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TDF Stage 20 146.5km Megève-Morzine-Avoriaz

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    #122
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Sam bennett 'wins' the Lantern Rouge by 16 mins (barring disasters tomorrow)


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    #123
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,660 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Shorter stages
    No point getting rid of radios or power data or whatever, the teams will simply find ways around it. No radios, then have extra team support along the route to give out the info.

    No power data, there is enough stats out there to enable pretty good approximations to be made. Wouldn't be real time but be able to check every KM or whatever.

    Smaller teams is the only real option. It would reduce the ability of a team like Sky from having almost separate support teams for Alps and pyrenees, and cyclists should only be allowed to drop out for an injury or the like, not just to prepare for some other race.

    They should also look at the US sports style of budget cap on salaries. You can hire as many cyclists as you want but only to a certain amount. You can pick maybe 3 to go above the max level (superstar) but only one of them can race at any GT or classic. More teams, more stable squads, supporters can get behind a team for a whole season.

    UCI should then give out prizes based on the best overall team across the year so enable those teams that do it best to flourish, but still within the confines of the wage cap, which they can invest in better PR etc.


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    #124
    Burial.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭Burial.


    Steeper climbs
    Just ban power meters. There's only a certain amount of science bullsh*t that should be allowed in a sport, and especially in the actual race. I'm sure everyone will agree that when it's just lads competing off instinct and throwing everything at it that it creates the best moments and is the making of an athlete...that goes for Cycling, Boxing, Football, Basketball, GAA, Rugby etc. etc. You don't see a boxer checking a wristband that gauges his heart rate or calories burned mid fight in order to conserve himself. Being able to judge one's effort and know when to pour it on and when to conserve what is left is a skill and it should be valued, not be replaced by a computer device and have it do all the work for you. In terms of training, I have no problem to them as technology can help athletes of all kinds reach higher standards but in the real thing they should be banned. Cycling is becoming more robotic as more technology leaches deeper and it basically gives a massive 'f*ck you' to the lads with racing IQ and a brain who rely on instinct and feel first, and the computer second.


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    #125
    IllBeGrand
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭IllBeGrand


    The genuinely exciting part of the Tour for me is Bardet getting 2nd. Hanging in there for 3 weeks then having a really heroic day. Today he didn't even seem to have one team mate on the last climb while Froome was surrounded by 4 or 5.


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    #126
    StevieGriff
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭StevieGriff


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Ettix had duel ambitions with Kittel and Dan you'd think and alaphilippe seemed to have carte blanche at times to do whatever he wanted.

    Its up to other teams to ensure their lead guy has at least 2/3 people he can depend on each day.

    To be fair Alaphillipe was about as useful to Dan as a fart in a spacesuit.
    Dan doesn't have a serious chance at GC in the tour with Etixx and their half hearted GC attempts. Everyday in interviews he thanked "the lads", never saw more one rider with him when he needed it the most.


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    #127
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    2 stages per day
    retalivity wrote: »
    Sam bennett 'wins' the Lantern Rouge by 16 mins (barring disasters tomorrow)

    Does the 'winner' actually win anything,.apart from infamy?


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    #128
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Shorter stages
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Does the 'winner' actually win anything,.apart from infamy?

    No, there is no actual award or prize for it.


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    #129
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,660 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Shorter stages
    Burial. wrote: »
    Just ban power meters. There's only a certain amount of science bullsh*t that should be allowed in a sport, and especially in the actual race. I'm sure everyone will agree that when it's just lads competing off instinct and throwing everything at it that it creates the best moments and is the making of an athlete...that goes for Cycling, Boxing, Football, Basketball, GAA, Rugby etc. etc. You don't see a boxer checking a wristband that gauges his heart rate or calories burned mid fight in order to conserve himself. Being able to judge one's effort and know when to pour it on and when to conserve what is left is a skill and it should be valued, not be replaced by a computer device and have it do all the work for you. In terms of training, I have no problem to them as technology can help athletes of all kinds reach higher standards but in the real thing they should be banned. Cycling is becoming more robotic as more technology leaches deeper and it basically gives a massive 'f*ck you' to the lads with racing IQ and a brain who rely on instinct and feel first, and the computer second.

    But then don't you have to ban HRM, cycling computers, watches? I mean, if they are allowed in training (and they realistically cannot be banned) then they will know the times etc that relate to certain power. At the end of the day there really is nothing to stop other teams from beating Sky, except that of course Sky do it better than other teams. Take away the OM and SKy would simply be better at whatever replaced it.

    Even with no measurements, Sky have 4/5 in support of Froome at the key points, that is why attacks are brought back. Froome can sit on his teammates wheels to be helped to close any gap before he launches his own attack and the other teams are simply left with no back up options.


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    #130
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    I think too much is being made of technology and its influence.

    Bottom line Froome is miles ahead of everyone else.

    Beats them in the TT, on the hills and on the descent.

    Hopefully another talent will come through to match Froome. That is all it will take and nobody will give a damn then as you will have a real battle.

    Kudos to those first finishers today. The speed they were doing descending was something else especially with the flow of water on the road.
    I don't think a narrow wheel has issues with aquaplaning but the slighest bit of mud or go onto a verge and they were goosed.

    Interesting how the commentators mentioned some guys just couldn't descend.
    Either nerve or technique?


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    #131
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    RobFowl wrote: »
    No, there is no actual award or prize for it.

