Star Trek: Discovery - Pre-release discussion [** NO SPOILERS **]

ScumLord

The ship looks ugly up close but I'll put that down to the render being crude. From a distance it looks better.

What's the prime timeline?

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

The ship looks ugly up close but I'll put that down to the render being crude. From a distance it looks better.

Look at the deflector dish powering up...it's just a big blue circle with no detail at all in it.

What's the prime timeline?

Where established Trek happened/happens (ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY). The alternate timeline was created for the new films, based on the temporal incursion of the Romulan mining ship (though even at that, you can see the Kelvin had a 'hot rod' nacelle prior to any changes in the timeline).

py2006

Any word on casting?

AtomicHorror

py2006 wrote: »

Any word on casting?

Not a word. This is due to air in January and all we've seen are two cartoony CG trailers.

Fuller's other big project is due around the same time or even later and there's a lot more to show for it.

Slydice

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Someone played with the trailer a bit and changed the music.... much better!

https://twitter.com/AndyCole84/status/756994951997566976


I can't decide whether I like the ship or not.. it does seem a bit of an awkward mix of styles but it's also still better than JJ's Enterprise.. hmmm

That is so! cool!

syklops

Spear wrote: »

The reg numbers broadly incremented e.g 7xxxx by DS9/Voyager, so 1301 would place it a decent chunk of time before TOS. The hull shape may simply reflect an old and more basic design.

I wondered about the ships designation too. It would suggest it would be pre-TOS. However military designations arent always sequential so it could just be a red herring.

Where it goes in the timeline is a problem without screwing with canon. Post ENT, Pre TOS makes the most sense. To me at least.

squonk

I saw over on the TV forum that they've now come out saying the design of the ship isn't final and that they're looking to clear their design legally as it's close to McQuarry's.

I'm starting to worry a little at this point. Mainly it's because we're five months away from a premiere date and there isn't that much information floating around. We've gotten a teaser trailer with low quality CGI of a ship that many seem unhappy with. My own initially positive opinion is starting to soften at this point thogh that might be coloured by my wider worry about the show.

It was mentioned here that Fuller's other project has much more information out there about it so far, and it's airing around the same time. Perhaps they're taking a leaf out of Apple's book with regards to secrecy but I'm starting to have a suspicion that this might be Star Trek done on the cheap and made quickly just to get the name dangling out there to get subscriber signups for the new CBS online channel. I know they've made some good announcements earlier on and I know too that this trailer is probably just a step up from concept art from their planning meetings but I must say that if they're still finalising the ship design and haven't yet announced a cast, it's beginning to sound very rushed and half assed.

I like Fuller's work and generally trust him, given what he's said about Star Trek so far, but a crappy trailer for a ship that still apparently hasn't a concrete design and no further information really isn't filling me with confidence.

py2006

Perhaps they are going down the Star Wars route of keeping everything secret to build excitement/speculation etc

They may reveal little tidbits here and there in the coming months.

Is this going to be Worf-centric?

Myrddin

NCC-1031 doesn't specifically have to be pre-TOS. The Constellation was NCC-1017, & there's various other ships eith lower registries associated with The Undiscovered Country. In fact, TOS ships can go way down into the three digit range, suggesting that 1031 could just as easily be post-TOS - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/NCC

py2006

In keeping with the whole progressive nature of the Star Trek world, will we see an Asian captain now?

We have had the alpha male, the baldy older guy, the black guy, the woman.

Myrddin

py2006 wrote: »

In keeping with the whole progressive nature of the Star Trek world, will we see an Asian captain now?

We have had the alpha male, the baldy older guy, the black guy, the woman.

Tsk tsk...

Beefy78

I like it. Obviously the CGI is poor but I don't get the problem with the decision of the ship. Surely ships should be functional first and 'looking nice' should be a low priority? We've been spoilt with the curves and elegance of Voyager and the Enterprise D. This ship looks tough and gritty.

py2006

Myrddin wrote: »

Tsk tsk...

Hmm, whats left? A gay, albino dwarf captain?

Myrddin

py2006 wrote: »

Hmm, whats left? A gay, albino dwarf captain?

It'd be risky but they could go with an alien Captain. While we've seen these before, we've not seen them as stars/regulars in the shows.

py2006

Myrddin wrote: »

It'd be risky but they could go with an alien Captain. While we've seen these before, we've not seen them as stars/regulars in the shows.

Thats interesting. I can't see a green girl captain but may be a Vulcan?

