Tiered cake help

Wanderer41

I would like to make and decorate a tiered cake. I like baking and decorating but I am not that experienced. The cake is for my mum's birthday but I have no ideas set in stone yet. I'm thinking of doing a Victoria sponge cake, then covering it and decorating it with fondant.
I was wondering if I do a Victoria sponge, could I still put jam and cream in the middle, with the fondant on top?
Any tips on putting the cakes on top of each other? Do you use a cake board? I see lovely cakes online, obviously by those with more experience, but I'd like to try do it well so any advice is much appreciated.
Thank you!

livedadream

Wanderer41 wrote: »

I was wondering if I do a Victoria sponge, could I still put jam and cream in the middle, with the fondant on top?

yes just be careful the fondant can get kinda sticky- moisture is baaadddd
cover it as late as possible and make sure you leave the jam and cream set first.

Wanderer41 wrote: »

Any tips on putting the cakes on top of each other?

dowels will keep them straight and balanced

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x5nupcCIng

Wanderer41 wrote: »

Do you use a cake board?

i always use a cake board for the base and depending on the occasion will use the shaped ones for each layer. it depends on the cake and structure type

a few questions you might want to ask:

how many tiers do you want?

victoria sponge is great but only for the top tier really.

you would need something sturdier for the bottom tiers.

biscuit is great for a base as its so strong, fruit cake etc.

SB_Part2

I'm not sure Victoria sponge would hold up to fondant icing and another cake on top of it but I could be wrong. For the bottom tier I would always make CBC.

You wouldn't use a cake board to put the cakes on top of each other, you'd use a board at the bottom and you'd use cake dowels to put the tiers on http://cookshop.ie/shop/937-12in-plastic-cake-dowel.html

phormium

Victoria sponge will be fine if filled covered and dowelled properly for a tiered cake.

Fresh cream is not suitable as a filling as it requires refrigeration and fondant and fridges don't mix (it gets all sticky and wet when removed from fridge and decorations can wilt and colour run, it also having a water base dissolves the fondant from underneath giving a slimy mess ). Better to use a buttercream and jam filling and a covering then of buttercream which should be put in fridge to firm up before you cover with fondant. Swiss meringue buttercream is much more cream like consistency than the ordinary stuff but a little more difficult.

There must a board (cake drum, thick ones) obviously for the bottom cake to sit on and then you put a cake card (the thin silver ones) under the tier that will be on top, if you don't put a cake card under the upper tier then the dowels have nothing to support as the top tier will just sink down on them.

For dowels if it is a small cake, for example 6" sitting on an 8" you can use sturdy thick straws, 4 placed in a square pattern an inch in from where the edges of the 6" cake will sit and cut level with the top of the fondant on the bottom tier. If you are going for a bigger cake then best to buy the proper stronger dowels from one of the cake decorating shops/online suppliers.

Wanderer41

Thanks so much for the replies! Some very good advice. Based on this, I've made some changes to my initial idea.
I will either do two or three tiers, as I'll have to see what I can manage really! I think I will do fruit cake for the bottom, and then Victoria sponge for the remaining tier(s), filled with buttercream and jam. Or, if the buttercream doesn't suit well, I'll just put jam in the sponge.
I've watched some youtube videos on this but I just have a few questions. Some videos where they were using fondant covered the whole cake in buttercream frosting. Is this advisable? Then I could just cut the cake in two, put jam in the middle, and then cover the whole cake in frosting. Then put my fondant icing on and decorate. Does this work?
Some videos also used cake boards and covered them in fondant for each tier as well as using dowels. Should I do this as well? Or are dowels enough to support the tiers?
Should I look for straw dowels or are the plastic ones easy to cut to size?

Thanks again for the help, it's much appreciated! I'm looking forward to my first try. I just have to decide on my decoration.. too many choices!!


Edit: would these be suitable? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/x20-12-Inch-Cake-Dowels-Pillars-Wedding-Tiers-Supports-Birthday-/371165114301?hash=item566b2a2fbd:g:3ZQAAOSwxH1T~duZ

phormium

I'm not quite sure I follow some of your questions but I'll answer as best I can.

