Proposal for a Generous New Grant for First Time Buyers

notharrypotter

Where are the 198000 vacant houses?

Not where they are needed obviously.

Agree short term next election stroke in


Auction politics rules, everyone of us wants it all but rarely look as to how it will be funded.

cruizer101

BUILD MORE F**KING HOUSES, apologies for the caps but it is really starting to annoy me how much talk and effort is going into random proposals when there is only one solution to the current situation which is increased supply, this needs to be done through direct government building and policies which encourage it in the private sector (tax breaks for builders, tax on vacant site/properties, etc..) I really want to slap any politicians who talk about other nonsense policies re the housing situation. :mad: /rant

dubrov

There are plenty of threads on boards about self-builds of large detached houses for less than 200k.
Builders could easily build low cost FTB houses at a profit now if the land price was fair.

dubrov

dubrov wrote: »

There are plenty of threads on boards about self-builds of large detached houses for less than 200k.
Builders could easily build low cost FTB houses at a profit now if the land price was fair.

'Good Land' is currently scarce unfortunately (so the fair price is relatively high).

The Government does have the power to create more 'Good Land', thereby bringing the price down by linking sites to the city with good planned public transport links and re-zoning them.

Infrastructure development leads to great swathes of unconsidered sites becoming 'good land'.

We need to be proactive on this, and not require infrastructure shortages to prompt development.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

Where are the 198000 vacant houses?

Not where they are needed obviously.

According to this: 'Total vacant dwellings in Dublin, including holiday homes, numbered more than 36,000.' That's a massive number of empty homes in a place that's desperate for homes.

Villa05

Deleted User wrote:

The Government does have the power to create more 'Good Land', thereby bringing the price down by linking sites to the city with good planned public transport links and re-zoning them.

Tax development land that is not being developed. Simple solution

Villa05

Villa05 wrote: »

Tax development land that is not being developed. Simple solution

Deleted User wrote: »

Things that could be done to help Dublin's supply.

1 - Build some corporation houses (Very supply orientated)
2 - Build some public transport systems that adequately links 'green/brown' field sites (re-zoned) with the city (incentivize & lower cost of supply)
3 - Reconsider planning restrictions (1. Building height, 2. Room sizes, 3. 'Passivity') - (lower cost of supply)
4 - Vacant Site tax (increase cost of not-supply)
...
....
.....
......
999,999,999 - Give people some cash, won't help supply, will make houses more expensive, but sure looks like you're trying to help.

It is and it isn't.

As a standalone policy it would have almost no impact.

If someone really wants to hoard, they'll find ways (easily) to minimize the cost of doing so

Dec 2014 - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/how-developers-can-dodge-vacant-site-tax-for-three-years-30800708.html
May 2015 - http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/developers-could-avoid-tax-over-vacant-sites-31265651.html
Dec 2015 - http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/call-for-land-tax-to-compel-developers-to-build-on-vacant-sites-1.2470403

It would have to be part of a broader package of moves to stimulate construction, much of which would have to include bringing down the cost of construction.

karenalot

Villa05 wrote: »

Tax development land that is not being developed. Simple solution

Im presuming it will be part of the vacant site levy coming into force in 2018?

TheDoc

Massive amount of "****it, I'll happily take it". I've far too long advocated for sense and logic when it comes to our economy and politics. When all those around me where getting 1005+ mortages and being financially wreckless I was sitting there smug thinking "I'm playing it safe here, I'm being responsible, it will pay off".

Before I moved out to rent first, me and partner got mortgage approval everywhere we went. I was getting approval on my own. Said we would go rent, keep the savings going.

Then everything happened. Over night our home ownership prospects were written off with a stroke of a pen. Our savings were decimated by the rapid rise in the private sector. Blah blah, etc. etc.

So when this comes in, I'm going to happily apply, take my phat freebie from the state and give a massive shrug of the shoulders. sure if things go pear shaped, I'll have loads of politicians and people supporting me and my family against those pesky bankers. Sure its not my fault I was being financially wreckless.

