Star Trek: Discovery - Pre-release discussion [** NO SPOILERS **]

fixXxer

I thought gay Sulu was well done. No making it a defining part of his character, just a moment with his husband after a mission worked very well.

Greyjoy

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Jeez I just got my head around Gay marriage but a transgender Character on Star Trek is just too much too soon. Its like a liberals wet dream.;):P

It would be just Too right on. I know trek was always Right on but we just got a gay SULU (something George Takei didnt like) so give it a rest

You can relax, there's no "liberal conspiracy" going on with her name. It's just a habit of the showrunner Bryan Fuller to give his female characters typically male names.

Calhoun

pixelburp wrote: »

Not pretending to be an expert on sexual orientation, but I'm pretty confident, if not sure, transgender people do not keep their 'old' names, if for no other presumably obvious explanation than pragmatism, not to mention the understandable emotional desire to pick a name more reflective of their actual gender.

I haven't read or seen any rationale yet for the curiously male name for Discovery, but I doubt even the laziest screenwriter would be that insensitive or dense. The name of Michael is a weird one, but if was for transgender reasons that feels like it would be the most tone-deaf, bone headed decision.

As for it being 'obvious', as opposed to what? A prominent black women & Asian man on the senior staff, not to mention a Russian? Or the very deliberate casting of a black man / woman as the lead of the spin-offs? Star Trek is about as subtle as a hammer when it comes to its sense of a utopia - choosing NOW to get uppity about it is misguided at best.

None of those shows have been any less for it and generally what you will see for the most part is the star trek formula is always built around a crew and not an individual.

Maybe science will have solved options that trans people have in the future but i think if any program is open and diverse it would be star trek.

Calhoun

fixxxer wrote: »

I thought gay Sulu was well done. No making it a defining part of his character, just a moment with his husband after a mission worked very well.

Its funny as George Takei didn't want Sulu to be gay, as he wanted to stay true to Roddenberry's vision of the character. I also thought it was handled well.

martingriff

Doesn't Bryan Fuller like giving female character men's name. I know there first name maybe the female version of it (eg. Dead Like Me George was Georgia) so it may turn out she was Michelle or Michela. Even if it does turn out to be transgender hope it is done well

MrJones1973

Evade wrote: »

Trans people wouldn't make sense in a culture that has a very good grasp of genetic engineering which is only used to reverse serious birth defects which a brain body misalignment could be argued to be.

If there were any trans people in the 23rd and 24th centuries they might not even know it themselves having had it treated in utero or shortly after birth.

I have been taking the piss. Throw in everything into the mix you want but don't over do it. But I think point about transgender above is relevant

__..__

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Jeez I just got my head around Gay marriage but a transgender Character on Star Trek is just too much too soon. Its like a liberals wet dream.;):P

It would be just Too right on. I know trek was always Right on but we just got a gay SULU (something George Takei didnt like) so give it a rest

Don't get on your high horse in your rush to be offended there. Just because I think they are setting up for some stupid twist does not make me homophobic. So you give it a rest will ya.
Smiley face required.

__..__

Evade wrote: »

Trans people wouldn't make sense in a culture that has a very good grasp of genetic engineering which is only used to reverse serious birth defects which a brain body misalignment could be argued to be.

If there were any trans people in the 23rd and 24th centuries they might not even know it themselves having had it treated in utero or shortly after birth.

You should watch the last episode of the Orville

Evade

__..__ wrote: »

You should watch the last episode of the Orville

I'm waiting for it to come to TV/Netflix over here but I did hear about that one.

pixelburp

__..__ wrote: »

Don't get on your high horse in your rush to be offended there. Just because I think they are setting up for some stupid twist does not make me homophobic. So you give it a rest will ya.
Smiley face required.

As Greyjoy remarked, ockham's razor in this instance is that it's an apparent writing eccentricity of Brian Fuller, so I think that's about as far as it goes; otherwise it'd be one hell of a ... weird twist, especially as that's not how transgender people go about things

Kuva

Steampump wrote: »

Can't watch this, Klingons are different.

Worf said they looked different in the past in some EP somewhere, deep space 9 I think

Zillah

Kuva wrote: »

Worf said they looked different in the past in some EP somewhere, deep space 9 I think

That was a joke reference to the fact that Klingons just looked like regular people in the original series. I have a vague memory of hearing the Enterprise did an episode where it was a virus or something but I never watched it.

