Everyones Opinions on Farmers

mariaalice

Do not like the farming as a life style attitude, at the end of the day it is a business and should be making money or at least a living for the farmer, on the other had I do see where that thinking about a farm comes from.

There are very few job where you work on you own all the time without encountering other people for long stretches of time, When you work with other as the majority do there are decorum's and ways of interacting that develop and they shape behaviour and farmers often escape them, for example if you are a farmer on your own you could get up put on you torn jumper and torn jean not bother with combing you hair and head out to work,( not saying all farmers do that ) someone in employment with other just can't do that. While the work is often very psychically hard there is no set time tables in the way other work has and all that shapes the person in to the person they are.

tabby aspreme

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

By subsidizing corn production the US government subsidizes all types of farming due to the high levels of grain used in US meat and dairy farming

Permabear

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freedominacup

tabby aspreme wrote: »

I don't think dairy farmers benefited directly from cap payments, milk production was not linked to it unlike other types of farming.
2 litres of milk costs around € 1.70 , the farmers would get approximately 45 cent of that.

FYP.

Pawwed Rig

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

If I had married the brother (who was left with the farm) I'd be a regular poster in that forum. Thankfully I'm happily married.

Marrying your brother is a bit more of an issue than farming surely?

Permabear

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qo2cj1dsne8y4k

mariaalice wrote: »

Do not like the farming as a life style attitude, at the end of the day it is a business and should be making money or at least a living for the farmer, on the other had I do see where that thinking about a farm comes from.

There are very few job where you work on you own all the time without encountering other people for long stretches of time, When you work with other as the majority do there are decorum's and ways of interacting that develop and they shape behaviour and farmers often escape them, for example if you are a farmer on your own you could get up put on you torn jumper and torn jean not bother with combing you hair and head out to work,( not saying all farmers do that ) someone in employment with other just can't do that. While the work is often very psychically hard there is no set time tables in the way other work has and all that shapes the person in to the person they are.

I'd disagree on set time tables.
You need the land plowed and prepared for sowing crops before a certain date so it'll actually grow.
You need to look after the crops, keep them sprayed, etc.
With the animals, you have a day or so to notice a cow in heat. You have hours to notice is the animal is sick and needs a vet. You have constant emergencies to look out for, cattle breaking out, cows in difficulty giving birth, cows pushing their womb out of them, cattle getting stuck in bogholes and rivers, a cow eating something (a potato) for example and having it stuck in their throat. A cow that's gone blind in one eye, a cow with an infection, a cow with a broken leg because she got stuck jumping a wall.

Maybe you're right in that there's no deadlines because most of what happens on a farm requires fixing right at that moment. It's not all sauntering around with your hands in your pockets looking into the neighbours garden

maudgonner

mariaalice wrote: »

for example if you are a farmer on your own you could get up put on you torn jumper and torn jean not bother with combing you hair and head out to work,( not saying all farmers do that ) someone in employment with other just can't do that.

There are plenty of jobs where you can do that besides farming.

I worked in IT for long enough to know that :pac:

Permabear

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IvyTheTerrible

Permabear wrote: »

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Also, it'd be a bit bloody stupid to go out to do a mucky job in your best clothes!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

There's plenty of photos of me doing farming in a pair of wellies and pj bottoms and my dressing gown that looks like a sheep. I'd go to work like that too if I could get away with it

mariaalice

LexieOnRale wrote: »

There's plenty of photos of me doing farming in a pair of wellies and pj bottoms and my dressing gown that looks like a sheep. I'd go to work like that too if I could get away with it

But the point is you can't get away with it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

mariaalice wrote: »

But the point is you cant get away with it.

When my OH works from home, he is usually in just boxers until after lunch.
You'd need more than that on you on a frosty morning cleaning out a shed

mariaalice

LexieOnRale wrote: »

When my OH works from home, he is usually in just boxers until after lunch.
You'd need more than that on you on a frosty morning cleaning out a shed

I think you are missing my point he doesn't work from home all the time, which is what farmers are essentially doing working from home all the time so in a sense farming shapes the personality of the farmer in a way no other job does.

Having said that I met some colleges of my sister last week and you would know a mile off that they were teachers yet it very hard to put in to words how you would describe this.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

They looked like they'd put you standing in front of the Bosca bruscar if you put a foot wrong?

thegreatgonzo

freedominacup wrote: »

Ag colleges like teacher training colleges should be subsumed into more mainstream third level colleges. Too much group think in single discipline institutions like that. Young people need to be exposed to other young people with totally different aspirations and goals to expand their world view.

