Toronto VS Vancouver

Collinsfella

So i'm heading to canada start-mid 2017 i was initially going to head to vancouver not sure why just seemed like a good place to head heard some good things like good transportation,less snow etc but then i heard toronto is a lot cheaper not sure how true that is.

So my question is can anyone tell me the main differences between vancouver and toronto in terms of finding a job even a crappy one that pays decent I have 3 years retail experience worked as a supervisor for a year also,renting,cost of living,food,transportation subway and buses etc, i know toronto has a lot of people so i'm assuming driving would be a nightmare ?

Also if anyone could share there experiences on the social scene making friends , nightlife etc

P.S i know its a lot of questions so thanks in advance

Kev_2012

Collinsfella wrote: »

So i'm heading to canada start-mid 2017 i was initially going to head to vancouver not sure why just seemed like a good place to head heard some good things like good transportation,less snow etc but then i heard toronto is a lot cheaper not sure how true that is.

So my question is can anyone tell me the main differences between vancouver and toronto in terms of finding a job even a crappy one that pays decent I have 3 years retail experience worked as a supervisor for a year also,renting,cost of living,food,transportation subway and buses etc, i know toronto has a lot of people so i'm assuming driving would be a nightmare ?

Also if anyone could share there experiences on the social scene making friends , nightlife etc

P.S i know its a lot of questions so thanks in advance

They are similar in terms of cost. Rent in Vancouver is expensive but I find Dublin more expensive.

Once you get there just start lashing applications into Tim Hortons and McDonalds or wherever to get started.
Wages aren't great in Vancouver for retail staff.
Eating out is cheap, buying food is expensive so go to No Frills or Canadian superstore.
Kitsilano and downtown will be expensive.
Get a place to live near a skytrain line, Canada line is the best as the others break down a lot.
It's $91 for a 1 zone pass for a month (cheap eh?) - 1 Zone will get you all around vancouver. More expensive if you need north van/richmond/surrey/port moody and all those places.
No need to drive there, transit is very good. Insurance is very expensive

Faith

Driving is presumably a nightmare in both. Drivers in Vancouver are the worst I have ever seen. Whether I walk, cycle or drive, I'm nearly hit by a car on a regular basis. Transit is best, but if you need a car, both cities have services like Zipcar and Car2Go which are car-sharing schemes.

Toronto weather is either COLD (like, -10) or HOT and sticky. Winter can easily last into April. Vancouver is much more like Ireland - warmer, milder, rainier. It rains a lot, but it tends to be heavier rain rather than drizzle. Summers are typically dry and pleasantly warm (mid-20's, with a breeze). Snow is rare, but you can drive to the mountains in as little as 30 minutes if you're into winter sports.

Wages are probably marginally higher in Toronto, but I can't confirm that. Rents are likely to be similar. Right now, Vancouver is experiencing a major housing crisis and rents are increasing rapidly. In the more popular Vancouver areas, like downtown or Kitsilano, rents for a 1-bed place are probably $1400-$1600 pm. Two bedrooms are upwards of $2200. East van is cheaper, but the houses are older and obviously you're further from downtown and the beaches. Looking at Craigslist, rental prices in downtown Toronto look the same or more expensive.

Finding a retail job in both cities is likely to be easy. I hear Irish accents in nearly every shop I go to. Minimum wage is ~11/hr. Some places may offer ~$13.

Regarding a social scene, the Irish community in Vancouver is very active and very inclusive. A group called VIBE holds meet ups once a month, and it's a great way to meet people and quickly make a group of friends. I don't know what it's like in Toronto. Vancouver is wryly referred to as "No fun city", which is a bit unfair in my mind. The nightlife is certainly different to Ireland, though. There are less clubs, and most bars are more like restaurants, so you need to be seated and you're usually expected to order food. Many bars close early-ish.

The food scene in Vancouver is great, particularly if you enjoy brunch or Asian food. Sushi is incredibly cheap, and is nearly always great.

Collinsfella

Kev_2012 wrote: »

They are similar in terms of cost. Rent in Vancouver is expensive but I find Dublin more expensive.

