Starting off in the gym, what to do?

Lb7721

Hi guys, recently I've put on a lot of weight due to an injury. I come from an MMA background and used to weigh in and around 84kg.
At the moment I'm 100kg and 5'10, 20 years of age.
I got myself into a gym but to be honest I'm not sure what to be doing. I'm going 5-6 days a week, 30 mins cardio (15 min treadmill and 15min cross trainer or row machine) and then about 40 mins of weights.
Just wondering should I be doing more cardio and what supplements would you recommend me to take?
At the moment I'm taking no supplements at all not even whey protein.
I'm not looking to get back to my old weight necessarily although that would be great I just want to physically look in shape again.
Thanks in advance!

Zillah

Lb7721 wrote: »

Hi guys, recently I've put on a lot of weight due to an injury.

First thing to get into your head is that you put on a lot of weight due to eating more food than you should have. An injury can have an effect in that scenario in that you do less exercise so you need fewer calories, but its the diet that's making you fat and the diet that will make you lose weight.

Just wondering should I be doing more cardio

I would (and do) do cardio entirely separately from the gym. You can run anywhere. I keep gym time for weights only.

and what supplements would you recommend me to take?

Creatine is the only one really worth bothering with, even then it only makes a small difference.

At the moment I'm taking no supplements at all not even whey protein.

Whey is handy to make sure you get enough protein into your diet, that's it.

Mellor

It will be more determined by diet than the minutes of cardio vrs weights.
What's was the MMA background? Have you any plans to go back to that? Being injured won't cause weight gain, only overeating will cause weight gain. When you aren't training your food/energy needs are less.

arybvtcw0eolkf

How long were you training MMA to say you've a 'background in MMA'?.

With a solid background I'd be surprised at you not knowing the answers to your own questions.

That aside, have you considered going back to MMA training & set a goal of competing at your old weight again?.. Do that and your coach will pretty much guide you in the right direction.

Regards to your supplements question, why do you feel you need supplements?.

I'm of the school of thought that supplements are for supplementing a diet where you can't get proper food/nutrition intake ~ then supplement the shortfall with a supplement. Other than that the vast, vast majority of people are throwing good money away.

In the gym, do what you enjoy and you'll do more of it and for longer.

Get back into MMA training?.

Lb7721

Saul Jealous Skipper wrote: »

How long were you training MMA to say you've a 'background in MMA'?.

With a solid background I'd be surprised at you not knowing the answers to your own questions.

That aside, have you considered going back to MMA training & set a goal of competing at your old weight again?.. Do that and your coach will pretty much guide you in the right direction.

Regards to your supplements question, why do you feel you need supplements?.

I'm of the school of thought that supplements are for supplementing a diet where you can't get proper food/nutrition intake ~ then supplement the shortfall with a supplement. Other than that the vast, vast majority of people are throwing good money away.

In the gym, do what you enjoy and you'll do more of it and for longer.

Get back into MMA training?.

Well I've been training in BJJ / Muay Thai for 4 years now, it's all I've ever done so I've never set foot in an actual gym if you understand.
I tore ligaments in my left wrist so I'm not able to properly grapple in the gi when doing BJJ or throw punches without alot of pain.
My doctor told me to go to a gym and do some really light weight training etc on machines and use the cardio machines

When I was competing etc I wasn't taking any supplements, was just eating well but I just made an assumption that supplements are good for the gym, forgive my ignorance but I've never set foot in a proper gym it's all very new to me

bonyn

5 mins of cardio is fine for a warmup, then do weights..
if you're working out daily there's no need to do a mammoth session of weights. Just keep it short and focused with a set amount of rest time after each set, and then straight back into it. As weightloss is your goal it's a good idea to keep the heart rate up by skipping or using the exercise bike for a minute between exercises.

If you enjoy cardio, why not do a run later in the evening or on your rest days from weights? I find cycling (on the road, not in the gym) a great way to burn loads of calories without really noticing.

Diet's a big part too. Cut out processed foods at least, including white bread, pasta and noodles. Eat plenty of veg and protein with every meal. Snack on nuts, celery/carrot sticks with homous or nut butter. Avoid sugar and treats, particularly for the first month. Also be aware that fruit has a high sugar content. Fat is also very dense and gram for gram has twice the calories as carbs so take on fats, oils and dressings, and cheese.

