Black Lives Matter protest in Dublin

lazybones32

unseenfootage wrote: »

Actually many people consider the Irish to be dumb and drunk.

They used to call the Irish white ****.

They considered this to be fact.

English Caller Is Sick Of "Stupid Drunk Irish Morons"!!

http://www.98fm.com/podcasts/Dublin_Talks/98FM39s_Dublin_Talks/46997/

We were known as the **** of Europe, according to some.

Zxclnic wrote: »

It's not what's going to 'fall down', it's what's going to go up.
A stupid wall for starters!

lol! Mr. Obama (who is the first Nobel Peace prize winner to launch missiles at a Nation and was awarded the honour solely for being black) couldn't even close Gitmo Bay Prison, despite it being an election promise, but you seriously think a f*ckin' wall is going to be built between USA and Mexico?!

A PotUS cannot do as he pleases.

darkpagandeath

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

In this bloody heat? No hope...

But it's a dry heat...




May not be true

Eowyn221

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Everyone sleep tight knowing that you all have black genes inside you no matter how minute.

Is this supposed to be some kind of "intellectual" sado-masochism or a "f you" to supposed racists?

Renegade Mechanic

darkpagandeath wrote: »

But it's a dry heat...




May not be true

De-hefinitely untrue. I'm sopping.. Sweating like a.... um....

DEFTLEFTHAND

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Donald Trump'S Ghostwriter tells all:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

I think that Trump is a loudmouth showman who has no business in the White House but I also think something like this overly dramatic and exaggerates the actual power of the office anyway. The USA are not going to nuke civilisation out of existence.

From hearing Trump speak on foreign relations issues he seems to want to try and foster a better relationship with Russia and reduce the USA's involvement in conflicts overseas. He is on record for opposing military intervention in the past.

Sweetemotion

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Will the sky fall down or something if Trump is elected?

Not at all.

darkpagandeath

Eowyn221 wrote: »

Is this supposed to be some kind of "intellectual" sado-masochism or a "f you" to supposed racists?

Considering the comment on White Irish slaves....

Zxclnic

lazybones32 wrote: »

I don't need to applaud myself: quality speaks for itself.:D
It's not a comment -it's a fact.

If you passed you're not doing it right...

No-one made an assertion. A fact was stated. A person in an emotionally-charged frame of mind read something disagreeable; their blood-pressure increased and they've shown how irrational they are.

Care to answer how expectations are a factor in an IQ test? Can they be quantitatively measured?

Please show the fact.

Educational expectations among a lot of black communities - for historical and cultural reasons - would not be as 'high' as those of the white population - a bit like here where working-class kids for the most part, aren't encouraged or expected to enjoy and reap the benefits of third level education as much as their middle-class counterparts. Therefore IQ tests and their results - in general - would favour those who enjoyed a more formal education and those who believe that IQ tests are important or significant.

darkpagandeath

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

De-hefinitely untrue. I'm sopping.. Sweating like a.... um....

Like a gender fluid black/Irish/Chinese dwarf on receiving the noble prize ?

darkpagandeath

Zxclnic wrote: »

Please show the fact.

Educational expectations among a lot of black communities - for historical and cultural reasons - would not be as 'high' as those of the white population - a bit like here where working-class kids for the most part, aren't encouraged or expected to enjoy and reap the benefits of third level education as much as their middle-class counterparts. Therefore IQ tests and their results - in general - would favour those who enjoyed a more formal education and those who believe that IQ tests are important or significant.

IQ is a poor reflection of Intelligence it changes with age for example.

Allinall

darkpagandeath wrote: »

IQ is a poor reflection of Intelligence it changes with age for example.

As does intelligence.

Zxclnic

lazybones32 wrote: »

We were known as the **** of Europe, according to some.




lol! Mr. Obama (who is the first Nobel Peace prize winner to launch missiles at a Nation and was awarded the honour solely for being black) couldn't even close Gitmo Bay Prison, despite it being an election promise, but you seriously think a f*ckin' wall is going to be built between USA and Mexico?!

A PotUS cannot do as he pleases.

When was this - above in bold - info disclosed?

Zxclnic

darkpagandeath wrote: »

IQ is a poor reflection of Intelligence it changes with age for example.

You don't say...

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath

Case in point... first 10 seconds

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Little CuChulainn

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Black people can be racist too you know. Some black people say the n word. Its still a racist word when they use it.

37 people thanked the racist comment. That's very sad.

That's because it wasn't a racist comment. It was clearly a joke aimed at the way race issue are handled compared to others.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Another very racist comment. You have put the black people of the whole world into that little box of lower iq. Congratulations.