Once you get there just start lashing applications into Tim Hortons and McDonalds or wherever to get started.
Wages aren't great in Vancouver for retail staff.
Eating out is cheap, buying food is expensive so go to No Frills or Canadian superstore.
Kitsilano and downtown will be expensive.
Get a place to live near a skytrain line, Canada line is the best as the others break down a lot.
It's $91 for a 1 zone pass for a month (cheap eh?) - 1 Zone will get you all around vancouver. More expensive if you need north van/richmond/surrey/port moody and all those places.
No need to drive there, transit is very good. Insurance is very expensive

I heard some places are a bit weary of hiring the irish incase they just decide to leave out of the blue and go home but im guessing that would be a very small percentage of employers , Any areas you would recommend there's so many that i don't know where to begin ? Thanks for the info did you try get car insurance yourself surely it couldn't be as expensive as ireland bleeding rip off at the moment

Also another reason i was considering toronto heard vancouver is gone crazy in rent prices people could be exaggerating that though

Kev_2012

Collinsfella wrote: »

I heard some places are a bit weary of hiring the irish incase they just decide to leave out of the blue and go home but im guessing that would be a very small percentage of employers , Any areas you would recommend there's so many that i don't know where to begin ? Thanks for the info did you try get car insurance yourself surely it couldn't be as expensive as ireland bleeding rip off at the moment

Also another reason i was considering toronto heard vancouver is gone crazy in rent prices people could be exaggerating that though

Maybe, but I doubt it, the Canadians tend to be very PC about that kind of stuff so I doubt they wouldn't hire you because of that. Well Kitsilano is where a lot of people go but it's dear and there are a lot of "character homes" which are basically sh!t and unmaintained tips. Anywhere in fairview or on the Canada line, so between broadway (9th avenue ) and SW marine drive (70th ave) and cambie st would be a decent area. If you want to be closer to pubs and nightlife then you'll be looking at downtown/kits/main st/commerical drive

A few of my friends have cars. It was about 2k a year! Insurance in ireland is way cheaper but you might get discount there if you bring your no claims bonus. But then again you dont pay motor tax.

Well the rent in Vancouver is expensive but Dublin is crazy at the moment. I'm paying a good bit more here than I did in Van, albeit for a nicer place, but my place in Van was a better location too. electricity etc is cheap there. Don't bother with a TV package, it's crap TV over there, but you will get ripped off for a phone plan.

Tickets for events are always expensive and snowboarding is dear and wages can be crap but that city is something else, has to be experienced.

Also, with regards weather, I found that the rain is lighter than irelands and it's rarely windy. The 3 summers I spent there the weather was savage, and in winter I didn't mind the rain at all. It doesn't get too cold either, no worse than Ireland. Vancouver's weather for me is perfect.

I never got the no fun city thing, the pubs and clubs close at the same time as the pubs and clubs in Ireland. I actually became used to the seated bars and being able to get food all the time. It's nice to be able to get something to eat at 11 pm without leaving the bar!

circular flexing

Renting in Vancouver is particularly bad at the moment, even if you find somewhere I've heard of bidding wars for rentals in the last couple of months (not sure how legal it is). I think finding somewhere to rent in Vancouver is more a case of luck at the moment (or compromise on location/quality).

Car insurance in BC is expensive. You have to get the basic plan through a company called ICBC which is a government corporation. The basic plan is rubbish though, only covers 3rd party fire and theft and $200,000 in 3rd party liability which is no way near enough to cover accidents. You can get add ons for comprehensive through ICBC or 3rd parties. I'm paying just under $2000 a year for a 2015 car. To get your no claims bonus transferred over, you need to get a letter from your insurance companies (not brokers) in Ireland and it has to be in the exact format that ICBC specify. Look it up on their website.

Reputable Rog

Montreal is another option, marginally cheaper than Toronto but a lot more fun than any of the English speaking cities.

Jmd182

Hey, I am moving in Feb 2017 to Toronto. Ive never been to Canada before so can't give.much advice but I've heard that Toronto is better for making friends etc. I know.someone from Vancouver and they said its very cliquey there...(dont know how true) lots of old friends living in Toronto though..but maybe not the friends I would meet up with..moreso aquaintances. I'm hoping to stay in Toronto and get.work in Animation but keep me posted on when youre going etc! Ill be booking my flight in October.

Frank Bullitt

Been in Vancouver for 3 years now. A move to Toronto was on the cards recently for me, but it has since been out on ice.

If you decide on Vancouver, be for a hard job finding somewhere to live. There is a serious housing crisis here right now, the last number I saw was 0.6% vacancy rate for rentals. It's not impossible to find somewhere, but it aint easy, and the prices are getting higher and higher each time.

General things about Van can be expensive, you have to pay for MSP here, car/motorcycle insurance is expensive and there is only ICBC that you can go with for that.

