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Are the gards always useless??
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14-07-2016 10:39am#1I was assulted on the 3rd of July by 3 guys in a bright daylight and got a broken nose. One of them was carrying a metal bar and luckily jost got beaten in my body not my head with the bar. My partner took a picture of the car's reg number. She contacted the gards straight away and drove me to the hospital. 2 gards showed up in the hospital taking statement and reg number and all that. I was told I would be contacted within 2-3 days. But the only thing was a letter from them saying it was reported and the name of the gard in charge. A week passed by no calles. I tried calling and talking to her but she was never in. Eventually my partner got to talk into her 10 days later when I was in the hospital having surgery on my nose for that assult. She said she would call the following day to come and get a statement. Statement??? Yes she said they had to get another statement, a formal one and they could not do any thing with only the reg number.
We were waiting for her call yesterday nothing (eventhought she said she would be in all day) called the station many time to talk to her but nowhere to be found.
Are the gards always useless????11
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/me subscribes and gets popcorn.0
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Sorry you've had such a bad experience.
The answer is "No".0 -
Its Guards.0
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Are we going to get the full story here or just the part that makes you out to be the victim?0
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Its Gardai actually.0
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Are we going to get the full story here or just the part that makes you out to be the victim?
Just didn't wanna make it too long but have no reason to hide it.
I was working on Sunday and was driving with my girlfriend beside me. The car in front of me stopped in the middle of the road for over a min and I beeped at him. The driver was pissed off but tried to park but the one that wanted to start the fight was the back passenger who was opening the door to get out of the car and was swearing at me when I passed by. I said the **** off and drove off. The driver was still parking but then they decided to follow me. I tried to avoid any trouble but got stock at a traffic light and could do nothing when so the metal bar0 -
LOSE DE HAHITUDE!!! :mad:0
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Can you go to the station where she works and make a complaint that she has not been helpful etc, give the details of the situation and ask for another guard to handle your case instead?0
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One_Of_Shanks wrote: »Can you go to the station where she works and make a complaint that she has not been helpful etc, give the details of the situation and ask for another guard to handle your case instead?
Yes that is a good idea. I will do that today.0 -
Super efficient at handing out fines though0
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Yes that is a good idea. I will do that today.
That's not how it works tbh.
How do you know how many more people she has to deal with? You cannot expect her or him to drop everyone else because someone else reports something.
You also dont know what shift she is working etc
You might not be her priority OP.
To answer your question NO not all gardai are useless.0 -
That's not how it works tbh.
How do you know how many more people she has to deal with? You cannot expect her or him to drop everyone else because someone else reports something.
You also dont know what shift she is working etc
You might not be her priority OP.
To answer your question NO not all gardai are useless.
I never expect to drop all the cases just because of my case. But it is almost 2 weeks and nothing has been done.
And about her shifts, either myself or my partner tried to call during her shift but again she was not in.
This has already happened to me but the point is that those who did this me will do worse if they see no consequence to their action.0 -
I never expect to drop all the cases just because of my case. But it is almost 2 weeks and nothing has been done.
And about her shifts, either myself or my partner tried to call during her shift but again she was not in.
This has already happened to me but the point is that those who did this me will do worse if they see no consequence to their action.
Its ten days ago it happened, not that long tbh.
She will have been off 4/5 days in this time and will also be working nights when she cannot contact you.
Im sure she will get to you in time.0 -
I never expect to drop all the cases just because of my case. But it is almost 2 weeks and nothing has been done.
And about her shifts, either myself or my partner tried to call during her shift but again she was not in.
This has already happened to me but the point is that those who did this me will do worse if they see no consequence to their action.
Sorry you have had this bad experience OP, no not all guards are useless, some definitely are though.
In this case, we don't know why she hasn't been in touch, there could be a good genuine reason.
However you are entitled to have your crime investigated expeditiously , so do call to the station.
My advice would be, ask for a sergeant or if at a bigger station an inspector, explain you wish to have your incident investigated properly, it sounds like quite a serious incident.
Also, don't go in just complaining about the guard in question, as we really don't know why she hasn't done anything, there may be a good reason.
Stand your ground & be polite, two weeks with no statement taken really isn't acceptable.0 -
Its ten days ago it happened, not that long tbh.
