TDF - STAGE 18 - 17km ITT - Sallanches / Megève

WinnyThePoo

Yep. The two other grand tours usually are more exciting. D umoloins battle against Astana last year was great viewing.

happytramp

Brian? wrote: »

It's been a terrible tour. Worse than last year but nowhere near as bad as 2012. That was shocking.

Sky have chocked the life from the Tour. What can you do but move on and hope it's different next year.

I think this year has been far, far worse. Nobody has put in a meaningful attack, the entire tour, not one (bar Froome of course). Not only that the break has won a huge amount of stages so you don't even have the GC guys going for stage glory. Coupled with the vast amount of pan flat sprint days and lack of medium mountain, or punchy stages it's been nothing short of atrocious. They even scheduled a flat transitional sprint stage for the second Saturday. I'm actually feeling somewhat annoyed at myself for having wasted so much time watching it.

dastardly00

Nairo Quintana

REBELSAFC wrote: »

I don't think they did....the just kept going at their relentless monospeed brilliance

Okay I thought they did increase their tempo after Dan attacked, but I am probably wrong and you are right

velo.2010

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I thought the Euros were pretty boring. Sure, Ireland got everyone excited, then Iceland and Wales, but overall not the best tournament.

Then Wimbledon wasn't as electric as previous years (nothing will top 2008 for me!).

But then along comes the Tour, unless you're a Froome fan and marvel at Sky's total domination of the race, it's been a disaster of a sporting spectacle. I wonder how it will be looked at in years to come.

I think every sport is falling into the 'marginal gains' trap these days. There are apps and programmes for measuring every aspect of sporting performance. More coaches analysing tactics - similar to American sports which are incredibly dull to watch. Soccer is in danger of following suit.

Rio is coming up! Perhaps that'll improve the sporting mood but yet I don't find myself getting too excited about that either. I've heard and read too much about what athletes can do to take PEDs and avoid getting caught. Most ordinary folk don't believe what they'll watch in Rio will be god given ability, but they'll still tune in anyway just to say they saw something extraordinary.

As for Froome. I have some sympathy for him regarding a lack of appreciation for what he is achieving. The Brits were creaming themselves in 2012 about Wiggens Tour win and gold medal. However, Froome, who will probably add gold in Rio and ultimately achieve more in cycling, goes unnoticed unless its a farcical scenario like the events we saw on Ventoux.

Burial.

Chris Froome

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Plus Chases, Aru, and Martin at his favourite grand tour God I love the Vuelta

I'm most looking forward to Miguel Angel Lopez in his first GT. He's my outside tip for the overall.

happytramp

velo.2010 wrote: »

However, Froome, who will probably add gold in Rio and ultimately achieve more in cycling, goes unnoticed unless its a farcical scenario like the events we saw on Ventoux.

I don't think Froome's ever won a one day race before, can't see him starting during the olympics.

neris

at1withmyself wrote: »

Watch the Vuelta later this year, should be good with Contador, Froome & Quintana

Im starting to think Quintana aint all hes cracked up to be & with tinkoff going at the end of the season bertie might be struggling to find loyal domestiques in his team, especially those riding to get in the shop window but I think the racing at the Vuelta is better and more aggresive

Brian?

Nairo Quintana

at1withmyself wrote: »

Watch the Vuelta later this year, should be good with Contador, Froome & Quintana

I doubt Froome will do the Vuelta

Brian?

Nairo Quintana

neris wrote: »

Im starting to think Quintana aint all hes cracked up to be & with tinkoff going at the end of the season bertie might be struggling to find loyal domestiques in his team, especially those riding to get in the shop window but I think the racing at the Vuelta is better and more aggresive

Since when does Contador need domestiques? for all his grand tour wins, he's never had the strongest team. Last years Giro was Contador v Astana and it was brilliant.

pelevin

dastardly00 wrote: »

Well Dan attacked yesterday... And Sky immediately upped the tempo and reeled him back in fairly quickly.

Why did Sky chase him down, I don't know. He wasn't a threat to GC yesterday anymore than he is now after today's stage.

Because they're superhuman asswholes.

To add, Dan said he attacked as there seemed to be a bit of a drop in the pace & he thought he might be let go but soon found out that no, he wasn't going to be let go anywhere. Poels raised his heartrate half a beat & he got swallowed up.

AlreadyHome

Chris Froome

Impressed by Froome's pacing today - had it spot on. Disappointed Yates didn't hold his early pace until the line and was hoping Dan might do a bit better.

Looking at the GC standings, with less than a minute separating 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th from a podium place, we could see some smashing ding dongs over the course of the last two mountain stages. Unfortunate that Saturday finishes on yet another descent...

My money's on Porte to snatch bottom step on the podium!

neris

Brian? wrote: »

Since when does Contador need domestiques? for all his grand tour wins, he's never had the strongest team. Last years Giro was Contador v Astana and it was brilliant.

against sky he,ll need them, Sky will try the same stuff in the vuelta to protect their leader who ever that will be and it,ll be Bertie vs Sky

JK.BMC

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Impressed by Froome's pacing today - had it spot on. Disappointed Yates didn't hold his early pace until the line and was hoping Dan might do a bit better.