Pretty sick of being safe and responsible in this country when it comes to laws, ethics and finances. So ****it, when this comes, off to buy I go.

TheDoc

UsBus wrote: »

I'm sick of this crap. First time buyers getting preferential treatment. I sold a couple of times over the last 10 years not making profit just moving with the intention of buying in a different area. Now I'm renting & priced out completely. Now you either have to be a millionaire or a FTB......nothing for anyone in between. Why can't each person be assessed by their application..??

Don't worry about it. Just be wreckless like loads of others have. Sure you don't get turfed out, politicans, free masons, tinfoil hat warriors, facebook groups, protests, Ben Gilroy, all the boys will protect you from those horrible banks who are screwing over the little guy.

Nobody questions or cares for your financial wrecklessness. So take it while its there. Caution to the win, grab all the freebies. Call it your entitlement.

The good times are back baby!

TheDoc

As a renter, who had his families home ownership prospects wiped out overnight, I love it. Couldn't give two ****s about anyone else. Just me.

I thought I was playing it smart when being approved for mortages left right and center during the recession, but we went renting to save up a bit more. Then the market went crazy, our prospects got signed off overnight and our savings got decimated with the spiraling cost of rent.

All the while the world and its mother protect those who were financially wreckless during the boom, or even more recently. Politicians and just about every advocacy group under the sun will spin the "pesky bankers screwing that poor family" shtick.

So ****it. Will happily take a grant, buy my own family home, and if **** goes south, who cares. We seem to be totally accepting of financial wrecklessness in this country, so no doubt even more legislation will come in from this popularity monster we call a government to further protect those in distress mortgage debt.

Michael D Not Higgins

Threads merged

TheDoc

mariaalice wrote: »

Maybe a tax credit or similar not a grant.

Well it's a tax refund, so its being described.

And whats wrong with that? Tax man took a whopper chunk of my annual bonus(thats never guaranteed, and rewards really good and hard work). A chunk that would be welcomed to enable me meet the Central Banks requirements.

Considering the amount of tax I pay, and my family qualifying for absolutely NOTHING in terms of state benefit, I'll happily take a tax refund.

My entire outlook on economics and ethics has changed in the last two years from what I've gone through. And basically its a massive **** everyone else bar me, and I'll take anything I can get to help us make a good life for our kids.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

As a renter, who had his families home ownership prospects wiped out overnight, I love it. Couldn't give two ****s about anyone else. Just me.

I thought I was playing it smart when being approved for mortages left right and center during the recession, but we went renting to save up a bit more. Then the market went crazy, our prospects got signed off overnight and our savings got decimated with the spiraling cost of rent.

All the while the world and its mother protect those who were financially wreckless during the boom, or even more recently. Politicians and just about every advocacy group under the sun will spin the "pesky bankers screwing that poor family" shtick.

So ****it. Will happily take a grant, buy my own family home, and if **** goes south, who cares. We seem to be totally accepting of financial wrecklessness in this country, so no doubt even more legislation will come in from this popularity monster we call a government to further protect those in distress mortgage debt.

Well actually some of us are staring in disbelief at the exact same financially reckless policies being unearthed from their deserved grave and being presented to us as solutions for anything!

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Well actually some of us are staring in disbelief at the exact same financially reckless policies being unearthed from their deserved grave and being presented to us as solutions for anything!

Sorry I should have clarified, I meant personal finances.

I've heard puff pieces from newstalk, national papers, other radio stations, posts here, posts there, stories locally the works.

People being utterly wreckless in their planning, and essentially being stupid, and being given a free pass "cause its all the bankers fault". We have this really weird situation where we feel uncomfortable telling people "Well sorry, you done and ****ed up".

Believe me I've looked in disbelief at what most recent governments have done for solve various issues and been unable to fathom it. But I've just switched to a certain "****it" mantra, where I happily take the gifts they give. Giveaway budgets, giveaway elections. I know the greater ramifications and I know and understand the finer points about a lot of stuff.

