Ireland Under 20 2017 6 Nations/Junior World Cup

rughug

case885 wrote: »

Bill Johnston expected to be back fit and available in three weeks for the French game.
That's surprising as he was said to be out for 8-12 weeks towards the end of December.

Word is that he has made himself unavailable for the 6 Nations tournament to focus on Munster.
If he does become available then you have 5 outhalves in the squad , none of whom are comfortable at 12.

kittyeater102

rughug wrote: »

Word is that he has made himself unavailable for the 6 Nations tournament to focus on Munster.
If he does become available then you have 5 outhalves in the squad , none of whom are comfortable at 12.

Dean,Frawley, McPhillips and ?. Also, I don't really think McPhillips is a ten. He'l do the job till Johnston is back but thats about it.Don't know much about Frawley. Dean will see very little gametime I'd say.Next year will be his year.Surprised he got in at all to be honest.

rughug

kittyeater102 wrote: »

Dean,Frawley, McPhillips and ?. Also, I don't really think McPhillips is a ten. He'l do the job till Johnston is back but thats about it.Don't know much about Frawley. Dean will see very little gametime I'd say.Next year will be his year.Surprised he got in at all to be honest.

Fitzgerald from Munster. And we may be " stuck" with Mc Phillips .
Can we expect to win 3 from 5 games ?

rughug

kittyeater102 wrote: »

Dean,Frawley, McPhillips and ?. Also, I don't really think McPhillips is a ten. He'l do the job till Johnston is back but thats about it.Don't know much about Frawley. Dean will see very little gametime I'd say.Next year will be his year.Surprised he got in at all to be honest.

Think its fair to say that Dean is in this year because of Daddy , and similar may be said of Mullen. Probably does help that they are ex Blackrock College , with Peter Smyth etc.

the baby bull elephant

rughug wrote: »

Think its fair to say that Dean is in this year because of Daddy , and similar may be said of Mullen. Probably does help that they are ex Blackrock College , with Peter Smyth etc.

I'd imagine Dean is in because of his performances in the top amateur league in Ireland.

rughug

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

I'd imagine Dean is in because of his performances in the top amateur league in Ireland.

Not likely. Dean was carried a year young on both the Leinster Schools and Irish Schools teams and his performance was average at best. His performances for Marys this past 6 months have been average at best.
It does help when your father is highly regarded within Leinster Branch and IRFU circles.

bilston

rughug wrote: »

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

I'd imagine Dean is in because of his performances in the top amateur league in Ireland.

Not likely. Dean was carried a year young on both the Leinster Schools and Irish Schools teams and his performance was average at best. His performances for Marys this past 6 months have been average at best.
It does help when your father is highly regarded within Leinster Branch and IRFU circles.

I can never tell if the old nepotism argument is accurate or just bitterness.

rughug

bilston wrote: »

I can never tell if the old nepotism argument is accurate or just bitterness.

Time will tell !

Bridge93

What say does Peter Smyth have with the Irish 20s? And now we're questioning the integrity of Nigel Carolan and his selectors. Wonderful, this thread will quickly go the way of the schools one

rughug

Bridge93 wrote: »

What say does Peter Smyth have with the Irish 20s? And now we're questioning the integrity of Nigel Carolan and his selectors. Wonderful, this thread will quickly go the way of the schools one

So you think Peter Smyth as head of the Leinster Academy doesn't have any interaction / influence with regard to putting forward the Leinster contingent for the national 20s. He knows well that he will prob be taking in an outhalf in to the sub academy this year and it's pretty much a given that one has to have Ireland u20 credentials . I'm just opening up debate. This thread doesn't need to go the way of the schools one. I'm not questioning the integrity of Nigel Carolan or his selectors. They pretty much work with what the provincial gurus feed them.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

I can never tell if the old nepotism argument is accurate or just bitterness.

Bitterness. Maybe in the Ruddock days there might have been some prospect of it being anything else, but obviously Carolan isn't going to be working to boost the Leinster academy

Bridge93

rughug wrote: »

So you think Peter Smyth as head of the Leinster Academy doesn't have any interaction / influence with regard to putting forward the Leinster contingent for the national 20s. He knows well that he will prob be taking in an outhalf in to the sub academy this year and it's pretty much a given that one has to have Ireland u20 credentials . I'm just opening up debate. This thread doesn't need to go the way of the schools one. I'm not questioning the integrity of Nigel Carolan or his selectors. They pretty much work with what the provincial gurus feed them.

