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Cyclist assaulted
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All very true. Though not about the bicycles; cars were simply not generally seen as a way to go to work. Living in Dalkey, virtually all the local civil servants, etc, took the Number 8 into town to work. Businesspeople were more likely to drive, but they were the exception. The GPO had a gigantic cycle park in the centre of the building and most people who worked there — the civil servants running the postal service — cycled in, including a succession of Secretaries of the Department, until the 1990s at least.
But the good parts of that lifestyle are still in operation in many countries: if you move to France or Spain you're still likely to find people living that way.
The industrial schools, the TB, the emigration: these came from an arch-Catholic rule that we still haven't shaken off.
Really, that's your metric - Dalkey? How much the population of the country live there - 1%?
I think you'll find TB was down to the cramped and over-crowded living conditions, poor standard of housing and lack of sanitation capacity. And whether they came about by the hand of the state, the church or a combination of both is immaterial - the fact is in 1950s TB was a problem, it isn't now, thankfully (or at least not nearly on the same scale)
And yes, I don't doubt that a middle-class lifestyle centred on Dalkey and taking the tram to work was a fine existence at the time (Hugh Leonard's writings tell us as much, but even he needed a scholarship to go to Pres) but I'd rather fancy that the experience of a tenement dweller in Sean McDermott Street or Henrietta Street wasn't as nice. Or a farm labourer.
And as for France and Spain - that lifestyle is made possible by generous welfare entitlements from the state - it wasn't always thus. I'd imagine if you were a nationalist family in Franco's Spain in the 1950s your prospects and lifestyle were somewhat better that if you were associated with the republicans
Likewise if you were in rural France 10 years after the war and were not a Gaullist, I doubt you had much fun. 0 -
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Jawgap, Dalkey isn't my metric, it's my childhood experience. But the same was true in most places (by "the same" I'm talking about people using buses and bikes to get to work).
No, actually it isn't. Most the country doesn't/didn't live in Dalkey and I can pretty much guarantee you that the experience of farm labourer, a shop worker, a docker, a bank clerk and an unemployed person in 1950s Ireland was not just a world apart from the experience of living in Dalkey but a whole galaxy apart. Even the legendary philanthropy bestowed on Guinness workers pales in comparison to what the modern welfare state (such as it is even in Ireland) bestows on it's citizens.The Church and the State were then hand-in-hand. TB was certainly caused by the State, which — fomented by the Catholic Church — fought tooth-and-nail against vaccination for TB for many years. The Church and the State were hand-in-hand in running the industrial schools and laundries, and in sending poor children 'found begging' to be incarcerated there through the courts.
Again, regardless of who 'caused' it, exacerbated it, or failed to implement an effective immunisation programme, the fact remains TB was rampant in 1950s Ireland (Dalkey excluded) thus undermining the idea that it was a 'more civilised time' - as you stated earlier.
And while we're wandering off the the cycling topic - this 'civilised time' also pretty much excluded married women from the workforce. I'm sure women would just love to go back to a 'civilised time' when marriage meant the end of a career, but they could pledge their husband's creditWe are so used to Ireland that we forget that what would in other countries be seen as a centre-right party is here perceived as centrist; what would in other countries be seen as a centre-left party is seen here as far left. Apart from the righist ex-communist countries that Britain ladled into the European Union, swinging the EU to the right, our country is now probably one of the furthest to the right in the EU.
You mistake me, my dear. I'm not saying the 1950s were a delightful time. I'm saying that by correctly throwing the filthy cruel practices of those times out, we have also thrown out some good things — being able to shop locally, a cycling and public transport centred society, more sensible work hours.
No, you are not saying they were 'delightful' you are saying they were 'more civilised' - I live in a semi-rural location, I can still shop locally (and do, especially in my LBS) - public transport is a joke (not everyone can live on the DART or old Harcourt Street Line) as it always has been outside the cities, even in the more civilised times.
And we haven't thrown anything out - if a business fails to adapt, then thanks to our financial liberation the market punishes it. People now have choices they didn't in the more civilised 1950s - we're not shackled to the local economy bound to take only what we can reach on a bike or by bus.
The shops in the village near where I live have adapted - we've even seen a few added over the years (including a Tesco, which actually didn't put the local butchers out of business it allowed him to expand, and a dressmakers, a pharmacy, a dentists surgery and an art/crafts shop).
As I said, we've never been healthier, wealthier or safer.0 -
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dermabrasion wrote: »This street is a disaster: one that Dublin planning engineers can be very, very, vey proud off:
1.It is the end of the grand canal cycle lane, so going south to north, you go down this street vice versa for people going south up the canal. It can be chaotic at rush hour
2. The cycle lane merges with the footpath anyway, abruptly. Cyclists are dumped onto a t-junction.
3. It is a cut-de-sac. Lots of taxis and vans doing 3-point turns after drop offs. The north side of the bridge are ware-house distribution businesses and an office tower, so lots of articulated trucks and vans parked all over the place or turning.
4. It is cobbled. I like the cobbles, but they are a disaster when wet. I think some of the novice commuters avoid the cobbles and take to the footpaths
5. There is an hour-glasseffect under the railway bridge where pedestrians mix with cyclists.
So, despite Garlic's trolling, this was inevitable due to poor design. It probably will not be the only incident along here. Works both ways. cyclist may thump taxi driver.
Late to spot this thread- seems to have gone way OT! I had read about the incident but hadn't clocked where it happened. The road in question is the only part of my commute that I absoloutley hate. Most of my commute is the Grand Canal cycle path which IMHO is a joy (well apart from the Leeson Bridge junction). Then I hit Clanwilliam Terrace/Grand Canal Quay- the cycle-path exit is terrible, it actually has 2 different exit points onto the road. The cobbles are quite literally a PITA & I have broken a set of mudguards & 2x water bottle cages due to regularly riding on them. For a while I decided to cycle on the footpath, which I would not do anywhere else, however I became too self-conscious re: pedestrians & am back on the feckin cobbles again. Can they not do something about this so-called cycle route?
On a separate note, I remember when the aforementioned building works were being carried out just past the bridge & I couldn't believe the Contractors got away with closing a footpath & a road for so long. However I also couldn't believe it when I saw many cyclists cycle past a "Cyclists dismount" sign onto the extremely narrow railed footpath (incl. a bin obstruction) & casually brush past pedestrians. I am presuming this is where & when this incident occurred. The pedestrian's actions were totally indefensible but I can imagine how the scenario unfolded.0 -
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Clanwilliam Terrace is preposterous. It's part of a flagship dedicated cycling facility, and it's surface with cobbles or setts or whatever they're called. Why not have the next section covered in baby oil, and the one after skirting a sheer precipice?
I think the city council, in their esteemed wisdom, wanted all cyclists to have the Paris Roubaix experience. If you want a bit of the pavé experience it saves having to travel
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