Pay too low

vector

I got invited to the aptitude test in Dublin (to repeat the online test), but I don't think I can do it

It would involve taking a day off work (my current full time job, where I earn 35k)

I don't think I can survive on 22k?

Is low pay putting anyone else off proceeding?
any advice?

Avatar MIA

It is very low, but they will still be well over subscribed.

Dubwat

A recent report in the Sunday Times says the pay is comparable to other European forces!

I've no interest in being a Garda but I think it's far too low for the job they do.


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/garda-pay-on-par-with-police-across-europe-kvd5p8sw3 (paywalled)

Pay levels for gardai are in line with the rest of Europe, despite recent cuts to wages and rent allowance, a Sunday Times survey has found.

First-year garda officers can now expect a gross salary of €23,171, down from the 2008 starting salary of €25,750.

In England, the basic salary for a police officer is £19,578, which amounts to €23,400 following sterling’s post-Brexit drop. Met officers are also given London weighting of £2,349 and a London allowance of £1,011. Annual increments raise UK police pay over £30,000 after about five years’ service.

El Hombre

It would be something if you were living in Limerick, Galway, Cork or rurally but I don't know how the poor feckers survive in Dublin with rent prices

nhunter100

vector wrote:

Is low pay putting anyone else off proceeding? any advice?

My son starts in September in Templemore. He was fully aware of the pay. Low to start with, but rises.

Giacomo McGubbin

If you don't pay the police a decent wage they can raise a family on, when they are a bit older and less wet behind the ears, they will find a way of paying themselves.

nhunter100

Giacomo McGubbin wrote:

If you don't pay the police a decent wage they can raise a family on, when they are a bit older and less wet behind the ears, they will find a way of paying themselves.

We pay our politicians very well, didn't stop corruption.

bonyn

Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »

If you don't pay the police a decent wage they can raise a family on, when they are a bit older and less wet behind the ears, they will find a way of paying themselves.

I cringe when I hear arguments like this. Sounds like a protection racket. Pay us protection or we'll find a way to pay ourselves. Scummy attitude.

ted1

After 5 years what does it rise too?

It is a very low starting wage.

AudiKid

vector wrote: »

I got invited to the aptitude test in Dublin (to repeat the online test), but I don't think I can do it

It would involve taking a day off work (my current full time job, where I earn 35k)

I don't think I can survive on 22k?

Is low pay putting anyone else off proceeding?
any advice?

Well initially its not even 22k, its €184 a week for nine months during the initial training, and it is €23,141 when you are attested.

You don't have to decide now to take the job, there are plenty of stages where you can pass or fail.

Did you not check the wages before you applied?

Best of luck with the aptitude test (if you do it)

RedmondHR

You might as well do then. Even if you pass everything with flying colours you can still decline it.
If you made the decision to apply on the first place you either would like to join or your not a big fan of your current job.
Never bad to have options.

Elliot192

In fairness it's probably closer to 26,000 if you take the roster of 6 days on 4 days off and the various start times. Map it out over 52 weeks, account for 34 days annual leave, and work out the allowances. Still not a lot but not as grim as 23,171. [I'm open to correction btw]. That's not including the additional court days that might crop up on your days off. I know the weekly rate could be soul destroying when you've worked 60 hours for it and possibly been in a life threatening situation or taken a punch to the face or dogs abuse. But I'm hoping job satisfaction and the monthly allowances will even things out. Think it's the increment freeze, no rent allowance, all the schemes/insurances you have to pay into etc that would make you sit and think.

All that said, I firmly believe we will see an improvement in pay for new gardai, teachers and nurses sometime within the next couple of years, and there is nothing I would rather do with my life. Hang in there lads! Go for the assessments/interviews etc. Be in a position to make an informed decision. It could be a year or two before you get the call to Templemore and who knows what changes there'll be by then!

ForeverYoung90

Elliot192 wrote: »

In fairness it's probably closer to 26,000 if you take the roster of 6 days on 4 days off and the various start times. Map it out over 52 weeks, account for 34 days annual leave, and work out the allowances. Still not a lot but not as grim as 23,171. [I'm open to correction btw]. That's not including the additional court days that might crop up on your days off. I know the weekly rate could be soul destroying when you've worked 60 hours for it and possibly been in a life threatening situation or taken a punch to the face or dogs abuse. But I'm hoping job satisfaction and the monthly allowances will even things out. Think it's the increment freeze, no rent allowance, all the schemes/insurances you have to pay into etc that would make you sit and think.

