Group of men in Dublin cause outrage by wearing blackface

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

In America or Australia? Apparently in Australia normal racist rules don't exist.

I'd say it's clear enough that word is a world wide racist term.

You can have words that mean very different things though and if Paki is not considered racist in some counties then it isn't. A lot of Irish people called Partick have their name shortened to packie (pronounced paki). I suppose that's racist too.

Paki being offensive is stupid anyway, it's just a shortened version of the name and the same method is used to shorten loads of counties names and yet it's not racist.

Sleeper12

Brayden Gorgeous Fingerprint wrote:

Paki being offensive is stupid anyway, it's just a shortened version of the name and the same method is used to shorten loads of counties names and yet it's not racist.

You feel its stupid and the term doesn't bother me but I'm white (pink). I think the ones that matter are the Pakistani and Asians. 50 years ago plenty in America felt n***er wasn't racist. Unfortunately there's still a few over there still think that way.

Special Circumstances

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Special needs would be a more suitable handle

What's your problem with special needs??????


Apart from that nasty element of your post, could you explain why asking someone (who repeatedly extols the benefits of the education they received on what is racist, and who is completely exasperated by people who cannot/will not say what IS racist.... ) whether a rather strange element of the original black face social media furore is racist or not? You seem to be, or at least you profess to be, the ideal candidate to answer questions on this.


I find your derogatory attitude to people with genuine special needs very very offensive by the way. No matter what country you say it in.

Sleeper12

Special Circumstances wrote:

Apart from that nasty element of your post, could you explain why asking someone (who repeatedly extols the benefits of the education they received on what is racist, and who is completely exasperated by people who cannot/will not say what IS racist.... ) whether a rather strange element of the original black face social media furore is racist or not? You seem to be, or at least you profess to be, the ideal candidate to answer questions on this.

Sorry about the remark. Having said that you know & I know that you were trolling & weren't asking a sensible question nor did you expect a sensible response. I am sorry for the remark

Special Circumstances

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Sorry about the remark. Having said that you know & I know that you were trolling & weren't asking a sensible question nor did you expect a sensible response. I am sorry for the remark

I absolutely did expect an answer. I find it bizarre that people will have an absolute fit about the blackface but will go to any lengths to avoid the lady's Fake Jews comment, what IS the deal with that?

Is there a hierarchy of bigotry? Is there a list somewhere us ignorant types who weren't drilled on it at school can consult? Apparently Fake Frenchperson is bang out of order by decree of our boards.ie moral and ethical overlords. Fake Jamaican obviously is worthy of biblical wailing and gnashing of teeth. But very very quiet on the Fake Jew thing. Why?

Sleeper12

Special Circumstances wrote:

Is there a hierarchy of bigotry? Is there a list somewhere us ignorant types who weren't drilled on it at school can consult? Apparently Fake Frenchperson is bang out of order by decree of our boards.ie moral and ethical overlords. Fake Jamaican obviously is worthy of biblical wailing and gnashing of teeth. But very very quiet on the Fake Jew thing. Why?

Special Circumstances wrote:

I absolutely did expect an answer. I find it bizarre that people will have an absolute fit about the blackface but will go to any lengths to avoid the lady's Fake Jews comment, what IS the deal with that?

Well first off I saw you as a troll because you continue to ask religious questions on a thread. Jews aren't a race. It is a religion.
That aside you asked my opinion so even though it's off topic here is my answer. There is no God. The bible is as true as a Harry potter novel. Religion has been the cause for most wars from the beginning of time to present day. All in the name of God,Allah or whatever. Israeli Jews are European Jews afaik. While they were treated horribly in Europe during the war and they had to live somewhere I don't believe that they have a legitimate claim on Israel. Real jews, fake Jews its irrelevant to me as I believe all the religions are false.
I respect everyone's right to believe in their own religion. I don't usually comment on religion but I was asked a question. If I offended anyone's religious beliefs I am truly sorry as it was not my intention.

jackofalltrades

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No I mean we Irish. I am making sweeping generalisations against the majority of Irish people but not all. Just read this thread. 95% of the posters wouldn't know racism if it hit them on the head

No, if you're talking about Irish people you're talking about all of them.

