.

FF on the other hand sat back and promised lollipops and rainbows so the people preferred that.

ThunbergsAreGo

Makes me laugh/cry, you just cannot trust people

We all asked ourselves "how could the UK vote to leave the EU" and then we go and do this

FrancieBrady

It was never going to be any different and it was naive to think it would be.
When FF didn't collapse, that was the sign right there that they could regrow.
The only suprise for me is how quickly they have recovered but with FG making such a mess it is no real wonder tbh.
I am not sure about the Independents thing either, I wouldn't expect them to figure as a force until we were in election mode.

nhunter100

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

They balanced the books and that took some pain, and people don't like pain so they rejected them for it.

So the behaviour of FG/Lab had no hand or part in their rejection by the electorate. You ever hear of a guy called Phil Hogan?

Fr Tod Umptious

nhunter100 wrote: »

So the behaviour of FG/Lab had no hand or part in their rejection by the electorate. You ever hear of a guy called Phil Hogan?

They dug the country out of a hole and were rejected for it, that's what I'm saying.

FrancieBrady

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They dug the country out of a hole and were rejected for it, that's what I'm saying.

The point is the way they 'dug us out of the hole'. Quite simply the belief is out there that there was another way. And as oppositions will do, FF have simply said they would have done it another way.

It is no different to how it has always been with the cyclical sharing of power between FF and FG.

nhunter100

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

They dug the country out of a hole and were rejected for it, that's what I'm saying.

They attacked the most vulnerable in our society to do it, medical cards taken off sick children one example. You think they were ever going to be rewarded for that carry on?

Cortina_MK_IV

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They dug the country out of a hole and were rejected for it, that's what I'm saying.

I love the terminology used at times. "They dug," like they laboured hard and saved us, dear Enda put on his cape and tights and rescued us. Mouse clicks and pen strokes that make "us" (tax payers) pay for the mess made by the previous fools that ran this country doesn't take much "digging."

realdanbreen

gifted wrote: »

Are they any different to any other political party????....

Sure they are. They have in the main governed this country since its foundation, kept us out of wars, made us one of the wealthiest nations in the world, a democracy where free speech and civil liberties are guarateed. I'm just surprised that they are not higher in the polls.

Red Kev

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They dug the country out of a hole and were rejected for it, that's what I'm saying.

They had a golden opportunity, but instead of being "new politics" we got the same old cronyism, nepotism, jobs for the boys, lies and double standards.

Sad to say it but by doing that they simply left the door open for FF to return.

If they had tried to be different and be more open and honest then FF would be slowly dying, but as we can see they have a new lease of life.

mitresize5

I despair at this also however I think FG and Labour were really the masters of their own demise.

They were doing a good job but the whole Irish Water fiasco poisoned them in the eyes of many.

I generally am a conformist, I've paid my bills and taxes and gone without a lot during the years 2008 - 2013/4.

However I was never going to pay the water charges, never, not once, it was a step too far after everything else that had been lumped on in the previous years. To this day I still dont even open the letters when they come, they go straight in the bin. The strange thing is I was in a better position financially to pay for water than all of the previous but enough was enough.

Im sure if FF were in the position of FG/Lab and got a whiff of how divisive the whole thing was becoming they'd have pulled the plug, taking the ridicule of the opposition for a few weeks but not pissed off the electorate and survived relatively in tact.

This would have also saved us ever having to hear of that gob****e Paul Murphy ...

But ce la vie, here were are again ... rinse and repeat Ireland and in a few years wonder how the whole thing has gone tits up again.

Dyr

It's a poll just after an election...time will tell.

Also, this:

https://amp.twimg.com/v/0e35fdc6-7d56-460c-91a0-a0db72cf765a

Jawgap

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They dug the country out of a hole and were rejected for it, that's what I'm saying.

Well, they might have filled in one or two holes in the public finances, but then they dug a really big hole (for a water meter) and jumped right in and sploshed about!!

I think on balance the FG/LAB government did a job that needed doing but their communication of their achievements, especially during the election, left a lot to be desired.

Jawgap

mitresize5 wrote: »

......

I generally am a conformist, I've paid my bills and taxes and gone without a lot during the years 2008 - 2013/4.

However I was never going to pay the water charges, never, not once, it was a step too far after everything else that had been lumped on in the previous years. .....

