Star Trek: Discovery - Pre-release discussion [** NO SPOILERS **]

Myrddin

knucklehead6 wrote: »

JJ-verse, and go back to treks roots,

That's the problem with the JJ-verse, it threw Treks roots right our the window, into an oncoming truck laden with explosive chemicals, and the end result was shall we say, well, awful.

Myrddin

degrassinoel wrote: »

Dunno, i think it's something that everyone kind of wanted to see more of, since the undiscovered country showed Sulu captaining her. I'd forgotten that ship had transwarp drive and Voyager's Tuvoc was Sulu's suckup junior science officer

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wasn't the transwarp idea abandoned before Excelsior entered "production" status and she just had standard warp drive

As far as I remember, she was never tested with transwarp...& given the tech still hadn't been functional over a century later, it's safe to assume it wouldn't have worked anyway. That said, the Excelsior is a gorgeous ship...there's a real sense of scale about it.

knucklehead6

Myrddin wrote: »

That's the problem with the JJ-verse, it threw Treks roots right our the window, into an oncoming truck laden with explosive chemicals, and the end result was shall we say, well, awful.

A feature film was only ever going to do that. For it to make money it's GOT TO be about the explosions and amazing effects and a bit of a story line plugged into it.

A lot of people have said that the JJ-Verse films are actually not bad as films, it's just when we try to associate them with Star Trek that we get all screwyfaced.

So what should be happening is that the people associated with this new series should be trying to take back Trek, bring the JJ-verse back in line with what we know and love, but with infinite possibilities that don't fcuk with an established canon timeline.

Instead what'll happen with the new series is that it'll be shoehorned in between TUC and TNG, and the ship (probably a new class that we've never seen before) will look 20000 times more modern that 1701-D in Encounter at Farpoint and it just WON'T FIT!!

Myrddin

knucklehead6 wrote: »

A lot of people have said that the JJ-Verse films are actually not bad as films, it's just when we try to associate them with Star Trek that we get all screwyfaced.

I'd agree with them; as far as generic, shiny, meaningless action films go, they fit in fine with the rest of that genre. Star Trek was never about dumb action films though, and even most of the films got that right (even the bad ones). The JJ films were fine for dumb action films, but ten minutes after walking outta the cinema they're forgotten about. For many, myself included, they're really not Star Trek - short of the central characters (most of whom I praise), there was nothing at all in it.

The opening scene was actually the best bit of the film (Kirk's dad sacrificing himself to save everyone), but after that...cadets becoming Captains overnight, beaming people from across quadrants, red matter, awful, just bloody awful. I realise the film was a reboot, but when you stray that far off course, it can't be considered a reboot (not where Star Trek is concerned, as the little details can be so important).

So what should be happening is that the people associated with this new series should be trying to take back Trek, bring the JJ-verse back in line with what we know and love, but with infinite possibilities that don't fcuk with an established canon timeline.

This makes sense to a point, but when you consider red matter, cadets becoming Captains overnight, beaming across quadrants, and all the stuff introduced in the JJ universe, they've burned out a lot of the possibilities already. They've geon from TOS to post Nemesis levels of technology overnight, much like Kirk went from Cadet to Captain overnight. It was all about the movies, and for me, left little room for tv.

Instead what'll happen with the new series is that it'll be shoehorned in between TUC and TNG, and the ship (probably a new class that we've never seen before) will look 20000 times more modern that 1701-D in Encounter at Farpoint and it just WON'T FIT!!

I think in the hands of Meyer, we can be optimistic. He's one of those responsible for bringing Trek from TOS to the TWoK era and beyond, which is where it shone for a long time. Also, with Rick Berman nowhere near this, that's another huge reason to be optimistic. I think they'll get this one right...it mightn't ever reach the heights of TNG or DS9 again, but I think it can be good again.

knucklehead6

Myrddin wrote: »

big long post, not gonna quote it

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally speaking i think the Prime universe should be locked down and never to be interfered with again.

