Everyones Opinions on Farmers

FortySeven

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

There is already intensive farming in this country and misuse of antibiotics that doesn't break any laws. We don't need any more of it.

It doesn't have to be copied though. Does it?

It's going to happen within a generation anyway as farmers of old die off and farms are sold. Better we recognise what is coming and legislate to ensure a framework of protection is in place to prevent intensive, polluting or nature destructive methods.

Donnielighto

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

It's quite common here for farmers to purchase machinery together and share it. But mostly work like slurry, hay and silage making is contracted out.

Define common, doesnt happen here at all.

FortySeven

Donnielighto wrote: »

Define common, doesnt happen here at all.

Doesn't seem to here in the west. Loads of ancient machinery on the roads.

thegreatgonzo

FortySeven wrote: »

It doesn't have to be copied though. Does it?

It's going to happen within a generation anyway as farmers of old die off and farms are sold. Better we recognise what is coming and legislate to ensure a framework of protection is in place to prevent intensive, polluting or nature destructive methods.

I don't think it will be that simple but you are right about the changes that are coming regarding the ageing population.

thegreatgonzo

FortySeven wrote: »

Doesn't seem to here in the west. Loads of ancient machinery on the roads.

I'm in the west. Many of my neighbours have done it.

colin produces

Farmer's always smell like slurry, even if they have had a shower and are dressed nicely. Its as if the slurry smell emanates from their pores.

FortySeven

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I don't think it will be that simple but you are right about the changes that are coming regarding the ageing population.

I don't expect it will be simple but we as a race have managed much larger difficulties in the past.

As for the asset sharing. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's far from common.

Sharing and farmer are not two words you hear in the same sentence very often.

siblers

My dad and a few other farmers share equipment, some machinery can't be shared as farmers will need to use it at the same time (slurrey tanks, fertiliser spreaders) but they often share equipment that is only used for one off jobs like track machines, cement turners, trailers etc.

jmayo

mariaalice wrote: »

Do not like the farming as a life style attitude, at the end of the day it is a business and should be making money or at least a living for the farmer, on the other had I do see where that thinking about a farm comes from.

It is not just a business or at least for the vast majority of farmers.
Maybe some people want industrial farms that cover thousands of acres?

Unless you are big, it is very much a lifestyle.
Almost all farms are also homes.
I would consider small businesses like shops and pubs to be somewhat similar.
The family is usually a part of the business and people work long hours.
But I guess all those shops and pubs should sell up and shure we can all shop in Lidl, Aldi, Tesco or drink at the local Starbucks.

If most farmers looked at it purely in financial or business terms then the vast majority would be better off selling up.
But farming is a way of life, not just a business.
How else can someone realistically view being on call 24/7 as in the case of most life stock farmers.
How else can someone view sacrificing one of your few nice summer days and evenings to spend it out in a field doing silage or hay.
A lot of people on here bitching about farmers don't realise that they can go home from work, spend a couple of leisurely hours in the garden or just put their feet up watching tv of an evening.
For most farmers they don't down tools at 5 or 5.30, most especially at certain times of the year.
In the summer the longer daylight hours means work needs to done outside be it the likes of silage, hay, cereal harvesting, land reclaimation, fencing, pasture topping, etc.
In the early spring it may be calving or lambing and those lambs and calves don't tend to heed clocks very much.
In winter animals need to be housed, fed and mucked out.

Yes there can be quiet times, but on a farm there is usually something needing doing.
A farmer is usually a bit of a jack of all trades in order to survive and they have to turn their hand to being a mechanic, carpenter, blocklayer, roofer, plumber, nurse, vet, accountant, office manager and bloody weather forecaster.

And we always hear people bitching about farmers buying new machines or nice new expensive tractors.
They aren't buying them to ride around on, they are tools and assets of the business and necessary to perform functions on the farm.
It would be akin to someone bitching that a small plastics company was investing in new moulding machines.