All that said, I firmly believe we will see an improvement in pay for new gardai, teachers and nurses sometime within the next couple of years, and there is nothing I would rather do with my life. Hang in there lads! Go for the assessments/interviews etc. Be in a position to make an informed decision. It could be a year or two before you get the call to Templemore and who knows what changes there'll be by then!

Im in the current recruitment process myself.I agree the pay starts low but after seven years you'll be on 40,000e salary which is decent imo.

Id hope its very rare that you get punched in the face, and not a weekly occurance
May I ask what gives you the most satisfaction in the job?

Elliot192

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

Im in the current recruitment process myself.I agree the pay starts low but after seven years you'll be on 40,000e salary which is decent imo.

Id hope its very rare that you get punched in the face, and not a weekly occurance
May I ask what gives you the most satisfaction in the job?

I'm still in the recruitment process myself! Was just speculating. I sat and did my sums when I applied to try and figure out what I'd be coming out with.

Don't think a punch to the face would be all that regular. But there have been a lot of attacks on Gardaí reported in the papers recently. The FOI section of the Garda website makes for an interesting read, too.

Think the two-tier pay structure and pay freeze for new Gardaí is just cruel. They are already down thousands in comparison to their 2008/9 colleagues. This system hurts now AND when it comes time to draw down a pension.

At least the increment freeze will be over by the time we're due to get it.

Giacomo McGubbin

bonyn wrote: »

I cringe when I hear arguments like this. Sounds like a protection racket. Pay us protection or we'll find a way to pay ourselves. Scummy attitude.

Cringe all you like, it's a proven reality in any police force.

Gnr_Iver

It's a good job at the end of the day lads. An honest day's work for an honest day's pay. If you want to throw your integrity out the window then there is obvious money to be made.

Doesn't float my boat though, I'd rather be paid for the work i do. Just my two cense on the matter.

nhunter100

Giacomo McGubbin wrote:

Cringe all you like, it's a proven reality in any police force.

Another reality is if the pay is too low seek a different job. It's not as if wage rates are not published.

MondeoMan92

It's like most careers. The pay starts off pretty crap but after a few years its good and a few more it's pretty decent. The first few years will be tough but you'll be pretty comfortable when you've a few years under your belt

VicMack

It will improve lads. Rent allowance will come back and the increments will be restored and they may raise the starting salary eventually. The only way to look at it is to be optimistic.

RedmondHR

VicMack wrote: »

It will improve lads. Rent allowance will come back and the increments will be restored and they may raise the starting salary eventually. The only way to look at it is to be optimistic.

Sure it can't get any worse ! Only way is up

Giacomo McGubbin

nhunter100 wrote: »

Another reality is if the pay is too low seek a different job. It's not as if wage rates are not published.

Exactly. You get what you pay for.

sdanseo

Garda pay is far too low for the work involved. Add to that the fact that civil service pay rises quite slowly and they pay more PRSI, and may well end up being entitled to less state benefit should they leave before a pension scheme matures. Yes, the pension is the clear benefit but that's only of use after you've retired.

Garda pay tops out in the region of €45k after 17 odd years. Not a huge amount for two decades of being treated like a human punchbag.

nhunter100

sdanseo wrote:

Garda pay is far too low for the work involved. Add to that the fact that civil service pay rises quite slowly and they pay more PRSI, and may well end up being entitled to less state benefit should they leave before a pension scheme matures. Yes, the pension is the clear benefit but that's only of use after you've retired.

sdanseo wrote:

Garda pay tops out in the region of €45k after 17 odd years. Not a huge amount for two decades of being treated like a human punchbag.

No one is forced to join the guards, last campaign attracted nearly 20,000 applicants. So it's safe to assume there will be no shortage of recruits regardless of the pay structure.

nhunter100

Giacomo McGubbin wrote:

Exactly. You get what you pay for.

You're tarring the present potential recruits with a very large brush tbh.

ForeverYoung90

I've heard that you can add about 5000e to your basic salary allowing for overtime and allowances.

24000 basic + 5000e = 29000e

42000 basic + 5000e = 47000e

You retire with a good pension after 30 years and and if the tax free rent allowance is reinstated then it's not a bad package atall.

