Politics and prayer

realitykeeper

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm wearing 2 types of yarn spun together .... the humanity.

The Jews and the Zoroastrians believe in keeping things Kosher i.e. separate. The practice is related to the necessity to identify and keep separate good from evil. It is good to think like this when faced with moral dilemma`s. Blurring the lines is the work of the devil.

L1011

realitykeeper wrote: »

The Jews and the Zoroastrians believe in keeping things Kosher i.e. separate. The practice is related to the necessity to identify and keep separate good from evil. It is good to think like this when faced with moral dilemma`s. Blurring the lines is the work of the devil.

So wearing two types of yarn spun is the work of the devil?

Where exactly do you buy your clothes?

uck51js9zml2yt

hju6 wrote: »

I'm an atheist and try to conduct my life around

'do no harm'

Believers in the various 'sky fairies' could do a lot better if they adopted the same attitude .

Seems like a lot of atheists believe in sky fairies which I find intriguing. Can you prove their existence?

realitykeeper

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Prayer to whom?

How would this "inspire" people of no faith?

I am referring to a short but inspirational speech a bit like a barristers summation but built into a prayer for the faithful with deference to those of the non Christian and atheist persuasions.

L1011

realitykeeper wrote: »

I am referring to a short but inspirational speech a bit like a barristers summation but built into a prayer for the faithful with deference to those of the non Christian and atheist persuasions.

Which would inspire people how, exactly?

I would never be inspired by a throwaway "deference" in a prayer. I would be highly insulted by its presence, actually. If you want to pray to something you believe in, fine - do not dare involve me.

For Reals

#MOD NOTE#
Thread moved to World Religion.
Please read the forum charter at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057568762.

looksee

realitykeeper wrote: »

I am referring to a short but inspirational speech a bit like a barristers summation but built into a prayer for the faithful with deference to those of the non Christian and atheist persuasions.

Oh you mean an uninterruptible and non-contestable party political broadcast?

fran17

Zaph wrote: »

If you're going to come out with sh*te like that and tell me that I have no proper sense of what is morally or socially acceptable, I'm going to have to ask you to produce proper evidence for your statement or retract it.

A correlation is not a causation,it is an association.There is a correlation between atheism and decadence but that is not to say that all atheists are decadent.Similarly there is a correlation between the Irish and alcoholism but that's not to say all Irish are,or will become,alcoholics.

fran17

L1011 wrote: »

Can you prove that statement? Again, reputable source

Making stuff up is lying in pretty much everyone's moral code, and that is what you are doing. Either provide some proof or stop.

There is nothing "self-defeating" in demanding someone show their cards. It appears you are lying on a massive scale - you have the option to provide proof of your statements or let it become obvious that you are lying. Which I'm sure breaks the moral code of whichever religion you are a member of.

To continue quoting Dahmer's atheistic logic regarding his depravity:"I always believed the theory of evolution as truth,that we all just came from the slime.When we died,you know,that was it,there was nothing"
A man clearly lacking objective morality.

Zaph

fran17 wrote: »

A correlation is not a causation,it is an association.There is a correlation between atheism and decadence but that is not to say that all atheists are decadent.Similarly there is a correlation between the Irish and alcoholism but that's not to say all Irish are,or will become,alcoholics.

You can come up with all the semantics you like, but you stated the following:

fran17 wrote: »

All studies will conclude that an atheists sense of what is socially/morally acceptable is dangerously skewed.

I asked you to show me evidence of these "studies" or to retract your statement. You have so far failed to do either.

Satriale

fran17 wrote: »

To continue quoting Dahmer's atheistic logic regarding his depravity:"I always believed the theory of evolution as truth,that we all just came from the slime.When we died,you know,that was it,there was nothing"
A man clearly lacking objective morality.

”Some months I've tried to keep this thing from happening. But I now see it's the will--it's the will of Sovereign Being that this happen to us. That we lay down our lives to protest against what's being done".

"Please. For God's sake, let's get on with it. We've lived--we've lived as no other people lived and loved. We've had as much of this world as you're gonna get. Let's just be done with it. Let's be done with the agony of it."

"Let's make our peace. And those who had a right to go, and they had a right to--How many are dead? Aw, God Almighty, God."


Since your fond of quoting serial killers, there are a few more for your collection. That's the Reverend Jim Jones as he persuaded 605 people to poison themselves and their 304 children with cyanide.


Jonestown Nsfw

fran17

Zaph wrote: »

You can come up with all the semantics you like, but you stated the following:



I asked you to show me evidence of these "studies" or to retract your statement. You have so far failed to do either.

Fair enough,I may have slightly over generalised there.Apologies if it was construed as personal.I did clarify however.

fran17

Satriale wrote: »

”Some months I've tried to keep this thing from happening. But I now see it's the will--it's the will of Sovereign Being that this happen to us. That we lay down our lives to protest against what's being done".

"Please. For God's sake, let's get on with it. We've lived--we've lived as no other people lived and loved. We've had as much of this world as you're gonna get. Let's just be done with it. Let's be done with the agony of it."