And btw the tractors are almost always bought on credit, it isn't a case of farmers turning up with wads of ill gotten cash.
Jeeps are bought to tow trailers and are again part of the business.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Maybe useful is a poor choice of words on my part. But the fact remains - if you can't make a living doing whatever it is you do, you need to do something else, plain and simple.
I certainly don't owe you your livelihood, it would be nonsensical to expect tax payers to subsidise carpenters, or electricians, or plumbers, yet people need doors, lights and toilets just as much as they need corn, milk or beef.

No matter what way you swing it, you need food above all else.
Trying living without it for a while. :rolleyes:

Actually the taxpayers subsidise a lot more than you think.
A lot of companies set up in Ireland have been subsidisied by getting tax breaks, grants, etc.
You do remember the banks, the greatest subsidisation in the history of the state ?

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Farming is a job, just like any other job. It's not some heroic public service vocation. A job that doesn't pay your bills, is just a shítty job. Anybody who has a shítty job, would be better served getting their arse in gear and finding themselves a better one, rather than just automatically putting their hand out.

BTW that is the typical attitude adopted by quiet a few around here.
It is the same mindset that believes that when factory shuts down everyone should train and educate themselves to be scientists, software developers, financial analysts, etc.

The laugh is that a lot around here who complain about small farms and subsidised farms will be the ones bitching and moaning about GM crops, industrial feed lot farming and why they can't get organically reared steaks and free range chickens. :rolleyes:

FortySeven

colin produces wrote: »

Farmer's always smell like slurry, even if they have had a shower and are dressed nicely. Its as if the slurry smell emanates from their pores.

I had a girlfriend who worked in a chipshop. She made me drool for all the wrong reasons.

Can't really blame the farmers for the smell. It comes with the job.

colin produces

Farmers are always:

1: Tight with money
2: Giving the poor mouth about how they aren't making enough money.
3: Looking for money from the government/E.U. in subsidies.

fepper

Most people are tight with money not just farmers

pickarooney

Electric Sheep wrote: »

An Irish farmer meeting a bank manager would be much more likely to be poor mouthing it up than wearing a suit.

To get a loan you have to look like you don't need it.

Lyaiera

colin produces wrote: »

Farmers are always:

1: Tight with money
2: Giving the poor mouth about how they aren't making enough money.
3: Looking for money from the government/E.U. in subsidies.

And their sons are in university playing poker every night with their grant money. Or so my father often claimed.

Sam Kade

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Farmers are moaning bastards in general, but they're not as hard to listen to as the bastards that moan about them.

Irish water protestors are the most worst moaners I've come across.

Sam Kade

pickarooney wrote: »

To get a loan you have to look like you don't need it.

To get a loan you have to look like you'll be able to pay it back.

Cee-Jay-Cee

IMO farmers are hard working folk who work long hours 7 days a week with very few breaks/holidays however farming is heavily subsidised by the EU and while they may be hard workers doing long hours, the many farmers I know are very wealthy people who complain non stop about how hard their work is and how little money there is in it yet their cars/jeeps, houses and machinery don't reflect that.

PáircLife

smelly

Donnielighto

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I'm in the west. Many of my neighbours have done it.

Rural Galway, never heard of it

whisky_galore

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

IMO farmers are hard working folk who work long hours 7 days a week with very few breaks/holidays however farming is heavily subsidised by the EU and while they may be hard workers doing long hours, the many farmers I know are very wealthy people who complain non stop about how hard their work is and how little money there is in it yet their cars/jeeps, houses and machinery don't reflect that.

How many of your peers don't have a nice house and/or nice car(s)? Do they live in hovels and drive 20 y/o rustbuckets?

ganmo

There's a few things on this thread that need looking at.

