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FF are 'back'
Comments
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FrancieBrady wrote: »The ones who put political favourtism over profit? Surely any sensible company would wait and see what happened?
Scaremongering is just scaremongering.
Bit late to move assets, staff etc if you wait until the taxes, levies etc are introduced and/or increased.
If SF or some such government looked like a reasonably proposition I'd imagine you'd see, initially, a suspension of investment. If the sense was that such an outcome was increasing in likelihood, investments would be suspended indefinitely and most probably directed elsewhere.
That would be followed by the re-location of easy to move but perhaps valuable income generating activities with associated staff.....which would accelerate to the point that by the time SF took power the companies in question would be delighted to take the writedown on their now empty properties at the rate of tax introduced by the new government
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Bit late to move assets, staff etc if you wait until the taxes, levies etc are introduced and/or increased.
If SF or some such government looked like a reasonably proposition I'd imagine you'd see, initially, a suspension of investment. If the sense was that such an outcome was increasing in likelihood, investments would be suspended indefinitely and most probably directed elsewhere.
That would be followed by the re-location of easy to move but perhaps valuable income generating activities with associated staff.....which would accelerate to the point that by the time SF took power the companies in question would be delighted to take the writedown on their now empty properties at the rate of tax introduced by the new government
Just guesswork to be honest. The bottom line will as it always has been, 'can we make money'.0 -
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People point at EK as being incompetent, but I really dont think Varadkar is an improvement. At a time of heightened displeasure by the electorate against FG, and when the health service is at crisis point, Varadkar wanted to push ahead with the alcohol bill which would make booze more expensive. So much for trying to win the popular vote.
I think Varadkar is dangerous........and not in a Maverick, Top Gun kind of way
The Alcohol Bill was a 'good' stroke and fairly typical of FG - throw out something contentious and we end up talking about that instead of important stuff like the state of the health service.
My own view is that the Constitutional Convention was concocted to deflect public attention away from the state of the economy.0 -
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That's not the case.
FG screwed things up themselves. They had their shot. Their "new" politics turned out to be bullshit and people saw through it.
So the people who lent their vote to them said WTF, we might as well just go with the devil we know.
Fine Gael had their chance. It didn't have go this way.0 -
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My point is by saying you 'lend' you vote to someone gives the impression that it belongs elsewhere by default, which is my point. And a hell of a lot of people voted FF because their families and communities vote FF, and in rural Ireland you don't want to be seen as an outsider. It's a big issue in many country's politics, and Ireland is absolutely no exception./\
That's not the case.
FG screwed things up themselves. They had their shot. Their "new" politics turned out to be bullshit and people saw through it.
So the people who lent their vote to them said WTF, we might as well just go with the devil we know.
Fine Gael had their chance. It didn't have go this way.
FG fecked up in a good few ways, but they still had a sizable net benefit when you look at the country now vs 2011. The next few years are going to be interesting.0 -
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/\
That's not the case.
FG screwed things up themselves. They had their shot. Their "new" politics turned out to be bullshit and people saw through it.
So the people who lent their vote to them said WTF, we might as well just go with the devil we know.
Fine Gael had their chance. It didn't have go this way.
Absolutely - one of the immutable rules of politics is never waste a good crisis. They had the perfect chance to come in and effectively trash the old system and replace it with a way of doing political business that could potentially have set things up for them to remain in power for 10 years - no idea would have been too mad to try given the mess we were in.
Instead, they just pulled into the middle of the road, put it in neutral and thought they could coast to the election on the back of the troika using the previous FF administration as a whipping boy for any problems that arose.
Then they tried 'project fear' in the election, figuring it worked to get Cameron re-elected, except that the Tory project fear was a lot better crafted and much more subtle - they used the 'Harvey Norman' version of project fear - loud and in-your-face thinking that's what you needed to do to get through to an Irish electorate.