Just by way of observation - it seems remarkable that the party that gifted us the USC is riding high in the polls while the one that is holding us to our EU obligations (and making a bad job of it) is flailing about in what could be the beginning of a death spiral.

Fr Tod Umptious

Jawgap wrote: »

Just by way of observation - it seems remarkable that the party that gifted us the USC is riding high in the polls while the one that is holding us to our EU obligations (and making a bad job of it) is flailing about in what could be the beginning of a death spiral.

And that's why as you said yourself it inspires despair and wonder in equal measure.

realdanbreen

Jawgap wrote: »

Just by way of observation - it seems remarkable that the party that gifted us the USC is riding high in the polls while the one that is holding us to our EU obligations (and making a bad job of it) is flailing about in what could be the beginning of a death spiral.

So which party would you like to see governing this country?

mitresize5

Jawgap wrote: »

Just by way of observation - it seems remarkable that the party that gifted us the USC is riding high in the polls while the one that is holding us to our EU obligations (and making a bad job of it) is flailing about in what could be the beginning of a death spiral.

I agree - I actually cant get my head around it. I've come to the decision that FF are some kind of cult

However I do wish that FG/Lab had just thought for one minute 'What would FF do here' when the whole IW thing started to kick off

DellyBelly

I have to say I was someone who said they would never vote FF again after the mess they made of the country. However I feel Michael Martin has done a good job as leader and I find they are the party I would vote for if another election was happening. Politics is a funny game...

Jawgap

realdanbreen wrote: »

So which party would you like to see governing this country?

A liberal socialist one.......but given we don't have one I tend to float when it comes to voting.

I wouldn't like to see any one party in government, but a coalition involving Labour, but only if they get themselves sorted, get rid of Howlin and go back to advocating some proper socialist principles......then actually stick to them when they get in!

Dravokivich

DellyBelly wrote: »

I have to say I was someone who said they would never vote FF again after the mess they made of the country. However I feel Michael Martin has done a good job as leader and I find they are the party I would vote for if another election was happening. Politics is a funny game...

I ain't laughing.

Francie Barrett

DellyBelly wrote: »

I have to say I was someone who said they would never vote FF again after the mess they made of the country. However I feel Michael Martin has done a good job as leader and I find they are the party I would vote for if another election was happening. Politics is a funny game...

:eek:

Fianna Fáil utterly wreck the country, Fine Gael then get into power spending the next 6-7 years getting it back on its feet, now it's a good time to hand the keys over to Fianna Fáil just when things are starting to come together?

Sorry, but no.

Captain Chaos

Francie Barrett wrote: »

:eek:

Fianna Fáil utterly wreck the country, Fine Gael then get into power spending the next 6-7 years getting it back on its feet, now it's a good time to hand the keys over to Fianna Fáil just when things are starting to come together?

Sorry, but no.

FG/Lab only did what the EU told them to do, FF would have been forced to take the same action if they in power.

FG/Lab get far too much cred because basically Merkle/EU and IMF put the gun to their heads. It was do or die time.

BrianBoru00

Francie Barrett wrote: »

:eek:

Fianna Fáil utterly wreck the country, Fine Gael then get into power spending the next 6-7 years getting it back on its feet, now it's a good time to hand the keys over to Fianna Fáil just when things are starting to come together?

Sorry, but no.

It's not really that difficult - no matter who gets into government the change will be minimal. The only possible way there would be radical change if a complete left wing government was elected - i.e. Labour/Sinn Fein etc. BUT they would find things a lot harder than they say i.e. dealing with unions as well as the large multinationals who will want to preserve the low corporate tax rate and who despite what people spout on about are absolutely vital for this country.

Also a lot of the "hard choices" were actually made by Fianna Fail and these "hard choices" were going to be taken regardless of who was in government.

realdanbreen

Jawgap wrote: »

A liberal socialist one.......but given we don't have one I tend to float when it comes to voting.

I wouldn't like to see any one party in government, but a coalition involving Labour, but only if they get themselves sorted, get rid of Howlin and go back to advocating some proper socialist principles......then actually stick to them when they get in!

Well you must be over the moon so. What we have now is as near to that as you can get, with the exception of Labour, happy days!

