Children in the front seat of a car!

sunny2004

I might need to put my daughter in the front seat of my car, she is 9.

Now I have looked online and find the information either confusion or out of date.

Does anyne know if it's legal to put a 9yr old in the front seat with the appropriate booster seat ?

Thanks.

Dundalkian

Completely illegal. Horrible to even think of. If you get caught you risk losing your car, license, or even worse, YOUR CHILD !!!

ted1

Dundalkian wrote: »

Completely illegal. Horrible to even think of. If you get caught you risk losing your car, license, or even worse, YOUR CHILD !!!

Dramtise much ?

sunny2004

I'm asking if it is legal, lol.

Big Bag of Chips

Yes. It is legal. Once they are in an appropriate carseat/booster.

From the RSA.ie

If you are fitting a forward-facing child seat in the front of a car, make sure the car seat is as far
back as it will go, so the child is as far as possible from the dashboard. This reduces the possibility
of head or chest injuries in a crash.

ted1

Dundalkian wrote: »

Completely illegal. Horrible to even think of. If you get caught you risk losing your car, license, or even worse, YOUR CHILD !!!

At what stage did you decide you know the law?
Because your completely wrong , and the front may actually be safer.

http://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/driving-advice/child-safety/seat-belt-and-child-restraint-law.aspx

Dundalkian

I was joking. I think theres a height limit but the chances of being stopped by the gardaí cause of it are extremely slim and i doubt they would do anything more than tell you not to do it again.

ted1

Dundalkian wrote: »

I was joking. I think theres a height limit but the chances of being stopped by the gardaí cause of it are extremely slim and i doubt they would do anything more than tell you not to do it again.

No you weren't .

CiniO

sunny2004 wrote: »

I might need to put my daughter in the front seat of my car, she is 9.

Now I have looked online and find the information either confusion or out of date.

Does anyne know if it's legal to put a 9yr old in the front seat with the appropriate booster seat ?

Thanks.

You can put your child in front seat the same as in the rear seat...

Only thing to remember, is that if your child is in rear facing seat, then passenger airbag must be disabled.
If you car has no option of disabling it, you can't legally carry a child in rear facing seat on front seat.
But it doesn't obviously apply to your 9 year old daughter.

CiniO

Dundalkian wrote: »

I was joking. I think theres a height limit but the chances of being stopped by the gardaí cause of it are extremely slim and i doubt they would do anything more than tell you not to do it again.

Can you enlighten us about this height limit you think there is?

Atlantic Dawn

I did see someone today allowing their kid to put their feet up on the dashboard directly over the passenger airbag inflator while beginning a drive on the motorway, the mind boggles as to how super thick a person could be.

CiniO

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I did see someone today allowing their kid to put their feet up on the dashboard directly over the passenger airbag inflator while beginning a drive on the motorway, the mind boggles as to how super thick a person could be.

It's not just kids... I see passengers having their feet on dashboard (right on the airbag) fairly often.... People are just silly.
I'd say most don't even understand the consequences, including drivers allowing kids to do it.

trixychic

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I did see someone today allowing their kid to put their feet up on the dashboard directly over the passenger airbag inflator while beginning a drive on the motorway, the mind boggles as to how super thick a person could be.

Oh my God I always put my feet up. It has never even occured to me about the airbag. And I'm always telling others off for being unsafe in cars. Like seat belts under the arm. Christ!!! No more of that for me.

As for the child in the front I have a 7 yr old and there has been times I've had no choice but to use the front seat for him. He does be in his booster seat (appropriate for his age as according to RSA) and I adjust the seat for him. Seatbelt height, straighten the back, chair pushed the whole way back and headrest the whole way down. It's not illegal providing that there is no safer situation.

So long as they can sit at a height that the seat belt fits correctly and you push the seat back, then yes, it's grand , quite legal.

sunny2004

trixychic wrote: »

It's not illegal providing that there is no safer situation.