But then you have people who vote in the Healy Raeys, or Mick Wallace, and you realise there is literally no ****ing point putting so much effort into it all, and that the entire system is broke. And now we have this absolute monstrosity of a government. So I'll happily take all the freebies and benefits and whatever comes my way before it all catches a blaze and crumbles.

bleary

I can't imagine there will be any provision for buyers of second hand property, it might actually depress the prices there for a while.

They will attempt to justify it for new builds , meeting environmental goals and increasing supply.

There was a strong incentive in the last boom to buy new, no stamp duty and FTB grant of £3000, this encouraged people to move to areas they wouldn't have considered before, hello portlaoise , I'm talking to you.

It's just stupid but developers have a gun to their head and sure what else could the government do? This way they give money to the builders but get congrats from grateful FTB and their mammies and daddies.

bleary

bleary wrote: »

I can't imagine there will be any provision for buyers of second hand property, it might actually depress the prices there for a while.

They will attempt to justify it for new builds , meeting environmental goals and increasing supply.

I agree but they seem to be floating VAT reductions on new-builds and incentives for first-time buyers (of any property), based on my reading of this morning's paper.

If that's the case it would distort things in that second/third/fourth-time buyers would have an incentive to buy new houses but FTBs would have an incentive to buy anything.

That might encourage FTBs to focus on the second-hand housing market where there are fewer trader-uppers.

Hard to know exactly what that would do to the market(s). Seems like unnecessary meddling to me

MarkAnthony

I'm sorry I know this is going to be unpopular but this is exactly whats needed.

Renters are getting absolutely screwed, because LLs are getting absolutely screwed on tax. AT LAST some of that money is going to be going back to renters. Of course it will increase house prices; brilliant! It should push my apartment to a point I'd part with it. Someone gets a grant to buy it and gets out of the rental trap, I get out of being a LL and pay a few K off my mortgage.

Of course more supply is needed. There are things that need to be done to assist that but this idea isn't the worth thing that could have happened by a long shot. Now it should be strictly controlled, and limited to certain areas but it's a step in the right direction!

Villa05

karenalot wrote:

Im presuming it will be part of the vacant site levy coming into force in 2018?

It should be enforce now but was pushed out by government after pressure from vested interests.

The problems exist now the tax should have been enforced well before now

Also many proposed a site value tax instead of the property tax as a far more beneficial tax in efficient use of land

Lorcan Sirr of DIT was interviewed by Cormac Ó hEadhra on RTÉ Radio 1's Drivetime in the past hour. He made two very interesting points: first, that this proposal is designed to circumvent Central Bank rules which, he argues, are for the long-term good of Irish society (as somebody who intends to buy in the foreseeable future I 100% agree with him).

Second, and more interesting, when Ó hEadhra asked him was the main problem a supply problem. He said it's about a 60/40 split between shortage of supply (c. 60% of the problem) and obsolete buildings/"managing that stock that we have" (c. 40% of the problem) that are no long in use as home. Sirr, in the inverview below, says "For every 100 houses we are building another 63 are becoming obsolete". I never thought that the latter figure would be anything as high as he says it is.

Have a listen to it all here: Lorcan Sirr (DIT) & Hubert Fitzpatrick (CIF)

yqtwqxqm

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm sorry I know this is going to be unpopular but this is exactly whats needed.

Renters are getting absolutely screwed, because LLs are getting absolutely screwed on tax. AT LAST some of that money is going to be going back to renters. Of course it will increase house prices; brilliant! It should push my apartment to a point I'd part with it. Someone gets a grant to buy it and gets out of the rental trap, I get out of being a LL and pay a few K off my mortgage.

Of course more supply is needed. There are things that need to be done to assist that but this idea isn't the worth thing that could have happened by a long shot. Now it should be strictly controlled, and limited to certain areas but it's a step in the right direction!