She will have been off 4/5 days in this time and will also be working nights when she cannot contact you.
Im sure she will get to you in time.
Unfortunately I can not mention the nationality of those who were involved as I think it is against the website's policy. But can mention the fact that to my opinion it is taking too long and if no action is taken fast I would very much doubt they will be able to do anything with them.0 -
Unfortunately I can not mention the nationality of those who were involved as I think it is against the website's policy. But can mention the fact that to my opinion it is taking too long and if no action is taken fast I would very much doubt they will be able to do anything with them.
She might be waiting on Cctv from the area. Its not long tbh OP. There are only so many hours in the day and her workload could be big, she might be in court etc. It's never as simple as it looks.
Give her time and she will contact you.
Going to her Sgt or Inspector will just move her other cases around and someone will always be unhappy.0 -
10 days for a serious assault is way too long
If her workload is more important than this case then your case needs to be moved to a new officer.
As regards OP no not all Garda are useless but unfortunately with no real performance management , those that are can coast through their 35 years service with very little implications0 -
Sorry you have had this bad experience OP, no not all guards are useless, some definitely are though.
In this case, we don't know why she hasn't been in touch, there could be a good genuine reason.
However you are entitled to have your crime investigated expeditiously , so do call to the station.
My advice would be, ask for a sergeant or if at a bigger station an inspector, explain you wish to have your incident investigated properly, it sounds like quite a serious incident.
Also, don't go in just complaining about the guard in question, as we really don't know why she hasn't done anything, there may be a good reason.
Stand your ground & be polite, two weeks with no statement taken really isn't acceptable.
You are absolutely right. But when myself or my partner contact the station they say we have to talk to the guard in charge and they know nothing about it. Then we tried so many times to contact within her hours but unsuccessful.
Around half an hour ago I called another number that was in the letter sent to me called helpline number. As I had never had any knowledge on what to do in these cases I called to know if I had to do anything to bring the ones who assulted me to court. The answer was I could ask for compensation of any type through "Criminal injury compensation" which means the people who assulted me will not be responsible for those costs but the tax payers "including myself" will be responsible. Well I have no intention of punishing hard working people. I want the people who assulted me to get a lesson not others0 -
From what I understand, OP, they have up to six months to begin an investigation into a case although someone may correct me on this. It can sometimes be difficult to track a Guard in question as others have pointed out. They can be on their day off, on training or on annual leave.
When you ring the Garda station ask when the investigating guard is next on duty and make sure to ring at that time. Without being seen to harrass I would suggest you call the station once a week to get an update. If you still feel you are not getting an adequate response ask for the name of the superintendant and drop them a letter outlining your attempts to get a response.0 -
You are absolutely right. But when myself or my partner contact the station they say we have to talk to the guard in charge and they know nothing about it. Then we tried so many times to contact within her hours but unsuccessful.
Around half an hour ago I called another number that was in the letter sent to me called helpline number. As I had never had any knowledge on what to do in these cases I called to know if I had to do anything to bring the ones who assulted me to court. The answer was I could ask for compensation of any type through "Criminal injury compensation" which means the people who assulted me will not be responsible for those costs but the tax payers "including myself" will be responsible. Well I have no intention of punishing hard working people. I want the people who assulted me to get a lesson not others
Go to the station and speak to the sergeant on duty face to face.
Or ring the station & ask to speak with the superintendent .
You just need someone to start the investigation sooner rather than later.0 -
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TBH the fact that op titled the thread slurring all Garda makes me wonder what he was up to to need the "assistance" of the Gardai in this case.
My experience is people with a chip on their shoulder towards all Gardai generally fall on the wrong side of the law and never have a positive reason to interact with them.
Have had a few reasons to call on the Gardai over the years and found them helpful and professional in most cases.
Like in any job, the majority are sound, some are exceptional and some are useless.
They have a **** job to do and dealing with people like op who presume they are all useless must be common and frustrating.0 -
Maybe this is the only interaction the OP has had with gardai ?
He doesn't appear to be well versed on what happens when you are a victim & he might not even be Irish.
He got any help from other gardai he has dealings with since the incident, so I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt this time.
He's probably just frustrated.
