Renewal of Broombridge Irish Rail

BonnieSituation

And the lack of passengers is used to justify a lack of frequency and on and on and on it goes.

LXFlyer

The main issue that has caused the low off-peak frequency on the Maynooth line is the lack of funding from the NTA.

Government cutbacks resulted in off-peak frequency being halved - until the funding increases that's not going to change.

One would assume that following on from the funding for the 10 minute DART and Phoenix Park tunnel services that the Maynooth line would be due more funding from the NTA next to increase services.

BonnieSituation

One would assume that having a functioning mass transit system in the nation's largest city would be a matter of course...

LXFlyer

BonnieSituation wrote: »

One would assume that having a functioning mass transit system in the nation's largest city would be a matter of course...

We are only now seeing government funding becoming available again after the recession - that's an unfortunate reality of the economic collapse that we suffered as a nation.

cgcsb

lxflyer wrote: »

We are only now seeing government funding becoming available again after the recession - that's an unfortunate reality of the economic collapse that we suffered as a nation.

We should've had a comprehensive frequent and well connected electrified suburban rail service in the mid-late1970s. Nothing to do with recent economic events just bumbling incompetence.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

We should've had a comprehensive frequent and well connected electrified suburban rail service in the mid-late1970s. Nothing to do with recent economic events just bumbling incompetence.

I'm well aware of that.

But the current service levels across our PT services derives from funding shortfalls.

BonnieSituation

That's a cop out though. We have ample opportunity to have had this before the collapse. The collapse is now being used as a reason to not have it now. 2027 for DU? **** sake!

I found a copy of the old DART plan when I worked for a Dublin LA and Jesus it wasn't exactly revolutionary, but just sensible. We could only dream of it now.

LXFlyer

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's a cop out though. We have ample opportunity to have had this before the collapse. The collapse is now being used as a reason to not have it now. 2027 for DU? **** sake!

I found a copy of the old DART plan when I worked for a Dublin LA and Jesus it wasn't exactly revolutionary, but just sensible. We could only dream of it now.

Absolutely and I'm not disagreeing with you re lack of capital investment.

But the immediate cause of the poor frequency on the Maynooth line is cuts in day-to-day PSO funding levels which is a separate issue.

The same cuts that resulted in shorter trains operating across the network.

BonnieSituation

lxflyer wrote: »

Absolutely and I'm not disagreeing with you re lack of capital investment.

But the immediate cause of the poor frequency on the Maynooth line is cuts in day-to-day PSO funding levels which is a separate issue.

The same cuts that resulted in shorter trains operating across the network.

Oh I know you're not. It's just frustrating. Frustrating to the point where I won't be living here to enjoy the fruits of this "plan".

fionnsci

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's a cop out though. We have ample opportunity to have had this before the collapse. The collapse is now being used as a reason to not have it now. 2027 for DU? **** sake!

I found a copy of the old DART plan when I worked for a Dublin LA and Jesus it wasn't exactly revolutionary, but just sensible. We could only dream of it now.

Is 2027 a target date for DU? All I've seen is that it's vaguely back on the table, have they announced a target?

cgcsb

Well DCC were told to suspend building a new bridge to Docklands DART station for at least 15 months so that a 'review' of DARTu can be completed. So probably another glossy brochure and millions wasted on abandoning the planning permission which could have been maintained easily.

pmcc1

Spotted a site notice today at Broomer giving a two-sentence description of the much anticipated, badly needed upgrade for the mainline rail station. They comprise:
* the pedestrian over-bridge at the eastern end of the platform including lifts & stairs.
* platform widening
That’s all the detail given.
Works apparently commenced on Aug 2nd and will run until mid February.
Hopefully the platform widening will necessitate a broader renewal of the station.

wordofwarning

A suburban station in the middle of nowhere (Broombridge is basically the middle of nowhere as it is just surrounded by industrial units and greenfields) is not going to be stellar.

IMO the only way Broombridge will be a decent station is if all the industrial estates around it are converted to housing, retail and office blocks. There is no reason why the units should stay. The likes of Glasnevin Industrial Estate was the first industrial estate in the City. It is way past its sell by date. The units are too small and old for a lot businesses. It is so close to the city, that all these estates should be housing.

Broombridge needs more mixed income housing to be a viable stop. Broombridge would likely have shops, cafes etc if it was a more mixed income area.

BonnieSituation

wordofwarning wrote: »

A suburban station in the middle of nowhere (Broombridge is basically the middle of nowhere as it is just surrounded by industrial units and greenfields) is not going to be stellar.

IMO the only way Broombridge will be a decent station is if all the industrial estates around it are converted to housing, retail and office blocks. There is no reason why the units should stay. The likes of Glasnevin Industrial Estate was the first industrial estate in the City. It is way past its sell by date. The units are too small and old for a lot businesses. It is so close to the city, that all these estates should be housing.

Broombridge needs more mixed income housing to be a viable stop. Broombridge would likely have shops, cafes etc if it was a more mixed income area.

Or perhaps terminating a new shiny tram service there could help?

wordofwarning

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Or perhaps terminating a new shiny tram service there could help?

How though? If you are taking the tram to the end of the line and not taking the commuter onwards you are likely lower income. People switching from commuter to Luas will have a limited impact versus transforming the area. The red luas line did like for run down areas like around St.James, Benburb St etc.

roadmaster

wordofwarning wrote: »

A suburban station in the middle of nowhere (Broombridge is basically the middle of nowhere as it is just surrounded by industrial units and greenfields) is not going to be stellar.

IMO the only way Broombridge will be a decent station is if all the industrial estates around it are converted to housing, retail and office blocks. There is no reason why the units should stay. The likes of Glasnevin Industrial Estate was the first industrial estate in the City. It is way past its sell by date. The units are too small and old for a lot businesses. It is so close to the city, that all these estates should be housing.