Bacchus

I don't think there needs to be a "ooh they picked a transgender captain" type situation here. Star Trek is known for it's diversity but let's not have diversity for diversities sake.

The only choice that would make me think "that's an interesting move" would be to go for an alien captain. In a galaxy of thousands of species, we've only ever had human captains lead a series. I think, given the current climate of fear over immigrants, there's a nice opportunity to put an "outsider" in a command position and see how that sits with a largely human crew.

squonk

That prospect got me excited initially in that I thought it might raise the possibility of a Klingon captain. Judging by the look of the ship, if the show was post TNG I'd be thinking of a Klingon/Human joint effort but the saucer section does look Pre TOS or TOS itself. I'd like to see a Vulcan captain. They're a known quantity at this point and a safe pair of hands but tension would definitely come from the conflict between the logically right thing, versus the emotionally driven right thing. I can't see my idea flying though as I think it's been done to death with Spock in TOS and Data in TNG.

Optimus Prime

For me i dont care who the captain is, i just hope they dont stick in some token character just so they can be "look at us arent we great". Just give us a good trek tv show and pick a captain that FITS with the show. Not someone plugged in there just to be a statement.

Also i hope they dont have a vulcan captain myself, unless they are battling a human\non vulcan side like spock, they are just boring. I dont think i could stand another tv show having to watch episodes like Tuvoks on voyager.

Anything to be said for this show being set in the mirror universe? Going from memory of DS9 here but werent the klingons in power in the mirror universe, it could explain the klingon influence on the ship.. Just speculating. Im glad its in the prime universe. I was reading there that Chris hemsworth is back in the next trek movie as kirks dad. Considering he died right at the point the alternate timeline kicked off, I hope they are going to go and reset the timeline back. - That discussion is probably for another thread though.

AtomicHorror

py2006 wrote: »

Hmm, whats left? A gay, albino dwarf captain?

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

So, yes. And why not?

squonk

LOL anyone hankering back to the time when RTE just advertised TNG would be starting and you were surprised there was a new show because you hadn't heard of it so you just sat down on the Saturday evening to watch the Encounter At Farpoint pilot!

The world has changed so much in 30 odd years. We now know all sorts of details about the shows before the pilot has even rolled. I was only vaguely aware of TNG because a friend saw an episode while he was over in the states for the summer around '88 or '89. It was 1990 before RTE started showing it. RTE was all I had back then!

AtomicHorror

Myrddin wrote: »

It'd be risky but they could go with an alien Captain. While we've seen these before, we've not seen them as stars/regulars in the shows.

Could work. They'll always need human characters to act as the viewer's point of reference or gateway into the story, but no reason why the captain couldn't be alien.

Bacchus wrote: »

I don't think there needs to be a "ooh they picked a transgender captain" type situation here. Star Trek is known for it's diversity but let's not have diversity for diversities sake.

I suspect that if they introduced a transgender person, no justification will be enough to shield them from that criticism from some quarters. I think diversity for diversities sake is actually part of what Star Trek is all about. Where the risk lies is in a bad implementation, or a poor or stereotyped representation of the given minority.

I don't agree with the idea that character traits should need to serve the story- they can offer a new perspective into the story and that's valuable too.

ItHurtsWhenIP

squonk wrote: »

LOL anyone hankering back to the time when RTE just advertised TNG would be starting and you were surprised there was a new show because you hadn't heard of it so you just sat down on the Saturday evening to watch the Encounter At Farpoint pilot!

The world has changed so much in 30 odd years. We now know all sorts of details about the shows before the pilot has even rolled. I was only vaguely aware of TNG because a friend saw an episode while he was over in the states for the summer around '88 or '89. It was 1990 before RTE started showing it. RTE was all I had back then!

I wasn't even aware it was being made, let alone coming on TV. I walked into my local pub of a Saturday evening. just as Encounter was coming on RTE ... and there was me going "What's this? A New Star Trek??? Must watch ...." :eek::o:D

Tasha Yar stole my heart that evening. :P

squonk

Have to admit I was more a fan of the Betazoid counsellor, once she ditched the weird hairdo and stopped spouting the obvious "I sense great danger captain!" as the enemy vessel was powering up their weapons system!

Bacchus

squonk wrote: »

LOL anyone hankering back to the time when RTE just advertised TNG would be starting and you were surprised there was a new show because you hadn't heard of it so you just sat down on the Saturday evening to watch the Encounter At Farpoint pilot!