Most of them are affiliated in some way with a third level institution if they offer a degree course. Students will spend time in both colleges throughout the duration of their degree.
To the people insisting farmers aren't progressive, there is enormous emphasis now on training and knowledge sharing.

thegreatgonzo

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

.

My nearest agricultural college, Gurteen, takes young guys on a part-time basis. I know guys who 'commute' from their farms, where they work the rest of the day.

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Gurteen is lovely. The veterinary nurses and the equine business students in AIT do practical work there:)

Fluffy Cat 88

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Marrying your brother is a bit more of an issue than farming surely?

Ah sure it kept the wedding guest list small

I meant the brother in law

Chain Smoker

My opinion, coming from a farm, is:
1. most farmers are good sorts
2. some are seriously embittered c*nts
3. all are thoroughly institutionalised, you'd have to be out of your mind to actually choose that lifestyle, but if you've been raised with it there's a pretty good chance that it'd be hard to adjust to something else

tayto lover

What's the average working week for a farmer lads? How many hours?
No exaggerating now. Say a dairy farm and a non-dairy farm.

Lady is a tramp

tayto lover wrote: »

What's the average working week for a farmer lads? How many hours?
No exaggerating now. Say a dairy farm and a non-dairy farm.

I would say 7am-9pm, with 2-3 hours for breaks/meals, 7 days a week.

Add in 50% overnights for a quarter of the year, for farmers with calving cows. Don't know why but they always want to give birth in the middle of the night!

siblers

Don't forget silage/hay season, depending on your role, you could be going from daybreak in the morning till past midnight.

Sam Quentin

They're very serious, sometimes bútt ignorant and seem extremely sour!?...ohh and sometimes they look like they just found a shít in their pocket!!!!They take the 'Pretend You've Got No Money' scenario very serious...........

NiallBoo

onrail wrote: »

1. Grass chewin', turf cuttin', GAA lovin' gob****es who couldn't function outside the bog;
2. Overly pampered, EU subsidised wealthy cute-whoors from the country;
3. Poor enslaved bastards working mental hours for f**k all
4. Normal people. Stop making an issue where there is no issue, you culchie gob****e.
   

Answers on a postcard. Or here I suppose.

Most farmers I knew are described by all of these at once and I see no contradiction in that.

Electric Sheep

[snipped] epitomizes every farmer's son I ever knew in my youth, to the point where I am convinced his character is a piece of performance art rather than a real person.

Electric Sheep

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

An Irish farmer meeting a bank manager would be much more likely to be poor mouthing it up than wearing a suit.

freedominacup

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I would say 7am-9pm, with 2-3 hours for breaks/meals, 7 days a week.

Add in 50% overnights for a quarter of the year, for farmers with calving cows. Don't know why but they always want to give birth in the middle of the night!

I would say that the guy who is working in that manner is an inefficient/ineffectual gob****e who needs to seriously reappraise what he's doing.

sbsquarepants

freedominacup wrote: »

I would say that the guy who is working in that manner is an inefficient/ineffectual gob****e who needs to seriously reappraise what he's doing.

As I've said before - if you're working those hours and still can't make a living, you really need to do something a bit more useful. You'd get paid about a grand a week to work those hours in McDonalds ffs!

This is the problem with the lies farmers have been telling to get hand outs, they got a little more exaggerated every year and now we have the situation where we have people getting out of their 50 grand jeep into their hundred grand tractor yet claiming they make less than minimum wage. It's fúcking ridiculous.

thegreatgonzo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

As I've said before - if you're working those hours and still can't make a living, you really need to do something a bit more useful. .

I can't make a living just farming on it's own, so I have a job off farm. But what I do is useful. I raise cattle in a clean and gentle environment. Most of them will never have received an antibiotic because I work hard to to keep the farm free of pathogens. They are handled and treated gently since they are calves and experience as little stress as possible.
I've visited dozens of more intensive farms and hygiene always suffers. The amount of antibiotics used as preventatives is more than most people imagine. I've seen cattle dealers with hundreds of cattle on their herd number beating and stressing them needlessly because they are just units to be shifted at the next mart.
If people care about where their beef comes from then they might consider what I do to be useful.

Permabear

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OldNotWIse

2.