Small farmers selling up - as with any sale you have to look at who would buy the land sheds etc? If the direct neighbours don't buy it the road traffic will only increase, and it will be the same machinery the small farmer sold because it still works.
Why would any farmer buy land when there's a 20+ years payback timeframe(my own figures).
Young fathers are going to modernise Irish farms - take a gander at the farming forum threads looking for advice on inherited land the advice is typically
1. Find a sucker to lease it to
2. Plant it with trees
3. Do as little as possible to maximise sfp
Each of the above pieces of advice is accompanied with - keep your full time job.
Where is the scope in modernisation if they are your options? Baring in mind that from my experience those giving the advice are progressive individuals.

kowtow

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

There's nothing wrong with that.

You a just training to be a farmer, one day you'll graduate and see why it was all worthwhile.

The Cool

My dad is a very small-scale farmer, I'm not sure how big your farming operations have to be to make a good living from it but my dad certainly doesn't. He works six and a half days a week for what seems to me to be a pittance, but it's what he's done since he was 14.
There's something to be said for having a monday to friday job and a life outside of it, but saying that, I'm glad of my upbringing when I see other people my age afraid of a bit of dirty work! I'd never have a farm myself but my kids will be spending summers at their grandparents helping muck out sheds and feeding animals.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

NiallBoo

The Cool wrote: »

My dad is a very small-scale farmer, I'm not sure how big your farming operations have to be to make a good living from it but my dad certainly doesn't. He works six and a half days a week for what seems to me to be a pittance, but it's what he's done since he was 14.
There's something to be said for having a monday to friday job and a life outside of it, but saying that, I'm glad of my upbringing when I see other people my age afraid of a bit of dirty work! I'd never have a farm myself but my kids will be spending summers at their grandparents helping muck out sheds and feeding animals.

I think farmers do work horrible hours for little reward.

But few of them do themselves any favours. They tend to sink money into the farm that'll never really pay off and don't understand the value of their assets

They have the means of selling up and the capital to go do something different with a much easier life. If they look at that and decide that they prefer to stay on the farm then fair enough - but I think that few of them understand what a strong position they're in...and how the life they're living its their choice.

vicwatson

If they just registered their trailers and cleaned up the fookin roads after they pull half a field out on to it my respect would rise a bit. Just become law abiding.

Most hated thread on boards? - farming. Ask a question over there that they don't like and they are like a swarm of bees on ya.

Reggie.

vicwatson wrote: »

If they just registered their trailers and cleaned up the fookin roads after they pull half a field out on to it my respect would rise a bit. Just become law abiding.

Most hated thread on boards? - farming. Ask a question over there that they don't like and they are like a swarm of bees on ya.

Maybe it's the way you ask the question?

ganmo

vicwatson wrote: »

If they just registered their trailers and cleaned up the fookin roads after they pull half a field out on to it my respect would rise a bit. Just become law abiding.

Most hated thread on boards? - farming. Ask a question over there that they don't like and they are like a swarm of bees on ya.

Register trailers? Someone's been winding you up

Buford T. Justice XIX

FortySeven wrote: »

With CAP gone we could drop the punitive import tarriffs and allow competitiveness back into the market. A lot of small farms would go out of business but that is not a bad thing. Not denying it would hurt the country short term but long term the benefits would be for everyone.

Why drop just agricultural ones?

Why not drop the whole lot?

Or is it easier to drop someone elses while keeping your own intact?

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Very similar to career dole scroungers, they wait for handouts thinking they're owed a living...

If you can't afford to run the farm without grants, sell up and get a job like the rest of us who weren't born with acerage

Every sector of Irish industry is subsidised to one degree or another. Look at the tech industries in, e.g., Limerick and Galway or the many schemes like and preceding wobsbridge.

As to 'grants', they are compensation paid by the EU to compensate for allowing access of cheaper foods from other countries into the EU in return for EU access to those countries for high value EU goods. EU goods which are made by many tens of thousands of EU workers who wouldn't have jobs due to the high tariffs being charged by those importing countries making their goods uncompetitive.