Climate is similar to Ireland, maybe warmer in the summer and it does get very very wet in the winter. It is situated in a rainforest after all.

House prices are similar in both cities, but Toronto is way bigger than Vancouver so prices can be somewhat justified.

If you're into art, culture, nightlife and things like that, I would think long and hard about Vancouver. I miss those a lot, it does help that I have a GF here and I have my motorcycle as well, so getting out of the city is nice to do.

Collinsfella

I said vancouver was my destination but the whole rental issue is putting me off big time be me and a mate heading over so splitting the rent so i guess where we go wouldn't matter to much but i dont want to end up regretting where i choose.... decisions decisions

Collinsfella

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Montreal is another option, marginally cheaper than Toronto but a lot more fun than any of the English speaking cities.

I honestly never really considered montreal didnt even look into it , Have you been or are you there now if so whats it like compared to dublin ?

circular flexing

Gintonious wrote: »

General things about Van can be expensive, you have to pay for MSP here, car/motorcycle insurance is expensive and there is only ICBC that you can go with for that.

To be fair, you have to pay for healthcare in Ontario too, it's just included as part of your state income tax.

http://www.taxtips.ca/ontax/ontariohealthpremium.htm

Most jobs in BC will include MSP Premiums as part of the benefits and some will offer extended healthcare to cover optical and dental.

RichFTW

Collinsfella wrote: »

I said vancouver was my destination but the whole rental issue is putting me off big time be me and a mate heading over so splitting the rent so i guess where we go wouldn't matter to much but i dont want to end up regretting where i choose.... decisions decisions

I was originally going to move to Calgary when first picking a city but found out the rental market was crazy due to a massive flood the year previously. Glad I didn't go there now!

As for Vancouver vrs Toronto. The main points I looked at when deciding where to move was:
- Vancouver is farther away (Is a pain for watching live sports from back home with the time difference plus Toronto is closer when flying home)
- It rains a lot in Vancouver (I hate the rain)
- Reputation of being a bit cold (A bit of speculation but I heard Vancouver is more clicky and less friendlier than other cities)
- Toronto is the Finance capital of Canada (More jobs)
- Live gigs (Most bands play Toronto if they play New York/East Coast so you get to see all the big bands)
- Lifestyle (Toronto is more of a city lifestyle that still has access to outdoor activities but wouldn't be as good as Vancouver if that's your main goal)

Someone who lives in Vancouver can tell you the positives but that's my Torontonian view of the two!

Also it would get a lot colder in the winter in Toronto, even though the last two years have been relatively mild. Might want to consider that if the cold bothers you. Get to go skating though which is a fun once you get used to it.

Collinsfella

RichFTW wrote: »

I was originally going to move to Calgary when first picking a city but found out the rental market was crazy due to a massive flood the year previously. Glad I didn't go there now!

As for Vancouver vrs Toronto. The main points I looked at when deciding where to move was:
- Vancouver is farther away (Is a pain for watching live sports from back home with the time difference plus Toronto is closer when flying home)
- It rains a lot in Vancouver (I hate the rain)
- Reputation of being a bit cold (A bit of speculation but I heard Vancouver is more clicky and less friendlier than other cities)
- Toronto is the Finance capital of Canada (More jobs)
- Live gigs (Most bands play Toronto if they play New York/East Coast so you get to see all the big bands)
- Lifestyle (Toronto is more of a city lifestyle that still has access to outdoor activities but wouldn't be as good as Vancouver if that's your main goal)

Someone who lives in Vancouver can tell you the positives but that's my Torontonian view of the two!

Also it would get a lot colder in the winter in Toronto, even though the last two years have been relatively mild. Might want to consider that if the cold bothers you. Get to go skating though which is a fun once you get used to it.

By what you said toronto sounds like my kind of city plus i always wanted to go new york for work but america are a pain in the ass with visas plus its a rip off so i'm guessing toronto would be the closest thing to it , Since you live in toronto whats with the transportation like i was having a look at it quite confusing or im just stupid haha theres all different passes for different zones etc

Frank Bullitt

circular flexing wrote: »

To be fair, you have to pay for healthcare in Ontario too, it's just included as part of your state income tax.

http://www.taxtips.ca/ontax/ontariohealthpremium.htm

Most jobs in BC will include MSP Premiums as part of the benefits and some will offer extended healthcare to cover optical and dental.

That is true.

Also on the jobs front here, demand for foreign skilled workers is quite high here in BC, partly due to the exodus of skilled workers to Seattle and Portland.

