Chain reaction sterling price on GB site v Euro price on Ireland site

cunavalos

Weepsie wrote: »

I'd wonder if the likes of CycleSuperStore or SwimCycleRun are monitoring this and looking at how they can fill a void. Sadly they don't have the buying power.

Is this the gap in the market that Rick Delaney from Aquablue was eyeing up with his 'amazon for bikes' plan to fund the cycling team.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/team-aqua-blue-sport-to-create-amazon-for-bikes-business-to-fund-itself/

bren_mc

joey100 wrote: »

Looks like wiggle have brought the euro price a lot closer to the sterling price on some of their stuff. A bike I've been following was around 3300 earlier this week, down to 2750 now. Still a little more expensive than the sterling but nothing huge anymore and is probably the delivery fee.

I've noticed this on both CRC and more recently wiggle. Both the bikes that I referred to earlier in the thread have now had the price for Irish customers reduced dramatically to the point where the difference probably is down to difference in VAT rates.

Beasty

bren_mc wrote: »

I've noticed this on both CRC and more recently wiggle. Both the bikes that I referred to earlier in the thread have now had the price for Irish customers reduced dramatically to the point where the difference probably is down to difference in VAT rates.

The one I'm looking at is down nearly £500 on CRC, and it's definitely just the VAT now - they've been promising me a reply to my e-mails for some time now. Maybe they are still working on an answer to my refund request. Looks like they've properly appreciated the point I was making!!!

bren_mc

Beasty wrote: »

The one I'm looking at is down nearly £500 on CRC, and it's definitely just the VAT now - they've been promising me a reply to my e-mails for some time now. Maybe they are still working on an answer to my refund request. Looks like they've properly appreciated the point I was making!!!

So looks like we may have you to thank for the abolition of the "paddy tax"

Might be a need to run an ad campaign asking "did you pay over the odds for a CRC purchase?" - something along the lines of the one for people that were "mis-sold ppi"

Beasty

bren_mc wrote: »

Might be a need to run an ad campaign asking "did you pay over the odds for a CRC purchase?" - something along the lines of the one for people that were "mis-sold ppi"

That was going to be one of my threats if they did not sort this out. Think I've probably only been caught out for a few quid, but they only started taking the mickey recently and I stopped purchasing from them (and Wiggle) when I realised what was going on.

Can now "reward" them with my custom again.....

Alanbt

All online retailers add something to the FX conversion. CRC are particularly bad in this regard. Wiggle not much better.
I've saved a tidy chunk this year by setting delivery country to U.K. (Using parcel motel) and using Revolut to pay in sterling.
Well worth looking into

Beasty

So Wiggle seem to now be offering the same (sterling) price for delivery to Ireland as they do to the UK. Looks like they have corrected the wider issue but forgotten to adjust the VAT!!

In addition their exchange rate is much more attractive if you want to pay in Euros - about 1.15 versus 1.20 on CRC. Maybe a "fill your boots" opportunity for anyone with a bit of spare cash, as I suspect that from here prices will creep up as the sterling devaluation starts being properly reflected in their prices

Kaisr Sose

CRC pricing is all over the place depending on your country.

Same item below but three different prices

Ireland €1,399
UK £1,199 but on sale at £1,057.99
Germany €1,399 but on sale at €1,169.99

https://imageshack.com/i/pl3mQftup

https://imageshack.com/i/po90Uo51p

https://imageshack.com/i/pmApzBkEp

So, it's just not all about the VAT or currency. Can they offer promos that are only applicable in one EU country? I did not think they could.

Beasty

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Can they offer promos that are only applicable in one EU country? I did not think they could.

That's discriminatory by virtue of residence and again against EU law in my view

Kaisr Sose

Beasty wrote: »

That's discriminatory by virtue of residence and again against EU law in my view

I would have thought so too...

Mattie500

Asked wiggle about the price differences between the U.K. And Ireland a couple of weeks back. I got a response per below.


"Thank you for getting back to me.

The prices will differ from country to country and there's so many different reasons for this. Some of the reasons I have listed below.

The immediate response would be VAT rates as each country has their own laws and regulations and even the actual VAT rates differ with each.

Other times, these prices can different based on the costs of doing business with each country – this includes shipping, marketing and managing returns. In this case, we’ll amend prices to accommodate this.

Another main reason can be based on value. We aim to please with our low prices and are frequently checking up on our competitors on how we can match and exceed one another’s promotions and markdowns. In many aspects this is a reflection of local promotional pricing.

As you can appreciate, these are just some of the reasons behind these price differences and there can be other elements not covered as in above.

Sorry if this has caused an issue to placing an order, but please be assured that we’ve done our utmost to tailor these prices to the best of our abilities and trust that you will soon be able to place your order for the good stuff!