Likewise, every worker in the EU is subsidised by government legislation to set minimum wages, holiday time and pay, sick days and rates, need for visas for work etc. etc.

Farming subsidies are transparent and available for all to see. Non-farmers subsidies are hidden and very, very opaque. I wonder how much your wages are being subsidised every year and would you like if it was posted online for all to see?

Chain Smoker wrote: »

My opinion, coming from a farm, is:
1. most farmers are good sorts
2. some are seriously embittered c*nts
3. all are thoroughly institutionalised, you'd have to be out of your mind to actually choose that lifestyle, but if you've been raised with it there's a pretty good chance that it'd be hard to adjust to something else

Meh, i knew what I was getting into when I signed up.

I don't need constant stimulation from others to get through the day, I do well left to my own devices to achieve my goals without having some plank demanding I answer his email about nothing important:)

As to c*nts, they are present in every walk of life in exactly the same proportion as in farming.

Buford T. Justice XIX

vicwatson wrote: »

If they just registered their trailers and cleaned up the fookin roads after they pull half a field out on to it my respect would rise a bit. Just become law abiding.

Most hated thread on boards? - farming. Ask a question over there that they don't like and they are like a swarm of bees on ya.

One of the most popular forums on Boards is the Farming & Forestry forum:)

Iirc, it used be the 5th or 6th most popular one on Boards:pac:

Buford T. Justice V

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Every sector of Irish industry is subsidised to one degree or another.

I'm from a farming background, and have been defending farmers on this thread, but this argument is a little wonky on its legs.

Farmers are a tiny proportion of European workers, and they generate 6% of European GDP, yet over 40% of the EU's budget is spent on the Common Agricultural Policy.

This is clearly disproportionate.

Now, I happen to think it's a justifiable imbalance (we all want clean air, food, and pleasant views of pastoral landscapes).

Nevertheless, it is not comparable to the financial supports extended to other European industries, not even banking.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm from a farming background, and have been defending farmers on this thread, but this argument is a little wonky on its legs.

Farmers are a tiny proportion of European workers, and they generate 6% of European GDP, yet over 40% of the EU's budget is spent on the Common Agricultural Policy.

This is clearly disproportionate.

Now, I happen to think it's a justifiable imbalance (we all want clean air, food, and pleasant views of pastoral landscapes).

Nevertheless, it is not comparable to the financial supports extended to other European industries, not even banking.

That's a residual from the foundation of the EEC where there was a determination that Europe would never again wage war and that the famine present in Northern Europe in winter 44-45 would never again happen. Hence the concentration on food production.

Also the Agricultural budget level has fallen steadily in both real and nominal terms while the overall budget has grown in pace with GNP growth across Europe so Agriculture will steadily decline until another crisis erupts which will force a reappraisal.

Buford T. Justice V

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That's a residual from the foundation of the EEC where there was a determination that Europe would never again wage war and that the famine present in Northern Europe in winter 44-45 would never again happen.

Ah jayzis. There are some good, modern justifications for CAP, but that ain't one of them.

"A residual"? What does that even mean in economic terms? Ireland was snowed-under in 2009, we ain't still buying emergency snow salt, sunshine. The banks collapsed in 2008-09, but we don't keep blanket-guaranteeing them every year.

There is no sound economic argument in favour of the huge CAP budget to the effect that we must slowly taper-off our funding.

There are three modern arguments in favour of CAP, such as self-sufficient food security (which, in fairness, you mentioned), environmental protection and rural development.

Justification based on the premise that CAP is "a residual" (again, meaningless) does not hold water.

CAP is necessary, and supporting small/ artisan producers is necessary, but CAP probably is a bit bloated. The disproportionate allocation of resources is just a bit too mcuh.

40% of the budget for 6% of GDP? Nope.

FortySeven

I don't like any subsidies. As far as I'm aware I am not in receipt of any. Cap is disproportionate and only recently dropped to 40% of eu budget. It used to be much higher.

