Deep Space Nine Runthrough

coffee_cake

Nog Has PTSD

did they change all the door opening thingys? they're kinda brass with a push button now??

Evade

They were always like this, weren't they?

coffee_cake

Yeah i thought they were different for some reason. I'll have to go and have a check

Kinda disappointed with this episode, do starfleet psychs not know about possible benefits for holosuites for recovery? Surely that'd be top of people's lists when theybwere developed. I mean temporarily

Evade

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah i thought they were different for some reason. I'll have to go and have a check

Kinda disappointed with this episode, do starfleet psychs not know about possible benefits for holosuites for recovery? Surely that'd be top of people's lists when theybwere developed. I mean temporarily

Maybe they tried before and they all went the way Nog was going, retreating into fantasy instead of facing reality and coming to terms with it.

coffee_cake

You think they'd say that instead of being like "a HOLOSUITE? why would anyone want to go into that? I don't understand?? Get him out??"

I love the vic fontaine character. It's cool they gave him "a special matrix". I remember they touched on that before when he was setting up odo on a date

Evade

bluewolf wrote: »

You think they'd say that instead of being like "a HOLOSUITE? why would anyone want to go into that? I don't understand?? Get him out??"

I love the vic fontaine character

It could be a case like when Bashir did a procedure that let that wheelchair bound alien walk in standard gravity. An old idea that was tried, resulted in failure, and then pretty much forgotten about.

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

Maybe they tried before and they all went the way Nog was going, retreating into fantasy instead of facing reality and coming to terms with it.

Or maybe Starfleet therapists are all as useless as Dax? My memory of that episode was that she basically farted about making noncommittal platitudes while Nog was clearly in a bad place and needed help. As usual she had nothing to offer.

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

Or maybe Starfleet therapists are all as useless as Dax? My memory of that episode was that she basically farted about making noncommittal platitudes while Nog was clearly in a bad place and needed help. As usual she had nothing to offer.

Very likely, Troi isn't great as a therapist either.

_Kaiser_

Evade wrote: »

Very likely, Troi isn't great as a therapist either.

Yea.. I remember that being particularly exposed when she lost her empathic powers and was misreading all her patients.

I never took to Ezri Dax though.. they should have just let the Dax character die with Jadzia, or keep Terry Farrell on for the last season somehow... here it suggests she would have been willing to do a recurring role which would have been far better than what we got IMO.

MJohnston

Anyone here listen to the Greatest Generation podcast? They've been covering DS9 for a while now (after doing all of TNG), and it's a really funny recap and review style show, highly recommended!

http://www.maximumfun.org/shows/greatest-generation

Inviere

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yea.. I remember that being particularly exposed when she lost her empathic powers and was misreading all her patients.

I gave her the benefit of the doubt there. She had just gone through a huge personal loss, losing an ability she’s had for her entire adult life. Not unlike a life changing injury for her. Her only fault there was, as a counselor, she should have recognized she needed counseling herself before getting even close to going back to work. I’m sure, in time, she’d have adjusted and relearned how to effectively counsel again.

Indricotherium

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yea.. I remember that being particularly exposed when she lost her empathic powers and was misreading all her patients.

I never took to Ezri Dax though.. they should have just let the Dax character die with Jadzia, or keep Terry Farrell on for the last season somehow... here it suggests she would have been willing to do a recurring role which would have been far better than what we got IMO.

Or they should have made another main character Dax.

Another missed opportunity.

Cassidy Yates maybe. Jake. Worf even?

pixelburp

Id' say what the writers were thinking was to take Jadzia and invert the character; to go from a confident & outgoing 'explorer, fighter, lover' sort of character, to a mousier personality, riddled with insecurity and confidence issues. It grated like hell at first, but to be fair it began to take shape once they toned down the severity of the gear change.

What didn't make sense was writing someone so crippled with self-doubt as a flippin' therapist. They could have picked any other rank or position in Starfleet and it would have gelled better than what they picked. Who on earth would want counselling from someone appearing on the verge of tears at every juncture?