Special Circumstances

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well first off I saw you as a troll because you continue to ask religious questions on a thread. Jews aren't a race. It is a religion.
That aside you asked my opinion so even though it's off topic here is my answer. There is no God. The bible is as true as a Harry potter novel. Religion has been the cause for most wars from the beginning of time to present day. All in the name of God,Allah or whatever. Israeli Jews are European Jews afaik. While they were treated horribly in Europe during the war and they had to live somewhere I don't believe that they have a legitimate claim on Israel. Real jews, fake Jews its irrelevant to me as I believe all the religions are false.
I respect everyone's right to believe in their own religion. I don't usually comment on religion but I was asked a question. If I offended anyone's religious beliefs I am truly sorry as it was not my intention.

It's a thread about OUTRAGEOUS bigotry. Check the title. Not mild discomfort, a bad taste in the mouth, sense of guilt, slight revulsion.

OUTRAGE OUTRAGE OUTRAGE over the bigotry of blackface. Ditto the use of the term Paki, and derogatory preconceptions about travellers. Neither of whom are "races" or "religions". Even "Fake Frenchpersons" have been criticised. Yet there is a glaring anomaly here.

Why the evasiveness when it comes to the ladies "Fake Jews" comments?


If believing all religions are false can conveniently erase the existence of any religious bigotry, why can't believing humans are humans erase all racist/cultural/nationality prejudices? Why the need for the outrage at all?

Seems some people just want to be outraged, but only on behalf of certain groups. Seems very discriminatory!

Sleeper12

Special Circumstances wrote:

If believing all religions are false can conveniently erase the existence of any religious bigotry, why can't believing humans are humans erase all racist/cultural/nationality prejudices? Why the need for the outrage at all?

One day racism won't exist. We'll all be black or grey. But sadly humans will be humans. We'll find another way to pick on other groups of people. It makes insecure people feel better about themselves thinking they are better than another group of people. We'll always find something to fight over. Sadly

Sleeper12

jackofalltrades wrote:

No, if you're talking about Irish people you're talking about all of them.

Not you though.

Pro Hoc Vice

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

You a big poo head!

I got a infraction for this seriously ffs.

Sweetemotion

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

I got a infraction for this seriously ffs.

Not so funny now.

Sleeper12

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

I got a infraction for this seriously ffs.

I actually thought you were trying to lighten the mood. No potty mouths allowed here.

Hans Bricks

Zxclnic wrote: »

Is the above in bold true because you say so?

If I were a black person and saw people in 'blackface', Halloween or not, I wouldn't be best pleased.
Do you not understand that concept, or do you think that wearing 'blackface' or 'Nazi dress' is so important to our freedom of expression that it must be done despite what hurt it might cause to others.

You suggest that we stop indulging people with 'nothing of importance to be doing', well maybe we should stop indulging, unimaginative and insensitive wallies who are still labouring under the massive misapprehension that putting on 'blackface' or 'Nazi dress' and causing offence to some is completely harmless and 'a bit of a laugh'.
Grow up.

I couldnt give a monkeys about freedom of expression here. I'm speaking from socialising over the years around Halloween time. Nazi dress and tiger Woods, cool running's are popular outfits. I've never witnessed people take umbrage with another over silly outfits like the above or getting wound up over it on the street with another or in nightclubs etc.

And I'm suggesting we not indulge anyone, including attention seekers. Ignore the Jamaican bob sleigh team or officer Himmler if you encounter them on the street during the October bank holiday weekend should it wind you up so much. Chances are there's no ulterior motive other than simply dressing up for the occasion.

I'm a fully grown male thanks. I just don't see the practicality of worrying about *some* people's hypothetical offence over such trivial and silly outfits.

