Solo (young Han Solo film) spoilers from post 1493

facehugger99 · 02-06-2018 12:51pm

I saw it in LV1 and it did seem a bit murky in places.

PhiloCypher · 02-06-2018 5:15pm

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

Even on die-hard star wars fansites the discussion is all centred on Disney injecting SJW politics into the universe and their hostility and indeed contempt for the older fans (ie the original fans)

One more misstep and the whole thing is going to blow up in Disneys face.

You lose the die hards and there will be such a ****storm that it will spill over to the general audience.

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree, i'm from the 77 era myself, its like the studio and the executives are trying to please everyone, and this is happening with a lot of films and tv series imo.

Its like everything is been crammed in to make it socially acceptable but like you said the hardcore fans will just have enough and switch off i guess.

I think thats why its lost on me, or maybe i'm just not with it.

I find the constant moaning about it infinitely more annoying then the incidences of it to be quite honest. Like Tony said if there is an agenda its about targeting demographics and making money. The sequel trilogy isn't crap because of diversity casting its crap because its badly written. If the internet echo chamber didn't exist to exacerbate peoples subconscious insecurities about diversity and female empowerment, they would be just that, Subconscious insecurities, instead of being the prism through which some judge every bit of media they digest and then get on their hobby-horse.

pixelburp wrote: »

Disagree, I think most if not all settings were horribly underlit. Corellia was as bad, and even in the opulent interiors of the mob boss's ship shots were super glooomy

A certain other Mob bosses Sail Barge was pretty gloomy too.

DrWu wrote: »

Saw it last night. It was good fun and it wasn't a BAD movie. I just fail to see what it adds to the SW universe. The Han/Chewie bromance didn't come across as well as it could have, the pacing was all over the place and the Kessel run was a damp squib. That said, when the characters were allowed to interact there were some good moments and Ehrenreich did a good job.

Overall I have no idea where the franchise is going and why we are being handed these random spin-off movies. Just wish they could have been more imaginative and started TFA with a better plan. Recycled characters, designs, plots etc. Whatever you say about TLJ at least Johnson tried to break out of what fans seem to be demanding - a James Bond-esque series of cloned movies and plots with mandatory space battles, lightsabre duels, chosen one storylines etc...

Surely that's all you can ask of any Star Wars movie. I think as adults some have lost sight of why they enjoyed the Star Wars movies in the first place. It wasn't for prestige tv levels of characterisation and dialogue, or Deakinseque cinematography that you've come to enjoy since, it was because they were fun adventure films. Yes the whole point of these Anthology films was to explore new territory(and I certainly hope they do get around to that) but it was also about getting away from the high stakes in the Saga films. People have complained that the stakes aren't high enough in Solo but we already had Rogue one for that. If they're not going vary things whats the point.

kerplun k · 02-06-2018 6:45pm

Watched it today. It was a hot mess, but an enjoyable hot mess. Because it’s Star Wars people will be overly critical and while some criticism is valid, I think it would be very unfair to say it wasn’t enjoyable.

Personally, my biggest gripe was that it never felt like a Han Solo film. The film does nothing to show us how the character in A New Hope came to be.

Other than that, I enjoyed it.

Vladimir Poontang · 02-06-2018 6:49pm

So we have had 4 Star Wars movies under Disney now and the record isn't good....

Last Jedi was appalling. Solo is average and has bombed. Force Awakens was good. Rogue One was saved by a Vader cameo.

Episode 9 will probably underdeliver too. Third film in a trilogy usually does least box office. No Ford, No Fisher and at best a Force Ghost Luke.

Rey, Kylo, Poe and Finn (Lol) have to carry this one.

Disney have made a balls of the franchise.

kerplun k · 02-06-2018 7:10pm

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

So we have had 4 Star Wars movies under Disney now and the record isn't good....

Last Jedi was appalling. Solo is average and has bombed. Force Awakens was good. Rogue One was saved by a Vader cameo.

Episode 9 will probably underdeliver too. Third film in a trilogy usually does least box office. No Ford, No Fisher and at best a Force Ghost Luke.

Rey, Kylo, Poe and Finn (Lol) have to carry this one.

Disney have made a balls of the franchise.

Yeah, 3/4 criticality acclaimed films, and 4.5 billion at the box office. Disney is really screwing this up.

Vladimir Poontang · 02-06-2018 7:36pm

kerplun k wrote: »

Yeah, 3/4 criticality acclaimed films, and 4.5 billion at the box office. Disney is really screwing this up.

I've never cared a damn for critics or box office figures.

Blade Runner was a box office bomb and torn apart by critics when it came out.

The prequels made a fortune too. So what? They are ****.

martingriff · 02-06-2018 7:40pm

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

I've never cared a damn for critics or box office figures.

Blade Runner was a box office bomb and torn apart by critics when it came out.

The prequels made a fortune too. So what? They are ****.

In your opinion maybe. I have not seen Solo but enjoyed the others

Vladimir Poontang · 02-06-2018 7:54pm

The funny thing when the prequels were released was that the fans at the time defended them to the bitter end, convinced themselves that they were great.

Now, years later, it is commonly accepted that they were garbage.

I see the same thing happening with these films from Disney. So many fans in denial.

kerplun k · 02-06-2018 7:59pm

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

I've never cared a damn for critics or box office figures.

Blade Runner was a box office bomb and torn apart by critics when it came out.

The prequels made a fortune too. So what? They are ****.

Yes, but my point is that 3/4 SW Disney films have been both financially and critically successfull.

Blade Runner was critically successfull but it performed poorly at the box office, and although the sw prequels were financially successful they were critically panned. 3/4 Disney films have done well both critically and financially and therefore a strong argument can be made that suggests that Disney aren’t doing a bad job.

Vladimir Poontang · 02-06-2018 8:03pm

kerplun k wrote: »

Yes, but my point is that 3/4 SW Disney films have been both financially and critically successfull.

Blade Runner was critically successfull but it performed poorly at the box office, and although the sw prequels were financially successful they were critically panned. 3/4 Disney films have done well both critically and financially and therefore a strong argument can be made that suggests that Disney aren’t doing a bad job.

The critics have fallen in line because of all the SJW nonsense stuffed into the movies. They wouldn't dare go against the narrative.

They are NOT well made movies. I'd love to see anyone try to argue that they are, just to read the nonsense they are spouting.

Riddle101 · 02-06-2018 8:06pm

I thought Solo was a decent movie but I don't know where i'd rank it. The cinematography was pretty good and gave us a different look at the Star Wars universe that we've never really seen. Kind've sad that we didn't get a Boba Fett appearance though. I thought he might show up in them middle.

Probably the most memorable scene for me was Darth Maul's appearance though. Is this setting up for a sequel or is it foreshadowing an Obi Wan Kenobi movie?

02-06-2018 8:18pm

I think it is the younger generation like my nephew who is 12 and loves these movies all of them that will carry them through to financial success.

He looks at me with bewilderment when i say to him i think there awful, he just can't understand why i don't like them, and i don't go into detail about them as i don't want to ruin it for him, if he like them thats fine by me.