Believe me, I know all about anti Garda rants!0 -
While it might be true in some cases it's a different issue. It can sometimes be quite difficult and take time to track down an investigating Guard as a few posters have mentioned because of various reasons around their availabilty.TBH the fact that op titled the thread slurring all Garda makes me wonder what he was up to to need the "assistance" of the Gardai in this case.
My experience is people with a chip on their shoulder towards all Gardai generally fall on the wrong side of the law and never have a positive reason to interact with them.0 -
Maybe this is the only interaction the OP has had with gardai ?
He doesn't appear to be well versed on what happens when you are a victim & he might not even be Irish.
He got any help from other gardai he has dealings with since the incident, so I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt this time.
He's probably just frustrated.
Believe me, I know all about anti Garda rants!
just to point out it happened on the 03/07/16 and today is the 14/07/16. OP stated he had surgery on the 13/07/16 that is yesterday. it takes times to investigate crime.
Only the investigating member will have the details.
He appears to be able to slag off our gardai calling them useless.0 -
just to point out it happened on the 03/07/16 and today is the 14/07/16. OP stated he had surgery on the 13/07/16 that is yesterday. it takes times to investigate crime.
Only the investigating member will have the details.
He appears to be able to slag off our gardai calling them useless.
I don't think what you are saying is true as I am not trying to slag off any one. But when no action has been taken over the past 11 days despite the fact we tried so many times calling the gardai in charge then I feel there is something wrong0 -
Join Date:Posts: 17433
I don't think what you are saying is true as I am not trying to slag off any one. But when no action has been taken over the past 11 days despite the fact we tried so many times calling the gardai in charge then I feel there is something wrong
Yes there is something wrong, there is only so many guards on duty at any given time, we are in the summer months now so more guards will be on leave with their families etc so those that are working are further stretched.
TBH if I was you I would attend the station and ask for the Super/Sergeant in charge and report it to them.0 -
jonnycivic wrote: »Yes there is something wrong, there is only so many guards on duty at any given time, we are in the summer months now so more guards will be on leave with their families etc so those that are working are further stretched.
TBH if I was you I would attend the station and ask for the Super/Sergeant in charge and report it to them.
I am doing that today but not to do anything against the one in charge but to take this case moving0 -
In my experience OP you're wasting your time.
Better off just walking away and accepting that nothing will be done.
Alternative is to drive yourself slowly insane chasing some from of response.just to point out it happened on the 03/07/16 and today is the 14/07/16. OP stated he had surgery on the 13/07/16 that is yesterday. it takes times to investigate crime.
Only the investigating member will have the details.
He appears to be able to slag off our gardai calling them useless.
Even if what you're saying is correct, (10 days is far too long for an assault victim to wait), the lack of response and follow up is inexcusable.
A simple call to say it's being investigated would go along way to pout his mind at ease.
But zero response appears to be the norm unfortunately.0 -
A Superintendant might not be available to see the OP even if they do call to the Garda station directly. They might be informed to write a letter to request a meeting by which time the investigating Guard might have already responded.jonnycivic wrote: »TBH if I was you I would attend the station and ask for the Super/Sergeant in charge and report it to them.
OP, I feel you should pursue the matter as your experience does not sound pleasant even if we don't know all the details. Hope you recover from your injuries.0 -
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I was assulted on the 3rd of July by 3 guys in a bright daylight and got a broken nose. One of them was carrying a metal bar and luckily jost got beaten in my body not my head with the bar. My partner took a picture of the car's reg number. She contacted the gards straight away and drove me to the hospital. 2 gards showed up in the hospital taking statement and reg number and all that. I was told I would be contacted within 2-3 days. But the only thing was a letter from them saying it was reported and the name of the gard in charge. A week passed by no calles. I tried calling and talking to her but she was never in. Eventually my partner got to talk into her 10 days later when I was in the hospital having surgery on my nose for that assult. She said she would call the following day to come and get a statement. Statement??? Yes she said they had to get another statement, a formal one and <script id="gpt-impl-0.00386094261776021" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_91.js"></script>they could not do any thing with only the reg number.
We were waiting for her call yesterday nothing (eventhought she said she would be in all day) called the station many time to talk to her but nowhere to be found.
Are the gards always useless????
I haven't read any of the thread but I can tell you the two times I have had to call guards on traffic issues I have found them to be totally disinterested.
