Deep Space Nine Runthrough

pixelburp

Jaysus, "The Siege of AR-558" is possibly the grimmest episode of DS9, if not Star Trek generally, I've watched. Really spectacular episode all the same, and the most brutally immediate portrayal of the Dominion War so far.

On another note, I'm half a dozen episodes into the last season and I really, REALLY don't like Ezri Dax; she's whiny and annoying. Easy on the eye, but in many respects that just makes her twice as annoying, as it's simply more pronounced the production team went for a pretty face, rather than ensuring she could carry her lines - not that they bothered writing a decent character in the first place mind you.

Inviere

The Dax character really needed to not be seen in Season 7. Ezri, no matter if you like her or not, stood zero chance of fitting in with everything that had been established so far. I mean, Morn probably got more character development than she could have ever gotten in one season that had so much to wrap up at the same time.

Evade

I like Ezri but it would have been so much better if Dax had gotten a promotion to captain (I know that's two ranks higher but there was a war on) and her own ship at the end of season 6. They could easily have used the Enteprise excuse as to why she wasn't around. That would also have left the door open for a cameo or two. Bonus points if she'd gotten an Akira class because they're so cool.

The_Valeyard

Inviere wrote: »

The Dax character really needed to not be seen in Season 7. Ezri, no matter if you like her or not, stood zero chance of fitting in with everything that had been established so far. I mean, Morn probably got more character development than she could have ever gotten in one season that had so much to wrap up at the same time.

Hey, careful.

Morn is legendary. Pity you just cant shut him up.

TheBigEvil

Am a big fan of DS9. I think they did a fantastic job of character development once settled into a rhythm. They had a wide range of characters, even Morn sitting at the bar got used more as the series went on and became a fan favourite. You were invested in the characters and by the end you felt for them all. Loved it!

I loved the way the ended the show, with that last series, and keeping the entire thread of the war all the way through the entire series. They didn't end up doing a "last two episodes" finale. Loved the way the ended the show.

To me DS9 is right up there with some of the best Star Trek TV ever!

Inviere

TheBigEvil wrote: »

To me DS9 is right up there with some of the best Star Trek TV ever!

I'd say it is the best. TNG had a very shaky start, and tended to be overly idealistic a lot of the time (though still brilliant, I do wonder just how the show would have fared without Stewart). DS9 also had a less than ideal beginning, but developed rapidly, and managed a sense of development that no Trek show managed before or after. Voyager was a large step backwards, Enterprise was outright bad, and Discovery is still very new (though I thoroughly enjoyed Season 1 of Discovery from start to finish, so am optimistic about it).

Wait... Ferengi have a FIRST set of ears??? Did I hear that correctly?

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Wait... Ferengi have a FIRST set of ears??? Did I hear that correctly?

"Wait... humans have a first set of teeth? They don't just grow constantly?" - A Ferengi, probably.

Daith

DS9 is basically like a favourite novel that I return too. I'd generally do a full rewatch (maybe skip a few eps but not much).

With TNG, I definitely pick individual episodes from each season.

The_Valeyard

Daith wrote: »

DS9 is basically like a favourite novel that I return too. I'd generally do a full rewatch (maybe skip a few eps but not much).

With TNG, I definitely pick individual episodes from each season.

Think from the conversations here. DS9 is like a fine wine, better with age.

odyssey06

If you need further hits of 'vintage' DS9, I quite liked the early novels The Siege, Fallen Heroes, Betrayal, Proud Helios, Station Rage and the prequel series "Terok Nor" set during the Occupation era.

Probably the novels that continue the DS9 story post "All That You Leave Behind" warrant their own thread - there are a lot.

Daith

odyssey06 wrote: »

If you need further hits of 'vintage' DS9, I quite liked the early novels The Siege, Fallen Heroes, Betrayal, Proud Helios, Station Rage and the prequel series "Terok Nor" set during the Occupation era.

Probably the novels that continue the DS9 story post "All That You Leave Behind" warrant their own thread - there are a lot.

I liked the Terok Nor books but I have massive, massive dislike of a character they created for the books called Elias Vaughan.

I did enjoy the Terok Nor books though. The backstory of Cardassia and Bajor is fascinating and I think adds to the Prophet/religion angle in the first few seasons.

pixelburp

Watching "It's only a paper moon", and a hard one to get through: not for the story, it's another standout character episode that tells a fairly human (so to speak) story, but because of all the technobabble and pseudo-science in Trek, the one my brain has simply never managed to accept has been the holodecks.

Functionally, geographically, they just makes no sense whatsoever and I don't think the show has ever tried to explain the obvious questions it raises. They seem to operate more like a TARDIS, expanding out these small spaces into ones much greater, but all seems outside the realms of Trek's ... ahem, 'science'.

How so? People walk on forcefields like an invisible treadmill, and holographic views can be between each person giving different perspectives

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

How so? People walk on forcefields like an invisible treadmill, and holographic views can be between each person giving different perspectives

This is how I always thought they worked too but the holosuites on DS9 are incredibly small for the amount of people they can squeeze into them. I think Take me Out to the Holosuite is the most ridiculous instance with over twenty people crammed into it at the same time.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

This is how I always thought they worked too but the holosuites on DS9 are incredibly small for the amount of people they can squeeze into them. I think Take me Out to the Holosuite is the most ridiculous instance with over twenty people crammed into it at the same time.

Who says they are all in one holodeck?
24th century LAN gaming

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Who says they are all in one holodeck?
24th century LAN gaming

It's possible.

Rawr

Deleted User wrote: »

Who says they are all in one holodeck?
24th century LAN gaming

I kind of always assumed that once "players" in a holodeck go far enough away from each other that the holodeck will "partition" itself into individual holodeck sessions which are then networked much like your LAN gaming reference.

