Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM **Spoilers**

Kaisr Sose

xxyyzz wrote: »

He looks up for it (Quintana). Sky look knackered.

There was no devastating kick in Quintannas two attacks. Knew he had not got it at that stage. Don't thing Froome was on a flier of a day either - he was not tight in his team mates wheels at that point but he is going well-just not super well!

MrMischief

Out of interest...were there any more issues once the yellow jersey group went through as I'd imagine there would be more of a funnelling affect with the number of riders in each group.

neris

The Giro push from 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw_8Gj7SIm0

Flechas crash in 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJEtNfnDLCk

Kaisr Sose

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Can't quite understand why Froome wasn't able to ride the neutral service bike. Would be interesting to see in more detail.

I mean, if Jens can do it, surely the greatest cyclist in the world can do it.

Wrong pedals?
Bike too small?

Normal reasons ...

Or his cleats were mashed from his 200m dash? They would not like the abuse of a 200m race up Ventoux!

retalivity

Ridiculous precedent set, All the more galling when they got away with that joke of a neutralisation earlier.

Kaisr Sose

isitraining wrote: »

The least elegant looking Kenyan running I've ever seen!

Same style as Paula Radcliffe - I always said Chris cycled a bike like Paula Radcliffe ran, but I never thought he would also run like her!

retalivity

So if say on another day quintana cannot follow a froome attack, can he turn into the fans or a moto, manufacture a crash, mosey on up the hill after and get the time difference nullified??

MrMischief

retalivity wrote: »

So if say on another day quintana cannot follow a froome attack, can he turn into the fans or a moto, manufacture a crash, mosey on up the hill after and get the time difference nullified??

Well thats the precedent that has been set....look forward to Ronaldo taking up cycling so he can dive off his bike and still win a race!

Kaisr Sose

kenmc wrote: »

don't see why he couldn't have taken his bike with him instead of littering the place. his team car had to stop to collect it anyway, causing chaos anyway. then he would have completed the distance with his bike.

You are thinking with a clear head, no pressure and no yellow jersey on your shoulders...bringing the bike made no sense anyway. Clearly Froome thinks clear under pressure—more marginal gains to aggregate for Sir Dave!

odyssey06

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but the way the ASO have done it they have deemed the match over at that stage. Froome was ahead, but who knows what the others could have done in the final few minutes. They might well have been holding a bit back to claw back as Froome slowed down.
So basically (and of course this is not Froomes fault) you can launch a massive attack and if you are starting to struggle fall off your bike and they'll just give you the stage end. That an extreme, but once you go down this route it is very hard to draw a line.
Contador crashed and nobody waited for him. What about the Giro when Steven Kruijswijk crashed? Why not wait for him or neutralise the stage then?
I'm not against Froome not loosing out due to this, but to end up gaining because of it?

Contador crashes were an in sport event. It was the equivalent of say, Ronaldo going off injured as a result of a tackle by another player in the Euro Championship final. That's "all in the game". This is totally different sporting situation. I don't see how anyone can compare deliberately falling off your bike with being taken out due to an incident like this.
What's hard is knowing how to compensate for the incident, but any kind of time penalty for someone in this situation would make a mockery of the sport of cycling. It's not hard to recognise that this is an exceptional circumstance demanding exceptional action.
It's not a sport as far as I'm concerned if outside human intervention can take out a competitor in the course of the event and the authorities allow the result to stand.
If this differs from how similar recent incidents were dealt with e.g. at the Giro, the only conclusion to be drawn is that those decisions were wrong.

GT_TDI_150

Didnt realise they gave Porte and Froome the same time as Molema ...

The initial impression I got was that they took the gaps from the time of the crash, but this is evenmore ridiculous.

Like said above, what if Mollema had decided to saunter up the hill? what time would they have gone for then?

GT_TDI_150

To use the football analogy ...

Sunderland ... beach ball ... Liverpool ... 1-0.

That was as clear a case of fan intervention we've seen in recent years in football ... I dont remember that result being reversed.

MrMischief

Not an easy call but certainly the wrong one....If this was Dimension Data today it wouldn't have even got a mention!

PeadarCo

retalivity wrote:

So if say on another day quintana cannot follow a froome attack, can he turn into the fans or a moto, manufacture a crash, mosey on up the hill after and get the time difference nullified??

Or another way of looking at it is that one day Quintana/x rider can't follow Froome/x competitor, what's to stop one of their fans from bumping into Froome. Its not like fans haven't deliberately inferred with the race before. It happened in the tours earliest years. Still the whole situation was a mess.