MondeoMan92

All of this is only basic pay aswel. Factor in the increments after a few years. Promotion to sergeant level and above. Joining specialist units(traffic,public order, SDU etc.) Allowances for uniform. Possible rent allowance being reinstated. Overtime, nightime pay, working public holidays. Yes the first few years will be tough but think of the bigger picture. How many careers are you guarenteed a pay increase every few years even without promotion? I wont make the mistake that people did during the boom years and rely on overtime to pay my bills but its going to be nicw to have a bit extra anytime I get it

The_Honeybadger

I must say the GRA are doing a good job lately in highlighting this issue for their members. I seem to keep coming across it in the media and it always focuses on the basic salary rather than take home (thus excluding allowances).

I don't agree with the two tier system, and the starting wage (outside of allowances) is low but the overall package including pension is good compared to other jobs. Not as good as it was, but still good. Some of the recent cuts will very likely be reversed as time goes on too and pressure mounts. GRA and its members should stick to their guns and be prepared for a long battle on it.

It's like any other job really, the starting salary is small but as you gain experience it goes up quickly (I know there is a controversial freeze at the minute). There will also surely be opportunities for promotions for those that work for them.

I can understand why it's not an attractive proposition for somebody in their 30s in the private sector who is already on a good wage. I think the job might suit somebody younger without family who has time on their side to get the years under their belt and increased salary before things like family and mortgages come along. Either way the terms and conditions are there for all to see prior to joining and it's a personal decision whether to take it or not if offered.

I don't think these vocations like policing, nursing and teaching will ever be the same again really. The current generation of retirees really don't know how lucky they are compared to new entrants.

Avatar MIA

mickeyk wrote: »

GRA and its members should stick to their guns

Aren't the GRA against this

AudiKid

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/garda-pay-350-weekly-2890314-Jul2016/

I read this on Sunday night. Its a good article for people who are questioning whether or not to join because of the pay.

Gnr_Iver

That was a very good article. It does really highlight how the little lad is treated by the brass and government. I really do hope things change as it's beyond a joke to treat the national policing service like this.

I don't know how a government, which relies on the AGS to uphold law and order can treat its members this way.

It's beyond me

Giacomo McGubbin

Gnr_Iver wrote: »

That was a very good article. It does really highlight how the little lad is treated by the brass and government. I really do hope things change as it's beyond a joke to treat the national policing service like this.

I don't know how a government, which relies on the AGS to uphold law and order can treat its members this way.

It's beyond me

Get used to it, you don't know the half of it yet.

Heart Break Kid

Originally I thought it was too low myself... but if Im correct its 23.1k for 3 years due to fempi of course this excludes templemore.

Are you then bumped to point 3 on the salary scale? Or do you work your way through each increment?

Hold a degree which bumps me an extra 3 increments which makes it alright after 3 years but Fempi gets in the way a bit. Difference of 10k or so.

Sierra Oscar

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Originally I thought it was too low myself... but if Im correct its 23.1k for 3 years due to fempi of course this excludes templemore.

Are you then bumped to point 3 on the salary scale? Or do you work your way through each increment?

Hold a degree which bumps me an extra 3 increments which makes it alright after 3 years but Fempi gets in the way a bit. Difference of 10k or so.

The Haddington Road Agreement / FEMPI dispute means that the increments are frozen, they are not earned over the three years. So when the freeze ends you don't get bumped up 3 points, you start off from where you left.

If you've a degree you should get the 3 additional increments once the freeze is lifted.

Lord Nikon

How many years would it take you to achieve 35k in the Gardai? Then ask what your yearly income would be after that many years in the private sector?

Sierra Oscar

Some good news for teachers today - Newly-qualified teachers will now start on €31,800 a year

Hopefully the pay for new entrants to the Gardai will be sorted sooner rather than later.

I'd say the fact that the GRA have not signed up to the Landsdowne Road Agreement is a major sticking point given this:

However, only those in the TUI and INTO unions will be eligible to receive the new pay scale because the ASTI has not yet signed up to the Lansdowne Road Agreement.

Gnr_Iver

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Some good news for teachers today - Newly-qualified teachers will now start on €31,800 a year

Hopefully the pay for new entrants to the Gardai will be sorted sooner rather than later.