Oh, and if you're really serious about weightloss, alcohol has to go. So many empty calories, not to mention the takeaways afterwards and that bloated feeling

I'm on a similar diet at the moment. Day 4. Awful cravings at times but hopefully it will be worth it

Alf Veedersane

Lb7721 wrote: »

Well I've been training in BJJ / Muay Thai for 4 years now, it's all I've ever done so I've never set foot in an actual gym if you understand.
I tore ligaments in my left wrist so I'm not able to properly grapple in the gi when doing BJJ or throw punches without alot of pain.
My doctor told me to go to a gym and do some really light weight training etc on machines and use the cardio machines

When I was competing etc I wasn't taking any supplements, was just eating well but I just made an assumption that supplements are good for the gym, forgive my ignorance but I've never set foot in a proper gym it's all very new to me

The wrist injury will dictate, to a degree, what you can and can't do.

It might be worth engaging a trainer who can help you personally and see the limitations of the injury and work around it until it's capable of doing more and work out a program of exercises that you can do to train in a balanced way.

ectoraige

Zillah wrote: »

First thing to get into your head is that you put on a lot of weight due to eating more food than you should have. An injury can have an effect in that scenario in that you do less exercise so you need fewer calories, but its the diet that's making you fat and the diet that will make you lose weight.

What's worse, when you are injured and stop training, your body can start to miss the endorphin release from exercise. One of the easiest ways to replace this with junk food. As a result, not only do you need fewer calories then normal, you can start to increase your intake. Injury is something you should really proactive about - really focus on nutrition, and find better ways too get that endorphin high - spicy food or good ol' sex spring to mind.

I would (and do) do cardio entirely separately from the gym. You can run anywhere. I keep gym time for weights only.

With the exception of rowing, unless you've a boat. The rower is a great option if you want to do cardio in the gym.

bonyn

Lb7721 wrote: »

My doctor told me to go to a gym and do some really light weight training etc on machines and use the cardio machines

I wouldnt really rush to do loads of cardio and light weights just because the doctor said so.
Sounds like a good time to focus on your legs .. squats with the proper rack, or leg presses with the machine. You'll just need some advice on how to use them. If you can afford it go to a personal trainer. I went to one (in Dundalk). He charges a good bit but does nutrition and exercise plans.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Ok the ligament injury changes things.. Don't bother with a doctor for joint injuries, go to a good chartered physiotherapist ~ if you're near Dunboyne I can recommend one who has kept me fighting fit and competing (I'm 50th so he's doing something right).

With a wrist injury like that you're probably pretty restricted in how you can train, and tbh if I was serious about rehabilitating that injury I wouldn't be seeking the advice of an internet forum, I'd be taking the professional medical route.

Mellor

When did you injury the wrist? What's the recover time look like. As if you can't grapple of punch it's unlike that you'll be able to grip a dumbell or barbell.

Have you considered continuing to grapple but only using your good hand?
Muay Thai is the art of 8 limbs. You only lost one of them.

Zillah

Mellor wrote: »

When did you injury the wrist? What's the recover time look like. As if you can't grapple of punch it's unlike that you'll be able to grip a dumbell or barbell.

There's a very big difference between gently grasping a dumbell in a controlled manner and trying to wrench a resisting opponent off their feet. The latter would be far more likely to cause injury.

ectoraige wrote: »

With the exception of rowing, unless you've a boat.

*adjusts monocle*

Lb7721

Mellor wrote: »

When did you injury the wrist? What's the recover time look like. As if you can't grapple of punch it's unlike that you'll be able to grip a dumbell or barbell.

Have you considered continuing to grapple but only using your good hand?
Muay Thai is the art of 8 limbs. You only lost one of them.

It's very hard to grapple with only one hand unfortunately :P

I understand there's a lot more in Muay Thai but it's my left hand, it's needed for jabs, hooks, clinch work etc

Hopefully I'll get the wrist better with physio but it'll take time

Mellor

Zillah wrote: »

There's a very big difference between gently grasping a dumbell in a controlled manner and trying to wrench a resisting opponent off their feet. The latter would be far more likely to cause injury.
*

For heavy presses you might not get away with a gently grasping though. Even if gripping is fine, push movements require the load to be supported by the wrist, there could be a loss of stability. A dumbell twisting in his hand could aggravate the injury further.

Not sure why he'd be trying to wrench an opponent off his feet. Not a good approach with an injury, if at all imo.