Broombridge needs more mixed income housing to be a viable stop. Broombridge would likely have shops, cafes etc if it was a more mixed income area.

i reckon what you said was one of the better ideas i have read on this forum. There is a serious amount of land between Bannow Road and Ballyboggan road that is occupied by light industry. If that area could be developed in to high density living with proper support infrastructure such as creches and shops it would be good place to live so close to the city with Bus and Heavy/Light rail on your door step. The only problem is what do you do with the business there a lot of them are only small operations and you just cant walk over them. Then again radical solutions are needed for Dublin's housing issue

BonnieSituation

It's only with use that the attractive nature of the area will become apparent. Along with rezoning of the Ind Est.

It will happen. Your idea isn't that "out there" or in fact in anyway revolutionary. Once the land owners realise that more cashmoney can be made in residential out that way, there will be a clamouring for it to be rezoned by the council and voila, more gaffs and schools and restaurants etc.

To rezone it now before the transport infrastructure exists would give a lower yield so it's hardly in anyone's interests to do so.

Good reliable public transport infrastructure ALWAYS increases land values and LCC terminating at Broombridge will be no different.

cgcsb

Rezoning Broombridge is a no brainer, when DART eventually arrives it'll be quite the hub. As it stands road access for trucks isn't great and the industrial units are old and small. If you had the cash, now would be the time to buy one before the value shoots up.

Zebra3

Hoarding up on both sides of Irish Rail platforms.

MJohnston

In reference to additional development in the Broombridge area, this new housing development nearby has gone on sale:



Hopefully as the residential density increases here, we see a push for redevelopment of the largely abandoned industrial estates.

ClovenHoof

There is already a substantial residential population at Broombridge... No idea where people get the idea only factories and warehouse there. If you cross over the bridge and walk 100 meters you are in Cabra West. Thousands of people live in and around there. Probably already a larger population there than will ever live in and around Dalkey DART station!

MJohnston

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is already a substantial residential population at Broombridge... No idea where people get the idea only factories and warehouse there. If you cross over the bridge and walk 100 meters you are in Cabra West. Thousands of people live in and around there. Probably already a larger population there than will ever live in and around Dalkey DART station!

I live in Cabra, I know the area. Nobody said there were only factories and warehouses there (or if they did, they probably meant the immediate proximity of the station), but there is a significant amount of unused industrial land nearby that is ripe for higher density redevelopment.

PhoenixParker

Also the dublin industrial estate isn't largely abandoned. It's desperately in need of an overhaul and densification but it's a busy estate with alot of active businesses. It caters alot to the business to business sector so it looks quieter then it is to a casual observer.

MJohnston

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Also the dublin industrial estate isn't largely abandoned. It's desperately in need of an overhaul and densification but it's a busy estate with alot of active businesses. It caters alot to the business to business sector so it looks quieter then it is to a casual observer.

IMO it's probably time to start moving the remaining active businesses out - I think at this stage we really need to reduce the amount of space given over to industrial estates inside the M50, especially one like this which is such prime development land.

Ballycoolin Industrial Estate is about 5 minutes extra drive away from here, and would be a good location for relocation.

Given how poor the transport network is in Dublin, we need to be heavily utilising the network that does exist with residential buildings.

PhoenixParker

MJohnston wrote: »

IMO it's probably time to start moving the remaining active businesses out - I think at this stage we really need to reduce the amount of space given over to industrial estates inside the M50, especially one like this which is such prime development land.

Ballycoolin Industrial Estate is about 5 minutes extra drive away from here, and would be a good location for relocation.

Given how poor the transport network is in Dublin, we need to be heavily utilising the network that does exist with residential buildings.

As a transport engineer absolutely not. We need to stop moving everything out to car dependent locations. The end of a transport line is a great place for light industrial and mixed density commercial.

Something like Sandyford but with a focus on building a streetscape with adequate parking provided to the rear of units. We need to lose the island buildings in a sea of car park but retain the variety of functions and services they provide.

MJohnston

PhoenixParker wrote: »

As a transport engineer absolutely not. We need to stop moving everything out to car dependent locations. The end of a transport line is a great place for light industrial and mixed density commercial.

Something like Sandyford but with a focus on building a streetscape with adequate parking provided to the rear of units. We need to lose the island buildings in a sea of car park but retain the variety of functions and services they provide.

Sandyford is a great example of what I'd like to see at Broombridge, but you can't have that without removing a large amount of the ugly warehouses that exist in the D.I.E. People just won't want to live in an industrial estate that looks the way that it currently does.

MayoSalmon

Sandyford is more a business park if anything. Broombridge is a pure industrial estate in a prime residential location. It should br simply be knocked and re-zoned for mixed development.

mrsdewinter

Passed over the bridge at Broombridge there about an hour ago (say, 1am) and I could see JCBs down on the railway track (not the Luas track). I guess they're working on a foot bridge to ease access between the Dublin-bound platform & the Luas service.

spacetweek

PhoenixParker wrote: »

As a transport engineer absolutely not. We need to stop moving everything out to car dependent locations. The end of a transport line is a great place for light industrial and mixed density commercial.

Not at all. Light industry employs few people (so there is little rush hour travel demand) and generates a lot of delivery activity, which is bulky so can't be moved using public transport.

For anything generating high travel demand, such as office business parks, shopping centres and large residential developments, they should not be moved to car dependent areas.

buffalo

MJohnston wrote: »

In reference to additional development in the Broombridge area, this new housing development nearby has gone on sale:



Hopefully as the residential density increases here, we see a push for redevelopment of the largely abandoned industrial estates.

I love how the label for Dublin "city centre" is pointing at Phibsboro Shopping Centre.