For anyone who compares the incident to diving in football have a look at the accident. It's not as if he caused it on purpose. With regard to Froomes earlier stop that was a peloton decision. Its not as if the other teams were forced to slow down. Its not like what Cancellara did a few years ago when he got the commisare to neutralize a stage because the Shlecks didn't like cobbles.
Some rider's always have more influence. If you read sean kellys autobiography you'll get an idea of the control hinault had at times.

Pudsy33

neris wrote: »

Giro 2014 on the Zoncalon. The 2nd on the road was pushed into the rear wheel of michael rodgers and lost touch with him.

Frencesco Bongiorno. Was only talking about that today with my dad. He was shafted

Kaisr Sose

Burial. wrote: »

They are taking the times from 1km away apparently. Sad day for cycling, to see spectators and bikes create so much havoc as well as favouritism being given to some teams. Gutted for the likes of Mollema. Contador and the group he was in in '11 didn't get the same treatment when they were taken out

He is much further down the mountain than that...he retired on Sunday

Pudsy33

C3PO wrote: »

So every time a crazy fan doesn't fancy a race leader he just knocks him off his bike?
I think todays solution is the fairest under the, very difficult, circumstances!

As Cosmo Catalano said on twitter. Either the race was fair for all, or not. All gaps stand, or stage neutralised. Can't have a jury inventing hypothetical finishing times.

Kaisr Sose

nee wrote: »

Gerrans out of the tour with a broken collarbone

https://twitter.com/simongerrans/status/753647209615327232?lang=en

Now that is BAD LUCK!

carltonleon

Just as well for Dan that the stage was shortened or else he could have lost 3/4 mins.

Weepsie

Have they adjusted times again? Quintana is now in 3rd at 54 seconds behind and Mollema in 4th at 56? Did they possibly take into account that Yates, Quintana and their group were apparently closing the gap?

Burial.

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

He is much further down the mountain than that...he retired on Sunday

Read my post again. The 2011 tour. Contador would have podiumed that year had he received the same treatment Froome did today. And more significantly was Cadel Evans in the Vuelta of 2009 where a blockage more than less f*cked up his GC hopes deep into the GT...again nothing done about it. Evans himself said it cost him overall victory.

odyssey06

They must be estimating the finishing times using a pools panel decision, or some sort of Duckworth-Lewis method... neutralisation would have been a more reasonable response to exceptional outside (human - not act of god) intervention.

07Lapierre

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Would this not be similar to Porte taking a wheel from one of the Orica boys last year ...

I reckon Froome should be penalised for not completing the entire stage on the bike. Expultion would be ridiculous, but surely a time penalty is called for.

Some might say he did it in the heat of the moment, wasnt thinking clearly. Same could be said for Porte last season ... he still had to take the penalty.

Careful now...you don't want to be accused of being dense for mentioning penalties! 😄

Kaisr Sose

Daroxtar wrote: »

Anyhoo...
Poor old Chris, he spends the past few days winning over everyone with mental descending and getting in the break with Sagan, and now everyone hates him again through no fault of his own. I loved that "WTF did you just say?" moment when the interviewer said his legs seemed to be working fine

Yea, Chris dos not get the sarcasm in the question!

retalivity

Weepsie wrote: »

Have they adjusted times again? Quintana is now in 3rd at 54 seconds behind and Mollema in 4th at 56? Did they possibly take into account that Yates, Quintana and their group were apparently closing the gap?

Yup, for soem reason Quintana, valverde and tvg got the same time as aru et al, although they were initially 6 seconds behind them. Equally ridiculous and no explanation yet as to why

MrMischief

carltonleon wrote: »

Just as well for Dan that the stage was shortened or else he could have lost 3/4 mins.

If the stage wasn't shortened, Movistar/Sky wouldn't have attacked as early and the steeper inclines up to Mont Ventoux would have actually suited Dan so I don't agree! He looked like he was getting back in anyway prior to the crash.....

Burial.

Is there anything to be said for another mass Ventoux stage

xxyyzz

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

There was no devastating kick in Quintannas two attacks. Knew he had not got it at that stage. Don't thing Froome was on a flier of a day either - he was not tight in his team mates wheels at that point but he is going well-just not super well!

Yeah, I though he was having a few digs to thin out the sky riders who looked like they were tiring but then... nothing. He seems to be well out of form.

GT_TDI_150

How was Froome just able to get up and run? I cant make 2 threads of a stairs after a bike ride ... No Jello legs for froome after hours on the bike?!

GT_TDI_150

Burial. wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another mass Ventoux stage

Cancel the TT ... up Ventoux again instead!