Jawgap

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well you must be over the moon so. What we have now is as near to that as you can get, with the exception of Labour, happy days!

No, not really. It's difficult to think of a more right wing (socially and economically speaking) Irish government?

I don't think the current FG-led government is universally bad (and I actually agree with water charges in principle) but on social issues it is extremely conservative. Likewise, it's public service reform agenda (What public service reform agenda, I hear you cry!) is best described as FF-lite. It's economic policy is a bit all over the place......

.....but even as a former member of FG I would definitely not want them to continue in government under their next leader as if anything the party is going to lurch further to the right. I think it would serve them well to re-discover 'Towards a Just Society' and re-cast and implement it in a meaningful way to meet the challenges of the 21st Century, rather than just reference it in soundbites when it's political expedient to do so.

Kiith

While i do blame FF for a lot of the absolute **** this country went through, i don't for a second think it would have been any different if FG had been in charge at the time. Politics in Ireland is in a sorry state, and has been for a long time. Winners reneging on promises, opposition parties shouting that they'd be way better without really talking about how they'd be better, and independents promising some utterly baffling promises which most people realise are utter nonsense.

So while i won't vote for FF, and will probably vote for FG (as i think they've done a decent job), i can understand why some people would.

Can we not just vote for the Troika instead?

Hollister11

As a big Fine Gael fan, this news is absolutely devastating.

FrancieBrady

Hollister11 wrote: »

As a big Fine Gael fan, this news is absolutely devastating.

That is just what this is, fretting of the supporters of FG mainly, I'm sure FF supporters did the same fretting after FG restored their support after 2002 for example.

Triangle

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No they didn't.

They balanced the books and that took some pain, and people don't like pain so they rejected them for it.

FF on the other hand sat back and promised lollipops and rainbows so the people preferred that.

People took all of the tax increases/service cuts well enough. It was setting up an extremely inefficient quango that was the last straw. You can't ask people to take cuts and then waste tax money in the same breath.

Don't put the blame incorrectly at the feet of the people - FG's problem was of their own making.

JustTheOne

Captain Chaos wrote: »

FG/Lab only did what the EU told them to do, FF would have been forced to take the same action if they in power.

FG/Lab get far too much cred because basically Merkle/EU and IMF put the gun to their heads. It was do or die time.

So all the cuts and water charges really isn't FG fault seems they were been told what to do?

So what did they do wrong?

Well they didn't bankrupt the country like FF did which is good enough for me.

storker

nhunter100 wrote: »

FG had an opportunity to be the main party of government for the foreseeable future, unfortunately their arrogance and contempt for the electorate got in the way.

Spot on. Michael Martin has done nothing to make his party more electable, or to give any indication that it has learned from the mistakes of the past. The credit for the FF bounceback belongs to FG arrogance, contempt for the citizens and general utter cack-handedness in government. Oh, and having a mollusc for a Taoiseach.

Nice job Enda.

FrancieBrady

JustTheOne wrote: »

So all the cuts and water charges really isn't FG fault seems they were been told what to do?

So what did they do wrong?

Well they didn't bankrupt the country like FF did which is good enough for me.

The question should be, would they have, given the same circumstances, done the same as FF.
The answer from this jury is a resounding Yes, as they didn't function well as an opposition party 'opposing' what was happening. There but for the grace of god... etc.

JustTheOne

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The question should be, would they have, given the same circumstances, done the same as FF.
The answer from this jury is a resounding Yes, as they didn't function well as an opposition party 'opposing' what was happening. There but for the grace of god... etc.

Doesn't matter we will never know.

The fact is they didn't it was FF and the history books will show that.

_Kaiser_

It's amazing how surprised some people here are at this news.

First off, Enda Kenny is a complete liability and will be remembered as one of the worse "leaders" this country has had. He's led 2 Governments that stumbled from scandal to scandal (and continue to do so), and which have been defined by equal measures of out of touch arrogance and pure incompetence and greed. As others have said above, he/they had a golden opportunity to reform politics and economics in this country in 2011.. but instead we've had the same old cronyism, waste, dodgy dealings (Siteserv etc) and so on that FF are rightly castigated for, as well as them stoking yet another property crisis under the guise of a "Recovery" which is more thanks to investment by private enterprise and favourable external factors that our open economy is wholly dependent on.