I'd say the fact that the GRA have not signed up to the Landsdowne Road Agreement is a major sticking point given this:

Yea hopefully they will sort out Garda pay next. In fairness it should have been sorted first considering the line of work they do. The government needs to get their priorities in order or they will have bigger problems on their hands if the GRA goes ahead with industrial action.

Exciting times ahead

ForeverYoung90

Gnr_Iver wrote: »

Yea hopefully they will sort out Garda pay next. In fairness it should have been sorted first considering the line of work they do. The government needs to get their priorities in order or they will have bigger problems on their hands if the GRA goes ahead with industrial action.

Exciting times ahead

If just the rent allowance was brought back would make a huge difference.

Vamp369

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

If just the rent allowance was brought back would make a huge difference.

BREAKING NEWS: Rent allowance in line to be restored as GRA and Justice reach pay deal. More to follow, fingers crossed.

Link: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/garda-strikes-averted-as-pay-deal-is-agreed-35076307.html

Canyon86

Vamp369 wrote: »

BREAKING NEWS: Rent allowance in line to be restored as GRA and Justice reach pay deal. More to follow, fingers crossed.

Link: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/garda-strikes-averted-as-pay-deal-is-agreed-35076307.html

Good news!!

LaGlisse

Canyon86 wrote: »

Good news!!

Maybe they should look at not forcing people into undergoing invasive and expensive surgery on their eyes that can have serious consequences when it goes wrong. Been wearing contacts for years without any issues and can't figure out what the problem would be with wearing them as a Garda aside from some extreme legal ass covering

DooraGirl

LaGlisse wrote: »

Maybe they should look at not forcing people into undergoing invasive and expensive surgery on their eyes that can have serious consequences when it goes wrong. Been wearing contacts for years without any issues and can't figure out what the problem would be with wearing them as a Garda aside from some extreme legal ass covering

Can you not wear contacts???? 😥

misslemon

There's talk of unfreezing increments in the Journal this morning, as well as reinstating rent allowance.

They left it close to the wire, eh? The result of the GRA membership ballot for strike action is out tomorrow.

http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-drivers-and-gardai-talking-about-pay-2996076-Sep2016/

Vamp369

misslemon wrote: »

They left it close to the wire, eh? The result of the GRA membership ballot for strike action is out tomorrow.

IMO The ballot is likely to give a strike result. Government couldn't risk that along with Dublin Bus strikes and the potential Irish Rail strike. It would be a disaster for them.

jimmythedivil

LaGlisse wrote: »

Maybe they should look at not forcing people into undergoing invasive and expensive surgery on their eyes that can have serious consequences when it goes wrong. Been wearing contacts for years without any issues and can't figure out what the problem would be with wearing them as a Garda aside from some extreme legal ass covering

Can't understand this either. I wear all day, all night corrective lenses and my vision is as good as perfect with them in. My vision is fairly bad with out them so I wouldn't trust optilase with them, I'd have to pay about seven grand to get them done.

joeeeyyy

People who are applying for money should go somewhere else! Anyone considering joining for the money honestly? You've people who dream of getting into the Garda to help people to make a difference, be a positive role model! Money should not be a factor. You guys are potentially taking a spot of a man or woman who'd love the job regardless of pay!

Canyon86

joeeeyyy wrote: »

People who are applying for money should go somewhere else! Anyone considering joining for the money honestly? You've people who dream of getting into the Garda to help people to make a difference, be a positive role model! Money should not be a factor. You guys are potentially taking a spot of a man or woman who'd love the job regardless of pay!

I'm certainly not applyin for the money, I'm making considerably more in my current role but my current is boring and not challenging that's why I'm applying in this campaign

I do however have a worry about how low the wages are at the moment, I don't know how I'd survive on 350 a week paying rent and running a car and other expenses
The current recruit salary is not a liveable wage in my opinion

FWIW

I don't think many if any are applying for the money it's so bad

Sierra Oscar

joeeeyyy wrote: »

People who are applying for money should go somewhere else! Anyone considering joining for the money honestly? You've people who dream of getting into the Garda to help people to make a difference, be a positive role model! Money should not be a factor. You guys are potentially taking a spot of a man or woman who'd love the job regardless of pay!

It's much better for people to be weighing up their options now rather than joining up blindly and realising once they pass out that their pay packet can't support their family and pay the mortgage.