Anyway: what was the obsession in the TNG-DS9 era with counsellors anyway? It's so uniquely Trek 'cos I've literally never read or watched any SciFi novel that had shrinks as an integral part of its crews.

Inviere

pixelburp wrote: »

What didn't make sense was writing someone so crippled with self-doubt as a flippin' therapist. They could have picked any other rank or position in Starfleet and it would have gelled better than what they picked. Who on earth would want counselling from someone appearing on the verge of tears at every juncture?.

She wasn’t ‘chosen’, though, she was the only Trill on board the ship that Jadzia was being transported on when she took a turn for the worst. It’s all explained in the season 7 opener. It makes total sense that a person not even considering being joined, and was done so unexpectedly, has a massively difficult time dealing with it.

pixelburp

Inviere wrote: »

She wasn’t ‘chosen’, though, she was the only Trill on board the ship that Jadzia was being transported on when she took a turn for the worst. It’s all explained in the season 7 opener. It makes total sense that a person not even considering being joined, and was done so unexpectedly, has a massively difficult time dealing with it.

Yeah I get the explanation, it's not that long since I started Season 7, but it's not like her manifest personality was that particularly strong or confident anyway. It's made a point of conflict during all the drama between Worf and Ezri, the former speaking what's plain from the latter's personality type that she isn't Jadzia. I think the writers forgot about what made Jadzia so magnetic a presence in the first place, and replaced her with a bit of a doormat.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah I get the explanation, it's not that long since I started Season 7, but it's not like her manifest personality was that particularly strong or confident anyway. It's made a point of conflict during all the drama between Worf and Ezri, the former speaking what's plain from the latter's personality type that she isn't Jadzia. I think the writers forgot about what made Jadzia so magnetic a presence in the first place, and replaced her with a bit of a doormat.

What made Jadzia magnetic?

Being played by a 6ft confident swimsuit model helped a lot I imagine

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

What made Jadzia magnetic?

Being played by a 6ft confident swimsuit model helped a lot I imagine

Both iterations of Dax were played by attractive women, I don't necessarily think that's a factor; but like I said the writing very definitely leant into Jadzia being this outgoing, social, try-anything-once extrovert & force of nature. Drinking, playing Tongo and eating gagh.

Now, I'd say a lot of that simply came from the earlier scripts that leant into the idea of Kurzon being the previous host & his apparent boisterous bloke'y personality - there were a lot of moments that played up the idea of Sisko & Dax being men-behaving-badly style friends of old. She was a magnetic presence in scenes, cos the writing made her that way.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Both iterations of Dax were played by attractive women, I don't necessarily think that's a factor; but like I said the writing very definitely leant into Jadzia being this outgoing, social, try-anything-once extrovert & force of nature. Drinking, playing Tongo and eating gagh.

Now, I'd say a lot of that simply came from the earlier scripts that leant into the idea of Kurzon being the previous host & his apparent boisterous bloke'y personality - there were a lot of moments that played up the idea of Sisko & Dax being men-behaving-badly style friends of old. She was a magnetic presence in scenes, cos the writing made her that way.

I remember watching a documentary where all you said is true but it all stemmed from Terri Farrell being who she was and that guiding the writers

Evade

Indricotherium wrote: »

Or they should have made another main character Dax.

Another missed opportunity.

Cassidy Yates maybe. Jake. Worf even?

That didn't work last time they tried it.

pixelburp wrote: »

What didn't make sense was writing someone so crippled with self-doubt as a flippin' therapist. They could have picked any other rank or position in Starfleet and it would have gelled better than what they picked. Who on earth would want counselling from someone appearing on the verge of tears at every juncture?

To play devil's advocate we never saw Ezri Tigan in the Prime universe she could have been more together before being joined. Or at least she would have been sure of the things she liked and not ordered food and drinks she hated out of someone else's habit.