Thanks for the reply, but I do not understand this statement regarding the law ?

Keane2baMused

sunny2004 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, but I do not understand this statement regarding the law ?

If there is appropriate, available and safe seating in the back of the vehicle this is where the child should be seated first and foremost.

If not the front passenger in a booster is the next alternative.

ted1

sunny2004 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, but I do not understand this statement regarding the law ?

She's talking rubbish , the law is clear cut it either is legal or it's not , there's no second best.
In the link I provided it states the law. Basically the kid needs a relevant rated car seat. If it's rear facing turn off the air bag

Big Bag of Chips

sunny2004 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, but I do not understand this statement regarding the law ?

It's not illegal.

It's not illegal to put them in the front, even if the back seat is empty.

According to the RSA it's safer for a child to be in the back of possible, but if not possible it is perfectly legal (and safe if in a properly adjusted booster etc) to put them in the front

ted1

Keane2baMused wrote: »

If there is appropriate, available and safe seating in the back of the vehicle this is where the child should be seated first and foremost.

If not the front passenger in a booster is the next alternative.

Not true , the law doesn't state this , a child in the back can be more distracting than a child in the front. I know our young fellow goes mad and distracts the wife if he is in the back and can't see her, so it's safer for him to be in the front as he is not distracting her and happy to sit there

Keane2baMused

ted1 wrote: »

Not true , the law doesn't state this , a child in the back can be more distracting than a child in the front. I know our young fellow goes mad and distracts the wife if he is in the back and can't see her, so it's safer for him to be in the front as he is not distracting her and happy to sit there

Note the words appropriate and safe. This doesn't apply in your case obviously.

Guy:Incognito

trixychic wrote: »

Oh my God I always put my feet up. It has never even occured to me about the airbag. And I'm always telling others off for being unsafe in cars. Like seat belts under the arm. Christ!!! No more of that for me.

As for the child in the front I have a 7 yr old and there has been times I've had no choice but to use the front seat for him. He does be in his booster seat (appropriate for his age as according to RSA) and I adjust the seat for him. Seatbelt height, straighten the back, chair pushed the whole way back and headrest the whole way down. It's not illegal providing that there is no safer situation.

I'd cut your legs off if you put them on the dash of my car. It's got nothing to do with your safety in a crash either.


I've a 2 seater. Can't imagine telling either of my kids they've to get in the boot.........

Big Bag of Chips

It is a traffic offense to have a child in the back seat not appropriately restrained, same as it is an offense to have them in the front not appropriately restrained. (On the spot fine, and 2 penalty points, I think)

It is not a traffic offense to have a child appropriately restrained in either the front or the back.

It is safe to carry them in the front once they are appropriately restrained.
It is safer for them to be in the back appropriately restrained.

my friend

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I did see someone today allowing their kid to put their feet up on the dashboard directly over the passenger airbag inflator while beginning a drive on the motorway, the mind boggles as to how super thick a person could be.

Reminds me of this...

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/young-woman-broke-every-bone-in-face-after-putting-feet-on-dashboard-before-crash-31063467.html

''A woman who "broke every bone in my face" in a car crash has warned others of the dangers of leaving their feet on the dashboard.....

When the airbag released with the impact of the crash, Grainne's legs were thrust back into her face at a velocity of 320kmph.

"It was there that I had my big operation that lasted over 10 hours, It involved three teams of surgeons putting my face back together with metal sheets and bolts," she said''

trixychic

Keane2baMused wrote: »

If there is appropriate, available and safe seating in the back of the vehicle this is where the child should be seated first and foremost.

If not the front passenger in a booster is the next alternative.

This exactly. If I for any reason end up having to bring 3 kids home from school instead of my usual 2 (has happened before in emergency situation) I will put my eldest in the front. (He's tall for his age so seems the right choice). I only have 2 proper seatbelts in the back. The middle one only goes across the waist. The front seatbelt is more secure so I use it.