I was up with my parents visiting my Gran. I had no idea there was a new Star Trek. It blew my mind. A new ship! New crew! The saucer detaches! Good times.

degrassinoel

py2006 wrote: »

Thats interesting. I can't see a green girl captain but may be a Vulcan?

That'd make for a seriously boring show, until season 7 anyway.

Goodshape

If I were a betting man I think I'd put money on a human captain. You need that anchor for the audience.

Though Fuller has said they're casting with a "colour-blind prism and gender-blind prism", so sounds like (thankfully) anything goes there; it's just about finding the right actor – regardless of anything else.

FULLER: I’ve met with a few actors, and it’s an interesting process. There’s a few people that we like and we want to carry on what Star Trek does best, which is being progressive. So it’s fascinating to look at all of these roles through a colorblind prism and a gender-blind prism, so that’s exciting.

http://collider.com/new-star-trek-series-details

Links234

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I suspect that if they introduced a transgender person, no justification will be enough to shield them from that criticism from some quarters. I think diversity for diversities sake is actually part of what Star Trek is all about. Where the risk lies is in a bad implementation, or a poor or stereotyped representation of the given minority.

I don't agree with the idea that character traits should need to serve the story- they can offer a new perspective into the story and that's valuable too.

I think people blanketly dismissing the prospect of a transgender character on Trek, whether they think it might be diversity for the sake of it or not, is denying the possibility that that could be an extremely good thing. Jamie Clayton's performance in Sense8 was quite possibly one of the best things on TV, she was incredible. Implementation is definitely where the problem would lie. I'm sure we've all heard the story told by Patrick Stewart about the reporter who asked wouldn't they have found a cure for baldness by the 24th century, and Gene Roddenberry responded that by the 24th century, they wouldn't care. That is how they should handle it, if they cast someone who is trans, then making absolutely no issue of it whatsoever would be the most Trek thing they could possibly do.

AtomicHorror

Links234 wrote: »

I think people blanketly dismissing the prospect of a transgender character on Trek, whether they think it might be diversity for the sake of it or not, is denying the possibility that that could be an extremely good thing. Jamie Clayton's performance in Sense8 was quite possibly one of the best things on TV, she was incredible. Implementation is definitely where the problem would lie. I'm sure we've all heard the story told by Patrick Stewart about the reporter who asked wouldn't they have found a cure for baldness by the 24th century, and Gene Roddenberry responded that by the 24th century, they wouldn't care. That is how they should handle it, if they cast someone who is trans, then making absolutely no issue of it whatsoever would be the most Trek thing they could possibly do.

Simply, yes.

If Trek really wants to return to breaking ground as it once did with race and feminism, it needs to really look at gender and transgenderism - as a perspective first and foremost, and as a plot point if useful.

Nate--IRL--

Didn't it already do something like that in ST:TNG?

Nate

AtomicHorror

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Didn't it already do something like that in ST:TNG?

Nate

The Outcast touched on it. As did The Host, in a less direct way.

Links234

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Didn't it already do something like that in ST:TNG?

Nate

Eh, kinda... The episode "The Outcast" where there was an androgenous race, but it was a bit hamfisted and a weak episode. I'd actually say Jadzia Dax was a better counterpoint, especially her interpersonal relationship with Sisko, having a previous friendship with Curzon.

AtomicHorror

Links234 wrote: »

Eh, kinda... The episode "The Outcast" where there was an androgenous race, but it was a bit hamfisted and a weak episode. I'd actually say Jadzia Dax was a better counterpoint, especially her interpersonal relationship with Sisko, having a previous friendship with Curzon.

Yes, Trek has done these things via allegory and metaphor many times before, and there is value in that, but I don't think an allegory racism played out between warring alien species is at all as powerful as simply showing people of all ethnicities living and working together as if there's no problem.

Similarly for LGBT people, there's greater power in putting the Starfleet uniform on them than there is in either writing a story about genderfluid aliens or doing the gender/sexuality equivalent of Uhura and Kirk's kiss.

degrassinoel

idc what they do so long as it's good sci-fi, and doesn't bollocks up trek's timeline

_Kaiser_

I'll go against the consensus here and say that the notion of casting actors or developing characters with particular sexual traits to push an agenda is completely wrong.

As said above, if a trans actor/character is "just there" and good at their role, then fine - however I fear it would just have to be highlighted to show how "progressive" we are, rather than letting their performance speak for itself.