Fruit cake on the bottom, that's fine.

Sponge for top tiers, fine too. Regarding frosting (I presume you mean buttercream and not a tub of Betty Crocker), you will have to have buttercream on the outside of the sponge whatever about on the inside with the jam so that you have a smooth surface for the fondant to go on, chill the buttercream covered cake well in the fridge before putting on the fondant but no fridge after fondant is on. If you were to put it straight on a bare sponge then for starters it wouldn't stick and you would get a lumpy bumpy finish. The other alternative is a layer of ganache on the outside but white chocolate ganache is difficult enough to work with.

You MUST have cake drums (the thick cake boards) or cake cards (thin cardboard silver ones) under each tier. You do not have to cover them with fondant, this would make no sense as they are meant to have the cake sitting on them and the cake would stick to the fondant, make it wet and create a slimy mess.

I'm not sure if what you are asking is can you basically put the bare bottom of the next tier cake on the fondant top of the tier below without a board of some sort, but if you are then no you cannot do that. Dowels cannot support the tiers if there is no barrier between tiers, a cake would not stay sitting on 4 dowels, the weight would just make it sink down and the dowels would just keep going up into the upper tier if there is not a firm barrier of card for support. From a cutting point of view anyway you need to be able to lift off that tier so a board of some sort is essential.

Any cake dowels will do but fine thick straws would do for the sponge, if you are dowelling the fruit you will need a solid thinner one which would be easier to push through the fruit cake. I don't dowel fruit cake myself but I know my cake is really firm and well matured so it depends on the cake itself. Most fruit cakes would take the weight of two light sponge tiers, for safety maybe one dowel in centre of it just to spread the weight of the top tiers.

Are you transporting this cake somewhere or is it staying put when make?

Wanderer41

phormium wrote: »

I'm not quite sure I follow some of your questions but I'll answer as best I can.

Fruit cake on the bottom, that's fine.

Sponge for top tiers, fine too. Regarding frosting (I presume you mean buttercream and not a tub of Betty Crocker), you will have to have buttercream on the outside of the sponge whatever about on the inside with the jam so that you have a smooth surface for the fondant to go on, chill the buttercream covered cake well in the fridge before putting on the fondant but no fridge after fondant is on. If you were to put it straight on a bare sponge then for starters it wouldn't stick and you would get a lumpy bumpy finish. The other alternative is a layer of ganache on the outside but white chocolate ganache is difficult enough to work with.

You MUST have cake drums (the thick cake boards) or cake cards (thin cardboard silver ones) under each tier. You do not have to cover them with fondant, this would make no sense as they are meant to have the cake sitting on them and the cake would stick to the fondant, make it wet and create a slimy mess.

I'm not sure if what you are asking is can you basically put the bare bottom of the next tier cake on the fondant top of the tier below without a board of some sort, but if you are then no you cannot do that. Dowels cannot support the tiers if there is no barrier between tiers, a cake would not stay sitting on 4 dowels, the weight would just make it sink down and the dowels would just keep going up into the upper tier if there is not a firm barrier of card for support. From a cutting point of view anyway you need to be able to lift off that tier so a board of some sort is essential.

Any cake dowels will do but fine thick straws would do for the sponge, if you are dowelling the fruit you will need a solid thinner one which would be easier to push through the fruit cake. I don't dowel fruit cake myself but I know my cake is really firm and well matured so it depends on the cake itself. Most fruit cakes would take the weight of two light sponge tiers, for safety maybe one dowel in centre of it just to spread the weight of the top tiers.

Are you transporting this cake somewhere or is it staying put when make?

Thank you so much for your reply, it's really helpful! I think I have a clearer view on what I have to do now.
I'll be making my own homemade buttercream so that should be okay. I think I will buy those dowels in my link or similar for my trial run and see how they go. I have a while to practise so I'll get it right at some stage

Thank you again, hopefully it will turn out well! I'll just have to decide on my decoration then. I'll be broke after buying all the fondant :P

phormium

Good luck with it.

Only noticed your link with the dowels now, these are available in any of the cake decorating shops like Decobake or online or also from Stuff4cakes.ie