I think when the next history of FG is written Kenny won't come out of it well - he won't celebrated as the leader who delivered an unprecedented second term, he'll be derided for wasting the opportunity to cement FG's hold on government for a generation.0 -
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Because if everyone else is voting FF, they'd feel left out otherwise. And if it comes up in conversation, they wouldn't feel comfortable/confident talking about it. So easier just to do as everyone else is doing. A lot of people these days seem to vote without doing much research or even thinking much about it, and best to follow the crowd in that scenario. It's a downside to extremely tightly-knit communities, where homogeneity plays a big role (though obviously not as much as it used to).FrancieBrady wrote: »How else would they be 'seen' to be 'outsiders' if voting is secret?
The justification that FG messed up so they're returning to FF doesn't hold up, because FF messed up in a way that no government ever has before in the history of this country, or of many countries. And when people say it has to do with corruption, let's not forget FF got over 40% of the vote when Bertie was on trial for something we all knew he wasn't innocent of. And in 2011, despite having utterly tanked the entire national economy, close to half of that 40% still insisted that they will vote for them no matter what. Which goes back to what I was getting at, that FF do good-as-literally own the votes of quite a large number of people in Ireland.
If someone voted for FF in 2011, I don't see any conceivable way (short of declaring war on the rest of Europe) that they would ever vote against them.
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Either way, the country needs a solid left party, by which I mean a party to the left that is actually to the left and not the jokes we have in their place. Thinking more economically than culturally here by the way (we're a pretty progressive bunch across most of the board so there doesn't seem to be much need for government agenda on this front), the type that would want more services etc but also at the cost of higher taxes, and not the magic money tree clowns currently occupying those spaces. But that's a different matter.
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Because if everyone else is voting FF, they'd feel left out otherwise. And if it comes up in conversation, they wouldn't feel comfortable/confident talking about it. So easier just to do as everyone else is doing. A lot of people these days seem to vote without doing much research or even thinking much about it, and best to follow the crowd in that scenario. It's a downside to extremely tightly-knit communities, where homogeneity plays a big role (though obviously not as much as it used to).
The justification that FG messed up so they're returning to FF doesn't hold up, because FF messed up in a way that no government ever has before in the history of this country, or of many countries. And when people say it has to do with corruption, let's not forget FF got over 40% of the vote when Bertie was on trial for something we all knew he wasn't innocent of. And in 2011, despite having utterly tanked the entire national economy, close to half of that 40% still insisted that they will vote for them no matter what. Which goes back to what I was getting at, that FF do good-as-literally own the votes of quite a large number of people in Ireland.
If someone voted for FF in 2011, I don't see any conceivable way (short of declaring war on the rest of Europe) that they would ever vote against them.
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Either way, the country needs a solid left party, by which I mean a party to the left that is actually to the left and not the jokes we have in their place. Thinking more economically than culturally here by the way (we're a pretty progressive bunch across most of the board so there doesn't seem to be much need for government agenda on this front), the type that would want more services etc but also at the cost of higher taxes, and not the magic money tree clowns currently occupying those spaces. But that's a different matter.
Labour?
The left/right spectrum of Ireland goes roughly like this
AAA - PBP
SF - SDs -- LAB -- Greens -- FF --- FG
Renua
II
I'm not sure with having a slightly smaller gap between the communists and the republicans would change much? Or if there was another party in the mix would it anything bar add even more noise to an already disjointed raggle taggle band?0 -
If you must ask, Castlebar and around it, out to past Claremorris and Roscommon into Longford, and then more down around Kilkenny and Wexford.FrancieBrady wrote: » What part of rural Ireland are you from that people are afraid to say who they vote for?
I don't recognise that 'place' at all. And I am in my mid 50's
You don't seem to have weighed in as to why 40% of the country voted for FF despite Bertie being in a tribunal we all knew he was far from innocent in, and why nearly 20% voted for them after they ruined the country in a way that no Irish government ever has before, and hopefully never will again.0 -
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