2016 TdF, Stage 17: Bern → Finhaut-Emosson (185km)

JK.BMC

RobFowl wrote: »

No, just dropped some of the best climbers in the world by burning them off his wheel.
Nothing to see here.

I see....
This is the guy who won LBL this year yeah? And dragged Froome up Alpes-dHuez in stage 20 last year. He is pretty good alright. And built like a string of spaghetti
Well at least he is nearly as good a domestique as GThomas was last year.

RobFowl

JK.BMC wrote: »

I see....
This is the guy who won LBL this year yeah? And dragged Froome up Alpes-dHuez in stage 20 last year. He is pretty good alright. And built like a string of spaghetti
Well at least he is nearly as good a domestique as GThomas was last year.

Yep the classics rider Poels who could stay with a bonked Froome last year

ednwireland

ThisRegard wrote: »

Thing was though, back during those dynasties I seem to remember the races as being exciting. The passing years may have made that so.

you remember indurain tours been exciting , dont rember that

RobFowl

ednwireland wrote: »

you remember indurain tours been exciting , dont rember that

God they were deathly boring

JK.BMC

RobFowl wrote: »

God they were deathly boring

Yes, the Big Mig tour wins were a bore fest if I remember correctly.

Fr D Maugire

JK.BMC wrote: »

Yes, the Big Mig tour wins were a bore fest if I remember correctly.

They were a bore as they were usually over before the mountains were even reached because of the TT dominance. There was the odd epic day though, Sestriere 92, Hautacam 94, Liege 95. One thing Indurain didn't have was a train that would still be there at the finish like SKY. He had Delgado who was a Tour winner and Jeff Bernard who was 3rd in 87 but they were never a train, more there on occasion on lower slopes of climbs. The likes of Chiappucci and Rominger would at least spice things up a bit.

Today SKY placed 3 riders in the first 10(not including break). That is not normal for riders who have been riding on the front for ages, though Astana did do a lot of work today. You would expect domestiques to drop off like the Astana guys did today.

I havent really followed much of this Tour or even any recent Tours, the SKY train have made it very, very boring to say the least. There is just more of a sense of vunerability when a rider is isolated, not with 5 team-mates present when the bunch is down to 15-20. Roll on the classics and cyclo-cross season.

terrydel

What a dull, boring tour this has been. Its actually hilarious now listening to the lad on eurosport trying to spin it otherwise.
Sky have virtually ruined this race as a spectacle. Apart from the early sprints and froome for once showing a bit of agression on a downhill, it is utterly forgettable. If a guy having a go on one descent is the high point of a tour, you know its bad.

xxyyzz

It's a pity Contador went out, no matter what he'd have made sky work for it.

dastardly00

This is Marcus Burghardt's (BMC) description of the stage today on Strava:
"....was definitely not the best idea today to stop 800m before the official start for pi** stop. Took me 15k to come back".

:pac:

CrowdedHouse

The Mullet broke his pelvis - rode 70 Km to the finish

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/bennetts-mate-archbold-rode-tour-summit-finish-with-fractured-pelvis/

68 lost souls

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

The Mullet broke his pelvis - rode 70 Km to the finish

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/bennetts-mate-archbold-rode-tour-summit-finish-with-fractured-pelvis/

Some set of cajones on him to finish. Speedy recovery to him.

Was just watching the GCN tour bus video with him,

he will be devastated not to finish the tour.

terrydel

dastardly00 wrote: »

This is Marcus Burghardt's (BMC) description of the stage today on Strava:
"....was definitely not the best idea today to stop 800m before the official start for pi** stop. Took me 15k to come back".

:pac:

Should have done a Froome and stopped the whole race.

JK.BMC

terrydel wrote: »

What a dull, boring tour this has been. Its actually hilarious now listening to the lad on eurosport trying to spin it otherwise.
Sky have virtually ruined this race as a spectacle. Apart from the early sprints and froome for once showing a bit of agression on a downhill, it is utterly forgettable. If a guy having a go on one descent is the high point of a tour, you know its bad.

I don't agree at all- however you do have a point about the high mountain stages which have been very predictable and dominated by SKY.