The first was about 10 years ago when a car rear ended me near Christchurch in Dublin doing damage to my boot and then driving off at speed. I got the REG and saw the white of the guys eyes in my rear view mirror. It took many calls to Gardaí station with excuses that the guy who took the details wasn't on. Eventually I managed to get a hold of him and all he said was the car was registered to a Romanian gypsy woman and that the guy who was probably driving it was banned from driving. hey knew him but he was denying it. I said I saw his face in my rear view mirror (big moustache like Mario) but he said if they were to do a line up he would have to gather up willing Romanians for the line up and that wasn't practical. I then traded my car in so didn't need to get it fixed.
About 4 years ago I am pushing a buggy with my two small kids in a respectable area in Dublin when a lunatic mounts fully the wide footpath and cyclelane driving right at us and another guy. He pulled out off the footpath at the last minute smirking away and shot off. The guy who was on the footpath was shaking like a leaf (he may have been the target) but I was royally pissed off as you'd imagine. I got REG, car, description and still remember the smirking young driver's face today. Again rang guards. They said they would send someone out (never arrived). So another 3 weeks of calling into Gardaí station and phone calls eventually yielded a grumpy guard when came out on the offensive. He said he checked REG, registered to a woman (sound familiar). He asked if anyone is injured. He said I could go to court but the guy would know who I was and may find out where I live. So he wouldn't advise it.
So the question is are they useless or just realistic about conviction?0 -
This does seem like a long time to me for someone to call and take a statement, any interaction I had with the gardai over the years I found that they took statements usually within the first 24 hours.
I would definitely say the gardai are not useless they do a superb job in general despite a range of factors that make their job extremely difficult.
I would call to the station OP, I would imagine there are some extenuating circumstances in play that have prevented this progressing0 -
I haven't read any of the thread but I can tell you the two times I have had to call guards on traffic issues I have found them to be totally disinterested.
The first was about 10 years ago when a car rear ended me near Christchurch in Dublin doing damage to my boot and then driving off at speed. I got the REG and saw the white of the guys eyes in my rear view mirror. It took many calls to Gardaí station with excuses that the guy who took the details wasn't on. Eventually I managed to get a hold of him and all he said was the car was registered to a Romanian gypsy woman and that the guy who was probably driving it was banned from driving. hey knew him but he was denying it. I said I saw his face in my rear view mirror (big moustache like Mario) but he said if they were to do a line up he would have to gather up willing Romanians for the line up and that wasn't practical. I then traded my car in so didn't need to get it fixed.
About 4 years ago I am pushing a buggy with my two small kids in a respectable area in Dublin when a lunatic mounts fully the wide footpath and cyclelane driving right at us and another guy. He pulled out off the footpath at the last minute smirking away and shot off. The guy who was on the footpath was shaking like a leaf (he may have been the target) but I was royally pissed off as you'd imagine. I got REG, car, description and still remember the smirking young driver's face today. Again rang guards. They said they would send someone out (never arrived). So another 3 weeks of calling into Gardaí station and phone calls eventually yielded a grumpy guard when came out on the offensive. He said he checked REG, registered to a woman (sound familiar). He asked if anyone is injured. He said I could go to court but the guy would know who I was and may find out where I live. So he wouldn't advise it.
So the question is are they useless or just realistic about conviction?
Thanks for sharing your experience. The people that assulted me have the same nationality as the ones you mentioned. Nothing against them but the point is that they should not be allowed to do as they want without any consequence just because they are violent and the guards can not control them. That is just unfair0 -
This does seem like a long time to me for someone to call and take a statement, any interaction I had with the gardai over the years I found that they took statements usually within the first 24 hours.
I would definitely say the gardai are not useless they do a superb job in general despite a range of factors that make their job extremely difficult.
I would call to the station OP, I would imagine there are some extenuating circumstances in play that have prevented this progressing
I really don't get that either as they got a statement shortly after the incident. But now they want to get an "officail statement". Don't really understand what that statement was.0 -
Bandana boy wrote: »10 days for a serious assault is way too long
If her workload is more important than this case then your case needs to be moved to a new officer.
As regards OP no not all Garda are useless but unfortunately with no real performance management , those that are can coast through their 35 years service with very little implications
None of this post is factually accurate.0 -
I really don't get that either as they got a statement shortly after the incident. But now they want to get an "officail statement". Don't really understand what that statement was.
