Bile sale subject to bike to work means of payment.

shootermacg

Hi all
I noticed there was a sale on in a dublin store, so gave them a call checking the bike availability, and mentioned that I would be buying the bike as part of the Bike to work scheme.

So the assistant then asked if the payment means for this would be a money transfer or a certificate.

When I said I would be using the cert given to me by my workplace, he told me that the 20% discount would only be 10%. I was a bit taken back by this and still can't figure out why this would be.

Avatar MIA

shootermacg wrote: »

Hi all
I noticed there was a sale on in a dublin store, so gave them a call checking the bike availability, and mentioned that I would be buying the bike as part of the Bike to work scheme.

So the assistant then asked if the payment means for this would be a money transfer or a certificate.

When I said I would be using the cert given to me by my workplace, he told me that the 20% discount would only be 10%. I was a bit taken back by this and still can't figure out why this would be.

What's a certificate?

Under the bike to work scheme a bike is paid for by the employee's company.

carltonleon

Because if it is a voucher then there is a commission on that which is charged against the bike shop.
So for instance if the bike shop takes the One 4 All Voucher, then the shop is charged commission on that so that drops their margin. An Post uses a One 4 All voucher when doing the Bike to Work scheme

shootermacg

What's this one for all voucher? All I know is, I was given a cyclescheme.ie bike certificate from the workplace, which I am then supposed to sign and hand over to the shop.

Crocked

Cyclescheme will take a cut of the money before it reaches the bike shop, so they are losing some of their margin. Hence the bikeshop are only able to give you a lower discount over what they would have been able to give if your company were paying them direct.

run_Forrest_run

would your company not write a cheque for the amount of the bike (provided on headed paper by the bike shop)? My company does it this way hence no middle man taking a cut for themselves. Perhaps if you explain it to your employer they might help you out.

shootermacg

Crocked wrote: »

Cyclescheme will take a cut of the money before it reaches the bike shop, so they are losing some of their margin. Hence the bikeshop are only able to give you a lower discount over what they would have been able to give if your company were paying them direct.

Wow I never knew that, that seems pretty dodgy to me. But for the shop to charge me 150 euro on top to the sale price is a bit odd, surely the cyclescheme.ie lads don't take this much of a cut?

shootermacg

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

would your company not write a cheque for the amount of the bike (provided on headed paper by the bike shop)? My company does it this way hence no middle man taking a cut for themselves. Perhaps if you explain it to your employer they might help you out.

I doubt it, my company is a big faceless corporation.

carltonleon

shootermacg wrote: »

Wow I never knew that, that seems pretty dodgy to me. But for the shop to charge me 150 euro on top to the sale price is a bit odd, surely the cyclescheme.ie lads don't take this much of a cut?

It's the same with the One For All voucher. They take a cut so you lose out.

ec18

shootermacg wrote: »

Wow I never knew that, that seems pretty dodgy to me. But for the shop to charge me 150 euro on top to the sale price is a bit odd, surely the cyclescheme.ie lads don't take this much of a cut?

I know the voucher my company gave me took 15% which did work out to 150e that the bike shop lost out on.

FortySeven

I got a cheque from my company. That voucher system seems a bit scummy.

magicbastarder

was nice and simple for me (large corporation) - i handed the PA on the team the invoice from the bike shop, she rang them and paid by credit card over the phone within 15 minutes.

it obviously depends what systems HR have in place. some obviously outsource the work to cyclescheme, but i'm not sure what the ultimate benefit is.

easygoing39

One 4 All vouchers take a 12.5% cut if I remember correctly.Ask your company to do a bank transfer,that way theres no middle man and you get the full sale price.

shootermacg

Just got off the phone with HR and they said they, as a big company outsource to cyclescheme, who take 100 euro for admin charges.

So its basically the shop's that decide to sign up to this or not.

Still not happy here, I'm paying back my share for payment admin that I want no part of.

Avatar MIA

shootermacg wrote: »

Just got off the phone with HR and they said they, as a big company outsource to cyclescheme, who take 100 euro for admin charges.

So its basically the shop's that decide to sign up to this or not.

Still not happy here, I'm paying back my share for payment admin that I want no part of.

You'd be losing a significant portion of the tax saved. Your company are profligate.

Madness.

Rogue-Trooper

From an admin point of view, the voucher system is a godsend for lazy HR/finance departments. It's no skin of their nose (as it's the bike shop that take the hit) and all the hassle/paperwork is taken out of it for them. In my company it's a PITA to set up a new supplier so they have opted for this approach. They use biketowork.ie and I think they take a flat 10% from the bike shop - there was a list of shops you had to chose from.

As previous posters have said, if you can convince your employer to deal direct with the LBS you will get a better deal, but I didn't work for me!

shootermacg

Thanks all, I'm quitely raging here. I didn't recall signing up for a 900 voucher and paying back half of 1000.

I wonder how much of this would be come under the employer's discretion, because this looks like a stealth payment to me.

68 lost souls

Its not the bikeshop fault. Many shops give a greater discount for cheque or CC payments as a result of this. They have to make a certain margin or at least break even. The middle man needs to be removed as they add no value to the shop or customer only to a lazy HR team

C3PO

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

From an admin point of view, the voucher system is a godsend for lazy HR/finance departments. It's no skin of their nose (as it's the bike shop that take the hit) and all the hassle/paperwork is taken out of it for them. In my company it's a PITA to set up a new supplier so they have opted for this approach. They use biketowork.ie and I think they take a flat 10% from the bike shop - there was a list of shops you had to chose from.

As previous posters have said, if you can convince your employer to deal direct with the LBS you will get a better deal, but I didn't work for me!