Or if You ABSOLUTELY have to then do it Post redmatter, Post the destruction of Romulus, Post the Dominion War... But not in between already established era's.

Myrddin

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Or if You ABSOLUTELY have to then do it Post redmatter, Post the destruction of Romulus, Post the Dominion War... But not in between already established era's.

That is something I'm with you on, I'm not all that gone on the idea of a prequel show. However, the anthology thing mentioned in the interview did interest me, so it might only be the Excelsior era for the first season.

H3llR4iser

knucklehead6 wrote: »

...
Or if You ABSOLUTELY have to then do it Post redmatter, Post the destruction of Romulus, Post the Dominion War... But not in between already established era's.

My point as well - putting a series between established periods is like trying to build a giant skyscraper in between already existing buildings; There isn't much you can do, and the space for the foundations will eventually limit the building goiung upwards as well.

Also, the "destruction of Romulus" is another unforgivable sin of JJTrek: historically, Star Trek has featured two other superpowers other than the Federation - the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire. We've seen plenty of the Klingons, which were initially shaped to be the Soviet Union equivalent in the show; We've seen very little of the Romulans - they evolved through the TNG era to become a Roman-Empire-Themed (although the backstory is that they came in contact with the Romans and influenced their style) equivalent to the Federation, with similar technology levels and military might, and with a curious love-hate relationship between the two.

There was room for a lot of very interesting storylines, maybe even an entire series focused on the Romulans...and what JJTrek does? Destroys the Romulans, of course (and puts some totally bogus ones in the movie).

Greyjoy

knucklehead6 wrote: »

A feature film was only ever going to do that. For it to make money it's GOT TO be about the explosions and amazing effects and a bit of a story line plugged into it.

A lot of people have said that the JJ-Verse films are actually not bad as films, it's just when we try to associate them with Star Trek that we get all screwyfaced.

So what should be happening is that the people associated with this new series should be trying to take back Trek, bring the JJ-verse back in line with what we know and love, but with infinite possibilities that don't fcuk with an established canon timeline.!

I think this would just end up disappointing both sets of fans. Those who enjoyed the whizz-bang explosions of the movies are going to be bored by a the slower-paced style of the older tv series and the fans of the 'prime' timeline will be turned off by the jj-verse.

I would also disagree that the JJ films are not bad taken on their own as films. The first reboot is fine but even setting aside any Trek canon issues 'Into Darkness' was one of the worst written sci-fi films I've seen in recent memory.

_Kaiser_

H3llR4iser wrote: »

My point as well - putting a series between established periods is like trying to build a giant skyscraper in between already existing buildings; There isn't much you can do, and the space for the foundations will eventually limit the building goiung upwards as well.

Also, the "destruction of Romulus" is another unforgivable sin of JJTrek: historically, Star Trek has featured two other superpowers other than the Federation - the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire. We've seen plenty of the Klingons, which were initially shaped to be the Soviet Union equivalent in the show; We've seen very little of the Romulans - they evolved through the TNG era to become a Roman-Empire-Themed (although the backstory is that they came in contact with the Romans and influenced their style) equivalent to the Federation, with similar technology levels and military might, and with a curious love-hate relationship between the two.

There was room for a lot of very interesting storylines, maybe even an entire series focused on the Romulans...and what JJTrek does? Destroys the Romulans, of course (and puts some totally bogus ones in the movie).

You could address that in one of the new seasons though ... somehow the Federation learns of what happened in the original timeline, and somehow manages to avert it thus saving the Romulans (and perhaps bringing them into the fold as full allies) and neatly also erasing the mess that is JJ Trek (don't forget they destroyed Vulcan as well for kicks!)