But be prepared to practise patience with potential employers, they do like to take their time.

RichFTW

Collinsfella wrote: »

By what you said toronto sounds like my kind of city plus i always wanted to go new york for work but america are a pain in the ass with visas plus its a rip off so i'm guessing toronto would be the closest thing to it , Since you live in toronto whats with the transportation like i was having a look at it quite confusing or im just stupid haha theres all different passes for different zones etc

Transport is the city is called the TTC. You have two main subway lines going east to west along Bloor Street and another one in a U shape that goes north to south through the financial district. There are two other offshoots but you wouldn't really need them unless going to IKEA or way out east.



Everything in between these subway stops then uses trams or bus routes going north/south or east/west so getting around the city is very easy. Each trip costs $2 so you could go one stop and pay $2 or go from one end of the city to the exact opposite for the same price. You can buy monthly passes for $141.50 for unlimited trips if you use transport a lot.

You're probably getting confused with the GO Train which goes outside the city boundaries to neighboring towns/cities like Missassuaga, Milton, Hamilton etc but does pass through parts of the city. No need to be living that far out in these areas and commuting to Toronto as there are plenty of places to live in the city.

Collinsfella

RichFTW wrote: »

Transport is the city is called the TTC. You have two main subway lines going east to west along Bloor Street and another one in a U shape that goes north to south through the financial district. There are two other offshoots but you wouldn't really need them unless going to IKEA or way out east.



Everything in between these subway stops then uses trams or bus routes going north/south or east/west so getting around the city is very easy. Each trip costs $2 so you could go one stop and pay $2 or go from one end of the city to the exact opposite for the same price. You can buy monthly passes for $141.50 for unlimited trips if you use transport a lot.

You're probably getting confused with the GO Train which goes outside the city boundaries to neighboring towns/cities like Missassuaga, Milton, Hamilton etc but does pass through parts of the city. No need to be living that far out in these areas and commuting to Toronto as there are plenty of places to live in the city.

Yes the whole tram and go train was confusing me , thanks for explanation really helped , Would you be able to recommend any areas to look for a place to rent that would be a ideal location for job hunting as in close enough to downtown dont mind travelling a bit but dont want to be miles away where it takes over a half hour on the subway ? There will be 2 of us trying to keep it cheap as we can but willing to pay around 1200 canadian a month

RichFTW

Collinsfella wrote: »

Yes the whole tram and go train was confusing me , thanks for explanation really helped , Would you be able to recommend any areas to look for a place to rent that would be a ideal location for job hunting as in close enough to downtown dont mind travelling a bit but dont want to be miles away where it takes over a half hour on the subway ? There will be 2 of us trying to keep it cheap as we can but willing to pay around 1200 canadian a month

You won't get any 2 beds even remotely close to downtown for $1200 a month. If you want to stick to that price range, you will have to find some other people and try and get a house with 4+ people at least. Plenty of people come over here on their own so it wouldn't be a problem to find others through the hostels or on the Irish & new facebook page.

30 mins of a commute is pretty good by the way, especially if your job and home are close to the subway or tram lines. At one of the places I worked, most of them commuted at least 1 hour each way and a few of them were over 1.5 to 2 hours!

Collinsfella

RichFTW wrote: »

You won't get any 2 beds even remotely close to downtown for $1200 a month. If you want to stick to that price range, you will have to find some other people and try and get a house with 4+ people at least. Plenty of people come over here on their own so it wouldn't be a problem to find others through the hostels or on the Irish & new facebook page.

30 mins of a commute is pretty good by the way, especially if your job and home are close to the subway or tram lines. At one of the places I worked, most of them commuted at least 1 hour each way and a few of them were over 1.5 to 2 hours!

I guess i underestimated how big canada actually is , Jesus i thought a hour would be quite a lot , Can i ask what area you stayed in or have you any recommendations ?

m.j.w

Gintonious wrote: »

That is true.

Also on the jobs front here, demand for foreign skilled workers is quite high here in BC, partly due to the exodus of skilled workers to Seattle and Portland.

But be prepared to practise patience with potential employers, they do like to take their time.

What sort of workers are going to seattle out of curiosity?

Frank Bullitt

m.j.w wrote: »

What sort of workers are going to seattle out of curiosity?

Quite a lot of software engineers and developers. They are highly sought after in Vancouver but with the cost of living being so high here and the median wages being so low, the appeal to go to the states to earn 6 figures in USD is huge.