Thargor

I didnt like it at first but that music is seriously growing on me now, I feel like it needs just one more epic bit to give it a kick though:

AMKC

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Jeez I just got my head around Gay marriage but a transgender Character on Star Trek is just too much too soon. Its like a liberals wet dream.;):P

It would be just Too right on. I know trek was always Right on but we just got a gay SULU (something George Takei didnt like) so give it a rest

I think its about time. There should have been a transgender character in TNG or DS9 so its about time there was one. Star Trek is the place to do it.

degrassinoel

Zillah wrote: »

That was a joke reference to the fact that Klingons just looked like regular people in the original series. I have a vague memory of hearing the Enterprise did an episode where it was a virus or something but I never watched it.

they used the eugenics war genetically perfect khan guys DNA to augment Klingon DNA and make "Klingon Augments", there was a couple of episodes with Brent Spiner playing Noonien Tsung's great grandad or something - anyway, it went well for the klingons until the human side of augmentations started removing the cranial ridges and exoskeleton and making them look way more human than they should have. Doctor Phlox manages to cure/halt it before it turns the klingons entirely into humans, but more than half the population is affected and it'll take generations(TNG) to get back to normal.

All of which lent credence to the Trials and Tribblations episode from DS9 where Worf said "We dont talk about it"

It was a fairly crap arc in all fairness, and things would have worked just as well if they'd left it all alone, but they didnt... they also did another one with a Gorn.. remember them?



Yeah, them. Enterprise did an episode, actually it was a mirror universe one, "In a mirror darkly" possibly - where they made the gorn look like a fcuking velociraptor..




:P

Zillah

Oh my God this can't be real: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7NZ9IDtTc

silverharp

Zillah wrote: »

Oh my God this can't be real: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7NZ9IDtTc

1:05

https://media.giphy.com/media/AKYqTE0bk6hgI/giphy.gif

AMKC

degrassinoel wrote: »

they used the eugenics war genetically perfect khan guys DNA to augment Klingon DNA and make "Klingon Augments", there was a couple of episodes with Brent Spiner playing Noonien Tsung's great grandad or something - anyway, it went well for the klingons until the human side of augmentations started removing the cranial ridges and exoskeleton and making them look way more human than they should have. Doctor Phlox manages to cure/halt it before it turns the klingons entirely into humans, but more than half the population is affected and it'll take generations(TNG) to get back to normal.

All of which lent credence to the Trials and Tribblations episode from DS9 where Worf said "We dont talk about it"

It was a fairly crap arc in all fairness, and things would have worked just as well if they'd left it all alone, but they didnt... they also did another one with a Gorn.. remember them?



Yeah, them. Enterprise did an episode, actually it was a mirror universe one, "In a mirror darkly" possibly - where they made the gorn look like a fcuking velociraptor..




:P

Maybe the Gorn were actually from Earth and related to the Voth race that were in Voyager Episode" Distant Origin" from season 3 but while they went to a different Quadrant of the Galaxy the Gorn stayed closer to home.

I thought they done a good job myself and liked the look of the Gorn in that episode looked more alien instead of just looking like a human in a green costume.

Calhoun

I gotta say i am loving how well it looks technically, they don't seem to have cheaped out on it at all and the intro music is also great.

degrassinoel

AMKC wrote: »

Maybe the Gorn were actually from Earth and related to the Voth race that were in Voyager Episode" Distant Origin" from season 3 but while they went to a different Quadrant of the Galaxy the Gorn stayed closer to home.

I thought they done a good job myself and liked the look of the Gorn in that episode looked more alien instead of just looking like a human in a green costume.

Ahh no, the cgi was dreadful, they'd actually have done better to have the guy in the suit roll around the place lolling like he did with kirk

Calhoun

degrassinoel wrote: »

Ahh no, the cgi was dreadful, they'd actually have done better to have the guy in the suit roll around the place lolling like he did with kirk

It was of its time to be fair, i dont think as much was invested in TV programs as we see today. The likes of GOT has really seen a big investment.

MrJones1973

There won't be a transgender character as surely that DNA issue would have been sorted by then? As kindly pointed out already by another poster

MrJones1973

AMKC wrote: »

Maybe the Gorn were actually from Earth and related to the Voth race that were in Voyager Episode" Distant Origin" from season 3 but while they went to a different Quadrant of the Galaxy the Gorn stayed closer to home.