I hope this helps clarify a bit and that you will enjoy the rest of your day."

Beasty

Doesn't alter the fact. If they want to sell within the EU they cannot ignore EU law

gordongekko

Beasty wrote: »

Doesn't alter the fact. If they want to sell within the EU they cannot ignore EU law

Don't see what the big problem is. You only have to look at a garage selling petrol. The price is not the same in ever topaz garage across the country. There will always be differences. If your not happy with the offer just buy somewhere else.

PCX

gordongekko wrote: »

Don't see what the big problem is. You only have to look at a garage selling petrol. The price is not the same in ever topaz garage across the country. There will always be differences. If your not happy with the offer just buy somewhere else.

A better analogy in this situation would be a topaz garage asking for ID when you go up to pay and then charging you a different rate depending on nationality.

gordongekko

PCX wrote: »

A better analogy in this situation would be a topaz garage asking for ID when you go up to pay and then charging you a different rate depending on nationality.

Well not really as with a garage a clear price is displayed and I choose whether I buy from there or not. They are completely in their right to charge what they want and it's up to me whether I choose to pay it or not.

rubadub

PCX wrote: »

A better analogy in this situation would be a topaz garage asking for ID when you go up to pay and then charging you a different rate depending on nationality.

nothing to do with nationality though, an English or German person living in Ireland are paying the same higher price to have it delivered here, some try and make out like its racist or something. If Topaz delivered oil to different countries or different counties I would expect differences.

Part of the problem is they are using the "free delivery" marketing crap for items above a certain value. There are no volunteer couriers or postmen. If they charged delivery they could mask price differences that way instead.

I think the first analogy is better, as they are charging what different regions will accept, this can also be due to higher rent in those places (in CRCs case different delivery costs) or price matching what local stores charge in that region for similar/same products. People go mad seeing dual price tags in shops here with lower sterling values, they often still buy the item as its cheaper than some Irish shop for similar quality. Tesco are currently selling 24x500ml guinness for just €20 in some of its stores near the border.

The best comparison I can think of is all the various amazon sites often have very different prices. Only real difference is CRC have the same URL. If people do complain and the EU upholds it they might have to resort to getting new URLs, which could lead to price increases across the board.

A sport supplement site myprotein began charging Irish customers a lot more when they went above the €35000 threshold. They did use a different URL.

Harrybelafonte

rubadub wrote: »

A sport supplement site myprotein began charging Irish customers a lot more when they went above the €35000 threshold. They did use a different URL.

Hm, that explains a lot.

rubadub

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Hm, that explains a lot.

not sure about now but they were charging 23% vat on lots of irish stuff too, which is zero in the UK, which hugely compounded the difference.

Protein powder is zero rated in ireland if you label it as a foodstuff, which is all they had to do. Stick a muscular man on the front and its 23%. Same with glucose, stick a cyclist on the pack and its 23%, sell it in the baby food section or in a homebrew shop and its zero.

PCX

gordongekko wrote: »

Well not really as with a garage a clear price is displayed and I choose whether I buy from there or not. They are completely in their right to charge what they want and it's up to me whether I choose to pay it or not.

OK then to labour the analogy to death then - If Topaz in Rosslare had a sign up giving different 3 different Diesel prices one for Irish reg cars, 10% more for UK reg and a 20% more for other EU reg cars. It wouldn't be right.

The point you are missing is that it is one business and they are charging different customers different prices based on their location. This is in contravention of European law. They are entitled to charge different delivery charges and may have to apply different VAT rates by law but they must keep the base price of products sold online the same across the EU.

If you buy from a bricks and mortar shop in Ireland they can't say we offer free nationwide delivery on all TVs and this one costs €500 if you live in Dublin and €600 if you live in Galway.

rubadub wrote: »

nothing to do with nationality though, an English or German person living in Ireland are paying the same higher price to have it delivered here, some try and make out like its racist or something. If Topaz delivered oil to different countries or different counties I would expect differences.

Part of the problem is they are using the "free delivery" marketing crap for items above a certain value. There are no volunteer couriers or postmen. If they charged delivery they could mask price differences that way instead.

So stop using the marketing crap then. State the delivery costs and let consumers decide whether they are fair. They are entitled to say free UK delivery and €50 delivery to Ireland.

rubadub wrote: »

I think the first analogy is better, as they are charging what different regions will accept, this can also be due to higher rent in those places (in CRCs case different delivery costs) or price matching what local stores charge in that region for similar/same products. People go mad seeing dual price tags in shops here with lower sterling values, they often still buy the item as its cheaper than some Irish shop for similar quality. Tesco are currently selling 24x500ml guinness for just €20 in some of its stores near the border.