They didn't get a statement OP, they just took a report from you.
For a criminal investigation you must give a state, in writing, to the gardai, it will be signed by you and used as evidence.
It's basically the evidence you yourself will give in court, should the case get that far.0 -
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Usually 3 months would be the target for a section 3 assault. You need to wait for the victim to get their injuries sorted so you know the full extent of assault brfore making an arrest. You need to get cctv and witness statements too. You then need to get a full medical report before you submit a file for direction. These things take time. 10 days is not a lot of time in the case of an assault investigation.0
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I haven't read any of the thread but I can tell you the two times I have had to call guards on traffic issues I have found them to be totally disinterested.
The first was about 10 years ago when a car rear ended me near Christchurch in Dublin doing damage to my boot and then driving off at speed. I got the REG and saw the white of the guys eyes in my rear view mirror. It took many calls to Gardaí station with excuses that the guy who took the details wasn't on. Eventually I managed to get a hold of him and all he said was the car was registered to a Romanian gypsy woman and that the guy who was probably driving it was banned from driving. hey knew him but he was denying it. I said I saw his face in my rear view mirror (big moustache like Mario) but he said if they were to do a line up he would have to gather up willing Romanians for the line up and that wasn't practical. I then traded my car in so didn't need to get it fixed.
About 4 years ago I am pushing a buggy with my two small kids in a respectable area in Dublin when a lunatic mounts fully the wide footpath and cyclelane driving right at us and another guy. He pulled out off the footpath at the last minute smirking away and shot off. The guy who was on the footpath was shaking like a leaf (he may have been the target) but I was royally pissed off as you'd imagine. I got REG, car, description and still remember the smirking young driver's face today. Again rang guards. They said they would send someone out (never arrived). So another 3 weeks of calling into Gardaí station and phone calls eventually yielded a grumpy guard when came out on the offensive. He said he checked REG, registered to a woman (sound familiar). He asked if anyone is injured. He said I could go to court but the guy would know who I was and may find out where I live. So he wouldn't advise it.
So the question is are they useless or just realistic about conviction?
Well firstly, neither of these incidents require gardai to call to you, there are higher priority calls which will be attended to before you, and yes depending on where you are, they may never call to you.
The gardai are highly under resourced , and that is the result.
Secondly, when you called to the station to make a complaint, you should have insisted that you were happy to go to court, if that's what you wanted.0 -
Well firstly, neither of these incidents require gardai to call to you, there are higher priority calls which will be attended to before you, and yes depending on where you are, they may never call to you.
The gardai are highly under resourced , and that is the result.
Secondly, when you called to the station to make a complaint, you should have insisted that you were happy to go to court, if that's what you wanted.
Fair enough, but to clarify, the guards were on the scene for the first incident and they may not have been required to call out to the second but they said they would and didn't show up.
I just think its easier for them to try and put you off going to court and thats how it felt to me. I shouldn't have to insist in my opinion. Its just another obstacle for someone reporting a crime to get over.0 -
I've had a 15 month period elapse between an assault and me giving a statement. I went from having massive respect and admiration for the guards to having little of either anymore...
I got the same 'we'll call you over the next two days' treatment and heard nothing. After 3 weeks I started phoning the station on a regular basis (and called a few times to put my name in the book for him) to try get the guard to contact me. I wrote to him. I wrote to the sergeant of his unit, my employer wrote to the sergeant of his unit. I wrote to the superintendent as did my employer. Finally I got someone who actually knew the super to hand him a letter with a timeline of all my correspondence and had a statement taken within a week. Haven't heard anything since though...
I've bee told GSOC are a waste of time too so I'm kinda at a loss as to what to do. I'm bitterly dissapointed
I remember reading this article and thinking 'I'm one of these'
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/10000-crimes-a-year-not-investigated-as-gardai-worktorule-31267042.html
Sorry for the thread hijack OP + good luck with your recovery but it seems this does happen.0 -
Little CuChulainn wrote: »Usually 3 months would be the target for a section 3 assault. You need to wait for the victim to get their injuries sorted so you know the full extent of assault brfore making an arrest. You need to get cctv and witness statements too. You then need to get a full medical report before you submit a file for direction. These things take time. 10 days is not a lot of time in the case of an assault investigation.
