Management Companies why do they never want to sort out queries on fees ??

Angel2016

I have just gone sale agreed on a property, the fees outstanding are being paid from the proceeds of the sale and will paid till the end of 2016 with a portion being returned to me from the buyer which is standard practice, however I have an amount on my statement for € 499.69 going back to 2009 which I have questioned and have refused to pay as I moved into the property in Feb 2009 and in order to get the keys we had to pay 6 months in advance fees which was fine but the company who built the complex Liam Carroll's went to NAMA in the July of that same year and there was no management company in doing any work at all, no cleaning was done, no bins emptied and myself and two others actually were cleaning lift and vomit from the hallways because no one was there to do it so I refused to pay the fees for the remainder of the year as did others.

In 2010 a new company took over and then again in 2011 I requested each time that the fees be taken off my statement because no management company did any work for that period, they refused saying people were there cleaning and I asked for a copy of work sheets to show that people were on site and work was done which is standard for workers to do and again nothing I requested the query be dealt with in 2012, 2013, 2014 & 2015 I even said look credit 50% of the fee I will pay 50% just to get rid and they said no.
Now another management company has taken over and I am gone sale agreed I thought these were more efficient as they said to me dont worry we will sort it and said they were requesting files from the previous management company and would sort it before I sell and here we are sale agreed and nothing it really irritates me they just sit on their backside and do nothing.

I have told my solicitor not to pay the old fees and that I only want the current ones that I agree on to be paid but is there anything that can be done here or any ombudsman that I can get in touch with to get something sorted ??

Graham

If you don't pay the outstanding fees, expect the sale of the property to be delayed. I'm not saying that's necessarily right but it is what's likely to happen. The management company pretty much have you over a barrel.

What has your solicitor said? Have you asked him/her how much it will cost to fight the management company on the outstanding?

Angel2016

Graham wrote: »

If you don't pay the outstanding fees, expect the sale of the property to be delayed. I'm not saying that's necessarily right but it is what's likely to happen. The management company pretty much have you over a barrel.

What has your solicitor said? Have you asked him/her how much it will cost to fight the management company on the outstanding?

Yeah I understand the fees not being paid delays the sale but the new management company and the estate agent who works for the whole complex said it would be sorted not to worry on the fees that it would be taken off but the bloke that I contact about the fees is just ignoring my emails and calls I know that they know there was no work done in 2010 and I did ask for copy of work sheets plus offered to pay 50% with a previous company but the girl looking after the place in the last company was well useless and has since been moved from the department.

My solicitor said to query it with them see if I can get anywhere and that you can also leave the fee on the property but that is not fair to the new owners which I agree with its all very frustrating really.

jd

There was never a new "management company", the agent may have changed.

Angel2016

jd wrote: »

There was never a new "management company", the agent may have changed.

Yes well that is what I meant , the new agent is the owner of the whole complex they don't own our building but all the other apartments, shop units, hotel and restaurant units so they are the majority shareholders.

I got this response from them so its better the nothing:

Hi ********

We have been continuously following up on this query.

Unfortunately, no party has returned with an information which supports nor disproves the sums you have queried. Quite frankly, no party can recall or they have not returned with a response.

We therefore propose to meet halfway on this issue and split the sum of €499.69.

Regards,

pinkypinky

That's hard luck but the fact is you signed a lease agreeing to pay management fees and you owe this money, regardless of whether the work was done or not. I'd take this last agent's offer and pay half. Not worth having more arguments about it now.

Angel2016

pinkypinky wrote: »

That's hard luck but the fact is you signed a lease agreeing to pay management fees and you owe this money, regardless of whether the work was done or not. I'd take this last agent's offer and pay half. Not worth having more arguments about it now.

I am paying the 50% we have agreed on that but I don't owe this money because you are paying for a service on a complex and that service was not provided so therefore I technically dont owe this money its that simple but just to get shot of the place I will pay half.

You don't pay someone for something you don't receive or is provided no one would go to a restaurant order a meal not get it and say sure I will pay for it anyway.
It's sorted now and that is the main thing.

jd

What can happen is that if there are people not paying service charges is that certain things get paid first that aren't visible, eg Block Insurance, Electricity etc etc. You then may get people moaning about painting and gardening saying they don't want to pay service charges. If this kind of thing escalates the development can rapidly go downhill.

