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Hard to think of fitting title - Kids can be really mean to each other

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  • 20-07-2016 3:05pm
    #1
    gmg678
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭


    HI,

    Just want to see what others think.
    I have a 4yr old girl who right now because of other children in the estate is bugging me. the story goes:

    There is a group of girls aged from 4-8 who play "together" daily and will let my daughter play with them also. one of the girls went to the same and play school and one of the girls is her cousin. every now and then they will turn on each other and wont let one of the other girls play.. calling them a baby. this happens every 2nd day to my daughter. who doesn't do that to others which annoys me so much. today was the "kick in the teeth moment"
    her friend(lets call her Nel) called this morning and asked her to come out to play. so she went out and after about 5mins her cousin(lets call her Mel) arrived out.
    so then Nel and Mel told mine D that she wasn't allowed play with them anymore. same thing happen yesterday.
    so she comes in upset. not understanding why and turns and asks "Nel is my friend and Mel is my cousin, why are they mean and wont let me play with them" (it broke my heart hearing her say that)

    I am at the point of telling her not to play with them anymore and when she starts school in September she will find new friends and she can start over.
    any thoughts or if any one has had any thing similar would be helpful.


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    #2
    mordeith
    Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    gmg678 wrote: »
    HI,

    Just want to see what others think.
    I have a 4yr old girl who right now because of other children in the estate is bugging me. the story goes:

    There is a group of girls aged from 4-8 who play "together" daily and will let my daughter play with them also. one of the girls went to the same and play school and one of the girls is her cousin. every now and then they will turn on each other and wont let one of the other girls play.. calling them a baby. this happens every 2nd day to my daughter. who doesn't do that to others which annoys me so much. today was the "kick in the teeth moment"
    her friend(lets call her Nel) called this morning and asked her to come out to play. so she went out and after about 5mins her cousin(lets call her Mel) arrived out.
    so then Nel and Mel told mine D that she wasn't allowed play with them anymore. same thing happen yesterday.
    so she comes in upset. not understanding why and turns and asks "Nel is my friend and Mel is my cousin, why are they mean and wont let me play with them" (it broke my heart hearing her say that)

    I am at the point of telling her not to play with them anymore and when she starts school in September she will find new friends and she can start over.
    any thoughts or if any one has had any thing similar would be helpful.

    So is the cousin your niece then or the cousin of the other girl?
    If the former could you not have a word with the parents maybe?


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    #3
    gmg678
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭gmg678


    mordeith wrote: »
    So is the cousin your niece then or the cousin of the other girl?
    If the former could you not have a word with the parents maybe?

    It is my niece. Having a word wold do no good. They would say that "kids are kids and they are all at it"


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    #4
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    gmg678 wrote: »
    I am at the point of telling her not to play with them anymore and when she starts school in September she will find new friends and she can start over.
    any thoughts or if any one has had any thing similar would be helpful.

    It's a tough one OP. This kinda stuff happens all the time and can often happen in school especially with girls.

    Is it important to help her learn to stand up for herself aswell but the other parents should be teaching their kids to be nice. I would be furious if my son treated someone like that and would be having a chat with him about it.

    If the other parents don't think raising their kids to be kind, considerate people then maybe they aren't the type of children your daughter should be exposed to.


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    #5
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    I dunno... While yes kids are kids etc, it's still quite cruel. If your girl is only 4 she can hardly be expected to stand up for herself at that age. My boy is only 3.5 so I haven't encountered this just yet. But if I did... I would like to think that the next time say Mel or Nel called over I would say to them (very nicely), the yes of course my son/daughter can go out to play... But if you are mean to her/him or tell her/her she can't play with you, I won't let her out to play with you anymore. And if they were still mean after that and they called to the house again.. I would say, no you were mean to him/her last time so she will not come out today. Maybe another time. And then I would invite somebody else to come over and play to make up for it another day so my son wouldn't feel left out.

    Now this is what I think I would do.. However, I might not either when the time comes. Perhaps it's a little harsh. Perhaps it could be considered as wrapping them in cotton wool. However, if it's continuously happening I would find it hard to stand by and let it continue...


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    #6
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I'd be inclined to go out to them and say (very nicely!) "What happened? Why did you tell xx that she wasn't allowed play anymore? That's not very nice. Wouldn't you be sad if someone told you, you couldn't play with them? So everybody plays together and everybody is friends, ok? Ok!"

