The FAI confirm they will be debt free by 2020

eagle eye

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Being in the centre doesn't mean its more accessible, Dublin has all the transport links

Are you kidding? The Limerick motorway breaks off the Dublin to Cork one and goes by Portlaoise. Galway to Kilbeggan and then a good road through Tullamore to Portlaoise. If you want to use a motorway from Waterford, Wexford, Kilkenny you can take it to Kildare and then on down to Portlaoise which is shorter than going to Dublin.

There is very little difference in the time from Donegal to Portlaoise or Dublin.

Mayo people can go through Athlone and take the same route as Galway people. There is also a new motorway being built which will make it much more accessible for people from Mayo and the northwest to get there.

It makes much more sense if there was going to be one facility to have it in Portlaoise.

Flint Fredstone

The National Aquatic Centre/Show Centre/Children's Hospital/Maternity Hospital/Museum of Ireland...

If something is preceded by the word national it more often than not goes in the capital. Then you have Croke Park, The Aviva, the biggest and busiest airport...

Dublin city and surrounding areas make up about 40% of the country's population. This is life, it's just how things go.

eagle eye

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The National Aquatic Centre/Show Centre/Children's Hospital/Maternity Hospital/Museum of Ireland...

If something is preceded by the word national it more often than not goes in the capital. Then you have Croke Park, The Aviva, the biggest and busiest airport...

Dublin city and surrounding areas make up about 40% of the country's population. This is life, it's just how things go.

Some of those surrounding areas you include are closer to Portlaoise. Nobody from those areas will have an extremely long journey if they were travelling to Portlaoise.

A lot of children would have a very long journey if it were put in Dublin.

What's happened in the past should be learned from, we don't need to keep making the same mistakes.

...Awaits another childish picture response.

Lovely Bloke

It won't be in Portlaoise.

Jesus christ.

eagle eye

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It won't be in Portlaoise.

Jesus christ.

What has Jesus Christ got to do with it?

Why not Portlaoise? It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Dublin for the benefit of all kids.

howiya

The National Sports Campus is in Dublin. If they only build one academy it will be there. If they build more than one then Portlaoise and other places can have them too

Flint Fredstone

eagle eye wrote: »

Some of those surrounding areas you include are closer to Portlaoise. Nobody from those areas will have an extremely long journey if they were travelling to Portlaoise.

A lot of children would have a very long journey if it were put in Dublin.

What's happened in the past should be learned from, we don't need to keep making the same mistakes.

...Awaits another childish picture response.

The end of your post was crying out for that pic.

A lot of children would have a very long journey no matter where you put it. Is it not sensible to put it where the majority of children already are?

Pro. F

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You are right. It makes no sense for children to travel. That is why I would suggest the Barcelona model at La Masia. Keep the academy close to Dublin to get the greatest catchment of players. Players could live at home if it's convenient. If not convenient, then they could board.

The thing is, Barca are able to draw on a ridiculous pool of youth talent from Catalonia and from further afield. They aren't bringing in all the future pros they come in contact with. They are ignoring or missing the vast majority of those future pros. The kids going to La Masia are the absolute standouts both from all over the world and from one of the best youth development regions in the world (Spain/Catalonia).

La Mesia wouldn't work without all of the fantastic local level youth development that goes on in the wider area.

/That is all just further argument against the idea of a national academy in the first place. For those who think a national academy is a good idea, then your suggestion of a boarding set-up does seem to make sense.

farna_boy

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

If the LOI was better quality maybe more Dublin players would've stayed instead of going to the UK?

You realise the same argument could be made for the rest of the country?

In fact, kids in Dublin probably have a significant advantage over kids from the rest of the country with 6 teams based in Dublin, whereas kids in most counties are probably at least an hours drive from their local team.

Jimmy Iovine

National academy in Dublin with three-four regional academies around the country. Makes so much sense. That's why the FAI won't do it.

Another thing they won't do? Subsidise the coaching qualifications so more people can access them financially.

Pay John Delaney to quit his job. Pay him 50,000 a year for the rest of his life and get a qualified and ambitious person in.

eagle eye

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The end of your post was crying out for that pic.