Lower iq than who? White, Indian?
Black people in poor areas have lower iq because of bad diet. A massive amount of black children in parts of Africa have major learning difficulties. This is down to extremely bad diets or not getting enough food as early as being in the womb.

The kkk use statistics like yours to fuel their beliefs. Lower iq has nothing to do with the colour of the skin.

Look it's fairly obvious you don't understand what racism is. Pointing out that black people score lower on tests or are involved in more violence than other races is not racism. Believing that these facts are solely down to them being black is racism.

Sleeper12

Little CuChulainn wrote:

Look it's fairly obvious you don't understand what racism is. Pointing out that black people score lower on tests or are involved in more violence than other races is not racism. Believing that these facts are solely down to them being black is racism.

The poster was being racist because his statement was blacks score lower than whites o the iq tests. This is simply not true & when questioned further he narrowed his statistics to the states. He is manipulating statics to try prove a racist thought, that black people have lower iq than whites.
I admit there are a lot of black people in the states but they don't represent the whole black population of the world. Remember a very small proportion of the world's black population live in the states.
A statistic being manipulated in such a fashion IS being racist.

Sleeper12

This is worth a look

https://www.facebook.com/1785045585047275/videos/1785092775042556/

Zxclnic

jacksie66 wrote: »

Black Lives Matter are nothing more than a militant terrorist group..

So not just a terrorist group, but a militant one no less......

Ah come on, it's a group of people who have real concerns about the increasing number of - chiefly - young black men being shot by the police in America.
And like most new political/social movements its aims and ways in which they might achieve them have yet to be clearly defined or stated.
If some people around the world (including Dublin) want to support that cause and show solidarity with that particular grouping then surely they have every right to so do, notwithstanding the practical relevance of such a protest so far away from the action so to speak.
Personally I support the assertion in the movement's name and can see why such a group came into being but I also retain the right to deplore and condemn any violence perpetrated in the name of BLM.....as I would have - if I were old enough - supported the Anti-Apartheid Movement in the 70's and 80's, or the Civil Rights Movement in Northern Ireland in the late 60's and similarly condemned any violent action arising from the formation of these groups.
If history is a marker for the future then it wouldn't be a mad idea to suggest that a splintering in the future BLM might see a more radical or violent breakaway group come into being calling for the murder of policemen or some such abhorrent actions.
I, and I would suggest most of those who are broadly or mildly supportive of BLM, would not for one moment countenance a group dedicated to violent action in the name of the cause.
So I'll give the still evolving three year old 'Black Lives Matter' a chance to separate the wheat from the chaff among their number before lazily dismissing them as nothing more than a militant terrorist group

Little CuChulainn

Zxclnic wrote: »

So not just a terrorist group, but a militant one no less......

Ah come on, it's a group of people who have real concerns about the increasing number of - chiefly - young black men being shot by the police in America.
And like most new political/social movements its aims and ways in which they might achieve them have yet to be clearly defined or stated.
If some people around the world (including Dublin) want to support that cause and show solidarity with that particular grouping then surely they have every right to so do, notwithstanding the practical relevance of such a protest so far away from the action so to speak.
Personally I support the assertion in the movement's name and can see why such a group came into being but I also retain the right to deplore and condemn any violence perpetrated in the name of BLM.....as I would have - if I were old enough - supported the Anti-Apartheid Movement in the 70's and 80's, or the Civil Rights Movement in Northern Ireland in the late 60's and similarly condemned any violent action arising from the formation of these groups.
If history is a marker for the future then it wouldn't be a mad idea to suggest that a splintering in the future BLM might see a more radical or violent breakaway group come into being calling for the murder of policemen or some such abhorrent actions.
I, and I would suggest most of those who are broadly or mildly supportive of BLM, would not for one moment countenance a group dedicated to violent action in the name of the cause.
So I'll give the still evolving three year old 'Black Lives Matter' a chance to separate the wheat from the chaff among their number before lazily dismissing them as nothing more than a militant terrorist group

The problem with the BLM tag is that there is no organisation attached to it to give it legitimacy. So it means different things to different people. Despite this, the message that seems to be most vocal is to blame police for shooting black men. And it's this message that loses people because they recognise it for what it is. It's a cop out. Police don't treat black men worse than white men, black men are just more likely to be involved in violent crime. The major threat of violence to black men is other black men and the vast majority of police shootings have been found to be completely justified, either by investigators or courts. BLM supporters would have you believe that this is due to some immunity or conspiracy but the simpler and more evidentially supported explanation is that the shootings are justified.