    And off you go... Keeping the "mammy eye" at the front door every so often!


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    #7
    2xj3hplqgsbkym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭2xj3hplqgsbkym


    I think it is always hard on the youngest child. My daughter is nearly 4 and I only let her play out in the park if I am there too, as I know she often can't keep up with the others on her scooter or doesn't quite understand all the games the other kids play, so she isn't picked on teams or allowed to be 'on'.

    I see the same thing happening to my 5 year old son, his older friends will call for him or play with him, but then if there is someone else their own age they will go off with them.
    I don't think you can make them play 'baby games' with her, but encourage them as others have suggested.
    I know it is heartbreaking when someone is mean to them, but of course it is a life lesson and she needs to learn how to deal with it too.


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    #8
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    Same with my lad....other kids are a little older (a year) ...they will call for him to play and as soon as the rest of the boys come out to play they will ignore my lad or disappear into another garden and tell him he can't go with them..hard for a 5 year old to figure out what's going on and he is quiet a soft child and in fairness he is not your typical feisty young lad ...I do try and encourage him to harden up a little and as mentioned above it is a life lesson ....I don't want to go down the road of butting in just yet...
    The suggestion about saying it to the girl when she calls in next time sounds like a good idea ...just say if she is going out with them they have to play together not just till they find someone else.
    Any ideas on how to toughen up a five year old ...I don't want to change his personality as he is the friendliest and sweetest kid probably to much so for the other boys..


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    #9
    gmg678
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭gmg678


    mohawk wrote: »

    If the other parents don't think raising their kids to be kind, considerate people then maybe they aren't the type of children your daughter should be exposed to.

    myself and my partner tell her to stand up for herself and ask them why they would call her names "baby" and that she is not. I myself have spoke to those girls a number of times, once they were trying to get my daughter to swear telling her it would fine GRR. I would like her to have different friends but I do not want to alienate her from playing outside her own house.


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    #10
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Sligo1 wrote: »
    I dunno... While yes kids are kids etc, it's still quite cruel. If your girl is only 4 she can hardly be expected to stand up for herself at that age. My boy is only 3.5 so I haven't encountered this just yet. But if I did... I would like to think that the next time say Mel or Nel called over I would say to them (very nicely), the yes of course my son/daughter can go out to play... But if you are mean to her/him or tell her/her she can't play with you, I won't let her out to play with you anymore. And if they were still mean after that and they called to the house again.. I would say, no you were mean to him/her last time so she will not come out today. Maybe another time. And then I would invite somebody else to come over and play to make up for it another day so my son wouldn't feel left out.

    Now this is what I think I would do.. However, I might not either when the time comes. Perhaps it's a little harsh. Perhaps it could be considered as wrapping them in cotton wool. However, if it's continuously happening I would find it hard to stand by and let it continue...
    that is thoughts that I had. I have a soft touch when it comes to my kids. if someone hurts them I want to give out to the kids as it does seem their parents don't discipline them at all.


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    #11
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,382 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    The whole "I'm not your friend anymore" thing does seem to be a girl thing. I remember it from when I was in primary school being on both the giving and receiving end of it.
    My son is good friends with one of our neighbours' daughters and I remember when they were younger he sometimes came in sulking, M doesn't want to be friends with me anymore or M doesn't want to play with me anymore etc. It seemed to be just a girl strop thing and was blown over by the next day. They are still pally after 6 years as neighbours.


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    #12
    Smondie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Your daughter is four. How old are the other girls? Are they expected to babysit her? At four years old, why is there no parental supervision?


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    #13
    gmg678
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭gmg678


    Smondie wrote: »
    Your daughter is four. How old are the other girls? Are they expected to babysit her? At four years old, why is there no parental supervision?
    1) Did you read my first post which states the ages of the girls.
    2) why would they be expected to babysit her? not sure what you mean by that.
    2) They play in each other gardens or houses including ours. Parents are always about.


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    #14
    cyning
    Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    My little one just turned 4 this month and all she wants to do is play with the kids outside (ranging in age from 3-6). They are horrible to her: at first I was saying kids will be kids and taking her away; they kept telling her she couldn't play because she was a girl, girls can't play football etc. After reducing her to tears three times I don't let her play with them anymore. There are other kids who weren't coming out to play for same reason and they play together now. They were calling another little kid an ugly little carrot (because he has red hair). I really blame the parents for it quite frankly. They should be watching their kids.