Myrddin

Personally I don't consider the JJ-verse as canon Trek, & so the stupidly ridiculous and pointless destruction of Romulus never happened.

degrassinoel

I think it was Meyer that said something recently like

Star Trek can be seen as an old glass bottle, and when someone new comes along to pour some new liquid into that bottle, it's fine it still fits, it's still Star Trek but then you have Zachary Quinto playing spock and beating the shít out of someone, that changes the shape of the bottle. It's no longer trek.

I cant find the interview atm, but he was right.

I'm not saying the new ST films are ****e, i enjoyed them but they weren't trek.

Kiith

I don't think they could do a show based on the current JJ-verse. Even from a tech point of view, like getting from Earth to Qo'nos in 20 mins? Transporting from across massive distances to ships in warp? Transporting from Earth to Qo'nos with a portable transporter? How can you build a show with any sense of scope when you can get anywhere pretty much instantly.

That doesn't mean they won't try it, but the old prime universe would be much better.

AtomicHorror

Myrddin wrote: »

Personally I don't consider the JJ-verse as canon Trek, & so the stupidly ridiculous and pointless destruction of Romulus never happened.

I'm not so sure, I think it would be interesting to explore the prime universe post the collapse of the Romulan Empire. Probably give it some breathing room though- a few decades after Nemesis.

Consider the politics- much as we saw after the Praxis disaster, there'd be massive pressure on the Romulan remnant to appease or even join the Federation for their own survival. They were already warming to them after they ousted Shinzon- so perhaps it's not a hard sell. The Klingons are unlikely to favour that idea though. That sets up some nice tension.

What about the Klingons themselves? Further advancement towards integration with the Federation? ISIS-style Anti-Romulan/Federation splinter groups?

How has AI progressed? Have the holograms and the Soong-types asserted themselves more? Are they with the Federation, or striking out on their own? What does it mean to be an organic when a whole race of synthetic beings is out there doing everything you can do?

I think post-Nemesis may have history, but so did TNG and it found ways to free itself from that. What really kills a show is knowing the future. Enterprise suffered from that. So I don't much like the idea of something set between ENT and TNG- that seems like an even more restrictive canvass than ENT had.

Optimus Prime

Im not mad on an anthology show myself, i mean the only way i can see that being done is if they put some sort of time travel backbone to it, tying together the different century's or something? I dont really think they will do one season here and one season there without something binding. I wouldn't be mad on that myself.

I also hope they dont set it in the movie universe, im with myrrdin on this. the films are fine as standalones, but they are not the star trek i love. Its ridiculous some of the stuff they pulled off in that.

id like to see the show post TNG or something fresh, not anthologys based in timelines we have already seen, i think the trek universe feels small because of the amount of years we have spent there, but in reality we have only seen a small part of the possibility's that are out there to be explored in it. They need to get back to basics with it and concentrate on what made it great in the first place.

Cantstandsya

I think it should be set post DS9/Voyager.

I think the whole red matter/Romulus destruction thing should just be completely ignored. Don't even retcon them, just totally ignore them, treat those events as though they never happened.

Put the Abrams movies in their own box and move on. Fans of Trek will be thankful that the two have been separated and fans of the Abrams-verse... well there are none of those so who cares?

Myrddin

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Consider the politics- much as we saw after the Praxis disaster, there'd be massive pressure on the Romulan remnant to appease or even join the Federation for their own survival. They were already warming to them after they ousted Shinzon- so perhaps it's not a hard sell. The Klingons are unlikely to favour that idea though. That sets up some nice tension.

This was already done with Praxis though, we've been there before. I'd prefer to see a Romulan/Federation alliance born from diplomacy & progress, as opposed to the Romulans being essentially forced into it to survive. Destroying Romulus in the prime universe, for a film set in an alternate universe, was an utterly stupid thing to do, & was ALWAYS going to piss fans off.

What about the Klingons themselves? Further advancement towards integration with the Federation? ISIS-style Anti-Romulan/Federation splinter groups?