BLM is used by many as simply a way to target police for doing their jobs and to scapegoat them for problems within the black communities. If they really wanted to make a difference they'd be working to improve their own communities from within and using their political influence to address the economic issues that has so many black people living in poverty and in ghettos. But they don't, because it's easier to blame a faceless uniform than take a look at yourself. And it's this mentality that has dehumanised police to the point where they are being shot in the street for no reason.

Zxclnic

The assertion that ''Police don't treat black men worse than white men.''. is the issue in a nutshell and can't be really be proved scientifically either way. So let's agree to disagree on that one.

Also ''The major threat of violence to black men is other black men and the vast majority of police shootings have been found to be completely justified, either by investigators or courts.''

Firstly, Black on Black violence is not done in the name of law and order and 'keeping the peace', and that's a very, very big difference both socially and politically.

Secondly, who's doing the investigating?
Imagine if the police in America were found by the courts to be systematically guilty of deliberately targeting young black men...
...the words 'appalling' and 'vista' spring to mind.

Little CuChulainn

Zxclnic wrote: »

The assertion that ''Police don't treat black men worse than white men.''. is the issue in a nutshell and can't be really be proved scientifically either way. So let's agree to disagree on that one.

Eh no. Ecidence points one way. Even academics going into studies looking for evidence to prove the blm assertion are coming up empty. There's an old saying. When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras. More black men are killed because more black men are likely to react violently to police. The BLM assertion is based on perception but never evidence.

Zxclnic wrote: »

Also ''The major threat of violence to black men is other black men and the vast majority of police shootings have been found to be completely justified, either by investigators or courts.''

Firstly, Black on Black violence is not done in the name of law and order and 'keeping the peace', and that's a very, very big difference both socially and politically.

Secondly, who's doing the investigating?
Imagine if the police in America were found by the courts to be systematically guilty of deliberately targeting young black men...
...the words 'appalling' and 'vista' spring to mind.

Who is doing the investigating? Seems like everyone has had a go. DoJ take most of them now it seems. Local prosecutors and internal investigations, sometimes done by outside departments, also seem to be standard investigations. Even if they can get something past a grand jury, they can barely get a conviction. You can of course put this down to white man privilege or conspiracy but once again the answer is simple, the shootings are generally justified, even in the name of law and order.

Zxclnic

''Even academics going into studies looking for evidence to prove the blm assertion are coming up empty.''

Go on then, cite the above studies.

darkpagandeath

Zxclnic wrote: »

So not just a terrorist group, but a militant one no less......

Ah come on, it's a group of people who have real concerns about the increasing number of - chiefly - young black men being shot by the police in America.
And like most new political/social movements its aims and ways in which they might achieve them have yet to be clearly defined or stated.
If some people around the world (including Dublin) want to support that cause and show solidarity with that particular grouping then surely they have every right to so do, notwithstanding the practical relevance of such a protest so far away from the action so to speak.
Personally I support the assertion in the movement's name and can see why such a group came into being but I also retain the right to deplore and condemn any violence perpetrated in the name of BLM.....as I would have - if I were old enough - supported the Anti-Apartheid Movement in the 70's and 80's, or the Civil Rights Movement in Northern Ireland in the late 60's and similarly condemned any violent action arising from the formation of these groups.
If history is a marker for the future then it wouldn't be a mad idea to suggest that a splintering in the future BLM might see a more radical or violent breakaway group come into being calling for the murder of policemen or some such abhorrent actions.
I, and I would suggest most of those who are broadly or mildly supportive of BLM, would not for one moment countenance a group dedicated to violent action in the name of the cause.
So I'll give the still evolving three year old 'Black Lives Matter' a chance to separate the wheat from the chaff among their number before lazily dismissing them as nothing more than a militant terrorist group

No they are not, out of what 1.1k people shot in the USA last year 60 Odd were black. So unless you use Per capita in complete isolation to anything else the stats don't backup that nonsense statement. Just like having your hands up don't shoot.

timmyntc

Zxclnic wrote: »

''Even academics going into studies looking for evidence to prove the blm assertion are coming up empty.''

Go on then, cite the above studies.

He said that there are no studies - so the burden of proof is on you

Lt Dan

armaghlad wrote: »

I'd have thought Irish people would sympathise with innocent civilians being shot dead by armed police but clearly some on here have short/selective memories...

Innocent ? All of them?

By all means, sympathy for those who were accused of committing criminal offences or were committing criminal offences but received disproportionate treatment from the cops ie shoot to kill

The Sympathy went quickly when cops got killed in retaliation and the refusal of this group to accept that the black community never take responsibility for their actions

Zxclnic

timmyntc wrote: »

He said that there are no studies - so the burden of proof is on you

Quote:Even academics going into studies looking for evidence to prove the blm assertion are coming up empty

I'm still waiting.

