Referendum to give millions of Irish abroad a vote in Presidential election planned f

Hollister11

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/referendum-to-give-millions-of-irish-abroad-a-vote-in-presidential-election-planned-for-2017-34874496.html

I think this is a ridiculous referendum. I will be voting no. If you don't live in the country, you shouldn't get a say in how it's run.

FrancieBrady

If we keep going through periods of people being forced to leave because of incompetent government, then I think it is only right that those forcibly abroad should have a vote.

murphaph

No

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If we keep going through periods of people being forced to leave because of incompetent government, then I think it is only right that those forcibly abroad should have a vote.

Yep and it's not like the existing rules have produced decades of good governance! Maybe letting émigrés vote would actually improve things.

InTheTrees

No

Hollister11 wrote: »

I will be voting no. If you don't live in the country, you shouldn't get a say in how it's run.

Does the President really have that much hand in how the country is run?

vicwatson

No no no, why should people not living here potentially dictate as yo who runs our country? no way baby, starts off as presidential election then general elections, if ya wanna vote then come live here

LeinsterDub

Will they also introducing postal votes for non service members? Otherwise it will be kinda pointless

Owryan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If we keep going through periods of people being forced to leave because of incompetent government, then I think it is only right that those forcibly abroad should have a vote.

How does one decide between someone who was "forced to leave" and "left of their own choice" ?

FrancieBrady

Owryan wrote: »

How does one decide between someone who was "forced to leave" and "left of their own choice" ?

You don't, if somebody is interested enough to want to vote and they qualify, then they are entitled to vote.
We'll take their money quick enough so why not allow them to vote?

InTheTrees

No

The Presidency is a mostly ceremonial post representing the country.

Why shouldnt all citizens get a vote?

johnnyskeleton

InTheTrees wrote: »

The Presidency is a mostly ceremonial post representing the country.

Why shouldnt all citizens get a vote?

The president has important constitutional roles to play. Referring legislation to the supreme court and dissolving the dail, to name two.

Cookie_Monster

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Referring legislation to the supreme court and dissolving the dail, to name two.

neither of which actually require an individual person to do it. Legislation should be automatically reviewed in the modern age and dissolving the dail is merely a ceremonial box ticking exercise

topmanamillion

I'm definitely voting no.

While I have no issue in principle i.e Irish people abroad voting, the reality is much different.
Firstly would everyone with an Irish passport get a vote?
Or would there be a limit to the length you could be living abroad and still vote?
Would it be people with Irish ancestors?
There's a bag of worms in those questions alone.

Just as an example, and I'm aware these people may not qualify, there are 33.3 million people in America with Irish ancestory.
If say even 3 million of those qualified we could very quickly end up with a situation where the ex pat electorate out numbered the domestic one. That's before ever Australia, Britain & Canada are brought into the equation.

As has been said if this were to pass the clamour for it to be extended to general elections would be deafening.

The cold reality is many emigrants will never return. They have built lives for themselves abroad and the politics of their home nation will never effect them.

Zaph

So the choice is a referendum on a nice non-controversial subject that nobody asked for, or one on the 8th amendment that people have been clamouring for? Good to see them making the tough choices there.

LeinsterDub

Zaph wrote: »

So the choice is a referendum on a nice non-controversial subject that nobody asked for, or one on the 8th amendment that people have been clamouring for? Good to see them making the tough choices there.

Also what happened to reforming the Seanad after the rejection of that referendum

FrancieBrady

If you left the country and had no interest would you be bothered to vote?


If we consider people eligible for our sports teams or available to exploit when we need something (the fabled 'diaspora') then why not (other than begrudgery/fear of sinister influence) give those who are interested enough a vote?
Make the process of doing it a bit complicated so that only those interested would be bothered.

beach_walker

No

Hmm, interesting posts here. Given the reaction to the emigrants voting in the Marriage referendum last year I wouldn't have guessed at such a negative response...

Hands up I'm an emigrant. Given Ireland's somewhat unique position in regards to how many citizens live abroad, I get some of the reasons why we're alone in the Western world by not giving those abroad a vote in anything. However I do think we should have a say in the Presidential elections.

beach_walker

No

vicwatson wrote: »

no way baby, starts off as presidential election then general elections

Haha! You seriously think that FF, FG or Labour want emigrants having a say in the Dail?!

Zubeneschamali

No

vicwatson wrote: »

starts off as presidential election then general elections

Do you know which European countries do not allow citizens abroad to vote?

Ireland and Greece, and the Greek law has been found in violation of the ECHR.

vicwatson

No

vicwatson wrote: »

No no no, why should people not living here potentially dictate as yo who runs our country? no way baby, starts off as presidential election then general elections, if ya wanna vote then come live here

You say that as if the president has any actual power..

No

Not really surprised at the negative opinions on this. Ireland seems unique in its desire not to give those abroad a say in anything.
It is curious though given the gushing reception that emigrants returning to vote (many illegally) got last year.

murphaph

No

The UK allows emigrees to vote for a set period of time after they emigrate. I think a 10 year rule would be fair and should assuage any fears of government being elected by people with nothing more than Irish citizenship, never having lived in Ireland.

johnnyskeleton

No

I favour an extension of suffrage to non-resident Irish citizens, provided that they can demonstrate that were last resident in Ireland (in full-time education, paying tax or receiving welfare transfers) in a period of time not exceeding, say for argument's sake, 10 years.

I wouldn't support an extension of the franchise beyond that period, or to those whom have never been resident on the island of Ireland.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The president has important constitutional roles to play. Referring legislation to the supreme court and dissolving the dail, to name two.

To name pretty much all of them, actually.

I'm not belittling those functions, but that's as far as the President's powers go, in any meaningful sense.

The President certainly has some limited influence over national dialogue (in his capacity as a political celebrity), but you have to really strain the definition of the word 'power' to ascribe any other significant powers to him. The only other powers he enjoys are constitutional courtesies, similar to that of a British monarch.

Zaph

No

Zaph wrote: »

So the choice is a referendum on a nice non-controversial subject that nobody asked for, or one on the 8th amendment that people have been clamouring for? Good to see them making the tough choices there.

It will be enormously controversial, and the diaspora have been campaigning for it for years.

The 8th Amendment referendum will be a far more nuanced affair than a Yes/No question, since it is likely to replace the 8th Amendment with an amending article, as opposed to a simple repeal.

For that reason, the 8th amendment referendum will go to a representative convention of ordinary citizens where they can examine the possibilities in detail, having taken a variety of legal advice and having regard to the submissions of various advocacy groups.

I am unhappy with the 8th amendment, but I'm very impressed by the serious, deliberative approach that is in train for its removal. It has to be deliberative if it is to garner public support and political legitimacy.

the groutch

I'd say no, because if this goes through, it could snowball from there, to voting on referenda, European elections, and possibly getting their own Dail representation.

mirrorwall14

No

I'd like a LOT more clarity on what is being proposed here.

I would be in favour of those who are Irish Citizens and tax resident to vote in any election. If they're paying, then not a problem. Outside of that I'm a lot less in favour of it. Maybe if you are only non resident for less than five years? If you are gone more than that I don't see why you should get a vote