Licence - Father and Son

Tefral

Looking for a bit of information. Was filling out the application for the licence and the part where you register the details of the gun has me confused.

My father is a farmer and i help out on the farm in my spare time. He has a shotgun but we now want to buy a rifle, we have an issue with deer etc so essentially what I want to go do is get a licence in my name to use his shotgun and ill buy the rifle and he can then try get his licence to use my rifle.

In essence he is saving me buying a shotgun and ill be saving him buy a rifle.

Is it possible to do this? The application form appears to only deal with a transfer of ownership.

Any help would be appreciated.

LikeTheseOdds

No experience of this myself but I'm pretty sure; yeah you can be licensed to shoot another persons firearm. I'd imagine you'd fill it out as normal saying you're obtaining it from that person for dual use and the reason for wanting it. Just tick the box saying where it'll be stored if any other place than your home and provide the location on another sheet of paper. There's also a section in certificate details saying if you'll have dual use of the firearm to put in the other persons firearm cert number.

Open to correction on this but I'm fairly certain that's how you'd go about it. If in doubt, give your local firearms officer a ring. I'm sure some of the more experienced posters will be around later to give you a heads up if I'm incorrect. Enjoy the rifle when you get it.

Sparks

That's pretty much how it works; but note that what you'll wind up with is four licences. Two for you, two for him, covering the same two firearms. There's no issue with one firearm being licenced to multiple people; but you'll be paying the full rate on each licence.

ezra_

Sparks wrote: »

That's pretty much how it works; but note that what you'll wind up with is four licences. Two for you, two for him, covering the same two firearms. There's no issue with one firearm being licenced to multiple people; but you'll be paying the full rate on each licence.

as sparks' says. there is a part on the form where it asks if another person has a licence for the firearm and if so, what is their cert number.

Once you fill that out and explain the situation in a letter, you should be fine.

RossiFan08

Tefral wrote: »

Is it possible to do this? The application form appears to only deal with a transfer of ownership.

This is absolutely possible. It has been asked and covered here before.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056242914

So in essence there will be two people, two firearms and four licenses in the house.

Tefral wrote: »

we now want to buy a rifle, we have an issue with deer etc

Just on a broader note I would say you will have a lot of trouble getting a deer legal calibre for you first rifle. Most supers will want you starting on something small like a 22 lr or 17 hmr, possibly a 223 if you are lucky however these are only suitable for rabbit and fox and it is illegal to hunt deer with any of these. On top of this you will benefit so much more learning to shoot rifle with these smaller calibres

As well as the FAC you will need a deer licensee (separate from a firearm license) if you are looking to shoot deer and this requires a deer legal calibre which you will really struggle to get.

I would be amazed if there is not a local lad more than willing to shoot deer for you. If not you would have a queue of lads on here, including myself, more than willing to shoot deer for you and everything would be legal. It would also allow you to get some more experience and knowledge from a lad who has been shooting a while by just talking to them.

German pointer

RossiFan08 wrote:

Just on a broader note I would say you will have a lot of trouble getting a deer legal calibre for you first rifle. Most supers will want you starting on something small like a 22 lr or 17 hmr, possibly a 223 if you are lucky however these are only suitable for rabbit and fox and it is illegal to hunt deer with any of these. On top of this you will benefit so much more learning to shoot rifle with these smaller calibres

Good points about learning to shoot with a smaller caliber however if he has good reason then he should have no problem getting a deer legal rifle as his first rifle. If he needs to shoot deer then he needs a deer legal caliber the super can't tell him go get a 22 or 223 to practice with for a year or so before he gives him a deer caliber as he would not have good reason to get a smaller caliber. He would also have to go to the expense of buying a rifle he neither needs and probably doesn't want. There is no basis in law for a super to tell him get a smaller caliber first while the super might ask an applicant to get a smaller caliber first he can't insist on it.

RossiFan08

German pointer wrote: »

Good points about learning to shoot with a smaller caliber however if he has good reason then he should have no problem getting a deer legal rifle as his first rifle. If he needs to shoot deer then he needs a deer legal caliber the super can't tell him go get a 22 or 223 to practice with for a year or so before he gives him a deer caliber as he would not have good reason to get a smaller caliber. He would also have to go to the expense of buying a rifle he neither needs and probably doesn't want. There is no basis in law for a super to tell him get a smaller caliber first while the super might ask an applicant to get a smaller caliber first he can't insist on it.

I agree with everything you are saying, within the law he could get a deer legal rifle however it still could prove more difficult depending on the super. If the super doesn't like the sound of a lad getting a 243 for his first gun, stuff could get lost or it could be refused as he fears for public safety.

None of this is correct and if someone has a good reason they have a right to get what the want. But some supers are hard to deal with, my older super did not like moderators and many lads had arguments with him in trying to get them but simply gave up as they didn't have time to fight it. I am not saying this will happen to OP but in my opinion it could be harder and take longer to get the larger calibre. This would be my opinion and in situations like this I am much happier to be wrong than right but it is nice to know what you could be up against before you go looking for rifles, find one you like, put a deposit on it and going through licensing it to only find out the super will make it difficult for you to get it

German pointer

I know we are all singing from the same sheet and he could make it difficult but not impossible. The public safety issue would be hard to impose I think as it would be difficulty to give a man say a 223 and then say its a public safety issue and say I'm not giving you a 22.250 or a 243 because its dangerous but it's OK to have a different rifle

Tefral

Thanks for the input gents. I am a member of the local gun club and one of the local lads here i would be friendly with does the firearm competency training and certs so id be well covered that way. I think ill apply to be on my fathers shot gun first and then maybe wait a couple of months and then try apply for the rifle.

Do you think it would be worth my while making an appointment to meet the local superintendent first and talk through my application before i submit it? There's a herd of deer basically rampaging through the farm and one of the other local farmers has said he has spotted two stags in there in a herd of around 10-15 so the population of them wont be long springing up. The top section of the farm is obviously on their route to and from wherever they do be heading.

Cass

I have seen lads getting 308s, to name a few, as their first gun because their reason for wanting it was good enough.

Same applies to you. Go for a deer legal caliber, include the land details/permissions, apply for the deer license (you'll need this before applying for the firearms license), and i see no reason for you to be refused.

Each application is judged on it's own merits and while i agree some people have been refused on poor ground it is not the norm, and should be taken on board, but should not prevent you from applying.

There is no legal time frame on the frequency of applications nor the amount of firearms you can own.

In short go for it. Just know it won't be a quick process. The deer rifle. Between the deer license, and applying it can take up to 3 months. Now this is the permitted amount of time to process an application, but a lot are done before this. Even your shotgun can take this long, but it's a straight enough applciation with no need for extra licenses to support your application.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Tefral

Was out the weekend and met a lad i used to go to school with who is a Guard processing these all the time in a rural station in Limerick. He said pretty much identical to what you said Cass. Theres no reason why i wouldn't be allowed a deer caliber as a first gun.

Thanks lads, i'll proceed on and apply away. I will drop into this forum more often now that i have a reason to.

RossiFan08

Happy to be proven wrong.

A 243 would be a nice gun that is fit for both foxes and deer. If you are looking online make sure you check out the dealers with facebook pages as these are updated more often. Just so happened to get a new scope for my deer rifle from a dealers facebook

turismo2142

I'd be amazed if by now you haven't gotten a bunch of PMs for lads with .308s and itchy fingers offering to help you out.

As has been correctly stated by earlier posters. There is no basis for graduated licensing of firearms. You have to have a good reason to get the gun you want. If it's for deer then you have to start with a large bore CF cartridge and prove to the Super that you're competent to use it.