Like i said before its me, im too critical of them because im looking at them through the eyes of an adult, i look at the script the actors the direction its going, my nephew sees lasers spaceships weird creatures and one liners.

02-06-2018 8:24pm

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

Rogue One was saved by a Vader cameo

As far as all Star Wars movies go, rogue one is one of the better ones, including the original 3

Also, the few seconds of screen time that Vader gets in rogue one, is possibly the greatest moment of Vader which has yet to be seen on film

Coming from a huge star wars fan

Andrew Beef · 02-06-2018 8:46pm

Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, and Force Awakens are excellent Star Wars movies in my view.

And I agree with Brother Andy; Rogue One’s scene in the corridor of the ship at the end might just be the greatest Vader scene of all.

touts · 02-06-2018 8:57pm

Saw it today. It's a great first episode of a new live action Star Wars spin off TV show.

Unfortunately it's not supposed to be the first episode of a new live action Star Wars spin off TV show. We have all these characters and story lines and gangs that we know very little about after the first episode and now we probably have to wait 3-4 years for episode 2. That's why I found it a generally unsatisfactory experience.

Tony EH · 02-06-2018 9:20pm

DrWu wrote: »

Whatever you say about TLJ at least Johnson tried to break out of what fans seem to be demanding - a James Bond-esque series of cloned movies and plots with mandatory space battles, lightsabre duels, chosen one storylines etc...

Um, I don't think fans want a "James Bond-esque series of cloned movies" at all. From what I've read, they want the Star Wars universe expanded. They want new stories and characters, but in the relatively familiar setting of Star Wars.

As far as 'The Last Jedi' and "breaking out" is concerned, though, Johnson's break out was akin to an escapee killing the guards, massacring the rest of the inmates, blowing up the prison and then walking to freedom covered in his own dirty protest shite, giving the finger to everyone on the way to town.

kerplun k · 02-06-2018 9:36pm

I was expecting to see a ton of posts from David. He’s normally all over the Star Wars threads. I’d like to know his thoughts on this one.

PhiloCypher · 02-06-2018 9:44pm

Saw it again there last night, an entertaining romp , competently told. Didn't diverge much from what we knew, but considering how badly people react when people take risks with 'their' star wars(Luke in TLJ) thats understandable. The performances of the main cast, Clarke aside, varied from good to great.

Han :Alden had a fairly thankless role stepping into Fords shoes, he doesn't sound like him and thankfully he doesn't even try, instead he tries to embody the swagger and the body language and when it works it really works, like when he pauses in the doorway and turns back to Qi Ra on Vos's ship definitely call back to similar scenes with Leia. I've seen people complain that he didn't have more of an arc, but had they futzed with his back story to give him bigger arc people would have gone mad. His journey in Solo from naive hopeless romantic to the cynical smuggler we know is no shallower then his arc from cynical smuggler to reluctant Rebel hero was in ANH.

Chewbacca : In general I loved Han and Chewies interactions in the film but felt that they could have made it more obvious as to why Chewie owes Han a life debt. He wasn't being fed so helping him escape probably did save his life, but my head canon for that moment had always been Han saving him from an actual execution rather then them teaming up for a breakout.

Lando : Donald Glover, in contrast to Alden does sound like he's channelling Billy Dee Williams in both his line delivery and body Language and he absolutely nails it. Love the way he bounced off everyone, from his reluctant acceptance of his ever shrinking cut with Beckett to his reaction to Qi-Ra using one of his bespoke capes to put out a fire. The film leaves them at a place where if they never meet again, Hans uncertainty over how he'll react works.

L3 : Between K2SO and L3 the comedic robot sidekick seems to be just as much a trope in these films as it is in the Saga. Albeit they're a bit surlier in the Anthology films. L3's droid rights militancy is clearly Star Wars poking fun at itself over the perception that its really Social justice Wars.

Tobias Beckett and his crew :
Woody Harrelson, Thandie Newton and John Favreau worked really well together in the limited time they were onscreen. Rio sounded a bit too Rocket Racoon but the Jokes landed better then most of K2SO's did in Rogue One so I'll forgive it. Harrelson plays his part of mentor well teaching Han in word as well as deed you can't trust anyone. His death at Hans hand a repudiation of Lucas's Greedo shoots first misadventure .

Dryden Voss & Qi-Ra :

Dryden is a bit of a weak Villain truth be told, but given his screen time Bettany does his best with what he's given. Emilia Clarke on the other hand has far more to sink her teeth into but just doesn't have the charisma or acting skills to absolutely nail it . On second watch I picked up on some foreshadowing of the mindset that led to her making the choice she does at the end. In the first act on Corellia she voices concerns that about what will happen once they escape, how they will make ends meet, essentially will they just be trading one Mob Boss for another. Han the cocky optimist brushes it off , but it informs where her heads at early on. Later when they are reunited Han continues to talk about freeing her from her situation and she continues to deflect, we think because she thinks trying would get Han killed, but really because she feels the best way to get out from under the thumb of a criminal organisation is to rise to the top of it(well almost). There's a wistfullness everytime Qi-Ra talks about her time with or possible future with Han in the film, as she knows it's never going to happen. To draw an analogy with another franchise's origin story, there's shades of Casino Royale in how Qi-Ra/Vespers betrayal hardens Han/Bond into the cynical Smuggler/Spy we know. I only wish they had cast Eva Green in the Role instead of Clarke.

They left things on just the right note such that a direct sequel isn't really necessary to make things link up with the OT, even if the Box Office supported it(which obviously it doesn't). Any dangling threads can be picked up in a Londo or Boba Fett film complete with contractually obligated Han Solo cameo.

All in all good not great film, given how ****e the prequels and sequels have been I consider that a victory. I'd rank the films 1. ESB 2. ANH 3. ROTJ 4.Rogue One 5. Solo

Bowlardo · 02-06-2018 9:45pm

Saw it today and enjoyed it.
The robot was dreadful and annoying.
Thought yer man did a decent Han
Clarke was ok I was expecting worse.
Woody was good character

Vladimir Poontang · 02-06-2018 9:45pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

David was a massive bellend.

He was like C3PO without an off button

Sad Professor · 02-06-2018 9:56pm

No attacking or insulting users who aren't here to defend themselves, guys. Infractions and bans will be handed out.

/mod

tigger123 · 02-06-2018 11:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as all Star Wars movies go, rogue one is one of the better ones, including the original 3

Also, the few seconds of screen time that Vader gets in rogue one, is possibly the greatest moment of Vader which has yet to be seen on film

Coming from a huge star wars fan

Would be inclined to agree with this. He was utterly terrifying in those moments, and you really got a sense of his power.

tigger123 · 02-06-2018 11:27pm

Went to see it last night and enjoyed it. I didn't think there was any evidence of the troubled production whatsoever.

I thought Ehrenreich did an excellent job as Han. I thought you could see just enough of the later Han in his performance, and at the same time he was a younger, more naive person who is still trying to find his way in the world. You can see how these kind of experiences turn him into the cynical person we meet in Episode IV.

Woody Harrelson was excellent, as was Paul Bettany, Donald Glover was very good, but I thought Emilia Clarke was a bit of a misstep. She was competent enough in the role, but I don't think she really brought anything to it tbh. She's so bland.