Indricotherium

Evade wrote: »

That didn't work last time they tried it.

When?

Evade

Indricotherium wrote: »

When?

The TNG episode that introduced the Trill. They needed a host, Riker volunteered and almost died from being joined.

Indricotherium

Evade wrote: »

The TNG episode that introduced the Trill. They needed a host, Riker volunteered and almost died from being joined.

meh, just write it possible.

IvySlayer

Could a changeling hold a symbiot?

Troi was a bit useless sometimes, I agree. Guinan played the therapist role so much better. Always enjoy Guinan scenes.

Daith

IvySlayer wrote: »

Could a changeling hold a symbiot?

Troi was a bit useless sometimes, I agree. Guinan played the therapist role so much better. Always enjoy Guinan scenes.

Yeah I found this interesting. Guinan did the role better than Troi and I wonder if Sirtis was annoyed by it?

Having Troi being the bartender from the start could have been interesting but obviously not a main role.

Kinda feel the same with Vic Fontaine and Quark. I liked Vic and some of the stories but I think he took away from Quark and the bar.

Inviere

The Guinan and Troi thing kind of mirrors reality in some ways. Some people, like Guinan, are naturally insightful, wise, and comforting. This, regardless of their profession, makes them easy to talk to, helpful for advice, and come across as being very grounded people. I'd imagine not all counselors are like this, and many are book-learned; in that, they can lack the finesse needed to properly counsel people, and rely on everything coming from a book.

Not that I think Troi was a bad counsellor mind, in fact, it was quite rare we got to see her in her professional capacity, in her office, counselling people. She was more so used for her insight and telepathy on the bridge/away missions etc.

pixelburp

Guinan and Troi should have been merged into one character, and the composite left running the bar; those scenes added a touch of relatable humanity often missing in TNG generally. Seeing the crew relax and take part in pretty mundane past-times that weren't overly contrived (space tennis!) helped ground characters IMO. The common wisdom of Guinan's "tell me your troubles" bartender schtick fit nicely into the various "characters facing a hurdle" episodes.

Inviere

pixelburp wrote: »

The common wisdom of Guinan's "tell me your troubles" bartender schtick fit nicely into the various "characters facing a hurdle" episodes.

Very true.

_Kaiser_

pixelburp wrote: »

Guinan and Troi should have been merged into one character, and the composite left running the bar; those scenes added a touch of relatable humanity often missing in TNG generally. Seeing the crew relax and take part in pretty mundane past-times that weren't overly contrived (space tennis!) helped ground characters IMO. The common wisdom of Guinan's "tell me your troubles" bartender schtick fit nicely into the various "characters facing a hurdle" episodes.

Particularly effective in BOBW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1V07137IWw

Always liked the scene she had with Worf's parents too, and she was great with Picard in Yesterday's Enterprise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajpsIq1-P3A

And trading barbs with Q (although this entire episode was brilliant)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w38j0ea8HO4

As I recall though, the character wasn't very popular at the time?

coffee_cake

ha. i remembered the 10 chocolate sundaes but i'd forgotten about that showdown. i must have been a kid watching that ep

i'm willing to make an allowance for ezri only being afraid of everything since she got joined, so maybe she was competent before then, but i still think she's an impostor. i loved jadzia! she was magnetic and self assured and stole the scenes

Rawr

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Particularly effective in BOBW

As I recall though, the character wasn't very popular at the time?

I don't remember Guinan being unpopular...or more to the point I didn't dislike her myself. I often felt that whenever they wheeled out Whoopi for an episode, it was to add some gravity.

Some well remembered TNG interactions featured her, especially that BOBW moment.

"That is now your chair....Captain"

She was certainly a better Counsellor than Troi. Maybe they should have just moved the bridge equipment down to Ten-Forward and then they'd just need to go to the bar whenever they needed advice.

...they wouldn't even need a View-Screen, they could just look out of the window