The coaches don't exist in a bubble. They watch the players themselves you know and can come to their own decisions with the help of provincial coaches. To suggest that Carolan and the selectors have chosen players based on who their parents are and the influence they exert on regional branches is absolutely questioning their integrity unless you believe they have their hands over their eyes and pick solely on listening to some blazers in Leinster helping old friends. Suggesting nepotism plays a role is questioning their integrity.

Do you not think if nepotism was rife that Tim Schmidt would've had more of a look in? Maybe you're just sore that your prediction earlier in the thread that neither Dean or Mullen had any chance of making the squad was wrong? Whatever the case your posting history about a certain school makes this whole opinion unsurprising

For what it's worth I personally wouldn't have picked Mullen either

Stainalert

rughug wrote: »

Not likely. Dean was carried a year young on both the Leinster Schools and Irish Schools teams and his performance was average at best. His performances for Marys this past 6 months have been average at best.
It does help when your father is highly regarded within Leinster Branch and IRFU circles.

A guy straight out of school playing 1A rugby is definitely not average. A lot of of the named 20s squad do not have 1A experience.

typhoony

not sure if it's been said already but RTE2 are showing live coverage of the 1st game in scotland

Hagz

Stainalert wrote: »

A guy straight out of school playing 1A rugby is definitely not average. A lot of of the named 20s squad do not have 1A experience.

Only 5 of the 32 man squad who are able to play Div 1A haven't got 1A experience. 16 of the squad have played multiple times in 1A this season, almost all of them straight out of school. The remaining 11 just aren't able to play 1A because their clubs are in 1B and 2A, but the majority of them have played B&I cup rugby, u20s last year and some senior rugby as well.

Not downplaying Dean's achievements, but the fact that he's playing 1A rugby is fairly standard.

Stainalert

Hagz wrote: »

Only 5 of the 32 man squad who are able to play Div 1A haven't got 1A experience. 16 of the squad have played multiple times in 1A this season, almost all of them straight out of school. The remaining 11 just aren't able to play 1A because their clubs are in 1B and 2A, but the majority of them have played B&I cup rugby, u20s last year and some senior rugby as well.

Not downplaying Dean's achievements, but the fact that he's playing 1A rugby is fairly standard.

Who are the 5?

Stainalert

Hagz wrote: »

Only 5 of the 32 man squad who are able to play Div 1A haven't got 1A experience. 16 of the squad have played multiple times in 1A this season, almost all of them straight out of school. The remaining 11 just aren't able to play 1A because their clubs are in 1B and 2A, but the majority of them have played B&I cup rugby, u20s last year and some senior rugby as well.

Not downplaying Dean's achievements, but the fact that he's playing 1A rugby is fairly standard.

Rughug was questioning Dean's inclusion in the squad making the point that Dean had been pretty ordinary for Marys in 1A - I am just making the point that a guy just out of school playing 1A is not ordinary - most don't.

rughug

Stainalert wrote: »

Rughug was questioning Dean's inclusion in the squad making the point that Dean had been pretty ordinary for Marys in 1A - I am just making the point that a guy just out of school playing 1A is not ordinary - most don't.

Doris and Larmour have done . Doris is u20 again next year and is in the same league ability wise as James Ryan , and is a shoe in for captain next year. Larmour is a year older , but again is an exceptional talent.
O Brien , also underage next year has had a few good outings with UCD but I'm just not convinced that were Dean to start at 10 against say Wales , England or France that he would get the job done.

espn091

Dean was starting at outhalf in 1A as a under-19, that is pretty rare to see.

espn091

Rory Mulvihill, Ronan Kelleher, Charlie Connolly and Gavin Mullin are the 4 lads who haven't played 1A.

Stainalert

rughug wrote: »

Doris and Larmour have done . Doris is u20 again next year and is in the same league ability wise as James Ryan , and is a shoe in for captain next year. Larmour is a year older , but again is an exceptional talent.
O Brien , also underage next year has had a few good outings with UCD but I'm just not convinced that were Dean to start at 10 against say Wales , England or France that he would get the job done.

I don't think Doris and Larmour are ordinary either

Stainalert

espn091 wrote: »

Rory Mulvihill, Ronan Kelleher, Charlie Connolly and Gavin Mullin are the 4 lads who haven't played 1A.

Think you can add Oisin Dowling there as well

espn091

Doris & Larmour are exceptional, I'd put Dean a level below them talent wise.

Could be right on Dowling, I thought he had played senior but that may have been leinster senior cup.

Stainalert

espn091 wrote: »

Doris & Larmour are exceptional, I'd put Dean a level below them talent wise.