My current company are expanding and we are having massive difficulty finding devs.

tazbars

Hey guys! I'm also moving to Canadw in January, my two years are up in Australia and unfortunately I did not get a suitable sponsorship opportunity just wondering what the job situation is like in Vancouver vs Toronto at the moment and how common is it to get sponsored in roles? I'm working in banking currently but open to other avenues! Thanks

experiMental

Gintonious wrote: »

Quite a lot of software engineers and developers. They are highly sought after in Vancouver but with the cost of living being so high here and the median wages being so low, the appeal to go to the states to earn 6 figures in USD is huge.

My current company are expanding and we are having massive difficulty finding devs.

Are the tech jobs in question long-term contract/full-time permanent or part time and short term contract?

I'm going to Vancouver soon myself, on a working holiday visa. Do I need to show reference letters from past employers at immigration interview?

AmyPL

experiMental wrote: »

Are the tech jobs in question long-term contract/full-time permanent or part time and short term contract?

I'm going to Vancouver soon myself, on a working holiday visa. Do I need to show reference letters from past employers at immigration interview?

Not sure what you mean by immigration interview? All you need to get your visa when you land is your POE, proof of insurance, and proof of funds.

Quite a few permanent full time tech jobs around the place- depends on what you're looking for.

tazbars

tazbars wrote: »

Hey guys! I'm also moving to Canadw in January, my two years are up in Australia and unfortunately I did not get a suitable sponsorship opportunity just wondering what the job situation is like in Vancouver vs Toronto at the moment and how common is it to get sponsored in roles? I'm working in banking currently but open to other avenues! Thanks

Toronto is the financial centre of the country so there should be more opportunities in the sector here in theory. In terms of other work, the people I know who have also moved here all got good jobs relatively quickly mainly in tech, insurance another couple in marketing and fitness.

In terms of getting sponsored, I am not really sure how it works in Australia but they have something called Express Entry here which is based on a number of factors like work experience here, quality of your english, your age etc. you are given points and every 2nd Wednesday they do a draw and if you meet the threshold of points you are invited to apply for PR. You can get your company possibly to do something like an LMIA to improve your chances but you dont have to get sponsored per se to stay here long term

RDM_83 again

I'd point out that Toronto is not very high wage in relation to Finance roles from what I know.
In general it actually seems rather high cost of living with poorer wages, I'd be curious what other peoples view on that is.
They are also very into people having in Canada experience even if it's not really relevant, that said I walked into a job easily (I'm not in finance)


Overall I'm not really sure of the city, my long term big city living has only been in Dublin and London both of which seem to have more of a "buzz" but here also a lot calmer and "civilised", that might just be because my social scene is lacking though (it does seem like a lot of the people who enjoy the place arrived with an established group of friends).

Cupcake_Crisis

I've been in Toronto a year now and love it. Spent 3 months in vancouver a few years ago and hated it, it just depends on what you want from the city. I find vancouver tends to attract the more outdoorsy type because of the milder weather.

I'm far better off in Toronto than I was in Dublin. I've been unemployed for about 2 weeks since I got here. I found a nice 2 bed apartment in Cabbage town that costs $1500 a month and is walking distance from Yonge Dundas square (which is cheap, $1200 would barely get you a 1 bed closer to downtown).

Wages vary wildly. If you can find yourself a job in the service industry, the tips will save your life when you're starting out. I have found that what I save in rent I spend in the grocery store, so you need to shop around. Don't bother getting a data plan for your phone. Data is expensive as BALLS here and there's wifi almost everywhere. Data plans can run anywhere from $80pm, as opposed to $15pm for calls and texts.q

I don't find the nightlife all that great, but I don't go out very often either.

hochspitch

I've been reading this thread and just want to see if anyone has more opinions to help me. I was originally planning to move to Vancouver at the end of January with 3 friends but sure enough each one of them bailed for different reasons so I'll be making the move by myself. I don't really care where in Canada I go but it's between Vancouver and Toronto as my favourites.

I'm wondering if people think either city is easier to move to alone. I'm a recent law graduate (degree and masters) but little to no experience actually in the legal field other than college activities. Anyone know which area might be better for getting a job in a law office. Also I know that law in Canada varies per province so if any is particularly easier to grasp? Also I'm blatantly planning to lie on my CV and say I worked in a legal office for a couple months and get a relative as a reference. Do you think I could pull this off or would they check? I doubt they'd look at my P60 or anything over there, right?