A lot of children would have a very long journey no matter where you put it. Is it not sensible to put it where the majority of children already are?

No, it's more sensible to put it where it's accessible to the most people. It's not far from Dublin but it makes it a hell of a lot more worthwhile to kids from Cork and Limerick in particular.

ArmaniJeanss

eagle eye wrote: »

No, it's more sensible to put it where it's accessible to the most people. It's not far from Dublin but it makes it a hell of a lot more worthwhile to kids from Cork and Limerick in particular.

By that logic every solo building intended for national use should have been built in Portlaoise, basically from the parliament and government buildings downwards to all national sports stadia and specialist non-regional hospitals.

GavRedKing

St Georges park in England is nearly smack in the middle of the country. If it was put in and around the M25 corridor outside London, like Reading, it would serve about 20% of the population but that wasnt really fair.

I cant see the FAI building such a facility or build a purpose built national deveopment centre anytime soon but if it is done, it will be based in and around Dublin.

Frogdog

Getting back on topic, if the FAI were to have spare cash, I'd like to see a lot of the following happen:

1. Entice more clubs into the LOI, be it at Senior, U19s, U17 and/or the future U15 level. Start new clubs/teams in the lowest underage league, like Kerry and Cavan/Monaghan this season. Mayo, Tipperary, Meath, Clare, Roscommon/Leitrim, Laois/Offaly, Kilkenny (again)/Carlow, Kildare (again) - plenty of scope for teams from these areas. This starts off the process of having academies/centres of excellence, in areas which are close/local to players all over the country. It also gives people all over Ireland a local team to support.

2. New teams wishing to join the LOI should be given a stay from paying registration fees for the first few years – three years, five years, whatever. Give them a chance to get up and running. You don’t want teams dropping out of the league after entering a few years earlier – sets a bad example to teams thinking of joining in a few years. To encourage teams into the LOI you need as few barriers to entry as possible. Registration fees for Division 1 clubs should be lowered to offset the financial difficulties they face with less prize money on offer, less attendance/gate receipts, less sponsorship, etc.

3. Prize money for the LOI should be increased. In 2015, €241,500 was awarded overall, with €100,000 to the winners. The difference between prize money for finishing 4th and 12th was €9,500 – this isn’t right. Prize money for the Cups to be increased also, if possible.

4. Recruitment of more ex-internationals e.g. Damien Duff, Stephen McPhail, Colin Healy, Liam Miller, Keith Treacy, etc. Not just as players to raise the profile of the LOI, but also as coaches for the underage sides and senior teams of LOI sides, as club ambassadors, as league ambassadors, etc.

5. In Germany, the UEFA A licence costs €530, €1,200 in Spain and €2,350 in Ireland. The pro licence can cost €7,500 in Ireland. To improve the standard of coaching which will, in-turn, improve young players, improve the national team and Irish players going abroad, make qualifications more financially accessible.

6. Make the UEFA coaching licences free for LOI players. Who better to coach kids than players that play at a high level?! Ex-Premier League professionals aren’t of a sufficient number to come home, take up coaching badges and take up coaching in Ireland for relatively low pay. They’re more likely to stay in the UK, take up their coaching badges there and coach in a Premiership team with better pay.

7. Between 2005 and 2015, the FAI cut development & operating grants to grassroots affiliates by 50 per cent, from €2.2 to €1.1 million. Reverse this. More Regional Development Officers – one in each county, to focus on players from a young age with a view to getting them ready to enter the (future) U15, U17, U19 LOI team in their respective areas, in line with my first point above.

8. IRFU model – centralised contracts – Let's say the FAI agrees contracts with the top 10 (for example) LOI players. Centralised contracts were mentioned in the Genesis II Report as a huge plus for the IRFU. To be decided by the clubs/LOI/FAI who the 10 best players are - granted this is difficult as it's very subjective. Minimum 3 year contracts for these "elite" players. UK clubs who want to buy these players have to deal with the FAI/LOI and pay a fair amount/the going rate in transfer fees. The FAI would (should!) turn a profit on this, and pay a certain percentage or amount to the LOI clubs for these players. LOI players also benefit from having a steady income and security in employment. In time, the top 10 LOI players under centralised contracts could be increased to the top 15 or 20 players (once the FAI starts making a profit), so no longer will we see the likes of Richie Towell go to the UK for free, with no payment to Dundalk, the FAI or Irish soccer in general.