Story was very good; it's a space cowboy heist movie, and the cameo really worked for me. I thought because of the time lines it was

going to be Kenobi

but was pleasantly surprised.

The way the story shifted at the end to fit into the rebellion and dark side was also a pleasant surprise.

ZeitgeistGlee · 03-06-2018 1:31pm

Saw it last night, wasn't expecting much out of it and came away thinking it was about a 6 but that with the right handling it could've been a much better film with much the same elements.

Tonally the movie was all over the place jumping from serious to comedic and back again (or vice versa) in short spaces of time which broke any attempt to generate drama. The fact it was a prequel and therefore your core cast are walking around with plotshields set to maximum doesn't help either.

I didn't particularly care for Ehrenreich as Han, I can understand him not wanting to try to ape Ford's performance* but I felt he lacked even the same presence Ford brought to the role and that more often than not the title character was overshadowed by other members of the cast.

The story wasn't anything better than alright, Han's Legacy backstory was perfectly decent and I didn't see the need to rewrite it to give him a (poorer) Leia before Leia and make him the Luke (shining optimist) of his own movie given that reduces the impact Luke has on Han's character in ANH. It reminded me more of Firefly/Serenity than (underworld) Star Wars.

L3 could've been a more interesting character (droid's rights movements have actually yielded some good plotlines in Star Wars before) had she been toned down a bit instead of being a caricature which would've made any implicit relationship with Lando more interesting/compelling.

I enjoyed Glover's Lando but the fact that he

was willing to wager the Falcon in a sabaac game after L3's brain has been uploaded into it, rigged or not (and amateur rigging at that), left a bad taste in my mouth given how he was shown reacting to her "death" (or that Han was so insistent of the Falcon as opposed to another modified YT-1300 knowing L3's brain was it there).

I wish more effort was made to make planets feel like actual places with their own distinct customs and cultures (particularly given Corellia's significance in the old lore) as opposed to thinly-veiled stand ins for real life. Likewise I wish writers would stop falling back on the ugly aliens for bad guys thing, at this point in the Star Wars timeline it's the humanocentric Empire that as opposed to be the bad guys

that scene where Lady Proximo's clearly alien enforcer seems to order to two Stormtroopers to help him capture two humans or Vos is able to murder a regional governor without Imperial response just made me grit my teeth. I'm not even going to start on Maul being back (yes I know it was in Rebels first).

[/oldStarWarsnerdrant]

*Which I don't quite get given we're supposed to be seeing a character who's only a few years younger than ANH Han so logically Disney really should've been shooting for someone who captures the essence of Ford's take on young Solo.

PhiloCypher · 03-06-2018 2:28pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Went to see it last night and enjoyed it. I didn't think there was any evidence of the troubled production whatsoever.

I thought Ehrenreich did an excellent job as Han. I thought you could see just enough of the later Han in his performance, and at the same time he was a younger, more naive person who is still trying to find his way in the world. You can see how these kind of experiences turn him into the cynical person we meet in Episode IV.

Woody Harrelson was excellent, as was Paul Bettany, Donald Glover was very good, but I thought Emilia Clarke was a bit of a misstep. She was competent enough in the role, but I don't think she really brought anything to it tbh. She's so bland.

Story was very good; it's a space cowboy heist movie, and the cameo really worked for me. I thought because of the time lines it was
going to be Kenobi
but was pleasantly surprised.
The way the story shifted at the end to fit into the rebellion and dark side was also a pleasant surprise.

I agree , Rogue Ones behind the scenes issues were far more apparent in the final product then Solo's are in its, and I really like Rogue One.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Saw it last night, wasn't expecting much out of it and came away thinking it was about a 6 but that with the right handling it could've been a much better film with much the same elements.

Tonally the movie was all over the place jumping from serious to comedic and back again (or vice versa) in short spaces of time which broke any attempt to generate drama. The fact it was a prequel and therefore your core cast are walking around with plotshields set to maximum doesn't help either.

Where's this tonal whiplash your talking about, do you have examples ? I found it fairly consistent tonally. Its a fun adventure film, at no point is it sooo serious that a moment of levity ruins it.

Falthyron · 03-06-2018 2:33pm

kerplun k wrote: »

I was expecting to see a ton of posts from David. He’s normally all over the Star Wars threads. I’d like to know his thoughts on this one.

He's banned until the end of June, I think. You don't really need to see David's writings to know his thoughts. I reckon he loved it and thinks it is the best Star Wars film of the Disney era yet. It is how David defends the films and his reasoning behind it which makes these threads more interesting.

As I have said previously, I enjoyed the film for what it is when you look past certain elements (Alden, the fan service, etc). If I was a twelve year old kid watching Solo and I had very little exposure to the old trilogy, I would probably think Han is one cool guy and I would love to see what he will get up to next. Unfortunately, I am not 12, and I still fail to see beyond the cynical money grab that it is to justify its existence.

Falthyron · 03-06-2018 2:37pm

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

I enjoyed Glover's Lando but the fact that he
was willing to wager the Falcon in a sabaac game after L3's brain has been uploaded into it, rigged or not (and amateur rigging at that), left a bad taste in my mouth given how he was shown reacting to her "death" (or that Han was so insistent of the Falcon as opposed to another modified YT-1300 knowing L3's brain was it there).

That's a very good point, but I guess Lando was so confident

of winning (almost guaranteed with the ace in his sleeve) that he felt so sure he wasn't risking losing L3.

If anything, I think it adds to his character because it shows how self-confident he is, and a bit of a bluffer too. I do agree though that his reaction

to losing

should have been more pronounced considering the circumstances.

tigger123 · 03-06-2018 3:10pm

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Saw it last night, wasn't expecting much out of it and came away thinking it was about a 6 but that with the right handling it could've been a much better film with much the same elements.

Tonally the movie was all over the place jumping from serious to comedic and back again (or vice versa) in short spaces of time which broke any attempt to generate drama. The fact it was a prequel and therefore your core cast are walking around with plotshields set to maximum doesn't help either.

I didn't particularly care for Ehrenreich as Han, I can understand him not wanting to try to ape Ford's performance* but I felt he lacked even the same presence Ford brought to the role and that more often than not the title character was overshadowed by other members of the cast.

The story wasn't anything better than alright, Han's Legacy backstory was perfectly decent and I didn't see the need to rewrite it to give him a (poorer) Leia before Leia and make him the Luke (shining optimist) of his own movie given that reduces the impact Luke has on Han's character in ANH. It reminded me more of Firefly/Serenity than (underworld) Star Wars.

L3 could've been a more interesting character (droid's rights movements have actually yielded some good plotlines in Star Wars before) had she been toned down a bit instead of being a caricature which would've made any implicit relationship with Lando more interesting/compelling.

I enjoyed Glover's Lando but the fact that he
was willing to wager the Falcon in a sabaac game after L3's brain has been uploaded into it, rigged or not (and amateur rigging at that), left a bad taste in my mouth given how he was shown reacting to her "death" (or that Han was so insistent of the Falcon as opposed to another modified YT-1300 knowing L3's brain was it there).

