Fly-tipping

oflahero

If you tool around the fringes of the M50 near Dublin even semi-regularly, you'll be familiar with the sight of long lines of dumped rubbish sacks in the ditch. You start seeing the furniture once you get up at altitude. I even spotted stacks of dumped tyres at the entrance to the Kippure mast road a few weeks ago.

This absolutely kills me to see, and I often haul myself up climbs fuelled by violent revenge fantasies against the offenders. I don't know if this is old news, but apparently there's an app for reporting fly-tipping to your local council. Take a pic, press button, done.

Android here, iPhone here.

Pros: cyclists are the natural patrollers of the countryside.
Cons: there goes your Strava time.

magicbastarder

it reports the issue to fixyourstreet.ie - is there a relationship between this site and the council? you'd usually see affiliated council logos if there is.

oflahero

More info here. It claims that all local authorities use that site..

One_Of_Shanks

It's utterly disgraceful alright. And just watch next year when people's bin charges get trebled, it will become even more prevalent.

Anything that can be done to make it easier to report is positive.

magicbastarder

i haven't smelled nearly as many cases of people burning domestic rubbish in their gardens this year around NCD.

UrbanSprawl

Its disgusting,everyone should be vigilant and report these utter scumbags.
I see they don't even bother driving to the countryside any more.I have seen increasingly bags of rubbish dumped on the streets in Saggart and its only likely to get worse as the cost of disposing of rubbish increases.If I seen someone doing it I would most certainly take a picture.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hundred-tonnes-of-rubbish-found-in-illegal-co-wicklow-dump-1.2728781

In Co Mayo, the owners of correspondence found dumped in Ballyhaunis said they had no idea their personal letters would end up dumped in bags of rubbish on a quiet country road in Carrowneaden.
A number of people have been identified by their correspondence. Some have claimed they paid a reputable contractor to remove the waste and they believed it to be going to a licensed landfill.

Well obviously these people should have proof that they paid reputable contractors or else fine them heavily,jail even.

CramCycle

UrbanSprawl wrote: »

In Co Mayo, the owners of correspondence found dumped in Ballyhaunis said they had no idea their personal letters would end up dumped in bags of rubbish on a quiet country road in Carrowneaden.
A number of people have been identified by their correspondence. Some have claimed they paid a reputable contractor to remove the waste and they believed it to be going to a licensed landfill.

Well obviously these people should have proof that they paid reputable contractors or else fine them heavily,jail even.

Happened a friend of mine, living in Dublin. he was clearing out his garage and he found a local advertisement about rubbish collection and disposal. Cleared out the garage, guys came round, handed over the cash and got a receipt. They said they were going to the local dump and they brought large loads to keep costs down.

Found a few weeks later dumped near his families ancestral home in Longford. He was given the choice of clearing the whole area or paying a huge fine. He ended up clearing the whole area as he could not afford the fine.

He showed the receipt and offered the number but they didn't care, his name, his problem.

He accepted that he thought he was getting a good deal but he did believe them as their story added up and he got a receipt.

Pity the Gardai are not called to get involved with help from the dumping section of the council and target these operations.

Red Kev

Put bin charges in with property tax. Allow people to throw rubbish/junk out free of charge in council tips/recycling areas. Use the polluter pays principle: a bit like the charge that you pay when buying a fridge, it should be applied everywhere and you should be able to dump stuff in council controlled sites.

The above is standard in many countries, it works and it's the only way fly tipping will be stopped.

Leroy42

CramCycle wrote: »

He showed the receipt and offered the number but they didn't care, his name, his problem.

I wonder what the actual legal position on this is. Since your firend can prove, by receipt, that he paid someone else to do the job, at what point does he still remain his problem?

Is there a register of approved collectors available for each CC? If not then surely there should be and once you go with an approved collector then the problem moves to them.

My bet would be that the CC just bullied your friend rather than go after the joker than actually caused the mess.

magicbastarder

i think the law states that it's his responsibility to ensure the person he's paying is licenced/reputable.

speaking of getting rid of rubbish, this is a great deal - i can see the waste companies being annoyed with DCC as they're in competition with them:
http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-waste-and-recycling/bulky-household-waste-collection

UrbanSprawl

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think the law states that it's his responsibility to ensure the person he's paying is licenced/reputable.

speaking of getting rid of rubbish, this is a great deal - i can see the waste companies being annoyed with DCC as they're in competition with them:
http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-waste-and-recycling/bulky-household-waste-collection

The law is an ass so.

magicbastarder

Red Kev wrote: »

Put bin charges in with property tax. Allow people to throw rubbish/junk out free of charge in council tips/recycling areas. Use the polluter pays principle: a bit like the charge that you pay when buying a fridge, it should be applied everywhere and you should be able to dump stuff in council controlled sites.

do you mean a WEEE style charge on any item you buy which could be discarded?

tomasrojo

Red Kev wrote: »

Put bin charges in with property tax. Allow people to throw rubbish/junk out free of charge in council tips/recycling areas. Use the polluter pays principle

You'd have to have no standing charge (really, the standing charge part of the property tax), and then a decent allowance, above which you'd pay high-ish charges. That is, if you want some sort of "polluter pays" principle. I believe this was the model for the water charges that the Green party suggested when in government. But let's not talk about water charges.