Some people mentioned at our AGM that the place was due to be painted. They were reminded that some of their neighbours owed substantial arrears in their service charges, so it wouldn't be happening this year.

So no discounts where I live.

Angel2016

jd wrote: »

What can happen is that if there are people not paying service charges is that certain things get paid first that aren't visible, eg Block Insurance, Electricity etc etc. You then may get people moaning about painting and gardening saying they don't want to pay service charges. If this kind of thing escalates the development can rapidly go downhill.

Some people mentioned at our AGM that the place was due to be painted. They were reminded that some of their neighbours owed substantial arrears in their service charges, so it wouldn't be happening this year.

So no discounts where I live.

Well now normally I would not look for a discount but the agent at the time that was the management company went bust and there was absolutely no work done and even all the previous management companies / agents in there could not provide work sheets to prove anyone was on site I dont normally not pay things but I felt this was one step too far because myself and others were out cleaning lifts and vomit from the hallways and we had to pay for the privilege of that lol....eh nope

The building across from us nobody has paid any fees we were told that straight out at one of the AGM's so it was vital that we all paid on time but their building and area were still looked after.
I think the new agent in their new has more of an invested interest in the place as it owns most of the complex bar our building they have set up a site for people to log in and make complaints, for queries or in general just to see whats going on with the area, me personally I am glad to be selling and getting rid of fees, and having to look after tenants etc..

Paulw

You seem to be confusing a few matters.

There is one management company - you are a member of it, as a unit owner. The management agent is appointed by the management company for the day to day running.

So, all unit owners are the management company. If people don't pay, then things won't be done. This, in no way at all, absolves you from paying the full fee due. This needs to be paid, before any sale is permitted to go through.

You can argue all you like, but you signed a contract that said you would pay the management fee.

It didn't say you would only pay if all work was done.

Bottom line - you must pay the fees or else the sale will not go through. What happens in other managed developments makes no difference.

irlrobins

Paulw wrote: »

Bottom line - you must pay the fees or else the sale will not go through. What happens in other managed developments makes no difference.

Spot on Paul. And as someone mentioned earlier, the common areas and lifts obviously had electricity, so there was 'work' being done by the Management Agent, or does OP think that comes for free...

Angel2016

Paulw wrote: »

You seem to be confusing a few matters.

There is one management company - you are a member of it, as a unit owner. The management agent is appointed by the management company for the day to day running.

So, all unit owners are the management company. If people don't pay, then things won't be done. This, in no way at all, absolves you from paying the full fee due. This needs to be paid, before any sale is permitted to go through.

You can argue all you like, but you signed a contract that said you would pay the management fee.

It didn't say you would only pay if all work was done.

Bottom line - you must pay the fees or else the sale will not go through. What happens in other managed developments makes no difference.

I have it sorted I got a 50% credit of 250.00 so will pay the the other half, I understand how management companies work and the agent and the people in the building are members of the management company but its a huge property developer who is now the main shareholder of the area and therefore his company is the ones employing people to do the work in the area I have owned the place since 2008 so understand perfectly how it all works.

I have paid my fees for all other years no problem BUT I refused to pay for work that was never done, you are paying into this account for everything to be done which includes cleaning, I would have paid the full fees did I not have to get out and clean lift, scoop up stinking puke, tidy bin rooms that were over flowing and also clean the floor my apartment was on.
Its that simple and I was right to stick to my guns, people in the apartment block across from us have not paid a cent yet their apartments and garden were kept clean so how is that okay, we were told by the previous agents that this building paid nothing and that because our 60 apartments were paying it was covering them too !