Zxclnic

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I couldnt give a monkeys about freedom of expression here. I'm speaking from socialising over the years around Halloween time. Nazi dress and tiger Woods, cool running's are popular outfits. I've never witnessed people take umbrage with another over silly outfits like the above or getting wound up over it on the street with another or in nightclubs etc.

And I'm suggesting we not indulge anyone, including attention seekers. Ignore the Jamaican bob sleigh team or officer Himmler if you encounter them on the street during the October bank holiday weekend should it wind you up so much. Chances are there's no ulterior motive other than simply dressing up for the occasion.

I'm a fully grown male thanks. I just don't see the practicality of worrying about *some* people's hypothetical offence over such trivial and silly outfits.

Yes, I think you've established that you don't care if people take offence about what you regard as trivial but what others might regard as hurtful. It's a risk that you'll support others in taking, after all Halloween wouldn't be Halloween if some berk didn't feel free to don jackboots and a swastika armband while his dimwitted buddy 'blacked up' for the winter festival, all in the name of 'having the craic' eh.
Enjoy!

Wigglepuppy

Dressing up as a nazi officer - I really don't understand that. Just seems like attention-seeking - trying to be outrageous, there doesn't seem anything interesting about it.

But blackfacing in order to look more like a particular well known black person - in the way that wearing a blonde wig would be to look more like a well known blonde person... I just cannot understand why white folk want to find offence in that. A bit more understandable from black folk (but I still think they should take intent and context into consideration - and I'm sure plenty do - rather than leaping to assume the worst). It's the naysayers who are making the big deal about skin colour.

Special Circumstances

Zxclnic wrote: »

dimwitted buddy 'blacked up' for the winter festival, all in the name of 'having the craic' eh.
Enjoy!

Dutch hater!!!!

The_Valeyard

Zxclnic wrote: »

Yes, I think you've established that you don't care if people take offence about what you regard as trivial but what others might regard as hurtful. It's a risk that you'll support others in taking, after all Halloween wouldn't be Halloween if some berk didn't feel free to don jackboots and a swastika armband while his dimwitted buddy 'blacked up' for the winter festival, all in the name of 'having the craic' eh.
Enjoy!

Just as a matter of interest, would you have a problem with someone wearing a face mask of Obama also? Not using black face paint and suit, etc, but how about the mask?

Zxclnic

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

Dressing up as a nazi officer - I really don't understand that. Just seems like attention-seeking - trying to be outrageous, there doesn't seem anything interesting about it.

But blackfacing in order to look more like a particular well known black person - in the way that wearing a blonde wig would be to look more like a well known blonde person... I just cannot understand why white folk want to find offence in that. A bit more understandable from black folk (but I still think they should take intent and context into consideration - and I'm sure plenty do - rather than leaping to assume the worst).

You're right in saying that black people would be more likely to take offence at someone 'blacking up', similarly a Jewish person might be quicker than others to feel offended on seeing someone dressed as a Nazi officer, but it shouldn't prevent the majority of us non-black and/or non-Jewish from seeing the stupidity and sometimes downright malice in people wearing such provocative garb.
I'll give an example, it may not be directly analogous, but it's close enough.
If as a man I hear a woman being verbally abused and insulted for being 'female', should I not call foul, even though my own gender is not under fire?

Zxclnic

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, would you have a problem with someone wearing a face mask of Obama also? Not using black face paint and suit, etc, but how about the mask?

You're interested in my opinion now?

But no, I'll not play your childish 'What if' type of 14 year old trying to catch their parents out type scenarios.
Thanks, but save all that for the playground.

Wigglepuppy

Zxclnic wrote: »

You're right in saying that black people would be more likely to take offence at someone 'blacking up', similarly a Jewish person might be quicker than others to feel offended on seeing someone dressed as a Nazi officer, but it shouldn't prevent the majority of us non-black and/or non-Jewish from seeing the stupidity and sometimes downright malice in people wearing such provocative garb.
I'll give an example, it may not be directly analogous, but it's close enough.
If as a man I hear a woman being verbally abused and insulted for being 'female', should I not call foul, even though my own gender is not under fire?

