Subleasing

freyners

Hi All

Looking for some guidance with subleasing. Recently secured a house with an additional bedroom. Myself and two others are the named tenants on the proposed lease and the landlord has said verbally he is happy for us to sub-let the additional room

the wording in the proposed lease is slightly weird though. It looks like he has adapted a no-subletting clause to allow us to let to one other person, which is the spirit of what he told us but I'm concerned about the wording

not to assign, sublet, share or part with the possession of the whole or part of the property other than the agreement that a 4th tenant may be acquired

I'm not looking for legal advice but would appreciate any advice about whether the above is ok?

Also the information ive seen around sub-leasees isnt consistent where I've looked. Does a sub-leasee have the rights of a tenant or a licensee? Do we have to furnish them with a separate contract or a copy of the original we sign with the landlord? We want to do this right for all parties so best to start out knowing as much as possible and I've always found this forum helpful that way

Graham

Offering the additional room on a licensee basis is probably the easiest (and most common) option. The new person doesn't really acquire any long-term rights.

It's probably worth agreeing things like deposit/return of deposit, notice periods etc up-front.

Mrs OBumble

Graham wrote: »

The new person doesn't really acquire any long-term rights.

Not quite true.

After 6 months, they have the right to ask to be added to the lease. If they request this, then they get the same tenancy rights and responsibilities as the rest of you.

Due to ignorance, and because it's a double-edged sword (they get responsibilities too) many people in this situation don't ask. But some do.

IMHO this is a handy way to try out a potential housemate while not giving them any rights - but it means that you do need to kick them out (gently of course!) before six months if you don't want to be stuck long term with them.

freyners

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not quite true.

After 6 months, they have the right to ask to be added to the lease. If they request this, then they get the same tenancy rights and responsibilities as the rest of you.

Due to ignorance, and because it's a double-edged sword (they get responsibilities too) many people in this situation don't ask. But some do.

IMHO this is a handy way to try out a potential housemate while not giving them any rights - but it means that you do need to kick them out (gently of course!) before six months if you don't want to be stuck long term with them.

Thanks for the advice!

Question, is the request made between potential housemate and the landlord or what would be the existing tenants duties in such a scenario beyond giving them the landlords contact details?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not quite true.

After 6 months, they have the right to ask to be added to the lease. If they request this, then they get the same tenancy rights and responsibilities as the rest of you.

Due to ignorance, and because it's a double-edged sword (they get responsibilities too) many people in this situation don't ask. But some do.

IMHO this is a handy way to try out a potential housemate while not giving them any rights - but it means that you do need to kick them out (gently of course!) before six months if you don't want to be stuck long term with them.

I don't see how they can ask to be added to the lease. A home owner renting a room and a lease holder renting a room are the same thing, the people they rent to are both licensees. A person renting a room from a home owner can't ask for diddly squat after 6 months so why can someone renting a room from a lease holder?

Also if they can ask, just say no you can't either leave or stay a licensee.

Graham

Mauricio Miniature Beagle wrote: »

I don't see how they can ask to be added to the lease. A home owner renting a room and a lease holder renting a room are the same thing, the people they rent to are both licensees. A person renting a room from a home owner can't ask for diddly squat after 6 months so why can someone renting a room from a lease holder?

Also if they can ask, just say no you can't either leave or stay a licensee.

It appears to be a specific scenario covered by section 50 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/50/enacted/en/html

whomitconcerns

Graham wrote: »

It appears to be a specific scenario covered by section 50 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/50/enacted/en/html

Nope that entire section you state refers to tenants. This is a licensee situation. No tenancy exists. Law doesn't apply

alias no.9

not to assign, sublet, share or part with the possession of the whole or part of the property other than the agreement that a 4th tenant may be acquired

Check with the owner or a solicitor but this reads to me that if you find another person, they'd be added to the lease as a tenant, the same as the rest of you rather than any license arrangement.

whomitconcerns

alias no.9 wrote: »

Check with the owner or a solicitor but this reads to me that if you find another person, they'd be added to the lease as a tenant, the same as the rest of you rather than any license arrangement.

That's a good point! LL may not get the distinction or may. Check with Ll again and discuss or you could get bitten in the ass!

Graham

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Nope that entire section you state refers to tenants. This is a licensee situation. No tenancy exists. Law doesn't apply

Are you sure? Apart from the fact the landlord has already referred to the additional person as a tenant, section 50 specifically mentions licensees of tenants:

(7) A person who is lawfully in occupation of the dwelling concerned as a licensee of the tenant or the multiple tenants, as the case may be, during the subsistence of a Part 4 tenancy may request the landlord of the dwelling to allow him or her to become a tenant of the dwelling.

(8) The landlord may not unreasonably refuse to accede to such a request

whomitconcerns

Wow....that definitely makes it more interesting! Sorry didn't see that bit!

Boater123

Thanks for that Graham and Mrs O'Bumble.... never knew that.