Formula 1 2016: Round 11 - Hungarian Grand Prix

Harika

BadgeGP has an interesting Top Dog for this race.

http://badgergp.com/top-dog-hungary-3/

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

BadgeGP has an interesting Top Dog for this race.

http://badgergp.com/top-dog-hungary-3/

I understand the decision making process in this case

skipper_G wrote: »

I voted Button for driver of the day
Deserves it for that crap with the radio

Jordan 199

Lewis is the first driver to win five times at the Hungaroring. He won in 2007, 2009, 2012, 2013 and 2016.

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

Rosberg was dreadful today I felt, didn't put Lewis under any sustained pressure whatsoever, despite getting well into DRS range several times.

I don't know that he can really be blamed for that when no one else could do it either. I think he's move against Ricardo was brilliant to get back into second.

This track just doesn't seem very suitable for modern F1. I can only see tracks like this getting worse next year if they increase the downforce.

Myrddin

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

but I don't see how you can be critical of Nico not getting past Lewis and yet be impressed with Kimi who couldn't get past Verstappen even with softer tyres

I'm critical of Nico because he put Lewis under zero pressure yesterday, not because he didn't overtake him - but because he didn't even seem to try. The same can't be said of Kimi, he certainly pushed Max to the limits.

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know that he can really be blamed for that when no one else could do it either. I think he's move against Ricardo was brilliant to get back into second.

As above...no attempt to put Lewis under any sort of pressure, no attempt to force an error from Lewis, and he seemingly accepted his loss very early on. The pass on Ricciardo was good, he just gave up then. Dreadful stuff from someone then leading the championship. Can't imagine Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso etc driving like that.

Spudman_20000

Myrddin wrote: »

I'm critical of Nico because he put Lewis under zero pressure yesterday, not because he didn't overtake him - but because he didn't even seem to try. The same can't be said of Kimi, he certainly pushed Max to the limits.



As above...no attempt to put Lewis under any sort of pressure, no attempt to force an error from Lewis, and he seemingly accepted his loss very early on. The pass on Ricciardo was good, he just gave up then. Dreadful stuff from someone then leading the championship. Can't imagine Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso etc driving like that.

That is true.

I wonder are there now some kind of team orders at play, despite assertions from Toto and Co. to the contrary?

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

As above...no attempt to put Lewis under any sort of pressure, no attempt to force an error from Lewis, and he seemingly accepted his loss very early on.

He did get close a couple of times and even forced two errors near the end. The problem for Mercs seem to be they have a limited time that they can follow closely before they get over heating problems, and they seem to suffer a lot once they get close to the rear of a car, Louis has had the exact same problem when he's following Nico. The two mercs just don't seem to be able to overtake each other when the race is well underway. They have to hold back and make attacks but fall back if they don't work out. Nico couldn't really take to many chances either or he would risk the 1/2 for merc, red bull weren't that far behind, if Nico made an attempt and went wide he could hand 2nd to Ricardo.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

He did get close a couple of times and even forced two errors near the end. The problem for Mercs seem to be they have a limited time that they can follow closely before they get over heating problems, and they seem to suffer a lot once they get close to the rear of a car, Louis has had the exact same problem when he's following Nico. The two mercs just don't seem to be able to overtake each other when the race is well underway. They have to hold back and make attacks but fall back if they don't work out.

Agreed, but it's a rare day when Lewis doesn't give his all to get passed Nico (usually only if Lewis has taken lumps out of his tires after coming from several positions back). The reverse wasn't the case yesterday, & to say Nico played it safe would be an understatement. Again, disappointing from the then championship leader. He got close to Lewis quite a few times, but fell away virtually a lap later each time. Lewis has been able to hang right onto the back of Nico for a lot longer in the past, pushing & pressurizing.

Nico couldn't really take to many chances either or he would risk the 1/2 for merc, red bull weren't that far behind, if Nico made an attempt and went wide he could hand 2nd to Ricardo.

Hardly a champions mindset imo. Logical, & rational, but lacking any gusto.

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

Lewis has been able to hang right onto the back of Nico for a lot longer in the past, pushing & pressurizing.

At that track? If other people had been able to overtake it would be easy to say Nico didn't do enough but I don't remember there being any overtaking done on track outside the first lap.

Hardly a champions mindset imo. Logical, & rational, but lacking any gusto.

Merc were giving their drivers warnings about the 1/2 being at risk towards the end. Given the controversy lately he couldn't really turn around and risk the team win again. They are both going to have to be good boys for the next few races. There must come a time when they have to accept gaining an extra place just isn't worth risking the place you have.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

At that track? If other people had been able to overtake it would be easy to say Nico didn't do enough but I don't remember there being any overtaking done on track outside the first lap.

Max came under serious pressure from Kimi, so while overtaking is difficult, it's certainly possible to try force an error from someone in front - something Nico didn't even try to do. It's possible this relates to your below point...

Merc were giving their drivers warnings about the 1/2 being at risk towards the end. Given the controversy lately he couldn't really turn around and risk the team win again. They are both going to have to be good boys for the next few races. There must come a time when they have to accept gaining an extra place just isn't worth risking the place you have.

...he might just live to regret losing those few points later on in the year, for the sake of being a good boy. As I said, I find it hard to picture Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, etc all being good boys & accepting points losses so easily.