Mellor

Lb7721 wrote: »

It's very hard to grapple with only one hand unfortunately :P

It's really not tbh.

I understand there's a lot more in Muay Thai but it's my left hand, it's needed for jabs, hooks, clinch work etc

I understand that. And I'm not suggesting you jab will improve in the near future. But there's no reason you can work elbows, kicks, etc on the bag.
If your left is out of action for 6 months. Then use that time to improve your head movement, footwork.

There's lots you can do. All of it a better option than sitting around.

Zillah

Mellor wrote: »

For heavy presses you might not get away with a gently grasping though. Even if gripping is fine, push movements require the load to be supported by the wrist, there could be a loss of stability. A dumbell twisting in his hand could aggravate the injury further.

Not sure why he'd be trying to wrench an opponent off his feet. Not a good approach with an injury, if at all imo.

Why are you being so argumentative? You're more likely to aggravate a wrist injury when it is being tested against an unpredictable opponent versus weights in a gym where you can control the exact resistance and pace. If you're worried about a twisting dumbell injuring a wrist then you should be ten times more worried about a twisting opponent, given that dumbells don't have a mind of their own.

Lb7721

Mellor wrote: »

It's really not tbh.


I understand that. And I'm not suggesting you jab will improve in the near future. But there's no reason you can work elbows, kicks, etc on the bag.
If your left is out of action for 6 months. Then use that time to improve your head movement, footwork.

There's lots you can do. All of it a better option than sitting around.

I'm not trying to be rude here but have you ever grappled? You need your hands to frame off your partner etc and for grips on his lapel.

Yup ofcourse I could improve on kicks etc but I'm not paying for a membership in my old place just to use their bags and do bag work when I could be putting more productive time into the gym.

Thanks everyone for your advice I'm taking it all into account

arybvtcw0eolkf

Didn't you say you grapple in the Gi?.. With a significant wrist injury as yours appears to be I certainly wouldn't be grappling, esp not in the Gi (where grip strength, breaking grips etc is everything).

You're only a young lad, rehab the injury and get back into training properly ~ you've loads of time to play catch up.

In the meantime cardio and be mindful of your diet because the kg/Ibs can creep up on you (sounds like its well begun).

An example, in 2009 I fought at the Irish Open at 105kgs, shortly afterwards I fractured & dislocated my ankle in training which kept me out of training for over 12 months (on a crutch for over six months) ~ I switched off and ate & drank all around me.. My weight shot up to 130kg!!.

Best of luck with things, but really my advice as an old hand at this is rehab the injury first.

Lb7721

Saul Jealous Skipper wrote: »

Didn't you say you grapple in the Gi?.. With a significant wrist injury as yours appears to be I certainly wouldn't be grappling, esp not in the Gi.

You're only a young lad, rehab the injury and get back into training properly ~ you've loads of time to play catch up.

In the meantime cardio and be mindful of your diet because the kg/Ibs can creep up on you (sounds like its well begun).

An example, in 2009 I fought at the Irish Open at 105kgs, shortly afterwards I fractured & dislocated my ankle in training which kept me out of training for over 12 months (on a crutch for over six months) ~ I switched off and ate & drank all around me.. My weight shot up to 130kg!!.

Best of luck with things, but really mjy advice as an old hand at this is rehab the injury first.

Yeah predominately in the gi, but I'd say nogi would be even more dangerous in my opinion anyways, I find in the Gi everything is more controlled, nogi is just that bit more frantic and wild when looking for takedowns and smash passing etc.

Being honest after the injury I got down in myself and just ate but I've copped on now and hoping to get back competing soon, just want to get a good level of fitness back and lose that weight I slapped on

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lb7721 wrote: »

Yeah predominately in the gi, but I'd say nogi would be even more dangerous in my opinion anyways, I find in the Gi everything is more controlled, nogi is just that bit more frantic and wild when looking for takedowns and smash passing etc.

Being honest after the injury I got down in myself and just ate but I've copped on now and hoping to get back competing soon, just want to get a good level of fitness back and lose that weight I slapped on

Gi/NoGi ~ I train in both, I wouldn't be risking further injury.

I get that you're feeling down, I'm rehab'ing a grade III (complete tear) of my left pec which has me out of Martial Arts training since Feb but I've faith in my physio and he promises to have me back fighting in Oct/Nov (I won gold at the national masters +100kgs last year and want to hold it ~ motivation).