9. Create a position in the FAI where someone is tasked with maintaining a portfolio of every young Irish player playing in the UK/abroad, including those on trial/in academies/on short term contracts. This is easily done as the FAI has to sign off on every transfer abroad. At this point, the FAI should be acquiring contacts details from the players and their parents. Keep in touch with them and monitor their progress. If they don't make the grade, make sure they know they have options at home in the LOI, and alert LOI teams to their presence/availability. Too many players are being lost through the system when they come back unsuccessful from the UK. They seem to think that if they don't make it in England at their first attempt that they'll never make it anywhere.

10. Hire someone to identify Irish qualified players through the “Granny Rule” and help convince them to choose Ireland – similar to what Lee Carsley and Kevin Kilbane approached the FAI about recently, and are now working with the English FA. You can now see young Irish qualified players choosing England - Jack Grealish, Dan Crowley, James Maddison, etc. While nobody wants to see an Irish team made up of “England B / Northern Ireland / Scotland internationals”, at the same time this will allow us to at least increase our options of players to pick from who are playing professionally at a high level in the short to medium term.

CSF

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

By that logic every solo building intended for national use should have been built in Portlaoise, basically from the parliament and government buildings downwards to all national sports stadia and specialist non-regional hospitals.

It's a bizarre argument which is based on what's most fair to everyone, rather than what is most sensible. You've an area with towards 1.3 million populated in it, and another million within an hour of it. You're just nuts if you don't go with that location. Going with somewhere that is a couple of hours from everyone makes no sense if they want the thing to be a success.

eagle eye

CSF wrote: »

It's a bizarre argument which is based on what's most fair to everyone, rather than what is most sensible. You've an area with towards 1.3 million populated in it, and another million within an hour of it. You're just nuts if you don't go with that location. Going with somewhere that is a couple of hours from everyone makes no sense if they want the thing to be a success.

A big percentage of that 1 million within an hour of Dublin would be more suited by Portlaoise and you can add over another million who would be more suited by it too.

And again I remind you that it's only one hour from Dublin. It's like a regular journey in a big city, it's a motorway all the way for people coming from Dublin. It's not an inconvenience to them.

Also we are talking about kids here and it's not fair to have any of them traveling long journeys so it makes sense.

eagle eye

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

By that logic every solo building intended for national use should have been built in Portlaoise, basically from the parliament and government buildings downwards to all national sports stadia and specialist non-regional hospitals.

Well if you know anything about the history of this country it made perfect sense to have the most populated areas by the sea/ocean. It was very sensible to have the biggest population on the side closest to the United Kingdom.

Those days are long gone and you are right, things should have changed when ports became less important. Thing is we live in a world where the last people to move on are those at the top. Money talks too obviously but it would make a lot more sense to have everything more centralised in this day and age. The whole country would prosper from it.

Zaph

I'm surprised that nobody has spotted the obvious flaw in the thread title - The FAI confirm they will be debt free by 2020. Surely it should read "The FAI claim they will be debt free by 2020"? I wouldn't be going spending any of that illusory money on academies, national or otherwise, the LoI or anything else just yet. The FAI don't have the greatest record when it comes to managing their money well, so it wouldn't surprise me when 2020 rolls around that there'll be a new thread confirming that they'll be debt free by 2025.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

A big percentage of that 1 million within an hour of Dublin would be more suited by Portlaoise and you can add over another million who would be more suited by it too.

And again I remind you that it's only one hour from Dublin. It's like a regular journey in a big city, it's a motorway all the way for people coming from Dublin. It's not an inconvenience to them.

Also we are talking about kids here and it's not fair to have any of them traveling long journeys so it makes sense.

Fair doesn't come into this. Dublin to Portlaoise is absolutely an inconvenience. Less of an inconvenience than Cork to Dublin for sure, but as I said, fair does not come into this.

