Credit Card company accepting payment to fraudulent Business

pfenn1 · 19-07-2016 10:32am #1

i recently decided to participate in Binary trading with an operation which, too late in the day ,i believe is, according to a Watchdog body a fraud. I consented to the transfer of money from my credit and debit cards to the Binary operator. Does the card company have some or any responsibility for this fraud? Is it not a form of money laundering facilitated in some way by the Credit Card company?
Barking mad!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 19-07-2016 11:13am

Card company carried out your instructions. How are they party to the fraud? They're not.

Xterminator · 19-07-2016 11:22am

I consented to the transfer of money from my credit and debit cards to the Binary operator.

Do you think you have no responsibility? you signed up for something and credit card company followed your instructions. now if YOU have been defrauded you can call the credit card company and initiate a chargeback.

i would comment to say you have a responsibility to be careful with your money, thats your job. i was taken aback by the attitude you display in your post.

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

read then follow steps outlined.

Regards

X

Nonoperational · 19-07-2016 7:13pm

Signed up to try and make quick money based on a flash ad. Lost money. Now want someone else to pick up the tab. Not how it works unfortunately.

pfenn1 · 20-07-2016 10:36am

Danielle Creamy Acid wrote: »

Card company carried out your instructions. How are they party to the fraud? They're not.

Thanks for blunt and to the point reply- no moralising.

coylemj · 20-07-2016 11:15am

pfenn1 wrote: »

Thanks for blunt and to the point reply- no moralising.

You started the 'moralising' when you asked if the credit card company had any responsibility for the fraud.

Attempting to lay the blame on your credit card company is moralising big time on your part - you need take responsibility for your own actions. A credit card company facilitates the transfer of money from A to B, it's not their role to act as some kind of a financial version of Interpol.

Caveat Emptor.

2RockMountain · 20-07-2016 12:17pm

A tad harsh responses on the OP, no?

If the trading company is indeed fraudulent, then the CC company DOES have a responsibility not to be facilitating this fraud. If (on the other hand), he lost money because his trades went wrong, it is his problem.

Which is it, OP?

davo10 · 20-07-2016 1:26pm

2RockMountain wrote: »

A tad harsh responses on the OP, no?

If the trading company is indeed fraudulent, then the CC company DOES have a responsibility not to be facilitating this fraud. If (on the other hand), he lost money because his trades went wrong, it is his problem.

Which is it, OP?

Is it the CC's responcibility to check if the vendor/service provider is fraudulent in every transaction? Surely that is the consumer's responcibility? Google is your friend.

2RockMountain · 20-07-2016 3:07pm

davo10 wrote: »

Is it the CC's responcibility to check if the vendor/service provider is fraudulent in every transaction?

Pretty much, yes. Are you OK with CC companies providing merchant services to criminals and conmen?

davo10 · 20-07-2016 3:39pm

2RockMountain wrote: »

Pretty much, yes. Are you OK with CC companies providing merchant services to criminals and conmen?

Nope, but I do my best to try not to buy anything from criminals and conmen and I don't blame the card company if I do. They are there to facilitate the payment for transfer of goods and services, they are not there to stop us buying from people we shouldn't.

BrokenArrows · 20-07-2016 3:43pm

Although you have to believe that if a credit card provider has allowed a company to take credit card payments they must perform some sort of security and fraud checks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 20-07-2016 4:10pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Although you have to believe that if a credit card provider has allowed a company to take credit card payments they must perform some sort of security and fraud checks.

Not if the card holder clearly told them to make the payments. Fraud would be taking unauthorised payments

2RockMountain · 20-07-2016 5:12pm

Danielle Creamy Acid wrote: »

Not if the card holder clearly told them to make the payments. Fraud would be taking unauthorised payments

The cardholder authorising the payment does not preclude fraud on the part of the merchant.

GerardKeating · 20-07-2016 5:41pm

2RockMountain wrote: »

Pretty much, yes. Are you OK with CC companies providing merchant services to criminals and conmen?

If the Merchant and/or transaction is fraudulent, they you should be able to get a chargeback, but not all Binary trading is fraud.

Have you discussed this with your Card provider?

coylemj · 20-07-2016 6:03pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Although you have to believe that if a credit card provider has allowed a company to take credit card payments they must perform some sort of security and fraud checks.

If they did, then providing a service to transmit money to merchants could be perceived as carrying an implied warranty as to the legitimacy and honesty of those business which would have serious legal implications.

BTW, credit card companies themselves don't directly deal with merchants, that's done by payment processing companies. In Ireland that means companies like RealEx, Elavon etc., they are the people who sign up merchants and set them up with the equipment required to take payments with credit cards.