This thread really confirms a lot for me about the guards. The defensiveness and lame excuses being given here are a joke..
This guy was assaulted. He reported it to the guards. 10 days have passed and he's heard nothing despite multiple attempts to make contact. Now 10 days may not seem like much to a public sector employee given the pace they tend to work at but to anyone else, 10 days with no communication is unacceptable. For an assault victim who's already in an emotional state, 10 days would be an eternity. That a number of posters on here see no issue with that delay explains why the OP is getting no where.
A call. 1 call. That's all it would take. That and actually doing some work to investigate. But in my experience, the op has heard nothing because there's nothing to hear. Nothing has happened and if the op wants to pursue this he's going to have to do all the cajoling and pushing or the case will just sit there going nowhere.
This level of service would be unacceptable in any private sector customer facing role. But with the Gardai not only is it considered acceptable but it's the norm.
Maybe if gardai spent more time actually working and a bit less time making up excuses for not working, the op would have got more joy.
But this thread kind of sums up pretty much every interaction I've had with the guards and it leaves people with zero faith or trust in the force.
Op - Honestly, if you want to pursue this you are going to have to put mountains of time and effort into it. You'll have to chase this guard every step of the way. I guarantee you it won't be worth it0 -
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In all fairness given the op's description of events in this case the Guards come across as useless.
Other people's dealings that I have heard of also makes them come across as useless.
So in summary(thankfully I haven't needed much assistance from them over the years) it's fine to conclude that they are in fact useless.I don't think I have ever heard of one sorry that makes them seem like a force that can implement law and order.
They will come down like a ton of bricks on a lad that's car tax is two months or of date but it seems you can beat the **** out of a fellow citizen and get off Scot free.0 -
Have absolutely no faith in the Irish police. They only seem to be there to collect motor tax fines.
They would sooner throw the book at somebody scratching the side of their head while driving because from a distance it looked like they were on the phone.0 -
Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »In all fairness given the op's description of events in this case the Guards come across as useless.
Other people's dealings that I have heard of also makes them come across as useless.
So in summary(thankfully I haven't needed much assistance from them over the years) it's fine to conclude that they are in fact useless.I don't think I have ever heard of one sorry that makes them seem like a force that can implement law and order.
They will come down like a ton of bricks on a lad that's car tax is two months or of date but it seems you can beat the **** out of a fellow citizen and get off Scot free.
I'd thank that twice if I could. And no, I've never been fined for no tax on my car!!!0 -
This thread really confirms a lot for me about the guards. The defensiveness and lame excuses being given here are a joke..
This guy was assaulted. He reported it to the guards. 10 days have passed and he's heard nothing despite multiple attempts to make contact. Now 10 days may not seem like much to a public sector employee given the pace they tend to work at but to anyone else, 10 days with no communication is unacceptable. For an assault victim who's already in an emotional state, 10 days would be an eternity. That a number of posters on here see no issue with that delay explains why the OP is getting no where.
A call. 1 call. That's all it would take. That and actually doing some work to investigate. But in my experience, the op has heard nothing because there's nothing to hear. Nothing has happened and if the op wants to pursue this he's going to have to do all the cajoling and pushing or the case will just sit there going nowhere.
This level of service would be unacceptable in any private sector customer facing role. But with the Gardai not only is it considered acceptable but it's the norm.
Maybe if gardai spent more time actually working and a bit less time making up excuses for not working, the op would have got more joy.
But this thread kind of sums up pretty much every interaction I've had with the guards and it leaves people with zero faith or trust in the force.
Op - Honestly, if you want to pursue this you are going to have to put mountains of time and effort into it. You'll have to chase this guard every step of the way. I guarantee you it won't be worth it
The problem is that the Gardaí spend all their time working. You say a simple phone call but when do you make it? Obviously your night shift is not the time to be calling people unless you can get it done in the first hour or two. There is no time during the day unless you are specifically given time to do your investigation, which just doesn't happen. You come into work and either get assigned to a patrol or to station duties. Maybe you get a chance to run through your list of investigations between all the passports and calls to the station but it's unlikely. With luck you get to call into a shop and ask for cctv or pick it up but you still need time to view it.
