FridgeFreezer freezer not cold enough

Toots

Hoping someone can give me some advice here and that I don't need to replace the fridge/freezer!

Basically, as the thread title suggests, the freezer part of my fridge freezer isn't very cold at all. To give you an example, we bought a tub of ice cream and put it in there at about 9pm - it was soft after being in the car on the way home from the shop. I've just taken it out there, almost 6 hours later, and it doesn't feel like it's gotten any harder at all - it's still squishy. There's no option on my freezer to adjust the temperature.

It's an indesit integrated fridge/freezer - one of the full height ones so the fridge is at the top and the freezer is underneath. The thing is the fridge section is working perfectly, so I don't know what to think there. It doesn't need de-frosted, in fact there's barely any frost in it at all, I took out all the drawers and the inside is almost completely clear; another thing that's making me concerned that it's not cold enough.

I've checked the doors and they're definitely closing properly, but I don't know what else to check. Seeing as it's built in, I can't just pull it out and see what it's like behind it. I should add that it's probably about 12 years old at this stage, so would it be a case that it has just reached the end of its life? Is there anything I can do with it myself or would I have to get someone out to look at it? (and would it even be worth doing that?)

The other thing I'm wondering is, if it does need replacing, would it be possible to take off the cupboard door bits, and just stick a non-integrated fridge/freezer into the space it left behind, or would there be ventilation issues? From having a quick look online at Power City & DID, etc, the integrated ones seem to be a lot more expensive and I'm seriously broke right now, so I'd like to keep costs as low as I can.

The Red Ace

is it frost free or regular unit where you could see ice build up in the freezer?what procedure did you do to check the doors were closing fully

Toots

I don't think it's frost free because in the past I've had to de-frost it about once a year to clear frost buildup.

I detached the cabinet doors so that I could see the actual freezer door. Then I felt around the seal to see if I could feel cold escaping, and couldn't feel anything. Then I saw a post on a website saying that if you put a piece of paper in the door and close the door, you shouldn't be able to pull it out if the seals are working, so I tried that and couldn't remove the paper.

air

This is a common symptom displayed by fridge freezers. It's likely that there is a leak in the refrigerant circuit and that refrigerant has been lost as a result. The remaining refrigerant is sufficient to cool the fridge but not to keep the freezer cold. Unfortunately repair is unlikely to be economic.

Toots

Aw crap, I was hoping to avoid that. Do you know could I put a regular fridge freezer in where the old integrated one was, or would there be air flow issues?

air

Well the integrated one would have required air flow also, it will all depend on the relative positions of the condenser coils on your old and new units as well as the specifics of your cabinetry.
Bear in mind also that the newer one may be physically bigger. The energy efficiency improvements in recent years have come simply from thicker insulation rather than some breakthrough in the refrigeration technology. Unfortunately this means thicker walls and doors.

The Red Ace

air,i cant see how the fridge section is ok and the freezer section not holding temp as you suggest due to loss of refrigerant, bar it having two compressors it should have a problem with the fridge section first before the loss of refrigerant backs off to the freezer coils, Toots, by removing the wooden door panels wont tell you how the doors are sealing as the wooden door panel will hit the side wall , the magnetic door seal may not still have reached the fridge frame, simple procedure is open top door and look along the edges of freezer door and see if its sealing, same for top door, cabinet may have moved back a few mm

air

I was under the impression that the freezer coils were the first stage of the evaporator and that the fridge section comes next? So when low on refrigerant there isn't enough cooling capacity to freeze the freezer and it can only keep the whole lot at fridge like temperatures.

Toots

air wrote: »

Well the integrated one would have required air flow also, it will all depend on the relative positions of the condenser coils on your old and new units as well as the specifics of your cabinetry.
Bear in mind also that the newer one may be physically bigger. The energy efficiency improvements in recent years have come simply from thicker insulation rather than some breakthrough in the refrigeration technology. Unfortunately this means thicker walls and doors.

I suppose I'll have to go in to a store with measurements and see, especially need to check if the door would open.