Also don't forget that FG are NEVER elected on their own merits or policies but as a protest vote against FF when the latter get too big for their boots and need slapping down. But as above, FG manage to somehow be even worse and this then results in FF being re-elected in short order. The only real difference between them are personalities and FG being more blatant and arrogant about the shenanigans.

We are effectively a one party state and have been since its foundation, so it should be no surprise that FF are lining up to take the reins once again.

vkid

New politics version 1, Phil hogan James Reilly, Irish water, frank flannery what's been going on with nama, enda the gobsh*te, leo the lips, simon Harris and the state of the health service, The arrogance of fg as a whole.. Brian Hayes...It was all supposed to be so different. Never again..

realdanbreen

vkid wrote: »

New politics version 1, Phil hogan James Reilly, Irish water, frank flannery what's been going on with nama, enda the gobsh*te, leo the lips, simon Harris and the state of the health service, The arrogance of fg as a whole.. Brian Hayes...It was all supposed to be so different. Never again..

You'd prefer what? a collection of Mick Wallace, Paul Murphy and Sinn Fein?

nhunter100

JustTheOne wrote:

The fact is they didn't it was FF and the history books will show that.

Hate to break it to you but despite the claims of FG and Labour the country was not bankrupt. However I suppose things like facts are irrelevant to political point scoring.

vkid

I want fg out. I'd actually give sf a vote no problem. Don't have a major issue with Wallace either..despite his issues he's done more to expose the corruption in this state than some fgers will ever do. Similarly other TDs. A suit and an arrogant attitude means squat.

syklops

DellyBelly wrote: »

I have to say I was someone who said they would never vote FF again after the mess they made of the country. However I feel Michael Martin has done a good job as leader and I find they are the party I would vote for if another election was happening. Politics is a funny game...

I keep seeing comments like these on forums and facebook. Can you tell me what exactly Micheal Martin has done?

FrancieBrady

syklops wrote: »

I keep seeing comments like these on forums and facebook. Can you tell me what exactly Micheal Martin has done?

In politics (and given the fluctuating sharing of power here,) the question is not what has he done, it is, what will he do?.

And obviously, the Irish electorate are buying into that at the minute, bless 'em.
It's the 'cycle' that needs breaking.

realdanbreen

vkid wrote: »

I want fg out. I'd actually give sf a vote no problem. Don't have a major issue with Wallace either..despite his issues he's done more to expose the corruption in this state than some fgers will ever do. Similarly other TDs. A suit and an arrogant attitude means squat.

Did you think this through?
EG, How many US companies or US investors do you think would say thanks but no thanks if Mick Wallace or SF were in government?

FrancieBrady

realdanbreen wrote: »

Did you think this through?
EG, How many US companies or US investors do you think would say thanks but no thanks if Mick Wallace or SF were in government?

The ones who put political favourtism over profit? Surely any sensible company would wait and see what happened?
Scaremongering is just scaremongering.

domrush

A competent government is more important to me as a voter than a government which shows signs of cronyism from time to time . FF put us through the worst recession this country has ever seen whilst also gaining a reputation as one of the most corrupt parties in Western Europe. FG are no saints but they've corrected the economy and advanced social issues under enormous external financial pressure. I can understand the decimation of Labour but as far as I'm concerned FG completed their mandate and were brought down on the ridiculous issue of water charges.

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The ones who put political favourtism over profit? Surely any sensible company would wait and see what happened?
Scaremongering is just scaremongering.

Oh so when SF say they would introduce a wealth tax and increase the corporation tax if in Government they are only kidding?
I know Gerry is their leader but surely not everything they say is untrue!

Walter H Price

To be honest its not really surprising , we're hardly spoiled for choice

FF and FG are essentially the same party , so not much choice there

Labour have become an irrelevance because again they offer nothing new or Different

Sinn Fein still have whiff of sulfur off them and their economic policy might as well have been written by Hans Christian Anderson

Greens are small and have a very narrow focus , a good partner to prop up a larger party in government but wont ever offer much more

Renua never got going and look to be done

After that there's a bunch of rag tag socialists and in it for themselves independents

Gotta vote for someone :P I would say Fine Gaels's popularity would change if Kenny was shafted for a new leader.