    While my little lady needs to toughen up a little bit, she doesn't need to listen to that sort of thing at barely 4 either.


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    #15
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    cyning wrote: »
    My little one just turned 4 this month and all she wants to do is play with the kids outside (ranging in age from 3-6). They are horrible to her: at first I was saying kids will be kids and taking her away; they kept telling her she couldn't play because she was a girl, girls can't play football etc. After reducing her to tears three times I don't let her play with them anymore. There are other kids who weren't coming out to play for same reason and they play together now. They were calling another little kid an ugly little carrot (because he has red hair). I really blame the parents for it quite frankly. They should be watching their kids.

    While my little lady needs to toughen up a little bit, she doesn't need to listen to that sort of thing at barely 4 either.
    That's horrible, as you said a lot of these issues are down to parents not keeping a closer eye on the kids....they also must be hearing similar comments at home if they are repeating stuff out playing... You are right to separate your child from them.


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    #16
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    I absolutely agree with the last 2 posters. I wouldn't really want mine to be hanging around children who are saying such things. Mine are no angels by any means... But there is no way I would allow them to speak to others in such a way.


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    #17
    Smondie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    gmg678 wrote: »
    1) Did you read my first post which states the ages of the girls.
    2) why would they be expected to babysit her? not sure what you mean by that.
    2) They play in each other gardens or houses including ours. Parents are always about.
    Yes I did read your post. It says ages 4-8. An 8 year olds interests and abilities are different from a four year olds and it's understandable they may want to be doing different things than a 4 year old.


    When they are out playing are these 4-8 year olds expected to look after your child, help her cross the road, not leave her on her own to go off and do something else more appropriate to thier age etc.

    If there is parental supervision how is it getting to the stage where your daughter gets so upset without someone stepping in?


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    #18
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    Smondie wrote: »
    Yes I did read your post. It says ages 4-8. An 8 year olds interests and abilities are different from a four year olds and it's understandable they may want to be doing different things than a 4 year old.


    When they are out playing are these 4-8 year olds expected to look after your child, help her cross the road, not leave her on her own to go off and do something else more appropriate to thier age etc.

    If there is parental supervision how is it getting to the stage where your daughter gets so upset without someone stepping in?
    Get down off your high horse, no mention of crossing roads , OP said the kids play in the gardens so well supervised ...just a good parent looking out for the kid...kids of all ages play together...stop trolling and trying to make op look bad..


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    #19
    cyning
    Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    Smondie wrote: »
    Yes I did read your post. It says ages 4-8. An 8 year olds interests and abilities are different from a four year olds and it's understandable they may want to be doing different things than a 4 year old.


    When they are out playing are these 4-8 year olds expected to look after your child, help her cross the road, not leave her on her own to go off and do something else more appropriate to thier age etc.

    If there is parental supervision how is it getting to the stage where your daughter gets so upset without someone stepping in?

    I was standing 5 steps away when my 4 year old got upset. Three times. Unless you can read minds there's no way of knowing what someone else is going to say. I'm an adult and words still hurt me let alone little 4 year olds who only want to play with their friends.


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    #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Can you give her some key phrases to use? She may not actually have the language to deal with this either. Can you role play a bit with her?
    It won't take away the hurt, but it might reduce the situation if she can say "key phrase X" in response and then walk away from them. It's desperately hard though.
    I have to say, as mother to 2 small girls, I wouldn't be mad about them playing with older kids like that as there is a fairly big disparity in abilities and interests. But I do understand that it's hard to keep them apart, especially if one is her cousin.


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    #21
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Big Bag of Chips wrote: »
    I'd be inclined to go out to them and say (very nicely!) "What happened? Why did you tell xx that she wasn't allowed play anymore? That's not very nice. Wouldn't you be sad if someone told you, you couldn't play with them? So everybody plays together and everybody is friends, ok? Ok!"

    And off you go... Keeping the "mammy eye" at the front door every so often!

    Yup, this.

    Ask/tell the other kids to play nice. Don't be afraid of talking to them directly at all. You are allowed talk to children who are not your own. I do it occasionally at playgrounds or with their friends if someone is acting the maggot. And if my daughter was being a diva, I'd hope someone else would call her on it too.