Possibly, but Enterprise already did the whole 'small rebel factions' thing & it got old pretty quick.

How has AI progressed? Have the holograms and the Soong-types asserted themselves more? Are they with the Federation, or striking out on their own? What does it mean to be an organic when a whole race of synthetic beings is out there doing everything you can do?

The issue of sentient holograms is definitely one to explore. Hopefully they've done away with the holodekcs! (no more holodeck episodes, yay)

I think post-Nemesis may have history, but so did TNG and it found ways to free itself from that. What really kills a show is knowing the future. Enterprise suffered from that. So I don't much like the idea of something set between ENT and TNG- that seems like an even more restrictive canvass than ENT had.

Agreed, but give me a post-Nemesis show every single time, over a JJ-verse show. I honestly don't consider those films canon.

The_Valeyard

Sure I am just happy Trek is coming back. Been too long. Only so many re-runs and fan films to keep a guy going!

degrassinoel

degrassinoel wrote: »

I think it was Meyer that said something recently like

Star Trek can be seen as an old glass bottle, and when someone new comes along to pour some new liquid into that bottle, it's fine it still fits, it's still Star Trek but then you have Zachary Quinto playing spock and beating the shít out of someone, that changes the shape of the bottle. It's no longer trek.

I cant find the interview atm, but he was right.

I'm not saying the new ST films are ****e, i enjoyed them but they weren't trek.

yeah, there's the quote

I think, and I’ve made this analogy before, that Star Trek is a bottle into which different vintages can be poured. I made a lot of changes because I used to say, 'why are they all wearing pyjamas?' But I didn’t think I changed the characters. I thought Kirk and Spock and those people were who they were. And the biggest thing that shocked me about J.J. was Spock beating the **** out of somebody, and thinking, 'No, that’s changing the shape of the bottle'."

from http://www.newstalk.com/The-latest-on-Star-Treks--return-to-TV
and http://www.craveonline.com/site/771077-nicholas-meyer-think-j-j-abrams-star-trek

AtomicHorror

Myrddin wrote: »

This was already done with Praxis though, we've been there before. I'd prefer to see a Romulan/Federation alliance born from diplomacy & progress, as opposed to the Romulans being essentially forced into it to survive. Destroying Romulus in the prime universe, for a film set in an alternate universe, was an utterly stupid thing to do, & was ALWAYS going to piss fans off.

Granted, the Praxis thing was done- and explored for 1 (excellent) film. I think the themes of mass migration, culture war, xenophobia and extremism could make for a lot more story telling than 1 film, and they've never been so relevant.

Myrddin wrote: »

Possibly, but Enterprise already did the whole 'small rebel factions' thing & it got old pretty quick.

Well I'm think more of a schism between a Klingon Empire and a Klingon Republic. Nothing small about it.

Myrddin wrote: »

The issue of sentient holograms is definitely one to explore. Hopefully they've done away with the holodekcs! (no more holodeck episodes, yay)

On this we agree fully! No wait, let's put a holodeck in the holodeck, so just when they think the holodeck episode is over BAM they're still in a holodeck multi-episode arc. The framing story for my holodeck in holodeck script will be Commander Riker watching a holodeck simulation of what it might be like in the future if they can put a holodeck inside a holodeck. Which itself will be framed by a story about Troi's trust issues with Riker leading her to run a holodeck simulation of what Riker was running a simulation of last night.

Where was I? Oh yes, AIs- should be a big deal in any post-Nemesis Trek.

Myrddin wrote: »

Agreed, but give me a post-Nemesis show every single time, over a JJ-verse show. I honestly don't consider those films canon.

If it weren't for the presence of Nimoy Spock, I probably wouldn't either.

Myrddin

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Granted, the Praxis thing was done- and explored for 1 (excellent) film. I think the themes of mass migration, culture war, xenophobia and extremism could make for a lot more story telling than 1 film, and they've never been so relevant.