Looking at the GC standings, with less than a minute separating 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th from a podium place, we could see some smashing ding dongs over the course of the last two mountain stages. Unfortunate that Saturday finishes on yet another descent...

My money's on Porte to snatch bottom step on the podium!

I would like to think that SKY will at least abate a tiny bit in the next 2 stages and let somebody in the top dozen or so away at some stage. Unlikely however- at this stage I'm just wondering why a few don't give it a go and say fcuk it I mite as well earn a bit of admiration for at least trying to make it interesting. For me, only Valverde and Dan have made any sort of effort so far.

On another note- this sounds a bit mad but what bores the hell out of me is seeing a team 'train' steaming up the mountain and Yellow Jersey just sits there counting watts and cadence behind his team mates; we need somebody with a bit of the dog to behave the way riders in sprints do and fight for the wheel; how about somebody give Wout Poels a slight elbow, or Mollema for example to cut in front of Froome and get on Henao's wheel; disrupt the rhythm, insult his hair-do, jayzus anything to make it awkward or at the very least a contest of sorts; it's all fair game on the flat- why just sit there obediently on a climb?

Moflojo

Vasil Kiryienka

I think one of the side effects of Froome's dominance is that his nearest rivals are more concerned with losing their own potential podium places than actually attacking Froome. I'd love to see some of the top GC contenders try to pool their resources and take on the Sky train together but that's not going to happen because they've their own rivalries to worry about. The only way to break down that Sky train is for multiple rapid individual attacks or a joint attack by two or more of the GC contenders.

dastardly00

Nairo Quintana

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Unfortunate that Saturday finishes on yet another descent...

Well we might see some kamikaze descending from the likes of Bardet!!

Burial.

Chris Froome

Moflojo wrote: »

I think one of the side effects of Froome's dominance is that his nearest rivals are more concerned with losing their own potential podium places than actually attacking Froome. I'd love to see some of the top GC contenders try to pool their resources and take on the Sky train together but that's not going to happen because they've their own rivalries to worry about. The only way to break down that Sky train is for multiple rapid individual attacks or a joint attack by two or more of the GC contenders.

I agree and the vast majority of GC lads seem content with that, TJ Van Garderen being exhibit A who seems to never give it a go. We all know the famous Contador quote about second place but he seems to be an outlier. Bardet to his credit seems to share that philosophy who recently commented how modern cycling bored him.

Contador has provided the answer to the Sky train as seen in the Dauphine. Attack early in a climb and sustain it. However who in the current Tour or in fact in Cycling as a whole has the form or ability to do that? Dan Martin isn't a world class climber to go from that distance tbh. Dan has had a great season but his proper mountain attacks in the Tour are akin to the typical Warren Barguil acceleration before being eaten up within a minute. Valverde is wrecked with nearly 2 GTs in his legs. He'll give it a lash though. Nibbles bossed it the other day but again the man is shattered after a heroic Giro and has the Olympics in his mind. Quintana has no form. Quintana is clearly a top climber on his day but he seems to lack that fierce explosion which is needed. Mollema isn't a world class climber. Yates looks to be on the limit and he's not going to budge. Purito is riding his last Tour and I think he'll go for a solo tomorrow from deep. Porte, Bardet and Aru are capable given their day, a peak Aru probably being the best choice for an explosive climber and he seems to be riding himself into form. A Bardet/Aru duo would be a nice thing to see though. Two young lads with a bit of guts.

JK.BMC

Burial. wrote: »

I agree and the vast majority of GC lads seem content with that, TJ Van Garderen being exhibit A who seems to never give it a go. We all know the famous Contador quote about second place but he seems to be an outlier. Bardet to his credit seems to share that philosophy who recently commented how modern cycling bored him.

Contador has provided the answer to the Sky train as seen in the Dauphine. Attack early in a climb and sustain it. However who in the current Tour or in fact in Cycling as a whole has the form or ability to do that? Dan Martin isn't a world class climber to go from that distance tbh. Dan has had a great season but his proper mountain attacks in the Tour are akin to the typical Warren Barguil acceleration before being eaten up within a minute. Valverde is wrecked with nearly 2 GTs in his legs. He'll give it a lash though. Nibbles bossed it the other day but again the man is shattered after a heroic Giro and has the Olympics in his mind. Quintana has no form. Quintana is clearly a top climber on his day but he seems to lack that fierce explosion which is needed. Mollema isn't a world class climber. Yates looks to be on the limit and he's not going to budge. Purito is riding his last Tour and I think he'll go for a solo tomorrow from deep. Porte, Bardet and Aru are capable given their day, a peak Aru probably being the best choice for an explosive climber and he seems to be riding himself into form. A Bardet/Aru duo would be a nice thing to see though. Two young lads with a bit of guts.