Links234

Some would've said that having a Russia character a decade after the end of McCarthyism was pushing an agenda, or for that matter a Japanese actor/character, or having an interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura was agenda pushing, or having a black captain or a female captain was agenda pushing. Trek was always about imagining a future to aspire to, and as such was always progressive.

Kirby

Personally, I'd rather they concentrate on the making the show the best it can be....and not pushing agenda's. It's distracting. You want people talking about how good the show is.....not how the new star trek show has a disabled-trans-alien captain.

AtomicHorror

Kirby wrote: »

Personally, I'd rather they concentrate on the making the show the best it can be....and not pushing agenda's.

Star Trek without an agenda would be a pretty significant departure.

Kirby wrote: »

It's distracting. You want people talking about how good the show is.....not how the new star trek show has a disabled-trans-alien captain.

Hypothetically, if the captain were transgender and the audience and critics didn't focus on that element but just praised the quality of the show in general, would you be happy with the captain being transgender?

Optimus Prime

Looks like its pretty much confirmed its set before Kirk\Spock now.. if it wasnt already.

I hate aintitcool.com these days.. but..

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/75876

To be honest im disappointed a bit.

_Kaiser_

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Looks like its pretty much confirmed its set before Kirk\Spock now.. if it wasnt already.

I hate aintitcool.com these days.. but..

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/75876

To be honest im disappointed a bit.

Think it's a mistake going with ANOTHER prequel myself. It didn't work for ENT (despite the improvements in the last 2 seasons), and the reaction to the JJ movies and their messing with established timelines and mythology is well documented.

squonk

I'm a bit disappointed too but looking at the bigger picture, if they're going to follwo a theme through multiple seasons of this show set in different eras then it could work very well. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a Section 31 series. Also promising though is that it could be an Official Axanar series. Again this would be promising.

Goodshape

Section 31 and time travel... aren't they sort of the antithesis of good exploration, discovery (heh), occasionally cerebral, Star Trek?

Not going to judge before seeing or learning more but those really wouldn't be my first choices at all.


But also this doesn't sound like any sort of confirmation; just another person speculating based on the ship registration number. Those have never meant much in the past.

Optimus Prime

Speculating on the ship number yes, but based on the fact Brian Fuller said that indicates when its set, but your right i guess its not a confirmation.

If its an anthology show, i guess , with section 31 being the centre of it but a running arc through 100s of years, then maybe only the first season is set pre spock\kirk. who knows! Maybe we will find out more info on the 10th.

Sad Professor

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Think it's a mistake going with ANOTHER prequel myself. It didn't work for ENT (despite the improvements in the last 2 seasons), and the reaction to the JJ movies and their messing with established timelines and mythology is well documented.

The problem with ENT wasn't the premise though it was the execution. The premise had a lot of potential which was squandered on TNG/VOY reject scripts. Berman/Braga were just collecting paychecks.

I'd have lot more faith in Fuller to make this work.

Myrddin

Weren't there several TOS era ships with registries not much higher, and indeed lower than, 1031?

I tend to agree though, it's looking pre-TOS with a Section 31 slant on it. Not the inspiring, positivity laden adventure I was hoping for...

degrassinoel

i think you're all wrong, this is where Fuller gets to make up for Enterprise's flaws. I'm really hopeful (for a change)

Potentially this could be, birth of the federation, the return of Archer - you KNOW they'll do that one with Bakula and some of the Enterprise crew, Fed/Klingon hostilities and maybe even mid/late war given the design of the ship.

Just please, for the love of the prophets.. don't go back to the temporal cold war shyte again. We've had nazi aliens twice already

Myrddin

degrassinoel wrote: »

We've had nazi aliens twice already

If they go down that road again I'm finished with Trek*






*probably not true

The_Valeyard

I actually liked this review of the teaser!

The comments:

"You could've done something better in Space Engineers."

"fugly"

Links234

Kirby wrote: »

Personally, I'd rather they concentrate on the making the show the best it can be....and not pushing agenda's. It's distracting. You want people talking about how good the show is.....not how the new star trek show has a disabled-trans-alien captain.

If you believe that including a trans character would district, prevent the show from being the best it can be, or otherwise being to the detriment of Trek, then that in and of itself is a resounding reason to include a trans character. I've a lot of faith in Fuller, and having Nicholas Meyer onboard isn't just icing on the cake, it's a whole other cake in addition to the cake we already have, so I'm sure the show will be the best it can be.

AMKC

Looks like its a prequel set before TOS. August 10th going to be a big day we should find out a lot more about it on that day. Bryan Fuller says he is going to spoiler it up.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/75876