The Red Ace wrote: »

air,i cant see how the fridge section is ok and the freezer section not holding temp as you suggest due to loss of refrigerant, bar it having two compressors it should have a problem with the fridge section first before the loss of refrigerant backs off to the freezer coils, Toots, by removing the wooden door panels wont tell you how the doors are sealing as the wooden door panel will hit the side wall , the magnetic door seal may not still have reached the fridge frame, simple procedure is open top door and look along the edges of freezer door and see if its sealing, same for top door, cabinet may have moved back a few mm

I took the cabinet doors off completely yesterday, so that I could test and see if the freezer worked any better with them off (in case, as you suggest, the cabinet had shifted a bit and the wooden doors were stopping the seals making full contact) I checked along the edges of the freezer door while the fridge was open, and it's definitely sealing. However, it's now just over 24 hours later and the ice-cream is still soft

I'm not sure what the story is with the compressors, but I do notice that if I have the fridge open for any length of time - like if I'm putting away shopping into it - the compressor kicks in, but this doesn't happen with the freezer. Not sure if that's relevant or not.

air

The sensor for the compressor is in the fridge which is why it comes on when you open the doors. There is often no sensor in the freezer compartment.

FreshCoffee

If it's a frost free fridge freezer then you might have a look at this eSpares video to get an understanding of how it works (The unit in the video is a side-by-side fridge freezer but the principles are the same):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=duTWh83nVdA

Generally these units have only one compressor so if the freezer temperature is compromised then it's likely the fridge temperature is also compromised. It's very unlikely to be a coolant leak. If you open the back panel per the video and the evaporator is badly frosted over then it's likely to be a problem with the heater / sensors / controller. All are generally available as spares. If you are uncomfortable with that level of debugging then it's best to get it serviced. Have a look at:
www.indesit.ie/appliances_i/assistance.do

PS An Indesit model number would help?

Toots

FreshCoffee wrote: »

If it's a frost free fridge freezer then you might have a look at this eSpares video to get an understanding of how it works (The unit in the video is a side-by-side fridge freezer but the principles are the same):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=duTWh83nVdA

Just had a watch of that there, mine's definitely not a frost-free one - no removable panels or drain. There are drawers in it, and all the shelves are those metal cooling pipes and they used to get all covered in frost, so I'd usually have to defrost it about once a year.

Generally these units have only one compressor so if the freezer temperature is compromised then it's likely the fridge temperature is also compromised. It's very unlikely to be a coolant leak. If you open the back panel per the video and the evaporator is badly frosted over then it's likely to be a problem with the heater / sensors / controller. All are generally available as spares. If you are uncomfortable with that level of debugging then it's best to get it serviced. Have a look at:
www.indesit.ie/appliances_i/assistance.do

PS An Indesit model number would help?

I've checked on every visible part of the fridge and there's no sign of any sort of model number. I bet it's probably on the back, which would mean I'd have to take the cabinet surround apart and try to pull it out. That'd be a 2 man job though, just with the size of the fridge there's no way I'd be able to do that on my own. I don't have a manual for it either, it was the one that came with my apartment when I bought it, so it's over 10 years old at this stage.

Post a couple of pictures of it, someone might recognise the make & model.

FreshCoffee

Non-frost free fridge freezers are generally simpler in operation. Some have one compressor and some have two. The only problems I have ever found with them is faulty thermostats which are fairly easily procured and replaced.

The model number is always inside the fridge compartment, perhaps it's fallen off and been lost but that's very unlikely.
This suggests it might be behind the salad drawer:
www.indesitservice.co.uk/appliances/fridge-freezers/find-your-model-number/

Are you sure the fridge is cold enough? Have you a thermometer to check? Can you hear the fridge compressor turning on and off periodically? If so and the freezer is warm then it probably has it's own compressor controlled by it's own thermostat (which is probably faulty). I changed a freezer thermostat in an old Zanussi fridge freezer recently and it was necessary to pull the fridge freezer out and get at the back of it as the freezer section thermostat is not for adjustment like the fridge thermostat so it's not located in the freezer compartment.

Toots

Thanks Fresh Coffee, I pulled out the drawers and there wasn't a sticker, however there was a mark that makes me think there definitely used to be some sort of sticker there, so I poked around a bit and there's a bit of trim on the front between the the fridge and freezer. I unscrewed this, and there was the sticker! I've no idea who decided to put it there, or why, it must have been done by the previous owners of the apartment.