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

Max came under serious pressure from Kimi, so while overtaking is difficult, it's certainly possible to try force an error from someone in front - something Nico didn't even try to do. It's possible this relates to your below point...

It almost cost him his race though. I think Kimi showed that no matter how close you get there's just no place to overtake. I doubt Nico would be pleased to accept 2nd place before the race is over but if there's no way past, there's no way past, all he could do is put Hamilton under pressure and hope he made a mistake that let Nico by.

There's no doubt Hamilton has the edge. I think it's a razors edge though. Hamilton has to do everything absolutely perfect or he'll lose out to Nico. I'd always say Hamilton is good money for the win, but he can't afford to make any mistakes, Nico is just too close to the back of him.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

all he could do is put Hamilton under pressure and hope he made a mistake that let Nico by.

That's precisely my point...he didn't even do this, & that's why I'm critical of him this time around.

There's no doubt Hamilton has the edge. I think it's a razors edge though. Hamilton has to do everything absolutely perfect or he'll lose out to Nico. I'd always say Hamilton is good money for the win, but he can't afford to make any mistakes, Nico is just too close to the back of him.

I'd agree with this. While I don't rate Nico as one of the 'elite' drivers, he's bloody fast, consistent, and ever present. Combine that with the best car on the grid, & Lewis has a team mate that almost can't be gotten rid of. I don't feel Nico reacts particularly well under pressure, and he plays things a little too safe for my liking, but he's a very, very, solid driver; not elite, but very strong.

Myrddin

Have to laugh at this - https://streamable.com/ktf2

Wtf was Gutierrez thinking, absolutely appalling behaviour from him & he cost Lewis a huge chunk of time, allowing Nico right back up into DRS range. It's one thing that consistently bothers me about drivers, ignoring blue flags. I understand why they do it if they're in the thick of their own battle, but this fool was out on his own counting sheep. A five second penalty he got, should have been more I feel.

HighLine

Myrddin wrote: »

Have to laugh at this - https://streamable.com/ktf2

Wtf was Gutierrez thinking, absolutely appalling behaviour from him & he cost Lewis a huge chunk of time, allowing Nico right back up into DRS range. It's one thing that consistently bothers me about drivers, ignoring blue flags. I understand why they do it if they're in the thick of their own battle, but this fool was out on his own counting sheep. A five second penalty he got, should have been more I feel.

Didn't seem to show much remorse here...

https://twitter.com/EstebanGtz/status/757239852094160896

Ghost Train

Not sure I believe this

Hamilton argued his gesture was not a rude one and he was just waving his hand in frustration.

"I lost so much time behind him, and at the same time Nico was catching me, which was really, really tough," he said.

"I may have wanted to do that [middle finger], but I didn't."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125443

LEIN

It's a sad state of affairs when the qually session was better than the race....

Myrddin

HighLine wrote: »

Didn't seem to show much remorse here...

Indeed, though I'd imagine he'd consider blue flags important if he were fighting for a title...

Can't blame Lewis really, I'd say he was fuming at the time.

Mike Litoris

Myrddin wrote: »

Have to laugh at this - https://streamable.com/ktf2

Wtf was Gutierrez thinking, absolutely appalling behaviour from him & he cost Lewis a huge chunk of time, allowing Nico right back up into DRS range. It's one thing that consistently bothers me about drivers, ignoring blue flags. I understand why they do it if they're in the thick of their own battle, but this fool was out on his own counting sheep. A five second penalty he got, should have been more I feel.

I was surprised at that. Guitierrez needs to man up ffs. He's obviously a crazed Lewis hater coming out with that shíte!


Anyways, I fell asleep after about 20 laps and didn't bother watching the highlights after reading here. Last year was a blip.

Charlie-Bravo

Considering the tussle in Silverstone with Lewis and Nico, and how the Hungarian race went, I'm off the impression that the Merc drivers are not allowed to overtake on track. Once the first corner is done, that's it until pitstops. And the leading driver has the call putting it up the the second place driver to try the undercut.

What we need are the two drivers split, and Rosberg was lucky to got back to second place.

Be prepared for a dull latter half of the season at the front because of this!!

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

Have to laugh at this - https://streamable.com/ktf2

I was expecting Rosberg to give him the thumbs up when he passed Gutierrez.

Jordan 199

Myrddin wrote: »

Have to laugh at this - https://streamable.com/ktf2

That reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW1mt2eojRk

CFlat

Murray Walkers reaction is the funniest part of that!

Myrddin

astrofluff wrote: »

Considering the tussle in Silverstone with Lewis and Nico, and how the Hungarian race went, I'm off the impression that the Merc drivers are not allowed to overtake on track. Once the first corner is done, that's it until pitstops. And the leading driver has the call putting it up the the second place driver to try the undercut.

You could well be right. I guess we'll see over the next few races, if they're not pushing each other it'll become apparent there are orders at play. On an average day I'd expect such orders to play into Rosbergs hands, as he's a better starter off the line.

ScumLord wrote: »

I was expecting Rosberg to give him the thumbs up when he passed Gutierrez.

I'd say his inner thumbs up was out and waving

Jordan 199

CFlat wrote: »

Murray Walkers reaction is the funniest part of that!

Murray Walker is brilliant. No other F1 commentator can touch him IMO.

Simon Gruber Says

And related again, my favourite Murray Walker moment

Hamilton was just reminding him what place he was in