On the other hand, some of the racing on the flat and rolling stages has been brilliant. Remember just 7 days ago that stage in the crosswinds, probably the best 3 hours of full on racing this year; or Matthews' win the day before with the 7 man break that would do justice to a world championship finale; the excitement of some of the bunch sprints; the Sam Bennett saga; GVA's really top class effort to take yellow on a difficult terrain; the legendary antics of Peter Sagan; the obscene antics from lunatic fans, eg 'the Polish guy with the sign;' Carlton Kirby et al; chateaux porn and 'wine of the day;' and that is without mentioning anything about Mt Ventoux....

You are a tad hard to please methinks.

Dr. Bre

There hasn't been a good tour since 2011. That year Evans overtook schlreck in the penultimate stage. The giro and vuelta have been mor exciting ; reason being? Sky don't Send strong teams to those tours . Their shoestring budget buys le tour every year. The problem is more money at Sky to be a water carrier then lead an ag2r or Orica.. It's the equivalent of siting on the bench at Manu rather then getting your game for a Southampton but with less money

Fr D Maugire

JK.BMC wrote: »

I don't agree at all- however you do have a point about the high mountain stages which have been very predictable and dominated by SKY.

On the other hand, some of the racing on the flat and rolling stages has been brilliant. Remember just 7 days ago that stage in the crosswinds, probably the best 3 hours of full on racing this year; or Matthews' win the day before with the 7 man break that would do justice to a world championship finale; the excitement of some of the bunch sprints; the Sam Bennett saga; GVA's really top class effort to take yellow on a difficult terrain; the legendary antics of Peter Sagan; the obscene antics from lunatic fans, eg 'the Polish guy with the sign;' Carlton Kirby et al; chateaux porn and 'wine of the day;' and that is without mentioning anything about Mt Ventoux....

You are a tad hard to please methinks.

TBH, those kind of things or similar happen most Tours, after you see so many, they become run of the mill. There was a time when bunch sprints were not the norm either, lead out trains only really started with Cipollini in the 90s. I think it was the 89 Tour where there wasn't a full bunch sprint until well into the second week by which time, several sprinters had gone home. IIRC the Cipollini debut year 92 was also bunch sprint free, Cipo got fed up and went home in the first week throwing his toys out of the pram.

As for anyone listing Kirby as a highlight, Jesus wept:eek:

dastardly00

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

The Mullet broke his pelvis - rode 70 Km to the finish

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/bennetts-mate-archbold-rode-tour-summit-finish-with-fractured-pelvis/

Balls like a Bengali tiger :eek:

JK.BMC

Dr. Bre wrote: »

There hasn't been a good tour since 2011. That year Evans overtook schlreck in the penultimate stage. The giro and vuelta have been mor exciting ; reason being? Sky don't Send strong teams to those tours . Their shoestring budget buys le tour every year. The problem is more money at Sky to be a water carrier then lead an ag2r or Orica.. It's the equivalent of siting on the bench at Manu rather then getting your game for a Southampton but with less money

2011 was great to watch; back when guys like Pierre Rolland could win a stage without being mown down by the sky train. I really enjoyed seeing Cadel win too, and the way he did it

ThisRegard

ednwireland wrote: »

you remember indurain tours been exciting , dont rember that

The passing years as I said.

mhiggy09

On itv4 today Jens voigt was on commentating. He said team sky are paid to win races not make them exciting it doesn't matter to them if they're boring. Suppose I agree with him and it's the truth they're paid to win.

xxyyzz

I'd agree the giro is way more exciting. Let's be honest, people watch the tour to see the GC guys duking it out in the high mountains, everything else is just a side-show, this just doesn't happen anymore because all the guys who should be competing for it are domestiques for Sky. Last year's Giro was brilliant with a strong Astana team throwing everything at Contador and he managed to beat them single-handedly.

Brian?

mhiggy09 wrote: »

On itv4 today Jens voigt was on commentating. He said team sky are paid to win races not make them exciting it doesn't matter to them if they're boring. Suppose I agree with him and it's the truth they're paid to win.

I'm sick of people spouting this unoriginal thought. Yes Sky are there win and they'll do it by any legal means necessary. But that's no reasons for fans to enjoy it. I watch cycling for entertainment not to appreciate efficiency.

terrydel

JK.BMC wrote: »

I don't agree at all- however you do have a point about the high mountain stages which have been very predictable and dominated by SKY.