Could be right on Dowling, I thought he had played senior but that may have been leinster senior cup.

Yea was senior cup

wp_rathead

Are Rte showing or streaming the u20s?
The TV block is blank for all the fixtures :
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/results_and_fixtures_ireland_u20.php

The Lost Sheep

wp_rathead wrote: »

Are Rte showing or streaming the u20s?
The TV block is blank for all the fixtures :
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/results_and_fixtures_ireland_u20.php

Friday night theyre showing both ladies and 20s on RTE2. Dont know about other weeks but think theyll be showing all live..

kittyeater102

Kelly and Doris will definitely play for Leinster possibly even Ireland someday. There's always 1 or 2 who emerge from nowhere though. Tommy O'Brien is a guy I want to see. Missed the senior cup last year through injury. Larmour and lyttle also promising players albeit a bit undersized.

THFC198

Will jack Kelly play 13 or 15 do we think? I know he's played the majority of his rugby at 13 but his past year at school and AIL level has been at 15 so I would've thought that's his best position

kittyeater102

THFC198 wrote: »

Will jack Kelly play 13 or 15 do we think? I know he's played the majority of his rugby at 13 but his past year at school and AIL level has been at 15 so I would've thought that's his best position

He'l play 15. Calvin Nash will be 13. I'd be shocked if that wasn't the case.

wp_rathead

kittyeater102 wrote: »

Kelly and Doris will definitely play for Leinster possibly even Ireland someday . There's always 1 or 2 who emerge from nowhere though. Tommy O'Brien is a guy I want to see. Missed the senior cup last year through injury. Larmour and lyttle also promising players albeit a bit undersized.

Doris is a Mayo lad, isn't he? Would hope he could be lured back west

espn091

Doris is more Blackrock than Mayo, in personality, accent etc.

It wouldn't be a shock at all for Kelly to play 13, that is where lined up in warm up games.

Hagz

espn091 wrote: »

Rory Mulvihill, Ronan Kelleher, Charlie Connolly and Gavin Mullin are the 4 lads who haven't played 1A.

Mulvihill has made a couple of appearances for UCD in 1A this season. The other player I was talking about was Jack Lyons. He doesn't seem to have made an appearance for Young Munster this season.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

espn091 wrote: »

Rory Mulvihill, Ronan Kelleher, Charlie Connolly and Gavin Mullin are the 4 lads who haven't played 1A.

Mulvihill has made a couple of appearances for UCD in 1A this season. The other player I was talking about was Jack Lyons. He doesn't seem to have made an appearance for Young Munster this season.

Surely a few of the Ulster lads wouldn't have played 1A unless they were all with Ballynahinch last season?

espn091

Jack Lyons has played for Young Munster, possibly it was in the Munster Senior Cup.

Stainalert

Hagz wrote: »

Mulvihill has made a couple of appearances for UCD in 1A this season. The other player I was talking about was Jack Lyons. He doesn't seem to have made an appearance for Young Munster this season.

Fair enough didn't think Mulvihill had played AIL

Hagz

bilston wrote: »

Surely a few of the Ulster lads wouldn't have played 1A unless they were all with Ballynahinch last season?

They were part of the 11 players I mentioned who aren't able to play 1A this season.

jm08

Anyone know what the story is with Alan Tynan, Young Munster's outhalf. Why isn't he making the squads at least? Is there too much competition? He seems to be doing well with Young Munster and has played Munster 'A'.

espn091

other outhavles chosen ahead of him.. all of whom are also starting in the AIL.

jm08

espn091 wrote: »

other outhavles chosen ahead of him.. all of whom are also starting in the AIL.

Thats good news to hear that there are so many good outhalfs around. Tynan gets an excellent rating from papers this weekend.

case885

jm08 wrote:

Thats good news to hear that there are so many good outhalfs around. Tynan gets an excellent rating from papers this weekend.

He very versatile as well, plays 15 a lot and came on at 14 for Munster A in bandon and did very well.
A shoe in for the academy next year I'd imagine.

kittyeater102

espn091 wrote: »

Doris is more Blackrock than Mayo, in personality, accent etc.

It wouldn't be a shock at all for Kelly to play 13, that is where lined up in warm up games.