I wish more effort was made to make planets feel like actual places with their own distinct customs and cultures (particularly given Corellia's significance in the old lore) as opposed to thinly-veiled stand ins for real life. Likewise I wish writers would stop falling back on the ugly aliens for bad guys thing, at this point in the Star Wars timeline it's the humanocentric Empire that as opposed to be the bad guys
that scene where Lady Proximo's clearly alien enforcer seems to order to two Stormtroopers to help him capture two humans or Vos is able to murder a regional governor without Imperial response just made me grit my teeth. I'm not even going to start on Maul being back (yes I know it was in Rebels first).
[/oldStarWarsnerdrant]

*Which I don't quite get given we're supposed to be seeing a character who's only a few years younger than ANH Han so logically Disney really should've been shooting for someone who captures the essence of Ford's take on young Solo.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I agree , Rogue Ones behind the scenes issues were far more apparent in the final product then Solo's are in its, and I really like Rogue One.

Where's this tonal whiplash your talking about, do you have examples ? I found it fairly consistent tonally. Its a fun adventure film, at no point is it sooo serious that a moment of levity ruins it.

I did notice the tone shift every now and again, but I put that down to it being a 12A and the film not wanting to dwell too much on the peril/drama without relieving it with a bit of humour.

ZeitgeistGlee · 03-06-2018 4:03pm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Where's this tonal whiplash your talking about, do you have examples ? I found it fairly consistent tonally.

A couple off the top of my head:

The overplaying of the rock/thermal detonator scene. It's sandwiched between two dramatic scenes and serves no point other than to break the tension. You could have exactly the same scene minus the "that's just a rock and you made a click sound!" where Han bluffs his way out of the room with Qi'ra which maintains the drama/tragedy of their eventual separation which IMO would've made more sense.

A lot of the structure of Miniban, again rather than use the scenes to reinforce Han's distrust of hierarchy and the brutal nature of the Empire we get something out of Warhammer 40K. I mean **** it, the movie basically just glosses over that apparently before he met Han Chewie ATE people because hey Han can speak a bit of Shyriiwook and they can have a painfully drawn out pretend fight.

A good portion of L3's lines being over delivered, particularly when they're contrasted against some of her more subdued lines.

The droid revolt on Kessel contrasted against the fact it's literally a slave mine where people were dying but hey here's a gonk droid jumping on a control panel even though right next to it are a bunch of Wookies are being jabbed with shocksticks.

I'm not saying you can't have drama and comedy, or that the interquels have to be these totally solemn affairs (although I think the ROTS - ANH period should be darker because it's a horrible fecking time in the galaxy as a whole and Han was always supposed to have a darker feel about his character compared to others), just don't defeat your dramatic scenes by sandwiching in comedy.

Personal preference, I would've preferred a slightly higher rated movie that could take advantage of showing the seedier side of Star Wars's galactic underworld.

tigger123 wrote: »

I did notice the tone shift every now and again, but I put that down to it being a 12A and the film not wanting to dwell too much on the peril/drama without relieving it with a bit of humour.

Pretty much.

Falthyron wrote: »

That's a very good point, but I guess Lando was so confident
of winning (almost guaranteed with the ace in his sleeve) that he felt so sure he wasn't risking losing L3.
If anything, I think it adds to his character because it shows how self-confident he is, and a bit of a bluffer too. I do agree though that his reaction
to losing
should have been more pronounced considering the circumstances.

Pretty much

if you remove the navicomputer database from L3 and given her something else to make her character relevant then you have still have everything you had in the movie (barring the brain upload) and the Falcon is still a prize worth gambling over without this weird undertone.

I mean personally I feel Han winning the Falcon should've been like Rocky vs Apollo at the end of Rocky 3: we get the sit down, the initial banter and the deal and that's it because we know the ending and less is more. (And audiences aren't composed of idiots particularly when you showed how Lando was cheating earlier).

Tony EH · 03-06-2018 4:07pm

If anyone thought the tonal whiplash in 'Solo' was bad, 'The Last Jedi' must have snapped their neck in two.

Falthyron · 03-06-2018 4:07pm

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Pretty much
if you remove the navicomputer database from L3 and given her something else to make her character relevant then you have still have everything you had in the movie (barring the brain upload) and the Falcon is still a prize worth gambling over without this weird undertone.

I mean personally I feel Han winning the Falcon should've been like Rocky vs Apollo at the end of Rocky 3: we get the sit down, the initial banter and the deal and that's it because we know the ending and less is more. (And audiences aren't composed of idiots particularly when you showed how Lando was cheating earlier).

I do like how there is a scene with C3-PO in Empire (iirc) where he tells Han that the computer in the Falcon speaks a 'peculiar dialect'.

thegreengoblin · 03-06-2018 6:09pm

Finally got round to seeing it on Saturday through a combination of the good weather and other factors...which meant it was the longest I've ever waited to see a Star Wars film. And I wasn't really too bothered about it which kind of sums up my expectations going into it.

I enjoyed it but if we had never got this film I don't think I'd find myself desperately hoping it would be made. It was a solid action/adventure yarn with some strong performances and a decent plot which doesn't confuse the audience or try to be too clever. Although I did raise an eyebrow or two at the constant double-crossing that went on towards the end.

Alden Ehrenreich's performance was fine. He caught some of Ford's mannerisms well but at the same time he didn't try to ape him. But you would have a hard time believing that Han Solo in ANH is supposed to be the same person. Donald Glover was spot on, almost too good with the voice. I didn't dislike Emelia Clarke as much as I expected (she's awful in GoT) but no way has she got the acting chops to carry a role as big as that in a major film.

As a longtime EU fan I enjoyed picking up on some references throughout the film, as well as the echoes from some of the other films. I will never get tired of hearing the Asteroid Field music. As someone said earlier, the Kessel run was a bit of a letdown.

But I wish we got to see much more of Corellia. I'm a bit of an industrial landscape freak and I always found the place very intriguing in the books and comics. The visual tone of the film didn't bother me like some and it was great to see new worlds explored. I think the film was really finding its feet towards the end and I'd happily go and see another film, which is not going to happen now I think we can surmise. Given the production problems, I think it was a solid 6.5 out of 10.

PhiloCypher · 03-06-2018 6:15pm

Falthyron wrote: »

He's banned until the end of June, I think. You don't really need to see David's writings to know his thoughts. I reckon he loved it and thinks it is the best Star Wars film of the Disney era yet. It is how David defends the films and his reasoning behind it which makes these threads more interesting.

As I have said previously, I enjoyed the film for what it is when you look past certain elements (Alden, the fan service, etc). If I was a twelve year old kid watching Solo and I had very little exposure to the old trilogy, I would probably think Han is one cool guy and I would love to see what he will get up to next. Unfortunately, I am not 12, and I still fail to see beyond the cynical money grab that it is to justify its existence.

All big budget movies are cynical money grabs. Who spends 100 mill on a movie and doesn't expect a return. As long as its enjoyable who cares if the people behind it were motivated by money or art. I find cynical oscar grabs movies way more annoying.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

A couple off the top of my head:
The overplaying of the rock/thermal detonator scene. It's sandwiched between two dramatic scenes and serves no point other than to break the tension. You could have exactly the same scene minus the "that's just a rock and you made a click sound!" where Han bluffs his way out of the room with Qi'ra which maintains the drama/tragedy of their eventual separation which IMO would've made more sense.