    According to Letour website award is €8,000 same as a stage win.
    Piece about how a Chinese rider got it after giving big support to Kettel to win 4 stages one year but came last in GC.

    I only read it there now as had never heard of the grey jersey.


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    #132
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Shorter stages
    Leroy42 wrote: »
    No point getting rid of radios or power data or whatever, the teams will simply find ways around it. No radios, then have extra team support along the route to give out the info.

    No power data, there is enough stats out there to enable pretty good approximations to be made. Wouldn't be real time but be able to check every KM or whatever.

    Smaller teams is the only real option. It would reduce the ability of a team like Sky from having almost separate support teams for Alps and pyrenees, and cyclists should only be allowed to drop out for an injury or the like, not just to prepare for some other race.

    They should also look at the US sports style of budget cap on salaries. You can hire as many cyclists as you want but only to a certain amount. You can pick maybe 3 to go above the max level (superstar) but only one of them can race at any GT or classic. More teams, more stable squads, supporters can get behind a team for a whole season.

    UCI should then give out prizes based on the best overall team across the year so enable those teams that do it best to flourish, but still within the confines of the wage cap, which they can invest in better PR etc.

    With wireless technology, they will have messages relayed to their cycle computer. You'd have to ban that too.


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    #133
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    2 stages per day
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    I think too much is being made of technology and its influence.

    I don't agree. Constant feedback of the pace a competitor is pushing in a break, the pace you need to prevent a break, who's in a break etc. All this feeds into how a competitor races and they know they can sit back and relax without having to shadow a rival.

    Picture the scene in the Matrix where the agent disconnect himself from it and all hell broke loose.


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    #134
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Shorter stages
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    According to Letour website award is €8,000 same as a stage win.

    Are you sure, I think you are mistaken? there is no grey jersey btw, if you mean green thats for the points classification.

    Rules and prize money is listed here

    http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2016/us/sporting-stakes-rules.html


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    #135
    Pudsy33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,785 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    No radio communications between riders and cars
    StevieGriff wrote: »
    To be fair Alaphillipe was about as useful to Dan as a fart in a spacesuit.
    Dan doesn't have a serious chance at GC in the tour with Etixx and their half hearted GC attempts. Everyday in interviews he thanked "the lads", never saw more one rider with him when he needed it the most.

    I don't think having men with you on the climbs is much use, unless you're drilling it like Sky or Astana. Etixx kept Dan safe and well positioned, much better then Garmindale ever did. That said I'd like them to send Verona and some other climbers to the Vuelta to support Martin.


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    #136
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Are you sure, I think you are mistaken? there is no grey jersey btw, if you mean green thats for the points classification.

    Rules and prize money is listed here

    http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2016/us/sporting-stakes-rules.html

    http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2015/us/pre-race/news/ahc/lanterne-rouge-set-to-shine-on-the-podium.html

    The above link is where I read it.


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    #137
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Shorter stages
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2015/us/pre-race/news/ahc/lanterne-rouge-set-to-shine-on-the-podium.html

    The above link is where I read it.

    First that 2015 not 2016 and if it was there last year its certainly not this.


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    #138
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Whether or not he gets any money out of it, it is kind of prestigious, and he will get invited to criteriums, etc. because of it.


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    #139
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Steeper climbs
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2015/us/pre-race/news/ahc/lanterne-rouge-set-to-shine-on-the-podium.html

    O.K. I'll bite.
    If you go into above link, and click on classifications, it shows, who's wearing each jersey. There is no wearer of the "grey Jersey"

    Was this some kind of p1ss take?


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    #140
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,761 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Eamonnator wrote: »
    O.K. I'll bite.
    If you go into above link, and click on classifications, it shows, who's wearing each jersey. There is no wearer of the "grey Jersey"

    Was this some kind of p1ss take?

    It was released on April first


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    #141
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Steeper climbs
    doh

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnaeIAEp2pU


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    #142
    TheBlaaMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭TheBlaaMan


    Kelderman's chute crash.......ouch
    (just for Lusky....)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGKm9uzLiqY&feature=youtu.be


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    #143
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    TheBlaaMan wrote: »
    Kelderman's chute.......ouch

    https://youtu.be/iGKm9uzLiqY

    "Chute"? Come on. Bidon I can just about cope with, but this is a bit much! It's crash!


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    #144
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    TheBlaaMan wrote: »
    Kelderman's chute crash.......ouch
    (just for Lusky....)

    Thanks for posting the video. I had read this morning that he had crashed. That video really gives you an idea of how wet it was.

    I was quite confused yesterday when Kelderman arrived at the finish line not far behind Kreuziger, but yet he was cycling so gingerly that he looked to be on the way for the Sunday paper :pac:

    He must have made up a good chunk of time on the Izagirre/Pantano/Nibali group either very near the summit of the Joux Plane, or on the descent because before his crash he was wasn't too far behind Nibali and Alaphilippe.

    Looking at the stage classification, Kelderman was credited with the same time as Alaphilippe.


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    #145
    Raymzor
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭Raymzor


    The team budgets tell the story! Sky budget nearly double Astana/ Movistar. Cycling needs a very large investor to fund a team to compete with Sky in the Tour.
    No one seems to be interested in doing this as Sky can't "control" Giro and Vuelta in same way. What do you think!


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    #146
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    retalivity wrote: »
    Whether or not he gets any money out of it, it is kind of prestigious, and he will get invited to criteriums, etc. because of it.

    Bennett says he hasnt been asked to any yet. He got invited last year even when he didnt finish


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