Anyhoo the model number is INC265AI

And as of this morning, I'm starting to think the fridge section is on the way out. A few days ago when this "heat wave" started, I turned the temp down in the fridge, so in previous years when I've done this, it's been super cold when we open the door and take stuff out. I had a bowl of cereal this morning, and I would describe the milk as being 'slightly chilled' as opposed to cold. It wasn't room temperature, but it definitely wasn't cold like milk just out of the fridge usually is.

FreshCoffee

(I composed a long reply in the Quick Reply box, clicked 'Post Quick Reply' which strangely brought me to a Boards login screen, I logged in and my reply was gone!! What a horrible system!! I'll try and summarise again)

If both fridge and freezer are warming then it's probably a single compressor unit and 9 times out of 10 I would suspect the thermostat (located in the fridge).

This video will give you an idea of what's involved chenging it:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=srKnZXNQ8CM

You can read more here:
www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/spare-parts/254-fridge-and-freezer-spare-parts/2946-fridge-a-freezer-thermostats

It's probably a VT9 equivalent thermostat but I would recommend removing the old one first and checking the numbers on it. I have bought them on eBay for about €15 - 20 and never had a problem.

If you are handy electrically you can test if it's the thermostat by shorting the leads out of the thermostat to the compressor, plugging it in, the compressor should run continuously and everything should get nice and cold. (I never bother, it's always been the thermostat in my case).

BTW here's the manual:
http://imagebank.indesitcompany.co.uk/brochures_online/pdf/indesit/Refrigeration/INC265AI_04289601.pdf

Toots

Oh my god, it's just the worst when that happens. I remember doing an incredibly detailed one about mortgages, had all sorts of links and quotes and then that happened - I nearly cried. Now when I've to post something long and effort-requiring, I always do 'go advanced' just in case!

Those espares fellas must be putting handymen out of business :pac:

TBH, I'm becoming handier in recent years, but not sure I'd be comfortable shorting out the thermostat myself - with my track record I'd somehow manage to burn the building down in the process.

In other, not so good news, I was out of the house since about 3 pm, got back at 1am, the fridge has gotten noticeably warmer, milk not quite room temp, but not far off. I've had to chuck out the few bits of food that were in there because it was chicken and sausages, and I wouldn't like to take a chance with them. Freezer is now the same temp as the fridge, so everything in there has melted. The tub of ice cream I mentioned in my OP was somehow put back in on it's side, and is now liquid and has leaked everywhere. :mad:

FreshCoffee

Your spare time seems limited so maybe get a service person out?
Otherwise I should have mentioned (if you are in/near Dublin) if you take the thermostat out (about 15 mins) you could bring it to the Spares Centre in North Frederick St and ask for a replacement? I would suspect it's a VT9 equivalent so they should stock them. However they are over twice as expensive as eBay!
http://spareparts.ie/shop/shop/Thermostats.283

The Red Ace

Seeing as you say the temp has risen in the fridge if the compressor motor is still running it is not a faulty stat, if you can hear a watery gushing type sound coming from within the fridge it would indicate a refrigerant loss but as to how temp rise has shown up in reverse in the two parts of the cabinet is very unusual unless the freezer section is controlled by solenoid valve which is a bit like the old units that had two compressors and stats that were independent of each other. if no sound at all from motor it may be the stat but it could also be an open circuit thermal protector in the compressor, not really great signs at this stage.

Toots

Hey guys, just wanted to give an update on how this all ended :pac: I ended up booking a call-out to get someone out to have a look. They told me the fridge would need to be accessible - ie: out of the cabinet for the engineer to look at - so I took my little boy out for a while and my husband got to work on taking the fridge out. I got a call from him a few hours later saying "Cancel the repair job, we're getting a new fridge" I've no idea what caused this, but when he pulled the fridge out, the back of it and the cabinet were all scorched. I don't know whether or not what caused it would be repairable, but the scorch marks were bad enough that we were concerned about it being a fire hazard.

The hubby found a brochure thing online that showed the minimum dimensions for what cabinet size should be used for that fridge, and it turns out that the one in our apartment is below the minimum depth recommended. I'm not sure if that had any bearing on what happened with our fridge, but it was interesting to note.

In anyhoo, we took advantage of the DID summer sale and got a good bargain on a non-integrated fridge/freezer which fitted in to the cabinet perfectly and isn't as deep as the old one, so there's plenty of room at the back.

Thanks a million for everyone's help on this!

byte

What make and model did you get to fit the space?

Toots

We got a Zanussi ZRB23200XA