Sorry what were these serious dramatic scenes its sandwiched between ? Before the Lady Proxima scene we see Han escape from wherever he stole the coaxium and return to Qi-Ra where they briefly discuss buying a ship and getting out of dodge. After the lady Proxima scene they escape in a speeder and are chased all the way to the space port with Han cracking cliche chase scene jokes(its not my favourite section of the movie). Its all tonally consistent. I think the tonal whiplash you're experiencing is between the tone you wanted the movie to strike (gritty noir perhaps) and the tone the movie actually struck(fun action romp), because the film, in my opinion, is internally very consistent in setting that tone

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

A lot of the structure of Miniban, again rather than use the scenes to reinforce Han's distrust of hierarchy and the brutal nature of the Empire we get something out of Warhammer 40K. I mean **** it, the movie basically just glosses over that apparently before he met Han Chewie ATE people because hey Han can speak a bit of Shyriiwook and they can have a painfully drawn out pretend fight.

Its Star Wars , we were never going to get Schindlers list, the tone it strikes instead was Three Kings, a subtly humorous Clooney Wahlberg Vehicle that see's a couple of soldiers try and Rob Saddams gold in the midst of Gulf war one, before eventually giving it all up to save a bunch of people/fund a rebellion. Again not what you wanted but tonally consistent with the sort of film they were going for. As for Chewie how much time do you think the film should have devoted to the implication that Chewie had, in desperation eaten a humanoid. How would such a scene go ?. Look, I agree, we could have done without that implication, its stupid, so why the hell would we want to dwell on it. As for the fight its 2-3 mins tops, hardly drawn out.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

A good portion of L3's lines being over delivered, particularly when they're contrasted against some of her more subdued lines.

The droid revolt on Kessel contrasted against the fact it's literally a slave mine where people were dying but hey here's a gonk droid jumping on a control panel even though right next to it are a bunch of Wookies are being jabbed with shocksticks.

L3 had subdued lines ? news to me. Watching the film I knew she was going to be a marmite character. Her OTT droid rights activism clearly being Disney poking fun at itself for its percieved SJW agenda since taking over Star Wars. I can see how she'd be incredibly annoying to anyone who didn't get that subtext on first watch tho. As for the slave mine and the wookies, look dude its star wars. Did Lando and Nien Numb stop to consider all the innocent contractors when they blew up the 2nd death star. Did the rebels stick around to help the ewoks when the Death star debris deorbits and destroys their ecosystem. These are fun adventure films, you can't stop to acknowledge every little thing.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

I'm not saying you can't have drama and comedy, or that the interquels have to be these totally solemn affairs (although I think the ROTS - ANH period should be darker because it's a horrible fecking time in the galaxy as a whole and Han was always supposed to have a darker feel about his character compared to others), just don't defeat your dramatic scenes by sandwiching in comedy.

Personal preference, I would've preferred a slightly higher rated movie that could take advantage of showing the seedier side of Star Wars's galactic underworld.

As I said earlier and you say here. The tonal whiplash is between the tone you wish the film struck and the tone it actually struck. The film IS tonally consistent, that tone is just not dark enough for you.

ZeitgeistGlee · 03-06-2018 6:16pm

Tony EH wrote: »

If anyone thought the tonal whiplash in 'Solo' was bad, 'The Last Jedi' must have snapped their neck in two.

I mean, yeah, pretty much. (Although "whiplash" was Philo's word and probably a bit strong for my intent.)

To give Solo it's credit though it didn't have Han get given his DL-44 blaster and then casually toss it over his shoulder, or squeeze fresh green breast/udder milk into his mouth from a giant alien cow thing (or destroy any promise/mystery/hope for the final movie of the trilogy but I'll leave that for another rant).

Falthyron wrote: »

I do like how there is a scene with C3-PO in Empire (iirc) where he tells Han that the computer in the Falcon speaks a 'peculiar dialect'.

Yeah, I'd always put that down to the Falcon's computer having a Corellian accent/cant given their famed independent streak, but it was a nice callback all the same.

I found it a bit odd Bossk got name dropped as well for

Beckett's potential crew, I mean the guy is a bounty hunter.

murpho999 · 03-06-2018 6:20pm

I saw this last night and thought it was fine.

Some things I liked and some things I didn't like.

I do think they missed an opportunity.

As Harrison Ford is in his 70s now I think people tend to think of Han Solo as older. Thing is Han Solo was 30-35 in Star Wars but I'm guessing this "young Solo" is 25ish so why didn't they go back further?

Where is he from, what sort of youth did he have, family etc? They could have done so much more.

Instead we just see him introduced as an on the run trickster and no idea how he got there.

Then he joins the Empire who have the worse selection/recruitment process I have ever seen and they ridiculously give him the "Solo" name.
Not much info of what happened whilst there. A missed opportunity again.

At points I was bored. There is no sense of real danger as you know the characters survive.

I enjoyed the backstory of Chewbacca but would love to know how Han Solo can speak his language. Again another missed opportunity.

Think it picked up after the heist and wrapped up well at the end.

I think the betrayal by Qi'ra in the end shows how Solo had trust issues in his life and never really had a happy relationship in the future.

I hope there's no more sequels to this. As they'll just turn into adventure and action movies and add nothing to Star Wars.

So it's just fine nothing more.

Unlike many here, I have enjoyed the reboot. Unlikely many here, I enjoyed TFA. Loved Rogue One, and enjoyed TLJ.
The criticism by many of TLJ is ott in my opinion. Too many people expecting the same thrill they got watching Star Wars as kids whilst now in their adulthood and that's not going to happen.

I think Disney though need to pull back a bit. Close off the episodic element well in Episode 9 and then take the franchise to new places and galaxies as prequels with old characters is not going to add anything.

PhiloCypher · 03-06-2018 6:39pm

murpho999 wrote: »

I saw this last night and thought it was fine.

Some things I liked and some things I didn't like.

I do think they missed an opportunity.

As Harrison Ford is in his 70s now I think people tend to think of Han Solo as older. Thing is Han Solo was 30-35 in Star Wars but I'm guessing this "young Solo" is 25ish so why didn't they go back further?

Where is he from, what sort of youth did he have, family etc? They could have done so much more.

Instead we just see him introduced as an on the run trickster and no idea how he got there.

Then he joins the Empire who have the worse selection/recruitment process I have ever seen and they ridiculously give him the "Solo" name.
Not much info of what happened whilst there. A missed opportunity again.

At points I was bored. There is no sense of real danger as you know the characters survive.

I enjoyed the backstory of Chewbacca but would love to know how Han Solo can speak his language. Again another missed opportunity.

Think it picked up after the heist and wrapped up well at the end.

I think the betrayal by Qi'ra in the end shows how Solo had trust issues in his life and never really had a happy relationship in the future.

I hope there's no more sequels to this. As they'll just turn into adventure and action movies and add nothing to Star Wars.

