Not happy with bespoke Hat.. have I any rights?

sporina

So, got a "Milliner"/hat maker to make a fascinator for me.. Gave her a pic of a fascinator to replicate - 8 pics in total..

She finished the fascinator - I picked it up from a premises she operates out of but she does not work there - I had a look at it - was in two minds about it - but left the money and it was only when i brought it home I realised how it was nothing like what I had asked for - no structure - It looked a mess on my head..

So I called her - told her and she went mad at me - I kept my cool - said I asked if she could replicate what was in the pics - she said she could, but did not.

Eventually she calmed down = offered money back or to make it again..

I accepted the offer to remake..

Picked it up today and its still wrong..

I rang her and she said she will amend..

I wanted to tell her to just keep it and refund me but tbh I was scared,,,

I can see she put a lot of work in, but its not what I asked for.. and I know now, that even on the 3rd attempt I wont get as requested..

What do I do? In an ideal world, I would prefer her to keep it and just refund me.. but I am scared of the confrontation after the last time..

Grr lesson learnt - as she meets me in a random shop - not her own premises - its not very professional..

Cheaper but I am getting what I paid for - a pain and not the product..

I would rather go without at this stage,..

but if I ask for my money back on the grounds that she did not produce what I asked for, do I have rights? As she does not seem to be registered - I do not even have a receipt

thanks

2RockMountain

I don't think it's fair to have a go at her for 'not having her own premises'. If that was an issue for you, you should have checked it out before you placed the order. Her workshop is probably not geared up or insured to take clients, so she has an arrangement with a local shop instead.

In terms of the quality, you really need to tell her what you want. She might rant and rave, but that's her issue. If you want a refund, ask for it, or else you can't complain about not getting a refund.

Wesser

Why don't you put up a picture of the hat alongside a picture if what you wanted and we will collectively let you know if you should complain a third time it not.

vicwatson

Oh just converse and work it out. Jesus

sporina

i didn't have a go at her for having her own premises.. I was just wondering if that would be an issue if she refuses to refund me and i need to take it further

@vicwatson - like i said, I told her i was unhappy initially and she accused me of insulting her etc.. she verbally lascerated me.. made me feel like i was unreasonable.. I had to be very diplomatic in order for her to come around..

@wesser - I will send her the pics you suggested - would feel bad about putting them up here.. but believe me that are not the same..

You see, I know that she has spent time on this but at the end of the day, I am not getting what I asked for... but I guess a part of me feels bad.. grr,.. but she is taking it as an insult..

anyway, if I ask for a refund and she refuses.. what are my rights? That is my reason for posting this..

thanks

vicwatson

No rights to a refund if the hat is fit for purpose, but it sounds like its not, dont be bullied, consumer laws are on your side

sporina

vicwatson wrote: »

No rights to a refund if the hat is fit for purpose, but it sounds like its not, dont be bullied, consumer laws are on your side

thanks..

but who do i go to about this? I only know her first name and telephone number.. no address or anything..

just thinking - I assume she is not paying tax on her little biz - would that be a fair assumption?

PopTarts

She's offered you a refund before, what makes you think she won't this time.

Before coming on here ranting and questioning if she's paying tax as a way to I presume threaten her just talk to her like adults do.

2RockMountain

sporina wrote: »

i didn't have a go at her for having her own premises.

Grr lesson learnt - as she meets me in a random shop - not her own premises - its not very professional..

sporina

what's with some poster's smart attitude on here?
I somehow thought that this forum would be professionals or people working in the relevant sector sharing information, as oppose to random opinions..

thanks to those who have posted in a civil manner,,

listermint

If you weren't happy why on earth did you take it home both times.?

Genuinely, or did it come home and you got a second opinion and that's where the issue is.


Perhaps the hat style isn't for you?

sporina

listermint wrote: »

If you weren't happy why on earth did you take it home both times.?

Genuinely, or did it come home and you got a second opinion and that's where the issue is.


Perhaps the hat style isn't for you?

The first time i was in two minds.. the 2nd time, i called her before leaving the hsop and she told me to take it with her as she wants to meet in the eve and this shop won't be open..

I just want to know where I stand from a legal point of view on this - I thought that as this is a consumer issues forum, someone might be able to tell me..

I will have to look elsewhere I guess as I am not getting any concrete information here..

just googled there and there is a consumer help agency - will give them a call tomorrow..

intheclouds

sporina wrote: »

thanks..

but who do i go to about this? I only know her first name and telephone number.. no address or anything..

just thinking - I assume she is not paying tax on her little biz - would that be a fair assumption?

If you are willing to do business with someone for whom you only have a first name and phone number, no address and you are dubious about her tax affairs then it seems bizarre to me that you are expecting a professional standard.