You call it excuses but this is the reality of what investigating members have to work with. You get sent from call to call and are given little to no time for any kind of investigation unless it is extremely time sensitive. And an assault simply isn't. It might sound callous but it's a simple matter of prioritising your workload in order that things don't get statute barred before you can finish with them.
Someone threw out the old "They have time for car tax fines" line. It's nonsense but it provides a simple example. You catch a person for no tax by being on patrol or doing a checkpoint. These are both things you are assigned to do. You can't do your investigation instead of them because then who will be patrolling the area? You stop a car for no tax. The vast majority of people are let off unless they are way out of date or they are a scumbag. Very few Gardaí want to bring a decent person who is struggling a little before a judge. To prosecute a person for tax you simply fill in a form and send it off. That's it. Takes 2 minutes. It has to be done within 3 months of the stop. Doesn't require statements, medical reports or cctv or anything of the sort. So to compare a prosecution for tax with a prosecution for a section 3 assault is ill-informed at best. They share no similarities.
It'd be great if a Garda could go to a call and take a report and stick with the investigation for the day but it's not possible. Places like Tallaght, Blanchardstown and Finglas are lucky if they have enough people working to crew a single patrol car, They are unlikely to even get to every call during the day, let alone investigate one of them. Managements solution to this problem was to bring in a monitoring system so they can monitor the progress of investigations and discipline Gardaí who fall behind. They didn't actually do anything to fix the problem though, just found a way to blame it on the Garda.
This is the reality of the conditions regular Gardaí have to investigate crime under. It's not excuses, it's facts. If you think you could do better under those circumstances then please enlighten me. I'd love to learn how. If you think You could manage things better then I'd say, no **** sherlock. We all could. But don't come in here calling Gardaí lazy and disinterested. I'm lucky if I can take a break during my ten hour shift. I've spent 9 years prosecuting people and seeing them get let off. I've been injured a number of times for my troubles and had my pay cut more than once. So you'll forgive me if your assessment of my work and that of my colleagues based on anecdotal evidence is given as much credence as a Waterford Whispers article or if your idea of what I should do is filed under the category of mission impossible.
We work with what we have. If you want more then give us more to work with. Operational uniforms, more recruits, work suitable cars, legislative changes, purpose built stations, court reforms, bail reforms. I'll take any one of the above and give you an improved performance.0 -
Little CuChulainn wrote: »None of this post is factually accurate.
The fact you think waiting 10 days is not too long to take a statement on a serious assault shows how out of touch you and your colleagues are with reality and public opinion.
Obviously to charge will take longer nobody is disputing that.
Also the constant claims of under resourced from your brethren for these reasons does not ring true when comparing the cost we pay for our Garda with similar countries to us.
Either there is too many Garda , we are paying to much or in my opinion the most likely the productivity from the Garda is way below international standards.
It is my opinion (and it is my opinion)that this productivity challenge is driven by our lack of a performance management system . The many many not fit for the job Garda are dragging the rest down.
The amount of Garda who have lost there job over the years points to a lack of review.
The amount of very serious incidents with Garda behaviour reported recently shows a serious lack of controls.
You may argue it is only a few bad apples , but when you leave them in the barrel for years and years they turn the good apples too.
Also as an aside , explaining a delay does not excuse it , You seem to think being able to explain it means its ok , It is not and that is why so many people are rallying against what I am sure you think are well reasoned defensive statements.0 -
Bandana boy wrote: »The fact you think waiting 10 days is not too long to take a statement on a serious assault shows how out of touch you and your colleagues are with reality and public opinion.
Where did I say that exactly? What I said is you need to wait until the full extent of the injuries are known. This is so you can include them in the statement and you know what level of assault you are dealing with. But since you brought it up, ten days is not a long time to wait. A statement for this kind of incident can take a few hours to get through so you have to be able to put that time aside and as I've already said, that time is just not available.Bandana boy wrote: »Obviously to charge will take longer nobody is disputing that.
Also the constant claims of under resourced from your brethren for these reasons does not ring true when comparing the cost we pay for our Garda with similar countries to us.
Either there is too many Garda , we are paying to much or in my opinion the most likely the productivity from the Garda is way below international standards.