So it's just fine nothing more.

Unlike many here, I have enjoyed the reboot. Unlikely many here, I enjoyed TFA. Loved Rogue One, and enjoyed TLJ.
The criticism by many of TLJ is ott in my opinion. Too many people expecting the same thrill they got watching Star Wars as kids whilst now in their adulthood and that's not going to happen.

I think Disney though need to pull back a bit. Close off the episodic element well in Episode 9 and then take the franchise to new places and galaxies as prequels with old characters is not going to add anything.

What, like a line of explanation, a derailing 15 minute flashback where we see him choose Wookie as his second language in school, a film ? In all seriousness, this is the sort of fine detail the books can fill in. As I said in a previous post, you can't go in depth into every little thing, its not that sort of film.

pixelburp · 03-06-2018 6:44pm

One small incidental detail I did like was the recruitment video for the Imperial forces during the scenes on Corellia; the advert used the Imperial March theme, only with a raised key so it sounded more upbeat and triumphant (don't know musical science, so not sure if 'key' is the right term). Aside from making the infamous Williams' score 'official' canon, it was a neat little tweak that ever so subtly showed a different perspective of the Empire at ground level. More of that kind of thing could be interesting.

murpho999 · 03-06-2018 7:02pm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

What, like a line of explanation, a derailing 15 minute flashback where we see him choose Wookie as his second language in school, a film ? In all seriousness, this is the sort of fine detail the books can fill in. As I said in a previous post, you can't go in depth into every little thing, its not that sort of film.

If you're going to devote a film to a character then give the character his story.

We learnt very little about Solo in this film apart from how he met Chewbacca, lost a girl, did the kessel run and won the Millenium Falcon.

I would prefer to know what made him what he was.

So it wouldn't have been a 15 minute flashback it would have been an entirely different film.

ZeitgeistGlee · 03-06-2018 7:17pm

I'm assuming spoiler tags should be used so you'll need to go edit your post Philo.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Sorry what were these serious dramatic scenes its sandwiched between ? Before the Lady Proxima scene we see Han escape from wherever he stole the coaxium and return to Qi-Ra where they briefly discuss buying a ship and getting out of dodge. After the lady Proxima scene they escape in a speeder and are chased all the way to the space port with Han cracking cliche chase scene jokes(its not my favourite section of the movie). Its all tonally consistent. I think the tonal whiplash you're experiencing is between the tone you wanted the movie to strike (gritty noir perhaps) and the tone the movie actually struck(fun action romp), because the film, in my opinion, is internally very consistent in setting that tone.

Eh the bit where Han and Qi'ra were planning their basic post-slavery life together, followed by Lady Promixa saying she was going to kill Han for his failure (the serious bits) which then led to "that's a rock not a detonator" (weird off-tone comedy) to Han and Qi'ra desperately trying to escape Proxima and her enforcer who was trying to capture/kill them and bribe a guard to get offworld but then they're tragically separated and Han is forced to join the Imperial Navy as a way of ensuring he does while resolutely planning to return to free Qi'ra (more serious bit). I thought that one was pretty obvious to be honest but it also brings to mind the needless origin storying of Han's last name.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Its Star Wars , we were never going to get Schindlers list, the tone it strikes instead was Three Kings, a subtly humorous Clooney Wahlberg Vehicle that see's a couple of soldiers try and Rob Saddams gold in the midst of Gulf war one, before eventually giving it all up to save a bunch of people/fund a rebellion. Again not what you wanted but tonally consistent with the sort of film they were going for. As for Chewie how much time do you think the film should have devoted to the implication that Chewie had, in desperation eaten a humanoid. How would such a scene go ?. Look, I agree, we could have done without that implication, its stupid, so why the hell would we want to dwell on it. As for the fight its 2-3 mins tops, hardly drawn out.

Putting the war on Miniban aside for a sec (because really Han rescuing Chewie while he was at the Imperial Naval academy on Carida like the old lore would've sidestepped the need to even feature a warzone in the firstplace and I'm sure Beckett and co. robbing an AT transport from Carida could've been handwaved in too) it's the fact they specifically went with ATE over KILLED which given he had no later relevance seems needless. This isn't some throwaway character we're talking about, this is Chewie.

As for Miniban itself, I'm not looking for Schindler's List but I don't understand the point of presenting it as a WW1-esque meatgrinder that has Han effectively go "OK nuts to this I'm out of here" while lacing it with humour that seems more at home in something like 40K (commanding officer gets blown up in front of Han, Beckett acts with impunity due to an incompetent lesser-ranked officer, Han getting fed to a "monster"etc) than Star Wars.

L3 had subdued lines ? news to me. Watching the film I knew she was going to be a marmite character. Her OTT droid rights activism clearly being Disney poking fun at itself for its percieved SJW agenda since taking over Star Wars. I can see how she'd be incredibly annoying to anyone who didn't get that subtext on first watch tho. As for the slave mine and the wookies, look dude its star wars. Did Lando and Nien Numb stop to consider all the innocent contractors when they blew up the 2nd death star. Did the rebels stick around to help the ewoks when the Death star debris deorbits and destroys their ecosystem. These are fun adventure films, you can't stop to acknowledge every little thing.

A couple but they're there (her quieter thoughts about her partnership with Lando). I mean personally I have no issue with L3*, but that's more so because the concept of droid rights waaay precedes the recent claims that Star Wars is being "tainted with SJW ideals" and it's a favoured part of the old lore for me. Even the "droid with a kooky personality" thing doesn't really bother me although I'd prefer more of the HK-47 variety. :pac:

*I would've preferred she not been the vessel for the Falcon's navicomputer maps for the reasons I've already outlined though just because of how weird it makes it later.

"Dude it's Star Wars" isn't a counterargument though. This is the same series that had Vader ideologically break Luke by revealing his true identity, and Vader slaughter a room full of children when he was Luke's age. Or Kylo and his FO troopers slaughtering a village of innocents at the start of TFA. Star Wars is allowed to be dark. Like you could have the slave rebellion still happen almost identically, you just show it being less slapstick or have the whole thing be slapstick but don't mix and match to the point it seems weird.

As I said earlier and you say here. The tonal whiplash is between the tone you wish the film struck and the tone it actually struck. The film IS tonally consistent, that tone is just not dark enough for you.

Eh no, as I said, I have no issue with the comedic scenes, I just wish they'd been properly set/paced like for instance

most of Rio's scenes were great.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

What, like a line of explanation, a derailing 15 minute flashback where we see him choose Wookie as his second language in school, a film ? In all seriousness, this is the sort of fine detail the books can fill in. As I said in a previous post, you can't go in depth into every little thing, its not that sort of film.

Or you could just, you know, write the movie in such a way that it explains how he understands Shyriiwook so it's not a question later. I mean it wasn't even a big explanation in the old lore, he lived on a ship with a Wookiee cook (and others) during part of his childhood/adolescence and picked it up from her.

PhiloCypher · 03-06-2018 9:11pm

murpho999 wrote: »

If you're going to devote a film to a character then give the character his story.

We learnt very little about Solo in this film apart from how he met Chewbacca, lost a girl, did the kessel run and won the Millenium Falcon.