OldNotWIse

Do you still get EU grants for having sheep or something?

sbsquarepants

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I can't make a living just farming on it's own, so I have a job off farm. But what I do is useful. I raise cattle in a clean and gentle environment. Most of them will never have received an antibiotic because I work hard to to keep the farm free of pathogens. They are handled and treated gently since they are calves and experience as little stress as possible.
I've visited dozens of more intensive farms and hygiene always suffers. The amount of antibiotics used as preventatives is more than most people imagine. I've seen cattle dealers with hundreds of cattle on their herd number beating and stressing them needlessly because they are just units to be shifted at the next mart.
If people care about where their beef comes from then they might consider what I do to be useful.

Maybe useful is a poor choice of words on my part. But the fact remains - if you can't make a living doing whatever it is you do, you need to do something else, plain and simple.
I certainly don't owe you your livelihood, it would be nonsensical to expect tax payers to subsidise carpenters, or electricians, or plumbers, yet people need doors, lights and toilets just as much as they need corn, milk or beef.
Farming is a job, just like any other job. It's not some heroic public service vocation. A job that doesn't pay your bills, is just a shítty job. Anybody who has a shítty job, would be better served getting their arse in gear and finding themselves a better one, rather than just automatically putting their hand out.

mariaalice

Has anyone else come across this one: family/farmer dependant on the income of one partner ( usually the wife ) while fooling themselves that they are making a living from the farm.

Permabear

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Donnielighto

It's a tough aul life

thegreatgonzo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Maybe useful is a poor choice of words on my part. But the fact remains - if you can't make a living doing whatever it is you do, you need to do something else, plain and simple.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I have another job

[/QUOTE]
I certainly don't owe you your livelihood...It's not some heroic public service vocation. A job that doesn't pay your bills, is just a shítty job. Anybody who has a shítty job, would be better served getting their arse in gear and finding themselves a better one, rather than just automatically putting their hand out.[/QUOTE]
You are making assumptions that are way off the mark and very insulting. Nowhere have I said anyone owes me a living or that I am performing some kind of heroism. You seem to assume that every farmer is getting tens of thousands in subsidies, well we aren't. The fact remains that my farm and many others is producing healthy quality food and if you think that isn't of any value then well that's your business.

Permabear

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Lyaiera

If all the non-profitable farms shut down tomorrow, it'd take a week before people were complaining about the cost of milk for their weetabix.

siblers

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Maybe useful is a poor choice of words on my part. But the fact remains - if you can't make a living doing whatever it is you do, you need to do something else, plain and simple.
I certainly don't owe you your livelihood, it would be nonsensical to expect tax payers to subsidise carpenters, or electricians, or plumbers, yet people need doors, lights and toilets just as much as they need corn, milk or beef.
Farming is a job, just like any other job. It's not some heroic public service vocation. A job that doesn't pay your bills, is just a shítty job. Anybody who has a shítty job, would be better served getting their arse in gear and finding themselves a better one, rather than just automatically putting their hand out.

They don't put their hand out, Farmers would much rather be paid a fair price for the work they do but when the work they do equates to less than the cost they put in, then there's obviously an issue. Is it fair that you can buy 2 litres of milk for around €2 but a farmer will only receive around €0.44? People say farmers want grants and handouts etc but ****ing consumers want everything for dirt cheap, it's the farmer who looses out then, you can't expect to have cheap dairy/meat prices and then go complaining about farmers wanting to be compensated for being underpaid for the products they sell.

If there were fair prices, there would be no need for grants etc but prices aren't fair, so grants exist and these grants exist because the goverment and the EU know full well that farmers don't get the prices they deserve.

And this nonsense about "oh just get a normal job" is horse****. You can't just abandon a farm, equipment, 100 acres of land, livestock etc. It doesn't work that way.

Plus, I presume you and others like having access to milk, meat etc? I wouldn't fancy living in this country if we didn't have an agricultural sector. Go drink the milk you get on the continent or try factory reared meat you get in the states and you wouldn't be long changing your attitude.

OldNotWIse

siblers wrote: »

They don't put their hand out, Farmers would much rather be paid a fair price for the work they do but when the work they do equates to less than the cost they put in, then there's obviously an issue. Is it fair that you can buy 2 litres of milk for around €2 but a farmer will only receive around €0.44? People say farmers want grants and handouts etc but ****ing consumers want everything for dirt cheap, it's the farmer who looses out then, you can't expect to have cheap dairy/meat prices and then go complaining about farmers wanting to be compensated for being underpaid for the products they sell.