2RockMountain · 21-07-2016 10:41am

GerardKeating wrote: »

If the Merchant and/or transaction is fraudulent, they you should be able to get a chargeback, but not all Binary trading is fraud.

That's pretty much what I said earlier.

If the trading company is indeed fraudulent, then the CC company DOES have a responsibility not to be facilitating this fraud. If (on the other hand), he lost money because his trades went wrong, it is his problem.

pfenn1 · 06-09-2016 5:59am

2RockMountain wrote: »

That's pretty much what I said earlier.

The 'loss' is not due to bad trades. in fact my account with the trader stands at a positive of €12,000.00 but i can't get a cent from them.The following is the reply i received when i recently requested payment of €5000.00:

''In order to make a withdrawal from your account, you must do the following:

1. Log in into your account and access "My account";
2. On the left side of the screen, you will find the "Withdrawal" option;
3. Fill the form and press send.

Your withdrawal request will be examined by our financial department in 5-7 business days.

Once your WD request has been submitted, it takes 7 to 10 business days for the financial department to process it. If your WD request is approved and your account is fully verified, please consider an additional 10-14 days for the money to be back in your account or more, because of regulatory politics of the banks, local and international laws, events during that period, local and international holidays, bank maintenance and other causes, not mentioned in this list.

If you have any questions or need further information, please contact our support department via Live Chat or Email''.

Would that type of reply suggest i'm dealing with a legitimate business?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-09-2016 9:21am

pfenn1 wrote: »

The 'loss' is not due to bad trades. in fact my account with the trader stands at a positive of €12,000.00 but i can't get a cent from them.The following is the reply i received when i recently requested payment of €5000.00:

''In order to make a withdrawal from your account, you must do the following:

1. Log in into your account and access "My account";
2. On the left side of the screen, you will find the "Withdrawal" option;
3. Fill the form and press send.

Your withdrawal request will be examined by our financial department in 5-7 business days.

Once your WD request has been submitted, it takes 7 to 10 business days for the financial department to process it. If your WD request is approved and your account is fully verified, please consider an additional 10-14 days for the money to be back in your account or more, because of regulatory politics of the banks, local and international laws, events during that period, local and international holidays, bank maintenance and other causes, not mentioned in this list.

If you have any questions or need further information, please contact our support department via Live Chat or Email''.

Would that type of reply suggest i'm dealing with a legitimate business?

There is absolutely nothing abnormal about that reply.

If you think the whole thing is suspect why the heck are you not seeking to withdraw all your funds?

You need to get out of this for the simple reason that you don't have a clue what you are doing and how things operate.

daheff · 07-09-2016 2:55pm

davo10 wrote: »

Is it the CC's responcibility to check if the vendor/service provider is fraudulent in every transaction? Surely that is the consumer's responcibility?

Yes- as a provider of financial services Credit Card companies (merchant acquirers in this case) have a legal responsibility to perform KYC (Know Your customer) & AML (Anti-money laundering) checks on any company/individual that they are providing services to. This is covered under the Criminal Justice Act 2014 (I believe!

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Although you have to believe that if a credit card provider has allowed a company to take credit card payments they must perform some sort of security and fraud checks.

CCprovider, once its happy that the KYC/AML checks are ok, facilitate transactions via card terminals /or via online programs. These are all fairly standardised and have a number of built in processes & controls.

However, like everything else, nothing is fool proof and criminals will always find a way around controls. that is why you can raise a chargeback if you believe you have been defrauded of money (eg paid money for a service you never received).

09-09-2016 7:21am

pfenn1 wrote: »

Once your WD request has been submitted, it takes 7 to 10 business days for the financial department to process it. If your WD request is approved and your account is fully verified, please consider an additional 10-14 days for the money to be back in your account or more, because of regulatory politics of the banks, local and international laws, events during that period, local and international holidays, bank maintenance and other causes, not mentioned in this list.

That response rings all the alarm bells, both because of what it says and how its written.
It is absolutely not normal.

In which jurisdiction are these traders located?

Glass fused light · 10-09-2016 10:56am

pfenn1 wrote: »

Your withdrawal request will be examined by our financial department in 5-7 business days.
Once your WD request has been submitted, it takes 7 to 10 business days for the financial department to process it. If your WD request is approved and your account is fully verified, please consider an additional 10-14 days for the money to be back in your account or more, because of regulatory politics of the banks, local and international laws, events during that period, local and international holidays, bank maintenance and other causes, not mentioned in this list

Deleted User wrote: »

That response rings all the alarm bells, both because of what it says and how its written.
It is absolutely not normal.