Feel free to cite your sources for this claimBandana boy wrote: »It is my opinion (and it is my opinion)that this productivity challenge is driven by our lack of a performance management system . The many many not fit for the job Garda are dragging the rest down.
in actual fact there is a very robust performance management system. It was introduced about nine months ago. It can't change the fact that there isn't enough time or resources to change anything.Bandana boy wrote: »The amount of Garda who have lost there job over the years points to a lack of review.
And how many Gardaí is that?Bandana boy wrote: »The amount of very serious incidents with Garda behaviour reported recently shows a serious lack of controls.
Can you provide any kind of example?Bandana boy wrote: »You may argue it is only a few bad apples , but when you leave them in the barrel for years and years they turn the good apples too.
I didn't argue it's only a few bad apples. I said it is due to a lack of manpower and resources. I was pretty clear.Bandana boy wrote: »Also as an aside , explaining a delay does not excuse it , You seem to think being able to explain it means its ok , It is not and that is why so many people are rallying against what I am sure you think are well reasoned defensive statements.
I'm not making excuses. I'm telling you the reality of the situation. I don't really care if you or the general public think it's outrageous, that won't change reality. You've sat by as the media and politicians used the organisation as a whipping boy for the last few years and now you are seeing the result of that. An under-resourced, under motivated force that is unable to provide the service required within the limited time and resources available and unwilling to go beyond what is required of them as they once did.
If you really want to see how much the Gardaí do in a single shift, a general strike looks very much on the cards for the near future so you'll get a very good idea then.0 -
In my opinion it's the system that's completely broken.
The approach to crime investigation by AGS appears to have been abandoned by other services since the 60s. You look at the UK where proportionately there are far more officers doing far more specific tasks - detective teams investigate crime that require time whereas uniform officers act as first responders to emergencies and handle summary matters. Here a uniform guard is a jack of all trades, particularly outside of Dublin where there are so few to handle such cumbersome workloads.
People seem to think gardaí don't care. They do, it's just that the call a person makes is based on a list of priorities. Priorities that are tasked to them by their supervisor and it's rare when a member starts work to be told to get the job done - more often than not it's 'I need this file or report in front of me by tonight/tomorrow' and it's all hands on deck. If there's an emergency they'll go out but if not they're normally grounded trying to get on top of bureaucracy that has almost tripled in the last ten years.
When it comes to victims of crime - I agree the victims are let down terribly. In a world of such accountability a guard can be reluctant to even approach a suspect without a written complaint from the victim. And that has to be a victim who is willing to take the matter to court. The days of a guard being able to sort things out without taking it to court are long gone. Even with that complaint and a full file sent in record time it will still take at least five months from the date of submission to get the suspect into the body of a court. Add to that the ridiculous amount of adjournments for the most minor of matters and a system whereby the defendant can think about whether he'll plead guilty or not based on what evidence is against him and whether he feels he has a shot of fighting regardless of whether he truly did it - and a person can wait up to a year for even a menial thing to be resolved.
A menial thing that usually has a poor outcome for the victim and a slap on the wrist for the defendant.
People give out about the US justice system and the fact that it has the highest percentage of inmates in the developed world. It's far from perfect and has dozens if not hundreds of flaws. One particular reason for the high numbers however is due to the punishments being far more severe than here. If we were to genuinely incarcerate people instead of the revolving door system here and in many other European countries I can guarantee we wouldn't be much different.
I believe in reform - but only for those criminals who are willing to engage in it. Many are not. Prison is meant to be a punishment by depriving a person of their liberty - but it should also be seen as a way to keep the good community at large safe for as long as is practicable until that person does show genuine willingness to engage with services and education.
We need to streamline the courts system and bring it into the 21st century. We need to expedite the implementation of policies that fast track matters to the courts and have minor matters dealt with without such ridiculous delays. Investigative systems in AGS need to be improved and more structures and manpower put into place to implement them. The prison services need a massive boost and a couple of large new prisons built imo. Accountability is all well and good but more emphasis needs to be placed on the rights of the victim as opposed to the current mollycoddling of the offender.
One other thing - all of that will cost money. Is the tax payer willing to double their contribution to the Justice portfolio? I honestly don't think so.
To sum it up - are the guards useless? Yes; not because of the gardaí on the ground but because the state tied their hands and walked away.0
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