The best comparison I can think of is all the various amazon sites often have very different prices. Only real difference is CRC have the same URL. If people do complain and the EU upholds it they might have to resort to getting new URLs, which could lead to price increases across the board.

In amazons case they are different companies set up in the different countries. While the companies might have different prices they do not change ex VAT prices based on they charge the same price to people in different locations. So a UK resident can by of the german company at the same price a german resident can - the delivery charge and VAT can differ.

rubadub

PCX wrote: »

So stop using the marketing crap then. State the delivery costs and let consumers decide whether they are fair. They are entitled to say free UK delivery and €50 delivery to Ireland.

They would stop using the free delivery marketing crap and just use another one, the masking price differences with delivery cost trick. Seems you might be happier with that scam though since its legal.

I am not sure of the EU law though, and if any companies have been done for it. It would seem the law is vague

PCX wrote: »

OK then to labour the analogy to death then - If Topaz in Rosslare had a sign up giving different 3 different Diesel prices one for Irish reg cars, 10% more for UK reg and a 20% more for other EU reg cars. It wouldn't be right

morally right or legally right?

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm

Price discrimination
As an EU national you can't be charged a higher price when buying products or services because of your nationality or country of residence.

Some price differences can however be justified, if they are based on objective criteria other than nationality.

Sample story: sometimes differences in price can be justified

Bart, from the Netherlands, visits his friend in Germany and goes to a swimming pool. He is charged a higher price than local residents, and wonders if this is unlawful price discrimination.

In this case, the price difference is justified. The swimming pool is run by the local authority and financed by local taxes, so local residents have already contributed to the running of the pool and therefore enjoy a lower entry price.

This UK document talks of the vagueness of it

http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/image/document/2016-5/uk_government_13504.pdf

The Services Directive is not clear about what counts as a justified reason for differential
treatment of consumers. The legal text (Article 20) sets out that the recipient of a service
should not be made subject to ‘discriminatory requirements based on his nationality or
place of residence’ but leaves open the option for ‘differences in the condition of access’
where these differences are ‘directly justified by objective criteria’. However, the Directive
fails to define what would count as an ‘objective criteria’. While the recitals (Recital 95) are
of some assistance in defining ‘objective criteria’, they take a broad approach by listing a
wide range of justifiable reasons for differential treatment of consumers, including ‘different
market conditions, such as higher or lower demand’.

PCX wrote: »

In amazons case they are different companies set up in the different countries.

I am not sure that they are different companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com

Amazon has separate retail websites for the United States, the United Kingdom and Ireland, France, Canada, Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Australia, Brazil, Japan, China, India and Mexico. Amazon also offers international shipping to certain other countries for some of its products.

If they really are then Pixmania might be a better example, who have different URLs but seem to ship from several places.

Kaisr Sose

gordongekko wrote: »

Don't see what the big problem is. You only have to look at a garage selling petrol. The price is not the same in ever topaz garage across the country. There will always be differences. If your not happy with the offer just buy somewhere else.

That's not the same argument.

Keeping this with just ordering goods online, Amazon do not charge Irish people more (excluding a few % VAT) than a UK resident so why should CRC or Wiggle discriminate on price by geographic location ? This thing about cost of returns, cost of doing business being higher is just PR speak for we are charging you higher because we can or want to. The German shops don't do this. Albeit, they charge for delivery but it's a far more transparent model than marketing hocus pocus pricing of CRC/Wiggle.

Weepsie

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

That's not the same argument.

Keeping this with just ordering goods online, Amazon do not charge Irish people more (excluding a few % VAT) than a UK resident so why should CRC or Wiggle discriminate on price by geographic location ? This thing about cost of returns, cost of doing business being higher is just PR speak for we are charging you higher because we can or want to. The German shops don't do this. Albeit, they charge for delivery but it's a far more transparent model than marketing hocus pocus pricing of CRC/Wiggle.

Amazon do charge people more and always have. They are today charging an exchange rate of 1.20 when it's closer to 1.16. They've always done this. Mightn't seem much, but it can add up.

68 lost souls

Weepsie wrote: »

Amazon do charge people more and always have. They are today charging an exchange rate of 1.20 when it's closer to 1.16. They've always done this. Mightn't seem much, but it can add up.

Yes but you can choose to pay in £

Kaisr Sose

Weepsie wrote: »

Amazon do charge people more and always have. They are today charging an exchange rate of 1.20 when it's closer to 1.16. They've always done this. Mightn't seem much, but it can add up.

FX is unavoidable. Amazon are doing nothing wrong with charging a high margin for dynamic currency exchange. If you are paying that way you are paying more than if it goes through on your cc rate. Never choose dynamic current exchange without checking the margin, if it's more than 3%, pay in home currency and take your banks rate (or use a broker/revolut)