So set a realistic goal, and I hope you don't think I was talking down to you about being a young lad ~ but I've been around awhile and I know how impatient I was back then.. Time does heal, and it flies it when you've set yourself a goal.

On the feeling down part, and motivating I'll suggest something ~ keep going to your club practice and watch from the sides. Stay in touch with the lads, offer advice where you think you can ~ this is all good for your head, but most important is this, once you lose time to something it can be very difficult to get back to your old ways, be selfish with your time and if you trained (for example) x3 times per week, keep even one of those nights to attend the club and don't lose that time to something else.

Another thing I do when I'm away from Martial Arts training, I do most of my cardio and some of my weights with a heart rate monitor ~ guess what I do?, a Judo fight is five minutes so I'll max out of the HRM for 5-7 minutes and play out a fight in my mind.. When I return to the mats that time gives me the confidence that I can train/spar/compete at my max HR for 5-7 minutes ~ it motivates me.

If I take my eye off things I get very down, depressed and unmotivated too. Its fecking horrible, I dread it. Its the worse feeling.

Btw, Mellor is a serious grappler ~ his word is good too.

hannible the cannible

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I think my question is quite similar ,

Is it possible to lose weight by eating right and doing minimum cardio , but really getting stuck into the weights , I dislike cardio but have taken to the weights really well , I'm wondering if I can progress by just doing weights and eating right or should I really get it into the head to be doing 30 min of running etc a day as recommended , many thanks

Mellor

Zillah wrote: »

Why are you being so argumentative? You're more likely to aggravate a wrist injury when it is being tested against an unpredictable opponent versus weights in a gym where you can control the exact resistance and pace. If you're worried about a twisting dumbell injuring a wrist then you should be ten times more worried about a twisting opponent, given that dumbells don't have a mind of their own.

I'm not being argumentative, I'm giving him advice/suggestions on how he can continue to train in his chosen sport. And given that we don't know the extent of details of his injury, I don't think anyone should be advising him to do weights with it. Leave that to the physio.

He wouldn't be in a situation with an unpredictable resisting opponent though. He is training, not competing. Very easy to adjust the training to be suitable, let partner know etc. Obvious if their are practising wrist locks, he should skip.
When it comes to sparring it's easy avoid using that grip, or sit out.

Alf Veedersane

hannible the cannible wrote: »

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I think my question is quite similar ,

Is it possible to lose weight by eating right and doing minimum cardio , but really getting stuck into the weights , I dislike cardio but have taken to the weights really well , I'm wondering if I can progress by just doing weights and eating right or should I really get it into the head to be doing 30 min of running etc a day as recommended , many thanks

Yes.

Your body needs X calories a day to function and fuel what you do.

If you eat fewer calories than X, you are in a deficit and will lose weight.

The more cardio you do just means the that X may be higher than it will be if you do weights is but you don't need to do it to lose weight.

And weights will likely help you with body composition.

Zillah

hannible the cannible wrote: »

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I think my question is quite similar ,

Is it possible to lose weight by eating right and doing minimum cardio , but really getting stuck into the weights , I dislike cardio but have taken to the weights really well , I'm wondering if I can progress by just doing weights and eating right or should I really get it into the head to be doing 30 min of running etc a day as recommended , many thanks

You could sit in a chair 24hrs a day and lose weight as long as you ate fewer calories than you need. Doing weights is perfect because it will also help develop muscle.

Mellor

Lb7721 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be rude here but have you ever grappled? You need your hands to frame off your partner etc and for grips on his lapel.

Grappling is my main focus, gi and nogi. Although I do some MMA also.

I wasn't just wading in uninformed saying "just use one hand". I'm aware how framing and grips are used. But I'm completely serious when I say it's an option. There are BJJ black belts who only have one arm. How do you think they got there?
If I hurt my wrist, I wouldn't be sitting out long term.

Depending on how it hurts it could be done different ways. I've seen guys tuck it into thir belt like this. I've been lucky enough to avoid injury, but I have rolled with like that before for other reasons.

Your grips and lapel chokes aren't going to improve obviously. But I'd bet your guard, l recovery, would get much better.
Thus is probably relevant; http://www.grapplearts.com/how-to-train-bjj-even-with-an-injured-arm-drill/

Where were you training, rank are you. It's possible some of the more experience guys in the club have been through similar.