Frogdog

Zaph wrote: »

I'm surprised that nobody has spotted the obvious flaw in the thread title - The FAI confirm they will be debt free by 2020. Surely it should read "The FAI claim they will be debt free by 2020"? I wouldn't be going spending any of that illusory money on academies, national or otherwise, the LoI or anything else just yet. The FAI don't have the greatest record when it comes to managing their money well, so it wouldn't surprise me when 2020 rolls around that there'll be a new thread confirming that they'll be debt free by 2025.

While that is a massive flaw to be fair, at least their debt mountain is moving in the right direction. Personally, I think they're being a bit ambitious with the 2020 timeline. I think something like 2023 or 2024 might be a bit more realistic. Also, do they want to try and repay the debt quicker, at the expense of cutting expenditure in areas that need it (coaching, the League of Ireland, centres of excellence, etc.)? I'm not so sure that's a wise move, but I guess that would depend on the interest rate the debt is subject to.

pablomakaveli

Frogdog wrote: »

3. Prize money for the LOI should be increased. In 2015, €241,500 was awarded overall, with €100,000 to the winners. The difference between prize money for finishing 4th and 12th was €9,500 – this isn’t right. Prize money for the Cups to be increased also, if possible.


5. In Germany, the UEFA A licence costs €530, €1,200 in Spain and €2,350 in Ireland. The pro licence can cost €7,500 in Ireland. To improve the standard of coaching which will, in-turn, improve young players, improve the national team and Irish players going abroad, make qualifications more financially accessible.

These two points highlight the culture of absolute greed in Irish football. Iceland invested in getting lots of coaches qualified and they're currently reaping the rewards of that investment. In Ireland they're gouging prospective coaches for every penny they can.

The prize money is another example of this. A team gets twice the money for winning one round of the Europa League than they do for winning the league. Delaney earns 4 times the league winners prize a year.

The game in this country is rife with this type of greed from Delaney all the way down to the schoolboy clubs who farm their players out to England for as much money as they can get. This greed wont disappear if the FAI become debt free in 2020. I cant see them suddenly splashing the cash if that happens. This toxic aspect of Irish football needs to be removed before we can make any progress.

Jimmy Iovine

Frogdog wrote: »

Getting back on topic, if the FAI were to have spare cash, I'd like to see a lot of the following happen:

1. Entice more clubs into the LOI, be it at Senior, U19s, U17 and/or the future U15 level. Start new clubs/teams in the lowest underage league, like Kerry and Cavan/Monaghan this season. Mayo, Tipperary, Meath, Clare, Roscommon/Leitrim, Laois/Offaly, Kilkenny (again)/Carlow, Kildare (again) - plenty of scope for teams from these areas. This starts off the process of having academies/centres of excellence, in areas which are close/local to players all over the country. It also gives people all over Ireland a local team to support.

2. New teams wishing to join the LOI should be given a stay from paying registration fees for the first few years – three years, five years, whatever. Give them a chance to get up and running. You don’t want teams dropping out of the league after entering a few years earlier – sets a bad example to teams thinking of joining in a few years. To encourage teams into the LOI you need as few barriers to entry as possible. Registration fees for Division 1 clubs should be lowered to offset the financial difficulties they face with less prize money on offer, less attendance/gate receipts, less sponsorship, etc.

3. Prize money for the LOI should be increased. In 2015, €241,500 was awarded overall, with €100,000 to the winners. The difference between prize money for finishing 4th and 12th was €9,500 – this isn’t right. Prize money for the Cups to be increased also, if possible.

4. Recruitment of more ex-internationals e.g. Damien Duff, Stephen McPhail, Colin Healy, Liam Miller, Keith Treacy, etc. Not just as players to raise the profile of the LOI, but also as coaches for the underage sides and senior teams of LOI sides, as club ambassadors, as league ambassadors, etc.

5. In Germany, the UEFA A licence costs €530, €1,200 in Spain and €2,350 in Ireland. The pro licence can cost €7,500 in Ireland. To improve the standard of coaching which will, in-turn, improve young players, improve the national team and Irish players going abroad, make qualifications more financially accessible.

6. Make the UEFA coaching licences free for LOI players. Who better to coach kids than players that play at a high level?! Ex-Premier League professionals aren’t of a sufficient number to come home, take up coaching badges and take up coaching in Ireland for relatively low pay. They’re more likely to stay in the UK, take up their coaching badges there and coach in a Premiership team with better pay.