Last time we had a firt time buyers grant it only applied to new properties. Couldnt be got by a ftb buying a second hand house.
Its for the builders pockets, nobody elses.

MarkAnthony

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

Last time we had a firt time buyers grant it only applied to new properties. Couldnt be got by a ftb buying a second hand house.
Its for the builders pockets, nobody elses.

I don't know if that's the case here. If it is it would be a real shame as this should be used to bring on areas that have seen more FTBs move into areas regenerating them.

yqtwqxqm

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I don't know if that's the case here. If it is it would be a real shame as this should be used to bring on areas that have seen more FTBs move into areas regenerating them.

Ill bet my last cent that it will be only for new houses.
Its designed to increase the price of houses, but to look like its helping out the FTB.
Smoke and mirrors.
Been done before.

newacc2015

Deleted User wrote: »

Second, and more interesting, when Ó hEadhra asked him was the main problem a supply problem. He said it's about a 60/40 split between shortage of supply (c. 60% of the problem) and obsolete buildings/"managing that stock that we have" (c. 40% of the problem) that are no long in use as home. Sirr, in the inverview below, says "For every 100 houses we are building another 63 are becoming obsolete". I never thought that the latter figure would be anything as high as he says it is.

I assume that most of those 63 old houses becoming obsolete are glorified cottages, that rural dwellers are leaving to move into McMansions. If you built 100 new houses in Dublin, I seriously doubt no other houses would becoming obsolete. Why would they? Look around the North Stand Road in Dublin and there are people living in tiny houses.

I imagine this was your typical not much better than a tabloid interview that RTE loves to do. I cant find the interview, but I imagine RTE didnt ask what percentage of houses in Dublin are now obsolete and would become obsolete by building a hundred houses.

ted1

dubrov wrote: »

There are plenty of threads on boards about self-builds of large detached houses for less than 200k.
Builders could easily build low cost FTB houses at a profit now if the land price was fair.

Large detached houses, on land that is already owned.

A fair price for land is what people are willing to pay for it.
A tax on land that is rezoned is needed.

ted1

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

Ill bet my last cent that it will be only for new houses.
Its designed to increase the price of houses, but to look like its helping out the FTB.
Smoke and mirrors.
Been done before.

No VAT on an old house .so anything giving would have to come out if our pocket , and there's already tax relief on extensions

Eric Cartman

the central bank rules need to stay, and be held rigidly.

people in negative equity need to realise they are staying there, and stop this nonsense of holding on to a property because they're going to lose money.

planning rules for one off houses and protected structures need to be relaxed.

this grand is a bad idea.

quadrifoglio verde

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

Ill bet my last cent that it will be only for new houses.
Its designed to increase the price of houses, but to look like its helping out the FTB.
Smoke and mirrors.
Been done before.

I can see it being for new builds as well.
For every new build sold, the local authority gets a nice brown envelope dressed up as development levies. So white envelopes

That's all it is, a payment by the developer to the council for building much needed houses.
The builder then sells said house to the first time buyer and claws back his "white envelope" development levy plus his own margin on said bribe.
Ftb is incentivised to buy the new build by the government and most likely hands back the incentive plus some to the council

Karl deeter had an excellent piece on it a few weeks ago, development levies at the moment are astronomical

Wesser

I would like to ask... How much do people think this incentive will be worth?

Will I be like ..... A refund of your stamp duty so like 2 or 3 k?

Or will it be a massive amount of money like 30 k or something?

Coz I'm so far from having the budget that I need to buy what I want, 2 or 3 k is not the issue.......

So how much do people think it will be worth?

Hazydays123

Wesser wrote: »

I would like to ask... How much do people think this incentive will be worth?

Will I be like ..... A refund of your stamp duty so like 2 or 3 k?

Or will it be a massive amount of money like 30 k or something?

Coz I'm so far from having the budget that I need to buy what I want, 2 or 3 k is not the issue.......

So how much do people think it will be worth?

They said in the UK version, which it's based on, it's worth up to 3k.