On the other hand, some of the racing on the flat and rolling stages has been brilliant. Remember just 7 days ago that stage in the crosswinds, probably the best 3 hours of full on racing this year; or Matthews' win the day before with the 7 man break that would do justice to a world championship finale; the excitement of some of the bunch sprints; the Sam Bennett saga; GVA's really top class effort to take yellow on a difficult terrain; the legendary antics of Peter Sagan; the obscene antics from lunatic fans, eg 'the Polish guy with the sign;' Carlton Kirby et al; chateaux porn and 'wine of the day;' and that is without mentioning anything about Mt Ventoux....

You are a tad hard to please methinks.

Legendary or legend - the most over and misused word in the English language these days.
The tour is predominantly about the race for yellow and the big mountains imho, and those two aspects have been massively predictable and dull.
I think you are very easily pleased.

Macy0161

xxyyzz wrote: »

I'd agree the giro is way more exciting. Let's be honest, people watch the tour to see the GC guys duking it out in the high mountains, everything else is just a side-show, this just doesn't happen anymore because all the guys who should be competing for it are domestiques for Sky. Last year's Giro was brilliant with a strong Astana team throwing everything at Contador and he managed to beat them single-handedly.

I'm not sure I blame Sky and the skybots completely. Part of the problem is how massive the Tour is - podium and even a top 10 is worth so much to teams and riders, they'll defend those places rather than go all in for the win.

That's why Contador is such a big loss to the GC battle - he'd be about the win or nothing, so would shake things up. Even in this thread, Dan is getting some criticism for his doomed attack and what it cost him in the end - he's about the only one in the top 10 who doesn't seem content to just hang in there.

That's the difference between the Tour and the other Grand Tours imo, which feeds into the racing. Top 10's and Podiums don't hold the same benefits, which encourages attacking riding. Not sure there's a way around it - it is what it is.

AlreadyHome

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm not sure I blame Sky and the skybots completely. Part of the problem is how massive the Tour is - podium and even a top 10 is worth so much to teams and riders, they'll defend those places rather than go all in for the win.

That's why Contador is such a big loss to the GC battle - he'd be about the win or nothing, so would shake things up. Even in this thread, Dan is getting some criticism for his doomed attack and what it cost him in the end - he's about the only one in the top 10 who doesn't seem content to just hang in there.

That's the difference between the Tour and the other Grand Tours imo, which feeds into the racing. Top 10's and Podiums don't hold the same benefits, which encourages attacking riding. Not sure there's a way around it - it is what it is.

Good point, this. I think this contentedness for a top 10 finish, allied with the longer, more drawn out stages of le Tour, make for a chess/cricket test match (both of which I love, I'm almost ashamed to admit) feel.

As much as I am in fact a fan of Froome, I'd be in favour of mixing a few more Giro/Vuelta style short, sharp and steep stages in with the grand slogathons of le Tour. Less time and space for teams to get settled into controlling rhythms and higher rewards for semi-suicidal attacks off the front.

REBELSAFC

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Good point, this. I think this contentedness for a top 10 finish, allied with the longer, more drawn out stages of le Tour, make for a chess/cricket test match (both of which I love, I'm almost ashamed to admit) feel.

As much as I am in fact a fan of Froome, I'd be in favour of mixing a few more Giro/Vuelta style short, sharp and steep stages in with the grand slogathons of le Tour. Less time and space for teams to get settled into controlling rhythms and higher rewards for semi-suicidal attacks off the front.

Shorter sharper stages would definitely lead to an improvement but I also think that having smaller teams and more of them (maybe 30 teams with 6 riders each) would make for much more exciting riding.
Less chance of any one team controlling things. I know there is the argument that the quality will be diminished with more teams but the best riders are with the select few teams anyway and it just might shake things up a bit.

Lusk_Doyle

neris wrote: »

get an offshore bank account to stash your illegally gotten millions in and it,ll look like an even better country

It's landlocked. How would that work?

Lusk_Doyle

Eamonnator wrote: »

In what way, have Sky poisoned cycling?

Lethal injection of pace.