Why don't you say "busy" rather than "lazy"? I don't work in either a HR or Finance Department but, as you say, I know that setting up a new supplier for the company I work with is a fairly onerous task! I suspect that, if there wasn't a 3rd party supplying this service, mine and many other companies like ours would simply not offer the "Cycle to Work Scheme" to it's employees!

ted1

shootermacg wrote: »

Thanks all, I'm quitely raging here. I didn't recall signing up for a 900 voucher and paying back half of 1000.

I wonder how much of this would be come under the employer's discretion, because this looks like a stealth payment to me.

You could check with revenue to see if it's actually legal. Can the middle man take money and not provide a bike?

Avatar MIA

C3PO wrote: »

Why don't you say "busy" rather than "lazy"? I don't work in either a HR or Finance Department but, as you say, I know that setting up a new supplier for the company I work with is a fairly onerous task! I suspect that, if there wasn't a 3rd party supplying this service, mine and many other companies like ours would simply not offer the "Cycle to Work Scheme" to it's employees!

Because it's a disgrace. Is setting it up a PITA ass, for sure. I work in finance and groan when someone wants to buy a bike through the scheme.

However, I'd practically choke at the thought of sidestepping my responsibilities if it involved an employee handing €100 over to a middle man.

And (as one that manages a department that operates the scheme) I don't see the advantage of the middle man I might be missing something there

magicbastarder

ted1 wrote: »

You could check with revenue to see if it's actually legal. Can the middle man take money and not provide a bike?

many HR companies outsource certain tasks. those tasks have to be paid for, so it's not an issue that the middle man is taking the money.

in this instance though, it's the OP who's ultimately paying the middleman, rather than the company who have contracted them.

ted1

magicbastarder wrote: »

many HR companies outsource certain tasks. those tasks have to be paid for, so it's not an issue that the middle man is taking the money.

in this instance though, it's the OP who's ultimately paying the middleman, rather than the company who have contracted them.

While that's true,this is a tax saving scheme with certain rules. If using a voucher should the limit be day 1100, as only 1000 is going on the bike.
On the revenue site it lists items that can be bought which is quite specific , it does not list vouchers or handling fees. Therefore the employee should be entitled to spend 1000 in the shop, and fee by a middle man should be excluded from that amount.

It also states that the employer must purchase the bike, or the employee. Do bike to work give bikes or vouchers ?

carltonleon

68 lost souls wrote: »

Its not the bikeshop fault. Many shops give a greater discount for cheque or CC payments as a result of this. They have to make a certain margin or at least break even. The middle man needs to be removed as they add no value to the shop or customer only to a lazy HR team

Bang on the money. And you lose a bit of bargaining power because of the % that the LBS have to pay.

carltonleon

Its the employer who decides to use whichever scheme and I can understand it if the comapny has a lot of employees (Mine has about 10,000 employees) but that doesn't mean that losing out on that money to bargain with the LBS isn't a pain in the arse.

C3PO

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Because it's a disgrace. Is setting it up a PITA ass, for sure. I work in finance and groan when someone wants to buy a bike through the scheme.

However, I'd practically choke at the thought of sidestepping my responsibilities if it involved an employee handing €100 over to a middle man.

And (as one that manages a department that operates the scheme) I don't see the advantage of the middle man I might be missing something there

"Disgrace" ... why? "Sidestepping my responsibilities" .... why would it be your (or your employer's) responsibility to spend significant amounts of your working day implementing the Cycle to Work Scheme on behalf of an employee? By all means, if a company believes that their Finance/HR staff are sufficiently underutilised then let them undertake the job but if not why not sub-let the task to a 3rd party? After all, it is the employee who benefits from the scheme rather than the employer!

ted1

"C3PO wrote: »

After all, it is the employee who benefits from the scheme rather than the employer!

Not entirely true, having staff that cycles in relieved pressure in staff parking, provides a healthier work place with less sick days, have more alert staff ( you can see the staff the drive or get a bus etc take about an hour to wind up when they arrive. It increases the greenness of the company which many use to create a good image for the company aswell as adding to their CSR.

Avatar MIA

C3PO wrote: »

After all, it is the employee who benefits from the scheme rather than the employer!

Do companies benefit from their employees?

On a €500 bike for a tax payer on standard rate of tax paying €100 to the middle man will practically wipe out the tax benefit of going with the bike to work scheme.

But, tell me how does the scheme work to cut down the workload for HR/Finance. Do you know?

barneystinson

ted1 wrote: »

You could check with revenue to see if it's actually legal. Can the middle man take money and not provide a bike?

The middle man isn't taking any money from the employee though?

The employer gives 1k to the middleman, in return for a voucher, which they give their employee.

The employee has a voucher for 1k and the shop charges them whatever price the shop deems appropriate to redeem the voucher against a bike. The employee gets 1k of bike for their 1k voucher, it's just that their bargaining power is less by using the voucher.

The shop then redeem the voucher from the middleman, minus the middleman's cut.

ted1

barneystinson wrote: »

The middle man isn't taking my money from the employee though?

The employer gives 1k to the middleman, in return for a voucher, which they give their employee.

The employee has a voucher for 1k and the shop charges them whatever price the shop deems appropriate to redeem the voucher against a bike. The employee gets 1k of bike for their 1k voucher, it's just that their bargaining power is less by using the voucher.

The shop then redeem the voucher from the middleman, minus the middleman's cut.

So they are selling a voucher which isn't listed as an item you can buy.

Avatar MIA

barneystinson wrote: »

The shop then redeem the voucher from the middleman, minus the middleman's cut.

What's the benefit of the middle man?

The only thing I can think of is that a company would only have to deal with one supplier rather than maybe a half dozen.

If that's the only reason it's a shocking waste of employee money.