Regardless of her tax affairs, (which didn't bother you til things went wrong), you paid for work, you took the product produced, complained, was offered a refund, refused it, and took another example of the work, which you are still not happy with. Now you are saying you are scared of her? Why on earth did you continue to have her make and remake the item?

She has now made you 3 fascinators?

What are you expecting from ConsumerConnect? You don't have consumer rights for "I didn't like it". If an item isn't fit for purpose a retailer is obliged to offer Repair, Replace or Refund. It sounds to me like you have been offered all 3 of these? You refused the refund. What more do you expect to be done?

listermint

sporina wrote: »

The first time i was in two minds.. the 2nd time, i called her before leaving the hsop and she told me to take it with her as she wants to meet in the eve and this shop won't be open..

I just want to know where I stand from a legal point of view on this - I thought that as this is a consumer issues forum, someone might be able to tell me..

I will have to look elsewhere I guess as I am not getting any concrete information here..

just googled there and there is a consumer help agency - will give them a call tomorrow..

Legal what? What are you after.

Just ask for a refund and move on.

I'm actually not sure what you want people to say... Sue her?

You haven't actually taken any advice merely acted pissed off when it wasn't the advice you wanted.

Answer me this, why have you not asked for a refund?

And moved on with your life.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Ok, legally, it's a "change of mind". You bought the goods and subsequently decided you didn't like them. It's no different to picking and trying on a dress in a shop and going back the next day because you subsequently decided you didn't want it. The goods were not faulty; just not what you wanted having agreed to the purchase. Your error was in taking the thing at the beginning rather than refusing it as not what you were looking for.
Consumer affairs people may tell you have recourse but not if you put it as you did here. She offered to try to meet your expectations when you came back to her but that was goodwill on her part.

Her tax affairs etc are red herrings.

2RockMountain

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

Ok, legally, it's a "change of mind"..

Not necessarily. If the item did not match the target design, it was not 'fit for purpose', which would make it the seller's problem.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

2RockMountain wrote: »

Not necessarily. If the item did not match the target design, it was not 'fit for purpose', which would make it the seller's problem.

No. The OP accepted the goods and subsequently charged her mind. It is fit for purpose. It goes on a head - it operates as a 'hat' should. You can't clutch at straws like that with the consumer laws.

2RockMountain

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

No. The OP accepted the goods and subsequently charged her mind. It is fit for purpose. It goes on a head - it operates as a 'hat' should. You can't clutch at straws like that with the consumer laws.

A hat is more than just a functional item. Could the milliner have handed over a baseball bat and said 'there you go'. There was a particular design specified, and it may well be that the design specified was not delivered. Yes, there may be an issue about her originally accepting the piece, but it may well be that the buyer was not able to judge the design in the shop for whatever reason.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

2RockMountain wrote: »

A hat is more than just a functional item. Could the milliner have handed over a baseball bat and said 'there you go'. There was a particular design specified, and it may well be that the design specified was not delivered. Yes, there may be an issue about her originally accepting the piece, but it may well be that the buyer was not able to judge the design in the shop for whatever reason.

You are determined to ignore the facts.

Of course she couldn't hand over a baseball bat, or even a baseball hat, because the OP would have refused it. She accepted the goods unconditionally. You simply cannot bypass that basic and overriding fact of the matter in hand.

I'd love to see you have to actually stand over your opinion of the law on this one. It's easy telling somebody to take a line like that when you don't have to stand over your advice.

sporina

ok - some of the posts on here are helpful - some hilarious...

too many to quote..

in brief"

1. i have never had anything bespoke made before so this was a new situation for me


2. Tax etc? Do you seriously think I was thinking about that when I started out on this? No I was not.

3. Who ever said its a hat - etc.. thats just funny = I gave her 8 pics = of the specific ha i wanted - she said she could make it..

4. The reason I took the hat and paid was because I was in two minds = It was only when I brought it home and tried it on proper that I realised how wrong it was...

5. I felt bad as she made it especially for me - spent time on it - I wanted to give her a chance to correct it..

6. I know now its a dead duck so I am preparing for asking for a refund.

7. I asked for a hat - not all this drama - and yes do not like the idea of a confrontation with her - as I said, she obliterated me when I contacted her about the first hat.. but she knew she was out of order as she then backed down (but it too much diplomacy on my behalf).

8. This thread is becoming a bit like my situation with her.. I just want to know, if I ask for another refund.. even though she has made 3 alterations, am I still entitled to it? I do not want a drama with her.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

No. 4 clinched it legally. So, No.8 is a no - no entitlement.

But, look, that's my opinion based on experience and training. Talk to her as you'd never know.