Zxclnic

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No they are not, out of what 1.1k people shot in the USA last year 60 Odd were black. So unless you use Per capita in complete isolation to anything else the stats don't backup that nonsense statement. Just like having your hands up don't shoot.

You say '60 Odd' as if that were nothing, are you being deliberately callous?

Still waiting for you to supply those 'studies' btw, the ones you used to bolster your argument.
In the meantime here's an article from the respected 'Chicago Tribune' which answers some of the questions you've posed in this thread.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-philando-castile-alton-sterling-police-shootings-black-men-20160707-story.html

Zxclnic

Sorry. re. the ''studies'' was confusing 'darkpagandeath' with 'Little CuChulainn'.
My bad.
Would still like to see them though!

Billy86

Still curious where this '60 out of 1,100' figure is coming from, because I have not been able to find a source that mentions it.

You can skip subscribing by putting something like erfjneodifvhnowendfw@hotmail.com in, and then hitting 'return to article'.

Maybe this is the one that was being referred to...
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
2015: 1,146 total... 581 white (2.93 per million)... 306 black (7.27 per mn)
2016: 596 total... 294 white (1.48)... 147 black (3.49)
Combined: 1,742 total... 875 white... 451 black

The 2016 per capita number are about half of the 2015 ones since we're barely over halfway through the year.

The obvious problem is 306 is more than 5 times what 60 is. I really hope someone isn't being disingenuous with their facts..,

darkpagandeath

Billy86 wrote: »

Still curious where this '60 out of 1,100' figure is coming from, because I have not been able to find a source that mentions it.

You can skip subscribing by putting something like erfjneodifvhnowendfw@hotmail.com in, and then hitting 'return to article'.

Maybe this is the one that was being referred to...
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
2015: 1,146 total... 581 white (2.93 per million)... 306 black (7.27 per mn)
2016: 596 total... 294 white (1.48)... 147 black (3.49)
Combined: 1,742 total... 875 white... 451 black

The 2016 per capita number are about half of the 2015 ones since we're barely over halfway through the year.

The obvious problem is 306 is more than 5 times what 60 is. I really hope someone isn't being disingenuous with their facts..,

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

Paired with official government mortality data, this new finding indicates that about one in every 65 deaths of a young African American man in the US is a killing by police.

read it wrong apologies. Fact remains using per capita out of context is still useless. If an eskimo was shot that would be a huge number.

darkpagandeath

Zxclnic wrote: »

You say '60 Odd' as if that were nothing, are you being deliberately callous?

Still waiting for you to supply those 'studies' btw, the ones you used to bolster your argument.
In the meantime here's an article from the respected 'Chicago Tribune' which answers some of the questions you've posed in this thread.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-philando-castile-alton-sterling-police-shootings-black-men-20160707-story.html

More People die in America for various other reasons. Does this stop everyone from getting out of bed ?

Zxclnic

darkpagandeath wrote: »

More People die in America for various other reasons. Does this stop everyone from getting out of bed ?

Venom

darkpagandeath wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men



read it wrong apologies. Fact remains using per capita out of context is still useless. If an eskimo was shot that would be a huge number.

#eskimolivesmatter

aaron77a

It's absolutely ridiculous what's going on in America is a ghetto problem not a race one and also it's a problem of untrained dumb police with guns.

darkpagandeath

Zxclnic wrote: »

You are confused that more people die in the USA than being shot by the police for various reasons ?

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

read it wrong apologies. Fact remains using per capita out of context is still useless. If an eskimo was shot that would be a huge number.

White population of the US: 223,553,265
Black popluation of the US: 38,929,319
Eskimo population of the US: 16,581

Of course per capita is unreliable with such a small sample size as 16,581 when compared to vastly larger numbers, such 39mn and 223mn. Same reason polls tend to ask a large number of people, and not tiny numbers.

Zxclnic

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You are confused that more people die in the USA than being shot by the police for various reasons ?

This is descending into farce now, I suspect you're being deliberately silly.

I was trying to express my confusion as to why you would come out with the banal and meaningless: ''More People die in America for various other reasons. Does this stop everyone from getting out of bed ?''

That's all.

golfball37

The only people who annoy me more than protesters marching for a ridiculous cause are those who line up to ridicule them with the same tired smart alec rubbish.

darkpagandeath

Billy86 wrote: »

White population of the US: 223,553,265
Black popluation of the US: 38,929,319
Eskimo population of the US: 16,581

Of course per capita is unreliable with such a small sample size as 16,581 when compared to vastly larger numbers, such 39mn and 223mn. Same reason polls tend to ask a large number of people, and not tiny numbers.