NiallBoo

FortySeven wrote: »

I don't like any subsidies. As far as I'm aware I am not in receipt of any.

You're subsidised in the sense that cap reduces your grocery bill.

Though there's a lot of confounding factors there, like how much if the subsidy you're paying yourself and the possibility of actual production cost being lower if small holders went out of business.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ah jayzis. There are some good, modern justifications for CAP, but that ain't one of them.

"A residual"? What does that even mean in economic terms? Ireland was snowed-under in 2009, we ain't still buying emergency snow salt, sunshine. The banks collapsed in 2008-09, but we don't keep blanket-guaranteeing them every year.

There is no sound economic argument in favour of the huge CAP budget to the effect that we must slowly taper-off our funding.

There are three modern arguments in favour of CAP, such as self-sufficient food security (which, in fairness, you mentioned), environmental protection and rural development.

Justification based on the premise that CAP is "a residual" (again, meaningless) does not hold water.

CAP is necessary, and supporting small/ artisan producers is necessary, but CAP probably is a bit bloated. The disproportionate allocation of resources is just a bit too mcuh.

40% of the budget for 6% of GDP? Nope.

As I said above, the CAP budget has a transparent method of demonstrating the exact monetary cost of support to the agricultural sector.

Every other sector has both government and EU legislation to support the pay levels of the workers in those sectors.

Why can't a Pakistani taxi driver or a Lebanese chef or a Sudanese shopworker simply start work any time they wish? Many would be willing to work for longer hours for lower wages and fewer benefits but are prevented from doing so due to legislation.

Isn't that just an indirect subsidy from legislation to keep wages artificially higher than they should be if that legislation was abolished? Similar, in fact, to those that seek an end to Agricultural supports but would freak out if similar was proposed in their sector?

It's no skin off my nose, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of seeking others subsidies being cut while ignoring the similar, but less transparent, subsidies they are receiving.

FortySeven

NiallBoo wrote: »

You're subsidised in the sense that cap reduces your grocery bill.

Though there's a lot of confounding factors there, like how much if the subsidy you're paying yourself and the possibility of actual production cost being lower if small holders went out of business.

Cap does not reduce my grocery bill. It forces prices up by limiting competition. Cap is not just subsidy, it is also protectionism.

thegreatgonzo

Donnielighto wrote: »

Rural Galway, never heard of it

Also rural Galway. We bought a hay baler with our neighbours. Maybe your neighbours just don't like you.:pac:

FortySeven

You are attempting to compare immigration with protectionism?

NiallBoo

FortySeven wrote: »

Cap does not reduce my grocery bill. It forces prices up by limiting competition. Cap is not just subsidy, it is also protectionism.

You mean non eu food imports?
A bit of a separate issue (ie. You couldn't say that if cap itself weren't there that protectionism wouldn't exist).

Also - and this is going to seem very fluffy - the true of a lot of products isn't fully reflected in their price. You find a lot of environmental and humanitarian costs borne by producers much further down the line, to some extent this happens inside the eu, but much more outside it.

So...while the price might drop, that doesn't mean the cost will.

Neddyusa

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

For a lad who works so hard for such long hours, over 3,000 posts per year on boards is some achievement.

Those "not-so-hard-working" farmers could only look on in envy

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

FortySeven

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You hedge fund guys and your clever maths tricks. You'll have us all ruined!

freedominacup

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

40% of the budget for 6% of GDP? Nope.

CAP is around .4% of the EU budget. It is the only government spending wholly administered from Brussels. There is no CHP, CEP, CDP, CSP. Only agriculture is Brussels based. Total government spending in the EU is north of 10,000,000,000,000. 40 billion isn't even walking around money in those terms.

Waffletraktor

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I manage a tillage farm, my guys wouldnt reckon they work partime... Do i have permission to break out the cat-o nine tails? :pac:

Grueller

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

My opinion on farmers is based entirely on my uncles.

