Media: Minister Coveney Promises cheaper homes in Dublin

The_Conductor

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coveney-promises-significantly-cheaper-homes-in-dublin-1.2728960

Article is behind a paywall- and we are not allowed to quote it however the gist of it is:

• Minister promises to reduce the price of housing in Dublin
• Initially this would involve properties in the Strategic Development Zones (such as Cherrywood)
• New houses (and he did specifically say 'houses' not apartments) are to cost in the region of €250,000 to €260,000
• New plan to encourage developers to build 'affordable homes' to be unveiled in the budget in October- independent of assistance to first time buyers- which will also be unveiled and detailed at the same time
• He envisages houses being delivered at approx 25% less than current construction prices for the areas concerned (the example quoted suggested it costs 330k to build a 3 bed semi- which includes an 11% margin for the developer- it is envisaged that this property type would be built in large numbers and sold for 250k)

In a Dublin context- development to be focused on the pre-existing SDZs of

• Adamstown
• Clonburris-Balgaddy (less than a mile away from Adamstown- this could make the greater Lucan area an even worse mess- its being sold as Lucan- but its actually the other side of the Nangor Road)
• Cherrywood
• Hansfield
• The docklands in the city centre
• Grangegorman
• Further areas of north county Dublin, Meath and Louth

Outside of Dublin- immediate priority to volume construction to be focused on:

• Clonmagadden in Meath
• Monard in Cork
• North quays in Waterford
• Portlaoise

Separately- the Minister firmly rejected a proposal to allow further disposals of pre-existing local authority housing stocks to tenants under the discounted purchase schemes- calling the scheme entirely counter productive.

Full text of the Minister's speech is on the Oireachtas website.

In short- the intention is the delivery of large volumes of houses- initially in the Dublin area- at prices at least 25% below current construction prices- driven by a 10k incentive package for first time buyers- alongside new construction industry incentives to drop the construction cost of these- probably to around 215/220k- down from their current 300-330k levels (should be interesting how this happens......)

Similar article cached available here (no paywall)

This bit stands out re: FTB 'grant' ......

Speaking earlier on Inside Politics, economist Colm McCarthy as said Government assistance for first-time buyers would not address the issue of a shortage of housing and would only serve to increase house prices further.

Lorcan Sirr, a lecturer in housing with Dublin Institute of Technology and Professor Tony Fahey of University College Dublin agreed that the key pillar of the Government’s housing plan could cause house prices to increase further.

Sad Professor

Since he's talking about cost to build, does the €250,000 to €260,000 figure include profit for the developer? Because if it doesn't that will add another 30k – at least.

Angel2016

I heard him on the Matt Cooper show and listening to him you would feel confident that he has a plan in place and will sort it but I just don't believe it myself I have seen so many times the government promising change and nothing, it still leaves the problem of the huge deposits people need to buy a house which they cant save and end up in the rental market.

snubbleste

Angel2016 wrote: »

I heard him on the Matt Cooper show and listening to him you would feel confident that he has a plan in place and will sort it but I just don't believe it myself I have seen so many times the government promising change and nothing, it still leaves the problem of the huge deposits people need to buy a house which they cant save and end up in the rental market.

You should've listened to Rté Cormac Ó hEadhra on Tuesday guillotining him instead

quadrifoglio verde

Clonburris is bawnogue on the clondalkin side of the canal and kishogue on the other isn't it.....personally think you'd need your head examined to drop 250K there.
Likewise cherrywood, celbridge is closer to the city.
What's next balbriggan to be a strategic development zone?
I'd like to see the docklands as a strategic development zone, with a 50 storey height limit. In the 1960s we were building taller buildings in Dublin than we are today
What's wrong with well thought out high rise apartment blocks in an area where people want to live

Idbatterim

there was another article in the times the other day, that said without Dart underground, it is unlikely that Councillors will be able to aprove the SDZ for clonburris 9000 new homes and in adamstown, 8000 more homes.

Unless a commitment is given to developing Dart Underground it was difficult to see how councillors could approve the creation of the SDZ for Clonburris later this year, Mr Lavelle said.
“We cannot deal with the housing crisis unless we deal with this looming transport crisis. Clonburris will be a non-runner without Dart Underground. The surrounding road network cannot take any more traffic, and I would expect councillors will vote against the SDZ if Dart Underground is not reinstated.”

A FG councillor Mr LAvelle is quoted, I am emailing him now to urge them councillors not to create the SDZ! If they actually care about their area and citizens. They will force these CLOWNS in government to go ahead with DU now, go with the same plan which has lapsed or if a revised scheme, look to have it all done and dusted and planning sought in less than a year. They have the original plans for christ sake!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dart-underground-needed-to-enable-17-000-new-homes-1.2725448#]

What's wrong with well thought out high rise apartment blocks in an area where people want to live

I think I know their issue, Ballymun! sure can you not see it now, employees in the docklands on 35-40k plus, wrecking their towers!

Idbatterim

I sent of an email there, I will be emailing the rest of the councillors in that area aswell. Not permitting more housing in adamstown and permitting the creation of the SDZ in Clonburris, might be what it takes to get these morons and I am being polite when I refer to them as morons, to act!

1. Simply throw the original scheme back through the planning process. 2) if a revised scheme, have it on the table in under a year, christ they already have the plans for the original schemes which the revised versions will broadly follow!!!

My far preferred option is go with the original superior scheme. I believe construction inflation is running at 9%, wait another 5 years with all the new planning related costs, to get an inferior scheme? Even with the exra the government claim the new scheme will save, the vast majority will go back into their coffers anyway. There is nothing wrong with the original scheme, cowardice is the problem...