I would prefer to know what made him what he was.

So it wouldn't have been a 15 minute flashback it would have been an entirely different film.

What he was in this film or what he was when we meet him in ANH ? If its the latter I think

with all the betrayal he experiences

, this film does a good job of showing why he became the cynical smuggler we know from ANH. If its the former they would have had to go down the Batman Begins route with multiple timelines being told concurrently which isn't Star Wars style, because nobody wants an entire film of teen Han just so we know why twenty something Han is the way he is(thats just going too far down the rabbit hole).

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

I'm assuming spoiler tags should be used so you'll need to go edit your post Philo.

Eh the bit where Han and Qi'ra were planning their basic post-slavery life together, followed by Lady Promixa saying she was going to kill Han for his failure (the serious bits) which then led to "that's a rock not a detonator" (weird off-tone comedy) to Han and Qi'ra desperately trying to escape Proxima and her enforcer who was trying to capture/kill them and bribe a guard to get offworld but then they're tragically separated and Han is forced to join the Imperial Navy as a way of ensuring he does while resolutely planning to return to free Qi'ra (more serious bit). I thought that one was pretty obvious to be honest but it also brings to mind the needless origin storying of Han's last name.

Two people talking about getting out of dodge and a subsequent chase scene does not preclude a bit of levity or gallows humour in an action/adventure film like this. Happens all the time. I totally agree that joke is kind of lame and if the film was aiming for a more serious overall tone it might seem out of place but its not. Its an fun action/adventure.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Putting the war on Miniban aside for a sec (because really Han rescuing Chewie while he was at the Imperial Naval academy on Carida like the old lore would've sidestepped the need to even feature a warzone in the firstplace and I'm sure Beckett and co. robbing an AT transport from Carida could've been handwaved in too) it's the fact they specifically went with ATE over KILLED which given he had no later relevance seems needless. This isn't some throwaway character we're talking about, this is Chewie.

As for Miniban itself, I'm not looking for Schindler's List but I don't understand the point of presenting it as a WW1-esque meatgrinder that has Han effectively go "OK nuts to this I'm out of here" while lacing it with humour that seems more at home in something like 40K (commanding officer gets blown up in front of Han, Beckett acts with impunity due to an incompetent lesser-ranked officer, Han getting fed to a "monster"etc) than Star Wars.

Is Platoon less effective because there's moments of levity and humour to break the tension, is Full Metal Jacket ? lacing a bit of humour in there doesn't undermine the tone they're aiming for.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

A couple but they're there (her quieter thoughts about her partnership with Lando). I mean personally I have no issue with L3*, but that's more so because the concept of droid rights waaay precedes the recent claims that Star Wars is being "tainted with SJW ideals" and it's a favoured part of the old lore for me. Even the "droid with a kooky personality" thing doesn't really bother me although I'd prefer more of the HK-47 variety. :pac:

*I would've preferred she not been the vessel for the Falcon's navicomputer maps for the reasons I've already outlined though just because of how weird it makes it later.

Yeh the whole uploading L3 into the navicomputer seems a rather daft way to explain why the Millenium Falcon has a "peculiar dialect"

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

"Dude it's Star Wars" isn't a counterargument though. This is the same series that had Vader ideologically break Luke by revealing his true identity, and Vader slaughter a room full of children when he was Luke's age. Or Kylo and his FO troopers slaughtering a village of innocents at the start of TFA. Star Wars is allowed to be dark. Like you could have the slave rebellion still happen almost identically, you just show it being less slapstick or have the whole thing be slapstick but don't mix and match to the point it seems weird.

Never said star wars hasn't gone, or isn't allowed to go, dark. But those moments don't make this the Godfather saga. All those darker moments you mention happen in films balanced out with humour from the cast or droids. One shouldn't preclude the other. The Star Wars films, thus far, for good or ill, are marvelesque in that whether they go for a heist plot or a Western its always a mix of humour and seriousness. If they ever decide to go in depth into exploring serious subject matter and ruin it with a fart humour. I'll be the first to complain tho

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Eh no, as I said, I have no issue with the comedic scenes, I just wish they'd been properly set/paced like for instance
most of Rio's scenes were great.

I don't know , some of those good Rio scenes were sandwiched between the War is hell stuff on Minbian and Val dying in the heist. Are you sure ?

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Or you could just, you know, write the movie in such a way that it explains how he understands Shyriiwook so it's not a question later. I mean it wasn't even a big explanation in the old lore, he lived on a ship with a Wookiee cook (and others) during part of his childhood/adolescence and picked it up from her.

If you go down the rabbit hole of answering every question that the audience could possibly ask, where does it end tho ?

Sad Professor · 03-06-2018 9:57pm

I think this has been out long enough.

Spoilers from this post onwards. If you haven't seen the film yet and don't want to be spoiled, stop reading.

Greyfox · 03-06-2018 10:03pm

thegreengoblin wrote: »

(she's awful in GoT)

She's pretty good in GOT and she was above average in this. Seen it today, another good sw film, it was no force awakens but solid 7/10. Lando and his droid were excellent, would of liken to of seen more of Thanie Newton and how Han met chewie and got his name was cool

Vladimir Poontang · 03-06-2018 10:47pm

Emilia Clarke is an awful actress. In everything. Everything.

TerrorFirmer · 03-06-2018 11:23pm

I'm not going to go into great detail on this as The Last Jedi sucked the life out of me (not in the sense that I hated it, but the amount of time and effort I poured into detailed analysis and discussion here and elsewhere).

It's not terrible. It's not even bad. Acting is solid and we get a pretty credible representation of Han Solo.... and a very good one of Lando. Support cast is good, and visually the film has a warm familiar feel while doing it's own thing for the most part, I'd say it more takes cues from the original trilogy rather than being a full blown tribute like Rogue One was (understandably given the context of Rogue One).

It waned a lot for me in the third act and went out with a pretty uninspired whimper which disappointed me as there was so much promise there, but overall it's respectable. The lacklustre final act and Emilia Clarke's barely competent performance would be the major criticisms for me.

I would agree with others who say that the film was fine tone wise. It smacked very faithfully of the OT to me, and it wasn't even something I had considered throughout the movie itself at all as it just flowed at a fairly consistent level. The Last Jedi, which as much as I have time for it, made collosal blunders in that regard.

Also can state that in the screen I saw it in, there was zero lighting issues, everything was perfectly fine with good clarity so I guess it's just incredibly poor form on the part of some cinema's in how it's being projected.

However, for me the fundamental problem is this - I still walked out thinking it was a story that didn't need telling and the franchise is not really any richer for having witnessed it. Not to mention, Solo isn't really Han's 'backstory' as such at all and even its limited scope never quite hits the high notes you might expect (Han/Chewie's origin) in any really meaningful, deep or particularly convincing way.

Imagine if A New Hope suddenly froze when Han has a gun pulled on him by Greedo and a voice over says "You're probably wondering how I got myself into this situation. It all began one month earlier...."

Enter Solo.