"Let's make our peace. And those who had a right to go, and they had a right to--How many are dead? Aw, God Almighty, God."


Since your fond of quoting serial killers, there are a few more for your collection. That's the Reverend Jim Jones as he persuaded 605 people to poison themselves and their 304 children with cyanide.


Jonestown Nsfw

Jim Jones was a communist who lived by the ideals of Stalin,Mao,Marx etc.Communism has been the host for the spread of atheism for the past hundred years.Jim Jones as a religious man? Pull the other one.

Timberrrrrrrr

fran17 wrote: »

Jim Jones was a communist who lived by the ideals of Stalin,Mao,Marx etc.Communism has been the host for the spread of atheism for the past hundred years.Jim Jones as a religious man? Pull the other one.

The Worlds Most Prolific Serial Killers are Devout Christians ~ Coincidence, or Men of Perfect Faith?


http://king-dave.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/03/8623068-answered-prayers-the-worlds-most-prolific-serial-killers-are-devout-christians-coincidence-or-men-of-perfect-faith

Satriale

fran17 wrote: »

Jim Jones was a communist who lived by the ideals of Stalin,Mao,Marx etc.Communism has been the host for the spread of atheism for the past hundred years.Jim Jones as a religious man? Pull the other one.

Jim Jones was a nutter, same as Dahmer.

Setting aside Jones himself, what about his 605 faithful followers that killed 304 innocent children with cyanide laced pop. No atheists there.

Zaph

fran17 wrote: »

Fair enough,I may have slightly over generalised there.Apologies if it was construed as personal.I did clarify however.

I wasn't construing it as personal, you made a sweeping generalisation that you said was supported by studies. I'd like to see evidence of these studies or for you to retract your statement. As I've already said, so far you've done neither.

fran17

Satriale wrote: »

Jim Jones was a nutter, same as Dahmer.

Setting aside Jones himself, what about his 605 faithful followers that killed 304 innocent children with cyanide laced pop. No atheists there.

There was also a number of children who's lives were aborted because of Jim Jones,I would also add those to the figures.

fran17

Zaph wrote: »

I wasn't construing it as personal, you made a sweeping generalisation that you said was supported by studies. I'd like to see evidence of these studies or for you to retract your statement. As I've already said, so far you've done neither.

And as I've already said I have clarified it.However here is a study conducted in the US covering a large demographic concerning a wide range of moral topics:

http://www.jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/06/atheists-more-likely-than-theists-to-do-morally-bad-activities/

I'll await your dismissal on the grounds of it being a Christian source but oddly enough I'm failing to find an atheist source and the irreligious nature of the online media is quite the hindrance.

Its dead Jim

fran17 wrote: »

And as I've already said I have clarified it.However here is a study conducted in the US covering a large demographic concerning a wide range of moral topics:

http://www.jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/06/atheists-more-likely-than-theists-to-do-morally-bad-activities/

I'll await your dismissal on the grounds of it being a Christian source but oddly enough I'm failing to find an atheist source and the irreligious nature of the online media is quite the hindrance.

atheists and agnostics in America were more likely than theists to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal drug use, excessive drinking, sexual relationships outside of marriage, abortion, cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage, obscene language, gambling, pornography and obscene sexual behaviour, and engaging in homosexuality/bisexuality.

Atheists and agnostics less likely to be homophobic shocker.

There isn't even a working link to the study. The title says it is stuff atheists and agnostics do while the questions ask for opinions. Not exactly a great start.

Satriale

fran17 wrote: »

And as I've already said I have clarified it.However here is a study conducted in the US covering a large demographic concerning a wide range of moral topics:

http://www.jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/06/atheists-more-likely-than-theists-to-do-morally-bad-activities/

I'll await your dismissal on the grounds of it being a Christian source but oddly enough I'm failing to find an atheist source and the irreligious nature of the online media is quite the hindrance.

That's fairly ridiculous, i dont care whether it's a christian source or not, but "cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage" "sexual relationships outside of marriage" ?

You do realise that you wouldnt even be here if people didnt have sex outside marriage? 99.999% of sex since we descended from the trees has been outside marriage. Nothing moral or immoral about it.



What you think of this fine Christian lady Helen Ukpabio?

I saw a Dispatches documentary about her a few years ago, it broke my immoral Atheist heart see that child beaten as a witch.

The NYtimes says:

So well-known, in fact, that Ms. Ukpabio’s critics say her teachings have contributed to the torture or abandonment of thousands of Nigerian children — including infants and toddlers — suspected of being witches and warlocks. Her culpability is a central contention of “Saving Africa’s Witch Children,” a documentary that will make its American debut Wednesday on HBO2.



This is how you know a witch arccording to her:

"Under the age of two, the child screams at night, cries, is always feverish suddenly deteriorates in health, puts up an attitude of fear, and may not feed very well"


Sound familiar?