While Romulus is the homeworld of the Romulan people, to think it's destruction would lead to the end of their way of life isn't realistic, & nor was it with Praxis. These are huge sprawling empires, and while I accept there might be a severe political impact (assuming an entire senate etc are wiped out), I think there'd be enough regional governing in place to ensure control is quickly regained. Same with Praxis, being a "key energy production facility" that en entire empire depended upon, was a large plot hole.

If it weren't for the presence of Nimoy Spock, I probably wouldn't either.

For me he's one of the many parallel Spocks (ala the TNG episode Parallels), not the prime Spock.

MarkAnthony

Return of the TWOK uniforms ftw!

AtomicHorror

Myrddin wrote: »

While Romulus is the homeworld of the Romulan people, to think it's destruction would lead to the end of their way of life isn't realistic, & nor was it with Praxis. These are huge sprawling empires, and while I accept there might be a severe political impact (assuming an entire senate etc are wiped out), I think there'd be enough regional governing in place to ensure control is quickly regained. Same with Praxis, being a "key energy production facility" that en entire empire depended upon, was a large plot hole.

For Praxis, I agree- though I felt perhaps that Praxis was implied to be a symptom of pre-existing governance/economic rot rather than the cause of the crisis itself (Spock mentions the Klingon economy is screwed). It was also stated that the ecological disaster explosion caused on Qo'noS itself was a major factor. So, maybe it was a final straw rather than the root cause.

The destruction of Romulus I think is very different, and would be more akin to the Italy vanishing from the Roman Empire. I think that would have been crippling.

Myrddin wrote: »

For me he's one of the many parallel Spocks (ala the TNG episode Parallels), not the prime Spock.

That's a fine justification, though a TV show is not going to be able to explain that easily. It would just retcon Romulus' destruction and perhaps imply Spock was alive somewhere (or died in the prime universe). Seems like it would be simpler to let the continuity stand, than to do this and require the writers to either explain it outside the story to fans or try to crowbar it into the script somewhere.

It would also explicitly de-canonize JJ Trek, which I suspect is what you're more interested in, but I don't see the writers of the new show going out of their way to do that if they don't feel they have to.

Myrddin

Fine points

The_Valeyard

Doesn't this mean no Borg, no ferengi?

Myrddin

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Doesn't this mean no Borg, no ferengi?

Enterprise shoehorned the Borg in very well actually, but dear god they really pushed the boat out shoehorning in the Ferengi. Good points though, and it already shows some of the limitations of a prequel series

degrassinoel

Myrddin wrote: »

Enterprise shoehorned the Borg in very well actually, but dear god they really pushed the boat out shoehorning in the Ferengi. Good points though, and it already shows some of the limitations of a prequel series

having Neelix's actor as one of them made it all the worse too

AtomicHorror

degrassinoel wrote: »

having Neelix's actor as one of them made it all the worse too

I'd say they'll all come crawling out of the woodwork for winky cameos again if they get the chance.

degrassinoel

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I'd say they'll all come crawling out of the woodwork for winky cameos again if they get the chance.

One of the last few episodes of TNG had DS9's Cassidy Yates in as Worf's human brother's (Paul Sorvino)alien wife.. that was a mouthful - But yeah, like a minute worth of screentime and about 5 lines but easily identifiable.

There's loads of them too, like Weyoun, Shran, Brunt and the billion other small parts that the talented Jeffrey Combs played.

Same for Damar from DS9, he was in one of the Xindi episodes captaining his own exploration ship (weird not seeing him with a spoonhead). there's also been a few incantations of Dukat as other cardassian people in TNG.

Seems to be very cliquey, but most of those people are really enjoyable onscreen and generally have a good deal of charisma and really distinctive voices to throw around for whatever character they're playing. I just detest Neelix

Antibac

degrassinoel wrote: »

One of the last few episodes of TNG had DS9's Cassidy Yates in as Worf's human brother's (Paul Sorvino)alien wife.. that was a mouthful - But yeah, like a minute worth of screentime and about 5 lines but easily identifiable.