Anyway, not a bad film overall. I'd say for me it'd be a 6.5/10.

youngblood · 03-06-2018 11:52pm

As someone who isnt a fan but who has watched these star wars films with a long time fan, Im finding the plot format mainly falls into this category,

-Exciting opening sequence
-Main problem identified and plan to overcome it established
-Some other adventure that needs to be completed which seems v tenuously connected to the main problem
-Plan to overcome main problem has some double bluff resolution
-Meh ending

If I hadnt heard about the movies laboured production, it wouldnt have been evident in the final cut- (To quote another) It was an aggressively competent movie. Although I see L3's humour may somehow hark back to an early iteration of Solo which was produced but somehow it leeched into Howard's final cut and didnt work with his final cut of the film...

Tony EH · 04-06-2018 12:35am

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Or you could just, you know, write the movie in such a way that it explains how he understands Shyriiwook so it's not a question later.

Or just not have something like that in there at all.

Solo speaking "Chewie" was bloody awful. One of the worst scenes in the film. It whiffs of Lord and Miller too.

There's just no need to have it in there either. Chewbacca speaks Solo's language, so we're all good. We don't need to hear Solo doing bad pub impressions of Chewbacca's voice to get that he can understand Wookie.

Cringy stuff altogether.

Vladimir Poontang · 04-06-2018 1:45am

I haven't seen or heard of a single fan who thought that was a good idea.

Makes you wonder what kind of ****in eejits they have working on these movies

ZeitgeistGlee · 04-06-2018 11:18am

Tony EH wrote: »

Or just not have something like that in there at all.

Solo speaking "Chewie" was bloody awful. One of the worst scenes in the film. It whiffs of Lord and Miller too.

There's just no need to have it in there either. Chewbacca speaks Solo's language, so we're all good. We don't need to hear Solo doing bad pub impressions of Chewbacca's voice to get that he can understand Wookie.

Cringy stuff altogether.

Definitely agree with Alden's gurgling being removed but if you're overtly detailing the beginning of the Han/Chewie partnership there has to be some explanation of how he understands the Wookiee language (albeit foregoing any attempt to speak it and vice-versa for Chewie speaking Basic).

That said I suppose the same point stands for how Luke and others understand astromech droids but I always assumed that was just ubiquitous after centuries/millennia while Shyriiwook is still really only spoken on Kashyyyk

Plague Maiden · 04-06-2018 11:36am

I'm not a huge fan of the Star Wars films. I've always been more interested in the Expanded Universe, or Star Wars Legends as Disney now wants us to call it. That sounds like an awfully hipster thing to say (or maybe it makes me a complete nerd, it's hard to keep up) but it practically happened by accident.

I remember getting swept up in the hype around The Phantom Menace when it was released but, as a gamer and a lover of animation, my key touchstones within the universe have been the Knights of the Old Republic series of Xbox RPGs and the two animated shows, Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003) and Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008). Cynic that I am, I think Star Wars' greatest achievement is in laying the ground-work for the Mass Effect trilogy, the space opera to end them all.

Anyway, I say all of that just to preface my comments about Solo: A Star Wars Story because I am the very definition of a casual fan (at least I was until last night, more on that later). I think I benefitted from that. Solo seems to have been dreamt up as an expensive piece of fan service but it's actually at its best when you let the popcorn wash over you, rather than trying to pin point references to the original trilogy. I haven't been hugely impressed by any of the four new films so for me it was what I expected. Light, silly, self-referential sci-fi lite. And that's absolutely fine. It's the weakest of the new crop, although for me Rogue One has been the best, so opinions will vary.

What I did enjoy about Solo was the comparatively low stakes. I understand that some people see that as a criticism but for me it was a strength. I went into Rogue One blind of the plot and, as much as I enjoyed the film, I actually burst out laughing when I realised that it was going to be the fourth film in an (at that point) eight film series that would involve a Death Star/Starkiller Base. In comparison, Solo has much more of an on-the-ground, local feel, like something you'd come across in the Expanded Universe novels, for example, and that is exactly what I wanted when I first heard about these lone Star Wars Stories. In summary, I enjoyed it, but I'll probably never watch it again and that says it all.

More importantly for me, it sent me down a bit of a Star Wars rabbit hole over the weekend. I'd been meaning to 'rewatch' Revenge of the Sith for quite some time, but at about 30 minutes in I realised I'd never even seen it before! (casual fan status confirmed). Despite Lucas' best attempts to completely destroy it with CGI (amongst many other problems) it's still the best of the Prequels and, truth be told, I think I enjoyed it more than some of the recent entries in the series.

That led me onto revisiting the original trilogy. I'd only ever seen the originals a grand total of twice, on VHS in about 1999 and on DVD about 10 years ago. In fact I'm not even sure if I watched the full trilogy on both occasions. So this was going to feel like a new viewing, and it did. I watched all three yesterday and, for extra kudos, I downloaded Harmy's Despecialized Editions which, as you'll all know, removed all of Lucas' 1997 Special Edition enhancements.

I had a ball of a time and I finally felt like a 'got' the original trilogy. I'm not gonna lie, I can't remember any of the 1997 enhancements, so I can't say that the theatrical releases are better than the Special Editions or that my previous viewings were compromised by the CGI or Greedo shooting first. However, coming off the back of Revenge of the Sith, I just loved the physicality of the effects. Even some of the fight choreography put the newer film to shame (Windu v Palpatine is surely the low point of the series?). The original trilogy are the best of the bunch, that goes without saying, but visually they've aged way better than the Prequels that followed, and I suspect they'll also outlive the Sequels as well.

I feel that certain older effects, particularly stop-motion and puppetry/face masks, exist in a kind of time vacuum. They're dated, but they won't get any older looking than they already do. The classic examples are the black and white Godzilla and King Kong movies. They reached a point where they looked dated and they've stayed the same ever since. They don't look any more dated to me now than they when I first watched them 25 years ago. That's exactly how I feel about the physical, even the early digital effects, in the Star Wars trilogy. They're now timeless. In another ten years time they'll appear to my eyes exactly as they do now.

Contrast that with Revenge of the Sith. I'm not sure those effects will ever date well or be lovingly described as 'of their era'. There's just too much of it all over the place. But in any event we're not sufficiently removed from that film and that era to think any different. It currently just looks like a poor version of the contemporary CGI we're used to, rather than being its own thing.

Maybe it can break away from that. When I first watched Babylon 5 about 15 years ago I thought the digital effects looked horrendous. Rewatching it now, yes, they're very poor, but they're also in that twilight zone where it doesn't matter what they look like (although they'll never survive the passage of time like physical effects).

Those original trilogy theatrical releases really are the jewel in Lucas' cinematic crown. I just hope that Disney eventually see sense and give them the re-release they deserve.

Now I'm starting to sound like a fan!

04-06-2018 1:24pm

Reading through the latest comments and the spoilers, i think i am going to avoid this and probably future "disney star worse productions", i can just feel myself getting angrier and angrier and i didn't even see the film ha ha ha.

Hopefully it gets into the hands of some decent producers and directors that gives us adults an adult star wars film, these latest attempts are just too childish for my liking.

Solo (young Han Solo film) *spoilers from post 1493*

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Solo (young Han Solo film) spoilers from post 1493