2RockMountain

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

You are determined to ignore the facts.

Of course she couldn't hand over a baseball bat, or even a baseball hat, because the OP would have refused it. She accepted the goods unconditionally. You simply cannot bypass that basic and overriding fact of the matter in hand.

I'd love to see you have to actually stand over your opinion of the law on this one. It's easy telling somebody to take a line like that when you don't have to stand over your advice.

So if you drive your car away from the garage, and then notice a fault later, have you lost ALL your consumer rights because you 'accepted the goods unconditionally'?

Sorry, but that's nonsense. You don't lose your rights when you accept goods or handover payment. Your rights to a product that is fit for purpose still stand.

sporina wrote: »

I just want to know, if I ask for another refund.. even though she has made 3 alterations, am I still entitled to it? I do not want a drama with her.

Anyone who gives you an absolute yes or no answer to this is talking through their ass. It really comes down to whether she delivered a product that matched your specification or not. No-one here can tell you whether the product matched your specification. You need to make your own decision on this.

If you believe she didn't match your specification, you can ask for a refund or repair, at her discretion. Your concern about her already having taken two goes to repair are valid, and there will come a point when you are justified in saying 'no further repair - I want a refund'.

memorystick

First world problems.

intheclouds

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

No. 4 clinched it legally. So, No.8 is a no - no entitlement.

But, look, that's my opinion based on experience and training. Talk to her as you'd never know.

No. You can find a fault in an item after you bring it home. Bringing it home doesn't invalidate your rights.

However, it's subjective with a hat. Is it a "broken" hat or does the OP just not like it?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

2RockMountain wrote: »

So if you drive your car away from the garage, and then notice a fault later, have you lost ALL your consumer rights because you 'accepted the goods unconditionally'?

Sorry, but that's nonsense. You don't lose your rights when you accept goods or handover payment. Your rights to a product that is fit for purpose still stand.


Anyone who gives you an absolute yes or no answer to this is talking through their ass. It really comes down to whether she delivered a product that matched your specification or not. No-one here can tell you whether the product matched your specification. You need to make your own decision on this.

If you believe she didn't match your specification, you can ask for a refund or repair, at her discretion. Your concern about her already having taken two goes to repair are valid, and there will come a point when you are justified in saying 'no further repair - I want a refund'.

For the last time, as this is getting silly, it was not faulty as a headpiece while your car has a clear FAULT for a car. She just decided afterwards that she did not like it as it wasn't close to what she was looking for. You can't demand a refund if the shoes don't match the dress when you get home.

Look, argue all you like. I'm not repeating myself and arguing over inappropriate comparisons.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

intheclouds wrote: »

No. You can find a fault in an item after you bring it home. Bringing it home doesn't invalidate your rights.

However, it's subjective with a hat. Is it a "broken" hat or does the OP just not like it?

It boils down to not liking it when she got home. It was not a 'mechanical' or functional fault. It was not a piece of clothing with faulty stitching. It's a style and design issue and that is so different in law.

athtrasna

If you gave her eight pictures, were you looking for a copy? If so there may be copyright issues with an exact copy so maybe she was putting her twist on it?

intheclouds

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

It boils down to not liking it when she got home. It was not a 'mechanical' or functional fault. It was not a piece of clothing with faulty stitching. It's a style and design issue and that is so different in law.

Well the OP says it collapsed on her head and had no structure. So that sounds like a functional problem to me.

rubadub

athtrasna wrote: »

If you gave her eight pictures, were you looking for a copy? If so there may be copyright issues with an exact copy so maybe she was putting her twist on it?

doesn't sound like it.

sporina wrote: »

3. Who ever said its a hat - etc.. thats just funny = I gave her 8 pics = of the specific ha i wanted - she said she could make it.

If there was any issue about it being a copy I would expect it to have been stated then.

2RockMountain

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

For the last time, as this is getting silly, it was not faulty as a headpiece while your car has a clear FAULT for a car. She just decided afterwards that she did not like it as it wasn't close to what she was looking for. You can't demand a refund if the shoes don't match the dress when you get home.

Look, argue all you like. I'm not repeating myself and arguing over inappropriate comparisons.

No, but you can demand a refund if you notice a fault in the shoes at home that you didn't notice in the store.

Fernando Putrid Second wrote: »

It boils down to not liking it when she got home. It was not a 'mechanical' or functional fault. It was not a piece of clothing with faulty stitching. It's a style and design issue and that is so different in law.

What law distinguishes between design and function in consumer goods?

rock22

2RockMountain wrote: »

No, but you can demand a refund if you notice a fault in the shoes at home that you didn't notice in the store.

What law distinguishes between design and function in consumer goods?

Why do you keep posting about faulty goods?