Whose polling have you been shot and killed by the police ?

darkpagandeath

Zxclnic wrote: »

This is descending into farce now, I suspect you're being deliberately silly.

I was trying to express my confusion as to why you would come out with the banal and meaningless: ''More People die in America for various other reasons. Does this stop everyone from getting out of bed ?''

That's all.

41k committed suicide last year in the USA.

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Whose polling have you been shot and killed by the police ?

There you go again, failing to address the point. The point is that per capita representation is more reliable when using very large numbers, like 39mn or 223mn, than it is when using a number like 15,000. Just like a national poll using 10 people would be less likely to be accurate than one using 28,000 or 150,000 - that is the scale of difference we are talking about.

You know this too, hence your attempt to avoid addressing it.

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

41k committed suicide last year in the USA.

Just from skimming the first two pages of Google...

http://actionallianceforsuicideprevention.org/
http://yellowribbon.org/
http://hopeline.com/
http://www.sptsusa.org/contact-us/
http://www.samhsa.gov/suicide-prevention

osmiumartist

darkpagandeath wrote: »

41k committed suicide last year in the USA.

And your point is that:
A: if a lot of people are commtting suicide then there can't possibly be more black people being shot by the police than would be expected due to their population percentage.
Or
B: this just more whataboutery deflection bollix.
Or
C: you really really really honestly and truly can't comprehend what a percentage is

Think I'll go with a bit of B and a bit of C.

lazybones32

Zxclnic wrote: »

When was this - above in bold - info disclosed?

When he was given the award for his efforts at expanding peace, despite not actually doing anything to promote or bring peace. It was written in small print that it was actually for being the first black potus.

Zxclnic wrote: »

Please show the fact.

You have a computer with Internet connection, so when someone doesn't provide a link to follow but you want to check the veracity of what was written; highlight a section, right-click and select 'Search Google for...' (or whatever engine you use). In this case, highlighting 'black people, on average, score lower than whites on IQ tests' should provide you with many results.

I don't understand why people don't use the encyclopedia at their fingertips but still demand links. Have you any hunger for knowledge or truth?

20Cent

Militant terrorists don't usually organise bbq's with the police.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article90247307.html


Black Lives Matter protest in Wichita changed to cookout with police

WICHITA – What was originally planned as a protest march turned into a cookout where Wichita police and a diverse group of residents broke bread together.

The Wichita Eagle reports that organizers of the protest met with Police Chief Gordon Ramsay for several hours, ending with an agreement for the cookout, which took place Sunday at a city park. Several Wichita police officers took part.

Black Lives Matter protesters had planned to march on Sunday, but after organizers met with Chief Ramsay for hours, according to the protesters, they agreed to break bread together instead.

The goal was to open communication and build trust between police and the communities they serve. The crowd at the cookout included people who were white, black and Hispanic.

osmiumartist

lazybones32 wrote: »

When he was given the award for his efforts at expanding peace, despite not actually doing anything to promote or bring peace. It was written in small print that it was actually for being the first black potus.

So the entirety of the evidence you have for Obama receiving the Nobel Prize "for being black" is "I said so. And I'm well important I am. Because I said that too. So there."

lazybones32 wrote: »

You have a computer with Internet connection, so when someone doesn't provide a link to follow but you want to check the veracity of what was written; highlight a section, right-click and select 'Search Google for...' (or whatever engine you use). In this case, highlighting 'black people, on average, score lower than whites on IQ tests' should provide you with many results.

I don't understand why people don't use the encyclopedia at their fingertips but still demand links. Have you any hunger for knowledge or truth?

And then you ramble on spouting absolute hogwash about using Google to find evidence to back assertions when the best you can actually manage yourself is "I said so."
Brilliant. Just brilliant. Do you do weddings?

PS: Here, I'll give you a 101. From the Nobel Prize organization's own website.

The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009

PopePalpatine

lazybones32 wrote: »

You have a computer with Internet connection, so when someone doesn't provide a link to follow but you want to check the veracity of what was written; highlight a section, right-click and select 'Search Google for...' (or whatever engine you use). In this case, highlighting 'black people, on average, score lower than whites on IQ tests' should provide you with many results.

Have you ever bothered searching for "poor people score lower than wealthier people on IQ tests"? Here's one I found earlier, concluding that environment (i.e. socioeconomic background) was a far more significant predictor of IQ than ethnicity.

Billy86

So they organised a protest and just wound up having dinner together?

20Cent wrote: »

...Police Chief Gordon Ramsay...

...OOOOHHHHH!!!