There is no way id use it unless I had to. Back is always first choice.

sunny2004

trixychic wrote: »

This exactly. If I for any reason end up having to bring 3 kids home from school instead of my usual 2 (has happened before in emergency situation) I will put my eldest in the front. (He's tall for his age so seems the right choice). I only have 2 proper seatbelts in the back. The middle one only goes across the waist. The front seatbelt is more secure so I use it.

There is no way id use it unless I had to. Back is always first choice.

Thanks but I'm interested in the legal situation.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

Jaysis, I remember 7 of us packed into a car getting a lift to a match. Two in the front passenger seat, 4 in the back, and the smallest lad up behind the back headrests...

Wibbs

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'd cut your legs off if you put them on the dash of my car. It's got nothing to do with your safety in a crash either.

Damn straight. And the only airbag in my car sits in the drivers seat. I've encountered this before mind you. Eh it's called a footwell for a reason luv. Use it or walk. I can certainly see some scenarios where feet may end up on the dash, or the headlining, but that's either in the immediate aftermath of a crash, or things got sexy. Otherwise eh no.

I've a 2 seater. Can't imagine telling either of my kids they've to get in the boot.........

Or god forbid you've more than two or three kids on the go.

savagethegoat

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

Jaysis, I remember 7 of us packed into a car getting a lift to a match. Two in the front passenger seat, 4 in the back, and the smallest lad up behind the back headrests...

back in the day we used to drive all the way to the UK with 5 in the back and no rear seat belts fitted. how things change!

biko

CiniO wrote: »

Can you enlighten us about this height limit you think there is?

It's 150 cm, but this only refers to when the child don't need a booster seat.

biko

sunny2004 wrote: »

Thanks but I'm interested in the legal situation.

I googled it for you:

There is no law against children sitting in the front seat, as long as they are using the right child restraint for their height and weight.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/No-Child-Car-Seat---No-Excuse/The-Law/

Welcome

SCOOP 64

The amount of ford transits going round with the mother in front holding the baby in her arms, unbelievable, some are untouchable.

GM228

biko wrote: »

It's 150 cm, but this only refers to when the child don't need a booster seat.

It's not less than 1.35m (135cm), was changed several years ago.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/users/children/index_en.htm

Under EU law, seat belts must be used in all vehicles. Children over 1.35 m can use an adult seat belt.

Those under 1.35 m must use equipment appropriate to their size and weight when travelling in cars or lorries.

biko wrote: »

I googled it for you:

There is no law against children sitting in the front seat, as long as they are using the right child restraint for their height and weight.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/No-Child-Car-Seat---No-Excuse/The-Law/

Welcome

Despite what Google or the RSA say there is a law about children in front seats although it's just in relation to vehicles with no safety systems.

Under EU law (Directive 2003/20/EC) a child over age 3 and under 150cm height can't legally be in a front seat.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32003L0020

without prejudice to point (ii), children aged three and over and less than 150 cm in height shall occupy a seat other than a front seat;

Atlantic Dawn

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

The amount of ford transits going round with the mother in front holding the baby in her arms, unbelievable, some are untouchable.

It's their culture so to speak :pac:

ted1

GM228 wrote: »

It's not less than 1.35m (135cm), was changed several years ago.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/users/children/index_en.htm




Despite what Google or the RSA say there is a law about children in front seats although it's just in relation to vehicles with no safety systems.

Under EU law (Directive 2003/20/EC) a child over age 3 and under 150cm height can't legally be in a front seat.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32003L0020

EU Directives are not law, they are simply directives that should be written into law.

What makes you think a directive is a law?

There's so much rubbish and BS behind spread here. Folks if you don't know the law , stop giving answers that you think is law.

ted1

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Note the words appropriate and safe. This doesn't apply in your case obviously.

She's looking for the law, not your personal opinion.

RustyNut

savagethegoat wrote: »

back in the day we used to drive all the way to the UK with 5 in the back and no rear seat belts fitted. how things change!