Very good analysis: the duo mentioned are young enough to win in future years so they may as well give it a lash this year; if only we saw it happen.
And yes Purito is a good bet for tomorrow, or indeed Saturday

Brian?

Nairo Quintana

neris wrote: »

against sky he,ll need them, Sky will try the same stuff in the vuelta to protect their leader who ever that will be and it,ll be Bertie vs Sky

Like they did in 2014?

Dr. Bre

The tour is the most prestigious but it's the least exciting of the 3 grand tours.. Astana Movistar send strong teams to the other tours but sky fully focus on the tour and that's why they dominate so much! The way nibali won the giro this year wow! And I can't remember a boring vuelta recently.. Would love to see froome go into a final week of a tour couple mins down and see what he does!

letape

Some randomer no 1 was expecting to win

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Plus Chavez, Aru, and Martin at his favourite grand tour God I love the Vuelta

Hopefully we will have both Nico and MPFGLB back for the Vuelta too. Not the same without them.

letape

Some randomer no 1 was expecting to win

dastardly00 wrote: »

Okay I thought they did increase their tempo after Dan attacked, but I am probably wrong and you are right

I watched the stage and it looked to me that they increased thir pace too!

Daroxtar

Is it possible that La Vuelta is tougher for Sky to control due to the viciousness of the climbs? They can put the train in motion on the alps and keep it going up a 5-7% gradient all day long but hurt them with a couple of km around 10-12% with some 20% ramps and everything gets blown open. Look at Sotres or Ermita de Alba last year, bodies everywhere. Not just Sky obviously, the really nasty stuff kills indiscriminately but it leaves the best fighting for themselves.
When Dumoulin finally cracked last year it wasn't trains grinding him down, it was multiple attacks on the steepest stuff and a good lad up the road.

xxyyzz

How sky are controlling the climbs http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/tour-de-france/how-skys-brutal-climbing-tactics-work_415421

irishrover99

This years Vuelta route summary below. And not many of the stages have multiple climbs in a stage. Mostly one tough climb at the end and lots of finishes with 2nd/3rd Cat climbs near the finish. Should be a cracker and i expect Aru to be in form along with Contador as Aru seems to be finishing the tour one of the strongest.

[font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif][*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]7 flat stages (2 with high-altitude finales)[/font]
[*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]12 hill and mountain stages[/font]
[*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]1 individual time trial stage[/font]
[*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]1 team time trial stage[/font]
[/font]
Distinctive aspects of the race

[font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif][*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]29,4 km individual time trial[/font]
[*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]39 km team time trial[/font]
[*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]51 summits[/font]
[*][font=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]2 rest days[/font]
[/font]

Eamonnator

Nairo Quintana

xxyyzz wrote: »

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/tour-de-france/how-skys-brutal-climbing-tactics-work_415421

Good article that

Decuc500

Burial. wrote: »

I agree and the vast majority of GC lads seem content with that, TJ Van Garderen being exhibit A who seems to never give it a go.

You obviously weren't watching the Tour of Switzerland this year. Van Garderen isn't a natural climber, unlike a lot of his gc rivals. He might never win a three week tour but I'd never say it's because of a lack of trying.

pelevin

xxyyzz wrote: »

How sky are controlling the climbs http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/tour-de-france/how-skys-brutal-climbing-tactics-work_415421

Poels' words seem to show specifically how they can ride to power-metres to basically close down the racing completely, obviously once they have the legs. Or at least that it makes the tactic of riding just below the threshold far simpler to reduce to a specific formula of how hard to go. It mightn't be that huge a difference if they were banned for racing but it'd have to help. And as Poels himself agrees, it makes for f...g boring racing to watch. It's seriously for me the death of racing seeing as it's a horrible experience rather than an enjoyable one to spend free-time looking at it.

mloc123

pelevin wrote: »

Poels' words seem to show specifically how they can ride to power-metres to basically close down the racing completely, obviously once they have the legs. Or at least that it makes the tactic of riding just below the threshold far simpler to reduce to a specific formula of how hard to go. It mightn't be that huge a difference if they were banned for racing but it'd have to help. And as Poels himself agrees, it makes for f...g boring racing to watch. It's seriously for me the death of racing seeing as it's a horrible experience rather than an enjoyable one to spend free-time looking at it.

More ****ing 'marginal gains' bull**** from Sky.

The reason they dominate is nothing to do with looking at wattage on a headunit. The reason is that the other riders cannot produce enough wattage to break them. Why can known dopers not hold the wheel of Skybots? Who knows :rolleyes:

xxyyzz

Maybe the answer is to attack them on the flat stages, in cross winds etc. Sky packed the team with climbers this year so maybe attack them in other areas and then just match them on the climbs. It would at least force them to field a more balanced team. I dunno really, just thinking outside the box. They are very frustrating to watch.

dastardly00

Nairo Quintana

Has there been any articles or discussion on whether a rear disc wheel was the best option for the ITT?

I find it odd that only two riders (Froome & Mollema) out of the 25 riders or so who went full gas during the ITT chose the full disc.

You would expect all the main favourites/GC riders to have the same setup.