There's loads of them too, like Weyoun, Shran, Brunt and the billion other small parts that the talented Jeffrey Combs played.

Same for Damar from DS9, he was in one of the Xindi episodes captaining his own exploration ship (weird not seeing him with a spoonhead). there's also been a few incantations of Dukat as other cardassian people in TNG.

Seems to be very cliquey, but most of those people are really enjoyable onscreen and generally have a good deal of charisma and really distinctive voices to throw around for whatever character they're playing. I just detest Neelix

There's loads that weren't successful in audition such as Eric Menyk (The Traveller) originally was in the last 2-3 for Data and Chase Masterson (Leeta) was up for Jake Sisko's first Girlfriend Marda. Kasidy didn't appear till season 3 of DS9 so they probably like what they saw here and kept her in mind for Kasidy

degrassinoel

funny ye should mention that, i just read that Combs auditioned for Will Riker and was turned down in favour of Frakes

Oh, and it was Frakes that brought Combs into the fold in DS9, with a small bitpart, they clearly liked him as he's been on every series since DS9, even Voyager

knucklehead6

Myrddin wrote: »

Enterprise shoehorned the Borg in very well actually, but dear god they really pushed the boat out shoehorning in the Ferengi. Good points though, and it already shows some of the limitations of a prequel series

The enterprise Borg episodes were totally plausible. Well plausible in a Sci Fi way, a natural follow on from the events of FC.

bajer101

I'm loving how people are starting to talk about real Trek trivia :-) It's a sign that we are all excited about this and are looking forward to it.

Antar Bolaeisk

bajer101 wrote: »

I'm loving how people are starting to talk about real Trek trivia :-) It's a sign that we are all excited about this and are looking forward to it.

For comparison's sake have a look around for the thread on the new film coming out in a couple of months.

TheRealPONeill

why

Kiith

Weyoun was written specifically for Combs, as they liked him so much. He played it absolutely perfectly as well, and Weyoun was a great character.

degrassinoel

was just thinking, If Axanar is in legal trouble atm and the new series is due next year, and with the hints at when this new trek is taking place, it could actually be Garth of Izar, that or it's taking place in that exact timeline

AMKC

Very quite in here of late so I done a bit of snopping and found this

http://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2016/04/25/new-star-trek-series-start-filming-september/

Hope its true.

also

http://www.startrek.com/article/khan-directors-edition-coming-to-blu-ray

A classic should look awesome on blu-ray.

Anyone else come across any interesting news or articles lately.

Sonics2k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE

The hype is so very real. Rumours have been stating the series will be placed between Star Trek VI and The Next Generation.

I honestly cannot wait.

Agent Coulson

FutureGuy

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The fact they say "new crews" and not "new crew" puts further weight behind an anthology

GhostMutt30

Oh dear now I'm very excited

syklops

Sonics2k wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE

The hype is so very real. Rumours have been stating the series will be placed between Star Trek VI and The Next Generation.

I honestly cannot wait.

For the first few seconds of that trailer, I thought it was a trailer for a spoof. Voice over guy in voice over mode, grand music, I was honestly expecting to hear a pop and then Kermit the Frog would appear in a starfleet uniform.

Don't get me wrong Im excited about a new trek series, but that so called trailer was so OTT it was like how they upsell comedy and spoof movies. There was a trailer for Garfield which took the piss out of Spider-man which came out around the same time which was like this.

TheIrishGrover

Combs was so great on DS9. I can't remember the name of the Ferengi character he played but I loved that, in one episode, he played both characters and the credits at the start just said: Jeffrey Combs as Wayoun. Jeffrey Combs as "What's-his-name"

As for the new series regarding this whole multiple timeline thing: I didn't look back through this thread but just wondering if someone brought up the whole temporal war thing from enterprise. Could have one crew shortly after enterprise timeline and one after next gen time and cross contamination of both timelines.
I would prefer an anthology series (With a very central story arc covering them all) but just wondering if they were thinking down that temporal war path (I hope not).