In which jurisdiction are these traders located?

Agree 1000% that how its written should ringing alarm bells, and if the rest of the site is like that I have to agree with Srameen.

If its a legitimate business, it's very badly written but normal imo, its basically saying we have a process to follow.
We get your withdrawal request and have a look at. That's day 0
If we have some rules you agreed to when you signed up eg on how you fill it in, that it can only be accepted the first week of any month etc ( could be an agreed rule that money is never repaid :eek: ), and we make sure they are followed and if everything is ok we move on.
We also go back and do KYA (cover your ass > (KYC &AML)). That's day 7 or day 17 (7+10) or day X (7+10+rule X)
NB if everything is ok we move on if not you are stuck on day 7 and we may or may not be able to tell you why.
If we move on we will pay out the money within 14 days but it's not our problem if someone else in the banking system is not giving it to you.

That's how I an reading it anyway.

Kings Inns or bust · 10-09-2016 1:56pm

I find it a bit odd that in the same forum where 'just charge it back' is a favourite (and not unwise) piece of advice that there is so much vitriol directed at someone who has, potentially, been done albeit due to their own naivety.

Interesting point of the legislation, I must delve more into that, but that aside the problem you'll have OP is the money is still there on paper. I would get in contact with your bank, you'll not get the profit but hopefully you'll have some luck getting some of the 'investment' back. If you want to do some trading may I suggest avatrade? They're based in Dublin and I've always had good service.

If you do manage to get your profits, don't be using some huckster accountant you find on a pop-up ad when your tax return is due! :pac:

10-09-2016 3:00pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

A

If its a legitimate business, it's very badly written but normal imo,....

Writing like that screams India or Nigeria to me.

That's one of the reasons it rings alarm bells for me, and why I ask what jurisdiction they are based in. Does anybody regulate them and if so, is their regulator solid?

Apart from that, talking about up to 14 days to transfer money is suspicious. These days you can transfer money anywhere in the world in 2 to 4 days and highlighting things like 'bank maintenance' for delays is unreal.

Glass fused light · 10-09-2016 6:11pm

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I find it a bit odd that in the same forum where 'just charge it back' is a favourite (and not unwise) piece of advice that there is so much vitriol directed at someone who has, potentially, been done albeit due to their own naivety.

Interesting point of the legislation, I must delve more into that, but that aside the problem you'll have OP is the money is still there on paper. I would get in contact with your bank, you'll not get the profit but hopefully you'll have some luck getting some of the 'investment' back. If you want to do some trading may I suggest avatrade? They're based in Dublin and I've always had good service.

If you do manage to get your profits, don't be using some huckster accountant you find on a pop-up ad when your tax return is due! :pac:

My understand of how this works is that when the transaction is fraud, it's like insurance. The credit card company refund the money from own funds, they can then under the bank/supplier agreement get their money back, similar to when the supplier goes bust and the card holder is covered.

If the company is running a fraud the bank/credit card co holds the money and reports ( Revenue and Garda), if fraud is proven, they hand the money over to who ever is sent in clean up (eg post investor court action) and any remaining money collected gets split between all the investors.

But I really don't know for sure.

Deleted User wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

[QUOTE Glass fused light A
If its a legitimate business, it's very badly written but normal imo,..../QUOTE]

Writing like that screams India or Nigeria to me.

Thats why i qualified it with If its a legitimate business (Pre-investment check)

That's one of the reasons it rings alarm bells for me, and why I ask what jurisdiction they are based in. Does anybody regulate them and if so, is their regulator solid?

Agree on the alarm bells, problem is that they could be EU based but not authorised. If the business is a front for fraud it unlikely to be regulated. Investors can do a pre-investment check on the Central Banks website ( just don't pick the firm on the unauthorised list:o )

Apart from that, talking about up to 14 days to transfer money is suspicious. These days you can transfer money anywhere in the world in 2 to 4 days

Suspicious, maybe, but unless the investment is held in cash the company has to sell the underlying security and get the money transferred into their account, for far-out-there holdings ( like binary trading?) the time scale may be acceptable.

and highlighting things like 'bank maintenance' for delays is unreal.

tell that to Ulster bank and Bank of Ireland. ;):pac:

As the items listed were outside the control of the company I was reading that as: we will pay out the money within 14 days but it's not our problem if someone else in the banking system is not giving it to you. ( so that another for the Pre-investment check list)

Credit Card company accepting payment to fraudulent Business

Comments