When I was a kid the safety restraint system consisted of the oul lad reaching across the bench seat of the vauxhall victor with his left arm when ever he had to hit the brakes a bit harder than usual, might have been 4 or 5 kids on the front seat to avoid the who's sitting in the front fight. It was a regular occurrence for one or more of us to face plant into the (not laminated) windscreen or end up in a heap in the footwell.

Good times,Good times.....

trixychic

sunny2004 wrote: »

Thanks but I'm interested in the legal situation.

You've already had plenty of people showing links and quotes to the Irish law on this. What else are you looking for??

GM228

ted1 wrote: »

EU Directives are not law, they are simply directives that should be written into law.

What makes you think a directive is a law?

There's so much rubbish and BS behind spread here. Folks if you don't know the law , stop giving answers that you think is law.

Rubbish and BS?

A directive is an EU legislative act, and a directive is classed as a form of secondary EU Law.

And it's not a case that they "should" be written into national law, they "must" be unless there is a derogation etc.

Emmadilema123

Dundalkian wrote: »

I was joking. I think theres a height limit but the chances of being stopped by the gardaí cause of it are extremely slim and i doubt they would do anything more than tell you not to do it again.

The booster addresses the height issue.

ted1

GM228 wrote: »

A directive is an EU legislative act, and a directive is classed as a form of secondary EU Law. It's generally referred to as "EU Law" by the EU!

And it's not a case that they "should" be written into national law, they "must" be unless there is a derogation etc.

Just because they must doesn't mean they are.
You can call it EU law if you want but unless it's written to Irish law you are not breaking the law

trixychic

GM228 wrote: »

Rubbish and BS?

A directive is an EU legislative act, and a directive is classed as a form of secondary EU Law.

And it's not a case that they "should" be written into national law, they "must" be unless there is a derogation etc.

I thought EU directives were suggestions. Not all of their directives are put into Irish law.

GM228

ted1 wrote: »

Just because they must doesn't mean they are.
You can call it EU law if you want but unless it's written to Irish law you are not breaking the law

Who mentioned breaking Irish law?

It's not that I'm calling it EU Law, it is EU Law, that's what it is called!

The EU Directive is backed up by Irish legislation by the way.

GM228

trixychic wrote: »

I thought EU directives were suggestions. Not all of their directives are put into Irish law.

No you are thinking of EU Recommendations, not all directives are put into law only when there are specific exemptions, timeframes for implementation or an opt-out, and an opt-out can apply only to certain categories of directives.

okonomiyaki

sunny2004 wrote: »

I might need to put my daughter in the front seat of my car, she is 9.

Now I have looked online and find the information either confusion or out of date.

Does anyne know if it's legal to put a 9yr old in the front seat with the appropriate booster seat ?

Thanks.

I phoned the Gardai about this a few years ago on behalf of someone who was quite upset after being told off by some random person for doing it. Apparently once the child is in an appropriate car seat for their height and weight, it is legal for a child to sit in the front.

Boosters arent really that safe though, i think they are going to ban them eventually. A few countries already have. Children should be in High Backed Boosters until they are the right height for the seat belt in the car. The amount of kids who sit in a booster at 4 years old and have the belt touching their chin or put it under their arm is just crazy. I cant believe the things i see sometimes. A simple booster doesnt cut it, but it will take a while before culture changes on that one.

A lot of people here are saying that kids are safer in the back. This isnt always the case. For example, (though not relevant to your 9 year old) children are 5 times safer rear facing than forward facing. So a rear facing seat in the front (with airbag off) is 5 times safer than a forward facing seat in the back. A lot of car seats now are coming out that can hold a child rear facing until 5 or 6 years old.

Emmadilema123

okonomiyaki wrote: »

I phoned the Gardai about this a few years ago on behalf of someone who was quite upset after being told off by some random person for doing it. Apparently once the child is in an appropriate car seat for their height and weight, it is legal for a child to sit in the front.