Zaph

fran17 wrote: »

And as I've already said I have clarified it.However here is a study conducted in the US covering a large demographic concerning a wide range of moral topics:

http://www.jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/06/atheists-more-likely-than-theists-to-do-morally-bad-activities/

I'll await your dismissal on the grounds of it being a Christian source but oddly enough I'm failing to find an atheist source and the irreligious nature of the online media is quite the hindrance.

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss it on the grounds that it's a Christian source. However I would dismiss it on the grounds that none of the things quoted by Its dead Jim above would be socially or morally unacceptable, with perhaps the exception of abortion, which is a much less easily defined topic for many people. But certainly engaging in any of the other activities doesn't make you a bad person.

fran17

Satriale wrote: »

That's fairly ridiculous, i dont care whether it's a christian source or not, but "cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage" "sexual relationships outside of marriage" ?

You do realise that you wouldnt even be here if people didnt have sex outside marriage? 99.999% of sex since we descended from the trees has been outside marriage. Nothing moral or immoral about it.



What you think of this fine Christian lady Helen Ukpabio?

I saw a Dispatches documentary about her a few years ago, it broke my immoral Atheist heart see that child beaten as a witch.

The NYtimes says:

So well-known, in fact, that Ms. Ukpabio’s critics say her teachings have contributed to the torture or abandonment of thousands of Nigerian children — including infants and toddlers — suspected of being witches and warlocks. Her culpability is a central contention of “Saving Africa’s Witch Children,” a documentary that will make its American debut Wednesday on HBO2.



This is how you know a witch arccording to her:

"Under the age of two, the child screams at night, cries, is always feverish suddenly deteriorates in health, puts up an attitude of fear, and may not feed very well"


Sound familiar?

And a large minority of Africans believe in the healing powers of Albino bones.We could spend the next few pages derailing the thread with the introduction of obscure individuals but it's counter productive.

Satriale

fran17 wrote: »

And a large minority of Africans believe in the healing powers of Albino bones.We could spend the next few pages derailing the thread with the introduction of obscure individuals but it's counter productive.

Dont a large amount of Christians believe cannibalism brings you closer to Jesus? not to mention the thousands of stalwart Irish christians who followed that French ladies bones around Dublin a few years ago.

You're the one comparing us atheists to a serial killer, we can't point out that some of your fellow soldiers of Christ are pure evil? Btw, that lady might be obscure in your small world but she has the ear of millions of "devout" Christians in Africa.

Timberrrrrrrr

fran17 wrote: »

And a large minority of Africans believe in the healing powers of Albino bones.We could spend the next few pages derailing the thread with the introduction of obscure individuals but it's counter productive.

Sure catholics love their auld relics

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/st-anthony-s-relics-to-go-on-tour-across-ireland-1.2649670

When his relics were brought to Ireland in 2013, as many as 30,000 people venerated them at Galway Cathedral over a period of several hours.

Satriale

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sure catholics love their auld relics

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/st-anthony-s-relics-to-go-on-tour-across-ireland-1.2649670

Ever see Oliver Plunketts head mounted in that church in Drogheda, nothing odd about that whatsoever!!! :eek:. I was taken to see it on a school tour, when I was a child! Well, I suppose it was better than being burnt as a witch.

fran17

Satriale wrote: »

Dont a large amount of Christians believe cannibalism brings you closer to Jesus? not to mention the thousands of stalwart Irish christians who followed that French ladies bones around Dublin a few years ago.

You're the one comparing us atheists to a serial killer, we can't point out that some of your fellow soldiers of Christ are pure evil? Btw, that lady might be obscure in your small world but she has the ear of millions of "devout" Christians in Africa.

Your purposefully derailing the thread again.Nobody,even an atheist,can deny that atheism and communism are intrinsically linked.This ideology of the denial of good and evil and lack of objective morality has resulted in the genocide of hundreds of millions in the 20th century.

Timberrrrrrrr

fran17 wrote: »

Your purposefully derailing the thread again.Nobody,even an atheist,can deny that atheism and communism are intrinsically linked.This ideology of the denial of good and evil and lack of objective morality has resulted in the genocide of hundreds of millions in the 20th century.

So are all atheists suffering from this malady or is it only some?

realitykeeper

looksee wrote: »

Oh you mean an uninterruptible and non-contestable party political broadcast?

Uninterruptible yes but the others would get their turn in following sittings. A speech framed in a prayer, in which idealists use passion and persuasion to win over those of opposite ideologies. Persuasion is of course more important than merely exhibiting passion. Persons of opposing ideologies could only be won by an oratory that is exceptionally compelling and considered.

realitykeeper

L1011 wrote: »

Which would inspire people how, exactly?

I would never be inspired by a throwaway "deference" in a prayer. I would be highly insulted by its presence, actually. If you want to pray to something you believe in, fine - do not dare involve me.

The purpose of deferring to you is not to inspire you but to acknowledge your presence as a non believer. The purpose of the speech is to inspire. Framing the speech in a prayer need not detract from the picture.

realitykeeper

fran17 wrote: »

We could spend the next few pages derailing the thread with the introduction of obscure individuals but it's counter productive.

Indeed. Here is an example of a political prayer meeting in Africa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w3PH21pqIg