Likewise cherrywood, celbridge is closer to the city.

give me cherrywood any day. Near the coast, and has the Luas operating every few minutes until 12:30am and again at 5:30am weekdays . Also runs much later over Xmas and new year period...

foggy_lad

So Simon Coveney is somehow going to convince developers to drop the price of their houses by up to €100,000 just by asking them nicely?

These are the same Government who couldn't erect prefabricated units in Dunsink and other areas for the homeless despite spending more per unit than they propose spending on these houses!

This Simply won't work. the developers won't bite and it will be plagued with planning and other issues because no real thought has gone into it apart from a massive jerk of the knee to kick the ball a little further along the road.

Hazydays123

I was on the fence about whether I should go ahead with my own sale agreed purchase in light of all this free money/cheap houses talk, but I can happily say I don't want to live in any of the areas listed.

There's nothing wrong with any of them per se, but they're all too far out from the city centre from a commuting and traffic perspective (docklands aside).

There's a lot to be said for a second hand house in an older, more established area, even if I don't get the free money!

athtrasna

Mod note While politics is inextricably linked to housing please bear in mind that this is the accommodation and property forum. If you want to just have a political rant, please take it to one of the politics fora. Thanks

The_Conductor

Sad Professor wrote: »

Since he's talking about cost to build, does the €250,000 to €260,000 figure include profit for the developer? Because if it doesn't that will add another 30k – at least.

Well- the 330k figure he used- factors in an 11% margin for the developer- presumably there is a similar convention used in the lower figure?

I'd love to know how/where he is imagining he'll chop a third (or more) from the price though- at this point in time- in the complete and utter absence of any detail- it comes across as wishy-washy wishful thinking- I'd say it doesn't add up- but I don't even have any basis on which to say its hogwash.

Its disingenuous in the extreme flying kites like this- giving hope to all manner of people- without there being any substance whatsoever to backup the claims that are being made.

julio arca

This announcement has come at an awful time for me personally. Myself and my partner have worked hard saving while renting for the last 5 years. We finally cobbled together enough for a deposit and on Monday we went sale agreed on a second hand home not far from Cherrywood which is one of the areas in the SDZ. We really wanted a new build but this was not possible in our desired area so we settled for second hand. The sale agreed price is well in excess of the proposed cost price of the new homes to be built in Cherrywood.

What are we expected to do in this situation? Do we wait in limbo for the details to unwind and then wait another two years for the homes to be built? Do we go ahead with the purchase and watch the value of our home decrease due to the availability of cheaper homes in the area? This announcement along with the lack of details are alarming for people in situations similar to ourselves. I genuinely don't know what to do.

gitsy606

Does that mean the new grant will be only made available to FTBs in the areas mentioned?

Angel2016

snubbleste wrote: »

You should've listened to Rté Cormac Ó hEadhra on Tuesday guillotining him instead

Yeah I should have as I think the Matt Cooper show they are fully prepared and rehearsed on what they say, I have had dealings with Simon Coveney from him being the minister for agriculture as I am in animal rescue and he was useless at that so have no confidence in him really as a minister but I wont get all political, I overheard a person on the Luas the other day talking about the housing crisis and lack of supply and also the deposits and she said its " heartbreaking & soul destroying thinking that she will be stuck in the rental market and I tend to agree.

julio arca

julio arca wrote: »

This announcement has come at an awful time for me personally. Myself and my partner have worked hard saving while renting for the last 5 years. We finally cobbled together enough for a deposit and on Monday we went sale agreed on a second hand home not far from Cherrywood which is one of the areas in the SDZ. We really wanted a new build but this was not possible in our desired area so we settled for second hand. The sale agreed price is well in excess of the proposed cost price of the new homes to be built in Cherrywood.

What are we expected to do in this situation? Do we wait in limbo for the details to unwind and then wait another two years for the homes to be built? Do we go ahead with the purchase and watch the value of our home decrease due to the availability of cheaper homes in the area? This announcement along with the lack of details are alarming for people in situations similar to ourselves. I genuinely don't know what to do.

If you consider the home to be your home and not an asset, ignore totally the cost of the homes around you and buy the house that you have agreed to buy (so long as you do want it, and can afford it). It matters not (in that case) what anyone else's house costs. If anything, your home's value (to you! not cash) might be boosted by increased infrastructure and services as the newly envisaged homes are planned out and supported.

If however you are planning on moving again in some years (family changes etc) then think carefully about the impact. All possibilities should be weighed up and costed. It is not an easy decision to make, but it is definitely a personal one. This scenario now requires some amount of 'speculation' and 'gaming', and that unfortunately means risk.

keane2097

The_Conductor wrote: »

Well- the 330k figure he used- factors in an 11% margin for the developer- presumably there is a similar convention used in the lower figure?

I'd love to know how/where he is imagining he'll chop a third (or more) from the price though- at this point in time- in the complete and utter absence of any detail- it comes across as wishy-washy wishful thinking- I'd say it doesn't add up- but I don't even have any basis on which to say its hogwash.

Its disingenuous in the extreme flying kites like this- giving hope to all manner of people- without there being any substance whatsoever to backup the claims that are being made.

He was on the IT's Inside Politics for about 40 mins released yesterday. He gave some detail.

Part of the plan I gather is to use publicly owned land to reduce the costs and he expects some savings based on the goal of reducing planning periods from 1-3 years currently to ~6 months aspirationally.

I must say he comes across like a guy who is genuine about wanting to make a positive change here.

As an aside, what the actual **** are FF at with their "let's sell the last of the houses we own for half price". Someone should be put against the wall for that garbage.