Boosters arent really that safe though, i think they are going to ban them eventually. A few countries already have. Children should be in High Backed Boosters until they are the right height for the seat belt in the car. The amount of kids who sit in a booster at 4 years old and have the belt touching their chin or put it under their arm is just crazy. I cant believe the things i see sometimes. A simple booster doesnt cut it, but it will take a while before culture changes on that one.

A lot of people here are saying that kids are safer in the back. This isnt always the case. For example, (though not relevant to your 9 year old) children are 5 times safer rear facing than forward facing. So a rear facing seat in the front (with airbag off) is 5 times safer than a forward facing seat in the back. A lot of car seats now are coming out that can hold a child rear facing until 5 or 6 years old.

My own car seat is in 2 parts. I have never used it with just the booster and j ever will. I don't see any advantage of taking away the high back. It doesn't make any more room in the car. It seems strange that ppl would use only the booster if they have the 2 parts especially considering the high back has side impact protection.

trixychic

Oh for God sake. This is Irish law we are talking about.

In the RSA website on page stating its "THE LAW"!!!! it clearly states

"There is no law against children sitting in the front seat, as long as they are using the right child restraint for their height and weight."

And here's the link.
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/No-Child-Car-Seat---No-Excuse/The-Law/

Seriously what more is needed????

GM228

trixychic wrote: »

Oh for God sake. This is Irish law we are talking about.

In the RSA website on page stating its "THE LAW"!!!! it clearly states

"There is no law against children sitting in the front seat, as long as they are using the right child restraint for their height and weight."

And here's the link.
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/No-Child-Car-Seat---No-Excuse/The-Law/

Seriously what more is needed????

And when was it last updated I wonder?

I am talking about Irish law, the RSA guide is incorrect.

In 2014 the revevant 2006 Irish Law was amended to comply with the EU Directive which for example lowered the 150cm height and provided the fromt seat law for vehicles with no safety systems which I mentioned earlier.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/380/made/en/print

Appropriate child restraint is now as per EU Law!

Big Bag of Chips

okonomiyaki wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying that kids are safer in the back. This isnt always the case. For example, (though not relevant to your 9 year old) children are 5 times safer rear facing than forward facing. So a rear facing seat in the front (with airbag off) is 5 times safer than a forward facing seat in the back.

Sure you could go through all the various permutations then if you like..

Rear facing in the front v Rear facing in the back
Forward facing in the front v Rear facing in the back
Unrestrained in the back v Restrained in the front
Seat properly installed in the front v Incorrectly installed in the back

Etc etc etc etc etc

None of it makes any difference to the question the OP asked. It is not illegal for a child of any age, shape, size, weight, height to be carried in the front seat of a car once they are in an appropriate car seat/booster/high back booster/restraint.

ted1

GM228 wrote: »

Who mentioned breaking Irish law?

It's not that I'm calling it EU Law, it is EU Law, that's what it is called!

The EU Directive is backed up by Irish legislation by the way.

And with regards the specific topic , please do reference the relative S.I

ted1

Emmadilema123 wrote: »

My own car seat is in 2 parts. I have never used it with just the booster and j ever will. I don't see any advantage of taking away the high back. It doesn't make any more room in the car. It seems strange that ppl would use only the booster if they have the 2 parts especially considering the high back has side impact protection.

And if they do , they never use seatbelt tensioner that is supplied

ted1

GM228 wrote: »

And when was it last updated I wonder?

I am talking about Irish law, the RSA guide is incorrect.

In 2014 the revevant 2006 Irish Law was amended to comply with the EU Directive which for example lowered the 150cm height and provided the fromt seat law for vehicles with no safety systems which I mentioned earlier.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/380/made/en/print

Appropriate child restraint is now as per EU Law!

You said that it's illegal for a child over 3 and under 150 be in the front. You have not yet provided any fact to back up you claim. We all acknowledge that they need to be in appropriate car seats.