I also assumed that holodecks "scrolled" with the user so that they can go in any direction regardless of how big the holodeck itself was.

pixelburp

What makes my brain fizz are the petty details like the small Holosuite on DS9 immediately becoming an open space larger than the suite itself; how does Nog not keep walking into the external walls of reality when walking around Vic's hotel? And as mentioned, 'Take me out to the Holosuite' particularly broke the illusion with its fully functioning baseball field and players running around. I don't buy the 'multiple rooms' idea, if only because it's not something that ever came up, so can't be presumed as such.

That said, it's not that I can't wrap my head around a 'holosuite' as a more passive, constrained entity, but it always feels like the part of Trek's lore & science that the writers had the least interest in constraining according to pragmatic, observable reality; 'science as magic' really, just for the excuse of having the TNG romp around in robin hood costumes or whatever.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

What makes my brain fizz are the petty details like the small Holosuite on DS9 immediately becoming an open space larger than the suite itself; how does Nog not keep walking into the external walls of reality when walking around Vic's hotel? And as mentioned, 'Take me out to the Holosuite' particularly broke the illusion with its fully functioning baseball field and players running around. I don't buy the 'multiple rooms' idea, if only because it's not something that ever came up, so can't be presumed as such.

That said, it's not that I can't wrap my head around a 'holosuite' as a more passive, constrained entity, but it always feels like the part of Trek's lore & science that the writers had the least interest in constraining according to pragmatic, observable reality; 'science as magic' really, just for the excuse of having the TNG romp around in robin hood costumes or whatever.

You are presuming that they are in one room, I presume that they are not.

And we have VR walk mats already to prevent exactly what you are saying regarding the walls issue

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

how does Nog not keep walking into the external walls of reality when walking around Vic's hotel?

Rolling floor forcefield. Nog doesn't actually move the world around him does, a bit like the old Mariokart games. Individual perspectives and some kind of lensing effect would work for more people in a holodeck but real space would still be a limiting factor.

Data hitting the wall of the Enterprise D's holodeck in Encounter at Farpoint is more of a head scratcher. The phycical holorock should have ceased to be physical as it approached the wall and become an image on the wall as soon as it passed through it. Unless Data somehow knew Riker was coming in and preplanned hitting the wall.

starvin

Just after watching the season 3 episode “Defiant”. It’s the one where Thomas Riker steals the Defiant to use in the DMZ. I’ve always wondered why he and O’Brien had a very unfriendly meeting on the bridge of the ship.

IvySlayer

starvin wrote: »

Just after watching the season 3 episode “Defiant”. It’s the one where Thomas Riker steals the Defiant to use in the DMZ. I’ve always wondered why he and O’Brien had a very unfriendly meeting on the bridge of the ship.

Because Thomas doesn't want to blow his cover? He deliberately was rude and antagonised him because only the chief really knows Will Riker. He needed him out of there ASAP

coffee_cake

S4E5 now. sisko is baldy and beardy, kira's hairstyle is a lot nicer. jadzia's is less gelled and bit more pouffy and wavy
that's my season 4 ds9 fashion update

odyssey06

IvySlayer wrote: »

Because Thomas doesn't want to blow his cover? He deliberately was rude and antagonised him because only the chief really knows Will Riker. He needed him out of there ASAP

Yeah that's what Tom was up to, but shouldn't O'Brien have copped there was something amiss? There didn't appear to be any bad blood between Tom (I mean Will!) and O'Brien on leaving the enterprise... unless it was just a reflective case of O'Brien deferring to an "officer".

The_Valeyard

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yeah that's what Tom was up to, but shouldn't O'Brien have copped there was something amiss? There didn't appear to be any bad blood between Tom and O'Brien on leaving the enterprise... unless it was just a reflective case of O'Brien deferring to an "officer".

O Brien was probably shocked and confused by his reaction. Id say he planned to contact Geordie after his shift to find out what's going on.

Daith

The_Valeyard wrote: »

O Brien was probably shocked and confused by his reaction. Id say he planned to contact Geordie after his shift to find out what's going on.

Yeah, if it's still confusing to people to watch the show, I'd say Tom did his job well.

I did like how in Defiant, the Maquis or at least Tom really couldn't understand an actual terrorist/freedom fighter like Kira.

coffee_cake

Jaysus, worf. You take nog's ferengi tooth sharpener that's for sale and stick it straight into your gob without washing!

TheValeyard

bluewolf wrote: »

Jaysus, worf. You take nog's ferengi tooth sharpener that's for sale and stick it straight into your gob without washing!

Klingons are not known for hygiene

brainfreeze

pixelburp wrote: »

What makes my brain fizz are the petty details like the small Holosuite on DS9 immediately becoming an open space larger than the suite itself; how does Nog not keep walking into the external walls of reality when walking around Vic's hotel?.

The holodeck doesn't work like that. It's not like modern VR where you are limited to the size of the room you are in.

Its force-fields, the area is generated around the user. Think of it like a treadmill, the world moves around you, you are standing still.

If you are in a big open field and someone is at the other side, that's just a holographic image of them. They would be standing close to you in real life. This was explained in TNG.

Matter conversion subsystem creates physical props using replicators. Replicated props are generally created when an object is likely to be touched by the participant. Some props are animated under computer control by precision-guided tractor beams.

Holographic imagery subsystem creates three-dimensional images of simulated environments. Shaped forcebeams give physical substance to foreground objects so they have the illusion of being solid.

Substrate forcefield creates "treadmill" effect, permitting participant to remain stationary while the simulated environment "scrolls" by within the limits of the simulation program.