Well I watched them train on the back pitch at donnybrook after the blackrock game and he was playing 15

espn091

Ireland u20 team:

Ireland u20 team:

1. Joey Conway(Munster/UL Bohs)
2. Tadgh McElroy(Leinster/Lansdowne)
3. Peter Cooper(Ulster/Belfast Harlequins)
4. Fineen Whycherly(Munster/Young Munster)
5. Oisin Dowling(Leinster/Lansdowne)
6. Cillian Gallagher(Connacht/Corinthians)
7. Paul Boyle(Leinster/Lansdowne)
8. Caelan Doris(Leinster/St. Marys)
9. Jonny Stewart(Ulster/Queens)
10. Johnny McPhillips(Ulster/Ballynahinch)
11. Colm Hogan(Munster/DUFC)
12. Ciaran Frawley(Leinster/UCD)
13. Gavin Mullin(Leinster/UCD)
14. Jordan Larmour(Leinster/St. Marys)
15. Jack Kelly(Leinster/DUFC)
16. Adam Moloney(Munster/Shannon)
17. Rory Mulvihill(Leinster/UCD)
18. Charlie Connolly(Leinster/DUFC)
19. Jack Regan(Leinster/UCD)
20. Marcus Rea(Ulster/Queens)
21. Jack Lyons(Munster/Young Munster)
22. Conor Fitzgerald(Munster/Shannon)
23. Tommy O'Brien(Leinster/UCD)

rughug

espn091 wrote: »

Ireland u20 team:

Ireland u20 team:

1. Joey Conway(Munster/UL Bohs)
2. Tadgh McElroy(Leinster/Lansdowne)
3. Peter Cooper(Ulster/Belfast Harlequins)
4. Fineen Whycherly(Munster/Young Munster)
5. Oisin Dowling(Leinster/Lansdowne)
6. Cillian Gallagher(Connacht/Corinthians)
7. Paul Boyle(Leinster/Lansdowne)
8. Caelan Doris(Leinster/St. Marys)
9. Jonny Stewart(Ulster/Queens)
10. Johnny McPhillips(Ulster/Ballynahinch)
11. Colm Hogan(Munster/DUFC)
12. Ciaran Frawley(Leinster/UCD)
13. Gavin Mullin(Leinster/UCD)
14. Jordan Larmour(Leinster/St. Marys)
15. Jack Kelly(Leinster/DUFC)
16. Adam Moloney(Munster/Shannon)
17. Rory Mulvihill(Leinster/UCD)
18. Charlie Connolly(Leinster/DUFC)
19. Jack Regan(Leinster/UCD)
20. Marcus Rea(Ulster/Queens)
21. Jack Lyons(Munster/Young Munster)
22. Conor Fitzgerald(Munster/Shannon)
23. Tommy O'Brien(Leinster/UCD)

Frawley at 12. ??? Defensively ???

kingofthekong

Frawley at 12? dear lord, Carolan always has a few strange selections in his teams..

kingofthekong

Whats Paul Boyle like as a player? never seen him. Thats a sizeable backrow which is good to see, not a pack to compete at the breakdown by the looks of it, Carolan seemingly favoring ball carriers, interesting to see how they get on.
Best of luck to them, Scotland can be tough to beat at home in the u20's.

wp_rathead

Apparently Nash is involved with Munster?

kingofthekong

Ireland website always seems sluggish when uploading player profiles, the England website is very good at getting the u20 teams up fast.

Stainalert

kingofthekong wrote: »

Whats Paul Boyle like as a player? never seen him. Thats a sizeable backrow which is good to see, not a pack to compete at the breakdown by the looks of it, Carolan seemingly favoring ball carriers, interesting to see how they get on.
Best of luck to them, Scotland can be tough to beat at home in the u20's.

Smart player, more at home at 8 or 6. Excellent work rate. Physically not as big as Doris. Good ball player.

kingofthekong

wp_rathead wrote: »

Apparently Nash is involved with Munster?

You'd think Munster would let the lad play in the u20's surely they have someone else that can come in for a few games? , either way if Ireland dont perform well on Friday their are plenty of players to come into the side to improve it : Lyttle, Coombes, Dean, Nash, Johnston and more. There seems to be plenty of options availible to Carolan for the season

kingofthekong

Stainalert wrote: »

kingofthekong wrote: »

Whats Paul Boyle like as a player? never seen him. Thats a sizeable backrow which is good to see, not a pack to compete at the breakdown by the looks of it, Carolan seemingly favoring ball carriers, interesting to see how they get on.
Best of luck to them, Scotland can be tough to beat at home in the u20's.

Smart player, more at home at 8 or 6. Excellent work rate. Physically not as big as Doris. Good ball player.

Thanks, Boyle seems massive from photos I've seen of him on sportsfile etc, Really excited to see Doris