I thought they done a good job myself and liked the look of the Gorn in that episode looked more alien instead of just looking like a human in a green costume.

The gorn frightens the **** out of me. I can't look at that picture. I will wake up screaming if I do !!

silverharp

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

There won't be a transgender character as surely that DNA issue would have been sorted by then? As kindly pointed out already by another poster

Using that logic no need for gay characters...Ill get my coat

Woden

Let's dial back please on the line of thought of transgenderism/homosexuality as some sort of issue which needs resolving.

Regards,

Woden

MrJones1973

silverharp wrote: »

Using that logic no need for gay characters...Ill get my coat

I think they are two different things. I never implied what you said either. My understanding of Transgender is limited but it is a desire to be in another body? ie male to female and vice a versa. Sure I suppose people might want to stay in a transgender or fluid state but I would also assume by the 23rd century it might be sorted quickly for those who desire to be in another sexes body? More straightforward than it is now?
Why one would want to sort homosexuality out is beyond me. I never implied that or meant to imply it. Again I state My knowledge on transgender is limited and apologies if I caused any offence

AMKC

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think they are two different things. I never implied what you said either. My understanding of Transgender is limited but it is a desire to be in another body? ie male to female and vice a versa. Sure I suppose people might want to stay in a transgender or fluid state but I would also assume by the 23rd century it might be sorted quickly for those who desire to be in another sexes body? More straightforward than it is now?
Why one would want to sort homosexuality out is beyond me. I never implied that or meant to imply it. Again I state My knowledge on transgender is limited and apologies if I caused any offence

A transgender person is a person that was born into the wrong body and wants to change their body to be the gender they always felt they were and to be able to live as that gender without having people looking at staring at them and asking questions.
Maybe by the 23rd century it would just be a matter of finding two people of opposite genders that feel they are in the wrong bodies and and have them switch brains maybe just like when Kirks brain was moved into that women's body in the last episode of The Original Series.

degrassinoel

Calhoun wrote: »

It was of its time to be fair, i dont think as much was invested in TV programs as we see today. The likes of GOT has really seen a big investment.

it wasnt though, this was the tail end of their budget in the final season, they'd done really well with the CGI prior to that - it looks bad for 2005.

flaneur

Well since French is obsolete Star Trek TNG, maybe they've given up on Michelle and girls are either Micheal or Mick and that's it.

To be honest, their names are quite conservative for the 2220s - the coolest name ever by then could be Gobnait.

But, let's face it this is a modern space opera, so just suspend reality for a while and enjoy!

MrJones1973

RopeDrink wrote: »

As said, it was 10 years behind. Their budget had been literally halved at this point, which explains why.

As for the Michael thing, no, it's no indication of anything - it's just a name. I've not even seen the ep yet, but if I heard correctly, said character was raised on Vulcan and/or by Vulcans, so why would it be any shock that said human ended up with a slightly off name to what would be considered the norm? Having said that, Trek/Norm is far more advanced than our norm here in reality. They would be far and beyond names being regarded as 'weird', hence nobody would bat an eyelid that there is a girl named Michael. As said in another post, despite being a less on-the-nose example, it reminds me of Andy in The Goonies. As someone called Andrew, younger me associated Andy as the short version of my name, thus young me thought it was a boys name when it actually isn't. Since then I've met quite a few women with what others may consider male names, and this reality is god-knows how many years behind the fictional Trek-Verse where such things aren't even worth any thought. Even now a name is just a name at the end of the day - to them it would be equal or less.

I would simply assume that anyone who gets strange vibes from such a move by the show either over-think it or aren't fans of past shows, seeing as any fan would know by now that diversity (human AND alien) has always been a huge theme - I don't see why it wouldn't also apply to something as simple as a name rather than race or gender, without it bringing some sort of 'assumptions' to the table. It has already been established that a certain someone makes a habit of doing this with their writing - take it as that until proven otherwise (and if proven otherwise, it will be one hell of a poor, ham-fisted twist. I'd like to think anyone taking on a Trek project would be smarter than that, though after the recent movies I'm not so sure...) - either way, we'll see. It's not worth thinking about until then (or even after).

I thought the recent trek movies were good .