There are five of them who live together in the house they (and my dad) grew up in, at the end of a long windy lane in the back of beyond. The house is like something from a couple of centuries ago. They are in their 60s/70s, and all bachelors, as far as I know none of them has ever had a girlfriend.

They are incredibly stingey and incredibly generous at the same time. They sit down for all their meals together, and share the one teabag between the lot of them. When we visit, they'll give us our own teabags out of courtesy, but you can tell they think it's a crazy extravagance to waste a teabag on just one mug! They are really frugal, their diet is very plain and basic. Their clothes are pure rags, a million years old, ripped to shreds. None of them drink or smoke. But, they buy brand new cars (usually BMWs) every single year. The local dealer loves to see them coming! And they are always buying really expensive top of the range tractors and farm machinery. And they spoil us rotten - any time I visit, I come away several hundred euro richer.

They are very religious, nothing interferes with their Sunday mass. Although I think it's mostly a good opportunity for gossip. They know who owns every bit of land and every animal in all of the south-east of the country! Other than mass, I don't think they have any real social outlet, apart from the ploughing championship every year.

They work crazy hours, very long days. They've all had major health difficulties these last few years, so there's often at least one of them out of action, but the rest of them pick up the slack without complaining. They're all each others best friends, it's actually really nice to see how much they enjoy each others company.

They are GAA obsessed, we're not allowed say a word when the Sunday match is on! My dad's the same actually. (Although he's not a farmer.)

It's not a lifestyle I envy. I've spent time down there helping out with the baling and milking the cows and helping with the calving etc, and the novelty wears off after a couple of weeks. It's just the monotony of it all ... and the dirtiness and smelliness ... and the huge burden of responsibility. I mean they have this massive farm with zillions of cows and loads of crops etc, and they're all getting old and sick and refuse to get in anyone to help them with it ... I don't know what's going to happen when they're too old to do it anymore. I mean they've no children to pass it on to, no one in my family would have any interest in taking it over. It's just sad that they've spent their lives building up this farm, it's obviously working out for them financially, and I guess it'll all end up being sold off to strangers. It's like their whole lives work was for nothing, really. It's sad.

Working out financially now because there are 5 old age pensions at €220ish per week going into the house. They spend nothing and take in €1100 a week before earning a euro. Bet they bought very little machinery and bmw's before the pensions.

FortySeven

freedominacup wrote: »

CAP is around .4% of the EU budget. It is the only government spending wholly administered from Brussels. There is no CHP, CEP, CDP, CSP. Only agriculture is Brussels based. Total government spending in the EU is north of 10,000,000,000,000. 40 billion isn't even walking around money in those terms.

Where are you getting your .4% figure?

Grueller

colin produces wrote: »

Farmers are always:

1: Tight with money.

Do you give away all of yours?

jigglypuffstuff

onrail wrote: »

Folks,

Born and reared a farmer, working in the city a few years but will return to farm the land soon enough. I'm a culchie with notions I suppose.

Anyway, I've been debating with herself, a townie, for a bit about how people 'see' farmers. Looking for honest (i.e. slightly-anonymous) opinion of the general public on farmers in this country. Are we seen as:

1. Grass chewin', turf cuttin', GAA lovin' gob****es who couldn't function outside the bog;
2. Overly pampered, EU subsidised wealthy cute-whoors from the country;
3. Poor enslaved bastards working mental hours for f**k all
4. Normal people. Stop making an issue where there is no issue, you culchie gob****e.
   

Answers on a postcard. Or here I suppose.

Since you asked, its actually secret option Number 5

Annoying b******* who consistently block traffic and make life a pain in the a** for everyone with their tractors

Reggie.

pone2012 wrote: »

Since you asked, its actually secret option Number 5

Annoying b******* who consistently block traffic and make life a pain in the a** for everyone with their tractors

Hiya