7. Between 2005 and 2015, the FAI cut development & operating grants to grassroots affiliates by 50 per cent, from €2.2 to €1.1 million. Reverse this. More Regional Development Officers – one in each county, to focus on players from a young age with a view to getting them ready to enter the (future) U15, U17, U19 LOI team in their respective areas, in line with my first point above.

8. IRFU model – centralised contracts – Let's say the FAI agrees contracts with the top 10 (for example) LOI players. Centralised contracts were mentioned in the Genesis II Report as a huge plus for the IRFU. To be decided by the clubs/LOI/FAI who the 10 best players are - granted this is difficult as it's very subjective. Minimum 3 year contracts for these "elite" players. UK clubs who want to buy these players have to deal with the FAI/LOI and pay a fair amount/the going rate in transfer fees. The FAI would (should!) turn a profit on this, and pay a certain percentage or amount to the LOI clubs for these players. LOI players also benefit from having a steady income and security in employment. In time, the top 10 LOI players under centralised contracts could be increased to the top 15 or 20 players (once the FAI starts making a profit), so no longer will we see the likes of Richie Towell go to the UK for free, with no payment to Dundalk, the FAI or Irish soccer in general.

9. Create a position in the FAI where someone is tasked with maintaining a portfolio of every young Irish player playing in the UK/abroad, including those on trial/in academies/on short term contracts. This is easily done as the FAI has to sign off on every transfer abroad. At this point, the FAI should be acquiring contacts details from the players and their parents. Keep in touch with them and monitor their progress. If they don't make the grade, make sure they know they have options at home in the LOI, and alert LOI teams to their presence/availability. Too many players are being lost through the system when they come back unsuccessful from the UK. They seem to think that if they don't make it in England at their first attempt that they'll never make it anywhere.

10. Hire someone to identify Irish qualified players through the “Granny Rule” and help convince them to choose Ireland – similar to what Lee Carsley and Kevin Kilbane approached the FAI about recently, and are now working with the English FA. You can now see young Irish qualified players choosing England - Jack Grealish, Dan Crowley, James Maddison, etc. While nobody wants to see an Irish team made up of “England B / Northern Ireland / Scotland internationals”, at the same time this will allow us to at least increase our options of players to pick from who are playing professionally at a high level in the short to medium term.

You can have John Delaney's job. We will win World Cup 2026. Ten year plan.

Frogdog

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

You can have John Delaney's job. We will win World Cup 2026. Ten year plan.

Thanks. I'd even take a substantial pay-cut!

overshoot

CSF wrote: »

Fair doesn't come into this. Dublin to Portlaoise is absolutely an inconvenience. Less of an inconvenience than Cork to Dublin for sure, but as I said, fair does not come into this.

Anywhere but dublin is a ridiculous argument and i say that as someone on the other side of the country. All decent roads lead to dublin so while the distance may be longer the journey time is shorter and more comfortable.

Either way one national centre is a token effort. If people have to travel more than an hour to their training centre so many will be lost through the cracks. Most LOI clubs at this stage have academys in place. Invest in them (clubs academy-I dont know about others but ours is a separate entity from the senior side, so no transfer of funds). Ensure good quality coaches, gear, access to facilities and coverage over the entire country. have the national academy in dublin for the top prospects / occasional visit by each club academy.

Invest a bit in the actual LOI facilities (again nothing to paying players), make it more attractive to younger players who may realise they dont need to go to England if they want to be a pro. Get some promotions officers into the league too. Be a decade to see the effect but cant see how it wouldnt improve things

Dempsey

Alot of coaches argue against academies saying that players get too comfortable.

Better funded coaching structures will do more than bricks and mortar

cournioni

Improve LOI clubs infrastructure, facilities for all of their teams and players. It works in other sports in this country so it would be a good start.

The clubs can then focus on the welfare of the players without the stress and distraction of having to invest in facilities.

marno21

There is good access to Portlaoise from Dublin, Cork and Limerick. If you're in Sligo and you're trying to get to Portlaoise it's a non runner.

By right there would be a central one located somewhere in Dublin with decent access and a few regional ones.