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    #22
    2nd Row Donkey
    Registered Users Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭2nd Row Donkey


    The next time one of the other kids knocks at your front door asking "is B coming out to play" - use that as an opportunity to say

    "but yesterday you asked her to play and then you where mean to her when mel/nel turned up, are you going to ignore her again?"

    Having said that it will probably only have a short term effect.

    I'm currently on holiday with my 6 y.o. (only child) and she is desperately trying to make friends around the swimming pool resort and the same thing is happening to her and it's heart breaking. Boys are quite friendly but other girls can be unbelievably rude and just repeatedly turn their backs and walk away.

    The important thing is that your little girl doesn't stop trying to integrate and mix. You don't want her go end up spending all her time close to parents and only having adults as friends.


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    #23
    Chocolate fiend
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Chocolate fiend


    I think she is just too young for them, and as the mum of a 4 year old girl myself there is no way I would be letting her play with them. I bet by the time next summer rolls around and she has a year of school under her belt things will be very different.

    It's okay to say no, it's okay to say she can't go and play with them. If you are having to go out every time as well it would probably be good to say no to them.

    I would imagine they find her cute and everything, and then get sick of her. Not nice to watch as a parent, but, kids are fickle and as much as we want them to be kind to everyone, not even adults with all the reasoning in the world can be nice to everyone.

    Does she have any friends you can have over for her to play with?


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    #24
    dubstarr
    Registered Users Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭dubstarr


    I think the age gap is too big.My 5 year old plays out with his older brother and his friends.Sometimes they dont want to play with him because they want to do other stuff.
    Maybe get someone her own age in to play with her and see how that goes.


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    #25
    Turtle_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    Chocolate fiend wrote: »
    I think she is just too young for them, and as the mum of a 4 year old girl myself there is no way I would be letting her play with them. I bet by the time next summer rolls around and she has a year of school under her belt things will be very different.

    I admit I'm not a parent, just my own experience. I started school just days after turning 4. Some of the kids in my year were almost 2 years older than me. Awkward, because academically I was ahead of the class but socially I was way too young.

    She's just too young to hang around with them for extended time. It's just a suggestion, but next time they call for her why not say "Oh sure, but we're doing something in half an hour so she'll have to come back in then". Might strike a balance? I only suggest this because sometimes as a kid (all the kids were I lived were older than me as well!) I was often relieved when I was called in from playing with older kids after a while...


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gmg678 wrote: »
    It is my niece. Having a word wold do no good. They would say that "kids are kids and they are all at it"

    I have worked with friends who have siblings with similar age gaps and they would often not play or interact well together at all.

    What I tried to implement in their household was that they sit down for awhile as often as they could - daily would be ideal but whatever time allows - and come up with games that not only do the siblings play together but they are actually reliant on each other.

    Perhaps something similar would work with you. Rather than approach the parents of your niece in a negative "Your child is being mean to mine and we need to fix that" which you have already said yourself would likely be pointless - come with a more positive "I think it is great they are getting to grow up together and get to know each other - and I have some ideas to make that even better" kind of attitude.

    And then maybe you - and hopefully they - can implement taking turns in finding time where you sit down with the two girls and put them into those games you have thought of.

    An incentive to get the other parents behind you on it is that during this time you are essentially babysitting for them - and they for you - so this can be "me time" for the parents who are having their child babysat.

    The result of the games when I have done it is they have learned not only to play together - but to trust and rely on each other - have fun with each other - and have good memories with each other - which forms bonds that make it more unlikely they will treat each other mean or simply discard each other on a whim. I think Jo Frost used to have something similar called her "play together technique" which she implemented with siblings that were not bonding well.

    Games can be all sorts. Puzzles and treasure hunts that they have to work together on. Blindfolding one - while the other guides them verbally to some goal or achievement is another good one. One of them distract and hold daddy attention while the other sneaks up behind and water balloons him. Cut paper in half in a jaggedy unique way and have them draw or pain something where the page then has to be put back together to join up. Or there is make it yourself jewelry kits where each child gets half of some item of jewelry that fits together after they design and color it.

    The list goes on. And on. You will think of your own ideas - and I am sure other parents on this forum can offer more.

    And of course lots of praise and upbeat tones of voice and the like when they are doing it - especially where cooperation and mutual support is displayed.


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