I just sawed up a couch to avoid the cost of hiring a van and paying the dump €60. Took four lifts to get rid of the entire couch (though there was enough room each week for domestic waste too), but it was still a LOT cheaper than €100, which would have been roughly my cost to bring the couch to the dump, all told.

CramCycle

Leroy42 wrote: »

I wonder what the actual legal position on this is. Since your firend can prove, by receipt, that he paid someone else to do the job, at what point does he still remain his problem?

Is there a register of approved collectors available for each CC? If not then surely there should be and once you go with an approved collector then the problem moves to them.

My bet would be that the CC just bullied your friend rather than go after the joker than actually caused the mess.

I imagine that quite simply, the people who collected it were not reputable, they probably have a receipt for the tip for that day but most likely only one receipt for the day.

Might be a job for revenue to investigate, I would be suspect that tax is being paid but a hard one to prove if they put a small number through.

neris

you notice it more when your cycling especially when its dumped into ditches especially things like kitchen white goods. I really cant understand the mindset or logic of people who fly tip. Is it meaness, slefishness, lack of pride in their country or county?

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

it was still a LOT cheaper than €100, which would have been roughly my cost to bring the couch to the dump, all told.

you mean bringing it to the dump in one piece, or bringing it in pieces?

magicbastarder

neris wrote: »

you notice it more when your cycling especially when its dumped into ditches especially things like kitchen white goods. I really cant understand the mindset or logic of people who fly tip. Is it meaness, slefishness, lack of pride in their country or county?

people who fly tip electric goods especially are idiots - the WEEE charge has made it just as easy to dispose of legitimately as it is to dump.

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

you mean bringing it to the dump in one piece, or bringing it in pieces?

The dump (or Recycling Centre, as I think it's properly called) has a minimum charge for cars or smaller of €30 per visit (even if you walk there you pay it), so the cheapest option, other than the one I took, would have been to have sawn the couch in half or thirds and brought it to the dump in a car, but I don't own a car, so I'd have to have paid a hire for that too. A small van is €60 per visit, and a larger van is €100 per visit.

There are smaller charges for garden waste and no charge for scrap metal, WEEE, glass, batteries. But general waste costs a bit.

Wishbone Ash

Red Kev wrote: »

Put bin charges in with property tax. Allow people to throw rubbish/junk out free of charge in council tips/recycling areas. Use the polluter pays principle....

But that would be the opposite of the polluter pays principle as households living in similar valued properties would pay the same regardless of the waste they generate or how much recycling they do. I put my black bin out twice per year. Other similar households in my area put theirs out every 2 weeks.

thebiglad

Red Kev wrote: »

Put bin charges in with property tax. Allow people to throw rubbish/junk out free of charge in council tips/recycling areas. Use the polluter pays principle: a bit like the charge that you pay when buying a fridge, it should be applied everywhere and you should be able to dump stuff in council controlled sites.

The above is standard in many countries, it works and it's the only way fly tipping will be stopped.

This is the situation across in England, Council Dumps are free - there is still fly tipping and main reason is that people pay for commercial clearance of their properties but the commercial dumping is not free so they simply fly tip is somewhere.

Free local authority dumps would certainly cut back on some of it but it is not the total solution.

Gazzmonkey

neris wrote: »

you notice it more when your cycling especially when its dumped into ditches especially things like kitchen white goods. I really cant understand the mindset or logic of people who fly tip. Is it meaness, slefishness, lack of pride in their country or county?

They just don't want to pay to have it collected ... and they're scummy hurs

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

The dump (or Recycling Centre, as I think it's properly called) has a minimum charge for cars or smaller of €30 per visit (even if you walk there you pay it).

Ringsend is €15 for a car http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/WaterWasteEnvironment/Waste/Documents/Ringsend%20information%20leaflet%20(PDF).pdf

It's also still possible to call the council's waste department and ask them to run a 'special collection' — they do this on request every now and again in our area, where there are a good few people who don't drive, and everyone puts out old furniture etc; most of it is then picked up by rag-and-bone collectors, and the council picks up the rest.

I'd have limited faith in the app if it goes to fixyourstreet, which seems to be mostly decorative. For a couple of years I put reports of a) local graffiti and b) the terrible state of Leinster Road, where seams and holes between a patchwork quilt of tarmac patches make it really dangerous to cycle down after dark. None of the reports were ever acted on — the graffiti are still in place and Leinster Road is still deadly for the unwary.