Possibly it's following that whole secret agency group from DS9 (Sector something-or-other) over years and years as they fight against a single thus-far-top secret enemy.

MarkAnthony

It rather conveniently rhymed with c... :pac:

AtomicHorror

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Heroes and villains. Comic book morality.

I am feeling less optimistic.

H3llR4iser

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Heroes and villains. Comic book morality.

I am feeling less optimistic.

Well, they need to cater for today's, how to say, less-mentally-engaged average TV audience, especially stateside (remember, the ones who can't find the US on a world map), so I suspect it will inevitably be a bit more "black & white" morally speaking, than the incarnations of the past. You actually see this more or less anywhere in ultra-mainstream media...

I mean, we live in an era where "movie critics" can't understand the concept of "flashback" and write vitriol-filled pieces about the "speceship from the beginning of the movie disappearing and never being menitoned again" when reviewing Batman Vs. Superman...

FutureGuy

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Heroes and villains. Comic book morality.

I am feeling less optimistic.

This trailer is keeping the general audience in mind.

Apparently there are easter eggs hidden in the trailer. One person suggests that the first planet symbolises Praxis and the star represents Veridian III from STVI and Generations, respectively which hints at the time of the piece. Think it's a bit wishywashy myself - anyone else spot anything?

AtomicHorror

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Well, they need to cater for today's, how to say, less-mentally-engaged average TV audience, especially stateside (remember, the ones who can't find the US on a world map), so I suspect it will inevitably be a bit more "black & white" morally speaking, than the incarnations of the past. You actually see this more or less anywhere in ultra-mainstream media...

I mean, we live in an era where "movie critics" can't understand the concept of "flashback" and write vitriol-filled pieces about the "speceship from the beginning of the movie disappearing and never being menitoned again" when reviewing Batman Vs. Superman...

Game of Thrones has a highly complex take on morality and a plot so convoluted it is sometimes challenging even for the very attentive. It is the most popular genre show in at least a decade, and that includes a huge US audience.

I don't buy the argument that audiences are dumber than they were in some far-off golden age. I don't buy the argument that American audiences are dumber than European ones. I don't buy the argument that critics don't "get" genre film and TV. They "get" GoT just fine. They also loved Nolan's Batman films. If they hated Batman V Superman, I'm inclined to believe that's probably because it lacked the depth and complexity that modern critics and audiences in fact demand.

We absolutely shouldn't make any excuses for a dumbed-down Star Trek.

Hopefully it's just a dodgy trailer.

MarkAnthony

FutureGuy wrote: »

This trailer is keeping the general audience in mind.

Apparently there are easter eggs hidden in the trailer. One person suggests that the first planet symbolises Praxis and the star represents Veridian III from STVI and Generations, respectively which hints at the time of the piece. Think it's a bit wishywashy myself - anyone else spot anything?

Didn't spot R2D2 but I haven't watched it frame by frame... yet :pac:

AMKC

syklops wrote: »

For the first few seconds of that trailer, I thought it was a trailer for a spoof. Voice over guy in voice over mode, grand music, I was honestly expecting to hear a pop and then Kermit the Frog would appear in a starfleet uniform.

Don't get me wrong Im excited about a new trek series, but that so called trailer was so OTT it was like how they upsell comedy and spoof movies. There was a trailer for Garfield which took the piss out of Spider-man which came out around the same time which was like this.

Really. I do not see anything wrong with this trailer at all. It is getting people and keeping people interested. I actually think it is a very simple but cool trailer and at the same time it teases us about where the next adventures are going to be and has a little bit of Star Trek history in it that we all know about via the Praxis moon and the Amargosa star.