If there were fair prices, there would be no need for grants etc but prices aren't fair, so grants exist and these grants exist because the goverment and the EU know full well that farmers don't get the prices they deserve.

And this **** about "oh just get a normal job" is a load of ****ing nonsense. You can't just abandon a farm, equipment, 100 acres of land, livestock etc. It doesn't work that way.

Plus, I presume you and others like having access to milk, meat etc? I wouldn't fancy living in this country if we didn't have an agricultural sector. Go drink the milk you get on the continent or try factory reared meat you get in the states and you wouldn't be long changing your attitude.

I'm vegan so I couldn't care less about meat or dairy, suffice to say I am glad we don't have factory farming in this country. I have noticed that beef is quite expensive though - is it the same situation with beef as dairy, that the middle man is pocketing the profit? Genuinely curious. Another related point I think is that we are brainwashed into thinking we need "meat and two veg" every single day when this is simply not true. Meat a couple of times a week and maybe fish once or twice is sufficient. If people didn't insist on eating meat every day, they wouldn't complain about the cost. Even before I gave up meat, I much preferred to buy good quality meat once or twice a week, instead of eating cráp every day.

thegreatgonzo

siblers wrote: »

Plus, I presume you and others like having access to milk, meat etc? I wouldn't fancy living in this country if we didn't have an agricultural sector. Go drink the milk you get on the continent or try factory reared meat you get in the states and you wouldn't be long changing your attitude.

Not to mention the burden on the environment these systems of farming are creating.

FortySeven

Lyaiera wrote: »

If all the non-profitable farms shut down tomorrow, it'd take a week before people were complaining about the cost of milk for their weetabix.

They shouldn't and won't be shut down. They need to be recognised as failed busineseses and then consolidated with the successful ones.

I think the only thing most people would notice is a massive reduction in slow moving traffic on roads. It wouldn't even make much impact on unemployment.

siblers

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm vegan so I couldn't care less about meat or dairy, suffice to say I am glad we don't have factory farming in this country. I have noticed that beef is quite expensive though - is it the same situation with beef as dairy, that the middle man is pocketing the profit? Genuinely curious.

Beef prices can be quite good, a couple years back beef prices were quite low and farmers had to hold off on selling but they have improved in recent times, unlike milk which is far too low.

Farmers sell straight to the factory, who then distribute to shops etc. It's the same with milk, farmer goes to the creamery and then creamery goes to the shops. Some will sell directly to butchers or might sell directly themselves but that would be on a pretty small scale.

thegreatgonzo

[QUOTE=FortySeven;100332036
I think the only thing most people would notice is a massive reduction in slow moving traffic on roads. It wouldn't even make much impact on unemployment.[/QUOTE]

A lot of that traffic you are complaining about is done by contractors, so the same amount of slurry will have to be spread and silage to be cut so it won't change the traffic as much as you think.

FortySeven

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

Not to mention the burden on the environment these systems of farming are creating.

Consolidation can be achieved without resorting to feedlot farming and monoculture arable cropping.

Ireland's farms are begging for consolidation and we are wise enough as a nation to see the risks of excessive production processes attributed to larger enterprise and mitigate them through legislation.

Donnielighto

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I've edited my post, read the rest of yours and I see your point of view. TBF though you are in the minority when it comes to office work, your hours are insane. As an aside You will probably be working in your industry for love of the job as opposed to for the pay down the line? (I mean you'd be able to give it up but wont) Would that be right?

FortySeven

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

A lot of that traffic you are complaining about is done by contractors, so the same amount of slurry will have to be spread and silage to be cut so it won't change the traffic as much as you think.

Not really giving out about the traffic. More the needless amount of individual equipment being used to farm what are almost subsistence plots.

My point was that we would not notice any price shifts. If we did they would likely be down. Current system is massively inefficient.

thegreatgonzo

FortySeven wrote: »

Ireland's farms are begging for consolidation and we are wise enough as a nation to see the risks of excessive production processes attributed to larger enterprise and mitigate them through legislation.

There is already intensive farming in this country and misuse of antibiotics that doesn't break any laws. We don't need any more of it.

thegreatgonzo

FortySeven wrote: »

Not really giving out about the traffic. More the needless amount of individual equipment being used to farm what are almost subsistence plots.

It's quite common here for farmers to purchase machinery together and share it. But mostly work like slurry, hay and silage making is contracted out.