I have owned that place since 2008 and paid 6 months fees upfront when getting the keys and paid them every month since then so I don't not pay my fees, the same agent that couldn't provide me with work sheets for work that was supposedly done questioned me when I was getting married in 2012 as to how much was my wedding costing me and I wouldn't pay these fees of 499.69 so you can imagine that went down like a tone of bricks.
The agent now have since come back and said they spoke to the previous agent and that they agreed the work probably was never done and that everyone just buried it in the sand hoping it would go away he was very honest and I thanked him for that so now I will pay the 250.00 as they met me half way to getting it sorted.
I might ad I offered to pay 50% of the fee 4 years ago just to get the old amount and date off the statement and was told no and then they questioned me on my wedding costs as they heard I was getting married.

whippet

you need to get it out of your head that you were paying for work to be done. You are paying management fees as per your obligation. The Management company was paying the agents for carrying out the work (or lack of) .. so it is the Company who can refuse / reduce / argue with the agent about fees. However, as with most of these cases the reality is that not enough of the members pay their dues which in turn leads to service reduction, which causes more people to stop paying leading to a further reduction in services ... catch22

In the wind up, everyone will eventually end up paying when they go to sell the property and also had to endure years of a reduced service while still having to pay.

Angel2016

whippet wrote: »

you need to get it out of your head that you were paying for work to be done. You are paying management fees as per your obligation. The Management company was paying the agents for carrying out the work (or lack of) .. so it is the Company who can refuse / reduce / argue with the agent about fees. However, as with most of these cases the reality is that not enough of the members pay their dues which in turn leads to service reduction, which causes more people to stop paying leading to a further reduction in services ... catch22

In the wind up, everyone will eventually end up paying when they go to sell the property and also had to endure years of a reduced service while still having to pay.

I disagree my property is gone sale agreed we have sorted the problem by going 50 / 50 I have held up my obligation by paying fees for all other years and time periods right up to the end of 2016 even the agent agrees with me that no work was done in the 2nd half of 2009 and do I feel bad for getting a credit on my statement not at all when the other building across from me with 120 apartments has 30% paying their fees since they moved in also and my building being the only other one occupied have been paying while they still get services carried out so no it doesn't bother me.

jd

Angel2016 wrote: »

I disagree my property is gone sale agreed we have sorted the problem by going 50 / 50 I have held up my obligation by paying fees for all other years and time periods right up to the end of 2016 even the agent agrees with me that no work was done in the 2nd half of 2009 and do I feel bad for getting a credit on my statement not at all when the other building across from me with 120 apartments has 30% paying their fees since they moved in also and my building being the only other one occupied have been paying while they still get services carried out so no it doesn't bother me.

Jaysus that's a long sentence

I presume this is Tallaght Cross. It sounds like it's badly managed. What should really be done is all the service charges in arrears should be collected - including everyone from the "other building" - with no discounts for anyone.

Angel2016

jd wrote: »

Jaysus that's a long sentence

I presume this is Tallaght Cross. It sounds like it's badly managed. What should really be done is all the service charges in arrears should be collected - including everyone from the "other building" - with no discounts for anyone.

Yeah it's Tallaght Cross, Broadfield to be exact, Alexander is the other building its now managed really good it pains me to say previous crew were shocking even when we needed their help going to court with the restaurant that was there for all the noise they were shocking we got more help from the liquidators from the complex.
I have paid all my fees up to Dec 2016 so that the new owner of my apartment can start fresh in 2017.
I am happy with the outcome 50/50 it's sorted now.

andekwarhola

Buy property and sign contract agreeing to pay management fees.

Forget cat ate my homework stuff and pay contractually agreed fees.

Sell property.

Fin.

andekwarhola

whippet wrote: »

you need to get it out of your head that you were paying for work to be done. You are paying management fees as per your obligation. The Management company was paying the agents for carrying out the work (or lack of) .. so it is the Company who can refuse / reduce / argue with the agent about fees. However, as with most of these cases the reality is that not enough of the members pay their dues which in turn leads to service reduction, which causes more people to stop paying leading to a further reduction in services ... catch22

In the wind up, everyone will eventually end up paying when they go to sell the property and also had to endure years of a reduced service while still having to pay.

Given that possibly hundreds of thousands of people bought, often wildly expensive, MUD properties, the relatively simple concepts of management companies /agents to which they contractually agreed nonetheless seem to be as hard to grasp for many as quantum physics.

Angel2016

andekwarhola wrote: »

Buy property and sign contract agreeing to pay management fees.

Forget cat ate my homework stuff and pay contractually agreed fees.

Sell property.

Fin.

I have paid my fees up till Dec 2016, I have no problem with the fact I got a credit on the account neither do the agent looking after the place we are all in agreement on the situation so the issue is sorted.