You would just be defending a person being insulted. And maybe I was not clear in my last post but I agree dressing up as a nazi is just being provocative.

However, people often go to fancy dress parties as someone famous, maybe someone they admire. If a person dressed up as Mr. T. and blackfaced in order to look more like him, do you honestly think that is malice rather than just... wanting to look more like Mr. T?

Context and intent are really important - if a person dressed up as a lynched black person, that is being provocative, but it is a very different context to dressing up/blackfacing to look like someone.

Dyr

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

Dressing up as a nazi officer - I really don't understand that. Just seems like attention-seeking - trying to be outrageous, there doesn't seem anything interesting about it.

Are you kidding, those are some brilliant uniforms, all sleek and black with skulls and eagles on them :eek:


granted the brown ones are a bit naff.

Dyr

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

You would just be defending a person being insulted. And maybe I was not clear in my last post but I agree dressing up as a nazi is just being provocative.

However, people often go to fancy dress parties as someone famous, maybe someone they admire. If a person dressed up as Mr. T. and blackfaced in order to look more like him, do you honestly think that is malice rather than just... wanting to look more like Mr. T?

Context and intent are really important - if a person dressed up as a lynched black person, that is being provocative, but it is a very different context to dressing up/blackfacing to look like someone.

Actually if you wore a Mr T mask would that trigger the loonies?

Sweetemotion

Zxclnic wrote: »

Yes, I think you've established that you don't care if people take offence about what you regard as trivial but what others might regard as hurtful. It's a risk that you'll support others in taking, after all Halloween wouldn't be Halloween if some berk didn't feel free to don jackboots and a swastika armband while his dimwitted buddy 'blacked up' for the winter festival, all in the name of 'having the craic' eh.
Enjoy!

If I were black, I'd be insulted by someone like you, telling me what should offend me and what shouldn't.

Wigglepuppy

Sweetemotion wrote: »

If I were black, I'd be insulted by someone like you, telling me what should offend me and what shouldn't.

And also, isn't the aim NOT to be making a big deal over skin colour?

Sleeper12

But you are not black and yet seem VERY comfortable telling blacks what they shouldn't be offended by.
The logic here is baffling. 

Sweetemotion

Sleeper12 wrote: »

But you are not black and yet seem VERY comfortable telling blacks what they shouldn't be offended by.
The logic here is baffling. 

You are not black either, but feel comfortable telling them what is offence.

It's you seeing colour not me, yet I'm the racist?

Pro Hoc Vice

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I actually thought you were trying to lighten the mood. No potty mouths allowed here.

Poo seriously it ****ing after hours I can't say poo!

Pro Hoc Vice

Bambi wrote: »

Are you kidding, those are some brilliant uniforms, all sleek and black with skulls and eagles on them :eek:


granted the brown ones are a bit naff.

Hugo Boss darling!

Hans Bricks

Zxclnic wrote: »

Yes, I think you've established that you don't care if people take offence about what you regard as trivial but what others might regard as hurtful. It's a risk that you'll support others in taking, after all Halloween wouldn't be Halloween if some berk didn't feel free to don jackboots and a swastika armband while his dimwitted buddy 'blacked up' for the winter festival, all in the name of 'having the craic' eh.
Enjoy!

How do you measure or draw the line at potential offence ? Do you view men dressed in drag for a stag do as provocative toward transgender people ? You're going to see malice in the costume if you want to see it really. I'm completely indifferent to someone dressed in what you would regard as a sensitive outfit, unless it was blatantly racist/perpetuating a dehumanizing stereotype. And to be honest, disregarding the (open to interpretation) motive behind portraying a famous black person, if someone is outraged at a Nazi uniform costume they would want to reevaluate their life. I really don't think Fergal from Carlow is on the hunt for some elderly Hasidic jews to provoke on Camden street at 4am.