The worst place I've ever seen for this nasty selfish dumping is above Gleann na Smól on the road up to the ice cream van place at Killakee.

(Incidentally, is there no scheme to sell tyres for recycling?)

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

Ringsend is €15 for a car http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/WaterWasteEnvironment/Waste/Documents/Ringsend%20information%20leaflet%20(PDF).pdf

That's a lot cheaper. But I had to saw the couch at least in half to get it out of the house (or else move a lot of stuff out of my house and then back in again).

Anyway, the "special collection" makes the case even stronger that there's no need to fly tip.

Wishbone Ash

Chuchote wrote: »

....(Incidentally, is there no scheme to sell tyres for recycling?)

It's the opposite - you have to pay them to recycle tyres.

(The popularity of baled silage had greatly diminished the demand for used tyres. For many years, when silage was stored in pits, used tyres were always in demand from farmers for placing on top of the plastic cover).

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

The dump (or Recycling Centre, as I think it's properly called) has a minimum charge for cars or smaller of €30 per visit

that's insane - i go to one which has an €8 charge for a bootload. though i am driving an octavia, which has a big boot; at 585 litres, which is nearly 2.5times your average black bin, plus there's no weight limit (assuming you're not bringing construction waste).

tomasrojo

It's a lot alright. I find it even weirder that you pay it if you turn up on a bike or on foot -- though to be fair, I could turn up on the bike with something pretty close to what a car could carry.

CramCycle

Chuchote wrote: »

It's also still possible to call the council's waste department and ask them to run a 'special collection' — they do this on request every now and again in our area, where there are a good few people who don't drive, and everyone puts out old furniture etc; most of it is then picked up by rag-and-bone collectors, and the council picks up the rest.

Our estate does this every year but it is not done by the council (who would not do it for us, not in their remit blah blah blah), a few of us stay with it most of the day and make sure it is packed up properly, we get a few people upcycling as well (my mother in law got a lovely plant pot) and our neighbour made garden decorations out of some of the items. We have actually installed our own dog poop bins and 2 people on the estate empty it every week into their household waste bin. They told us if we put up another dog poop bin though they would remove it (take it down, not empty it). One of the walkways out of the estate is destroyed with litter, we asked for a bin as its a throughway for everyone from several estates and they said no. We even offered to empty and pay for it. Still said no.

While the council are responsive, it is painful to get a response out of anyone unless you go through the councillor. They have removed bins, removed dog poop collection sites. Most common sense requests are met with a computer says no response. Thankfully the RA is proactive and the community garda is also very helpful. Someone recently put up very effective "slow down, children at play" signs, which again, the council refused to do.

magicbastarder

this is the place i've used:
http://www.fingal.ie/environment/waste-and-recycling/recycling-centres/

magicbastarder

also, i'm often bemused by the amount of metal you see being put in skips. you can sell scrap metal.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

I'd have limited faith in the app if it goes to fixyourstreet

i've been on to a friend who works in DCC, who tells me that the feed they get is sporadic, certainly not realtime.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Our estate does this every year but it is not done by the council (who would not do it for us, not in their remit blah blah blah)

Interesting. I've rung Dublin City Council perhaps twice in the last five years and requested a 'special collection' and they did it each time; there've been perhaps two more in the same time requested by others. At first, the guy said to me "Why don't you drive it to the dump", and I said that I didn't have a car, nor did lots of my neighbours, and he said "ah, ok then, I'll see what I can do."

…a few of us stay with it most of the day and make sure it is packed up properly, we get a few people upcycling as well (my mother in law got a lovely plant pot) and our neighbour made garden decorations out of some of the items.

Same happens here; it's fun to watch your neighbours prowling and taking the stuff you've put out, and to prowl yourself and take home theirs.

We have actually installed our own dog poop bins and 2 people on the estate empty it every week into their household waste bin

This is fantastic!

They told us if we put up another dog poop bin though they would remove it (take it down, not empty it). One of the walkways out of the estate is destroyed with litter, we asked for a bin as its a throughway for everyone from several estates and they said no. We even offered to empty and pay for it. Still said no.

While the council are responsive, it is painful to get a response out of anyone unless you go through the councillor. They have removed bins, removed dog poop collection sites. Most common sense requests are met with a computer says no response. Thankfully the RA is proactive and the community garda is also very helpful. Someone recently put up very effective "slow down, children at play" signs, which again, the council refused to do.

Dublin City Council has removed bins too; there were two at the end of this road, 100 metres away, and two at the end of the next road, another 100 metres away. All, and many other local bins, have been removed. When I emailed a local councillor about this, after getting no joy from the council, she told me that this was because people put their household waste into the litter bins.

I wonder if I'd get away with putting up a dog waste bin. Doubt it; I planted some geraniums into the earth around my nearby municipal tree and the killer sprayer came along and sprayed them to death.

I wasn't impressed. You remove a public service and replace it by a privatised one, and then when people can't pay for that, you take away another service?