Star Trek: Discovery - Pre-release discussion [** NO SPOILERS **]

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

I think I, Borg portrays the drones as sympathetic victims instead of the mass killers they were but if anything that makes the Borg as a collective more terrifying

I think when it came to the Borg, the very less we knew, the better the effect, ultimately.

TheValeyard

I want more Tholians. Or maybe The Organians. And more Gorn.

Greyjoy

Evade wrote: »

I think I, Borg portrays the drones as sympathetic victims instead of the mass killers they were but if anything that makes the Borg as a collective more terrifying.

Agreed, that episode had the same effect on me. It's very easy to treat the Borg as unthinking robots almost but I,Borg reminds the viewer that each drone is in essence a victim of the collective. Their own personalities subsumed under the weight of the hive mind. Now 'Descent' on the other hand is where I think the Borg started to get undermined. Their menace was reduced as they were portrayed as easily duped goons working for Lore.

As for Borg in Discovery? Absolutely not. It's bad enough that they tried to cram them into Enterprise but inserting them into Discovery completely negates the premise of "Q Who" in TNG.

Greyjoy

Greyjoy wrote: »

Agreed, that episode had the same effect on me. It's very easy to treat the Borg as unthinking robots almost but I,Borg reminds the viewer that each drone is in essence a victim of the collective. Their own personalities subsumed under the weight of the hive mind. Now 'Descent' on the other hand is where I think the Borg started to get undermined. Their menace was reduced as they were portrayed as easily duped goons working for Lore.

As for Borg in Discovery? Absolutely not. It's bad enough that they tried to cram them into Enterprise but inserting them into Discovery completely negates the premise of "Q Who" in TNG.

Remember that the Borg timeline was fecked from day one.
The episode where the Romulans come back, with the D looking for the missing colonies was meant to be the initial Borg incursion and they were actually meant to be somewhat of a serialised season villian but the writers strike killed that plan.

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember that the Borg timeline was fecked from day one.
The episode where the Romulans come back, with the D looking for the missing colonies was meant to be the initial Borg incursion and they were actually meant to be somewhat of a serialised season villian but the writers strike killed that plan.

Weren't they originally supposed to be part of the insect race from Conspiracy? I think they changed them because the makeup wouldn't have worked.

CramCycle

I always wondered were the borg related to Voyager coming back, as in programmed by the same race and maybe the Borg where the ones who got out of control or some such.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

Weren't they originally supposed to be part of the insect race from Conspiracy? I think they changed them because the makeup wouldn't have worked.

There were a few but the current form was from the above storyline.


Also it threw out their planning, suddenly the Federation had a Borg expert in Commander Shelby, the cube was already close by Earth but skipped all the other races surrounding Federation space. Looking at the map the Federation is well surrounded by powers.


Enterpirse putting a causality loop in place solved a lot of these issues (in Trek physics anyway)
Small sections of Federation knew of a cybernetic race, the signal to borg space took that long and they dispatched a ship to investigate. Q knows of this and puts the D in its path to warn the Federation.


Federation is still woefully underprepared mind put that is a overused Trek trope anyway (how many times is there only one ship in range or Earth is totally undefended)

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

I always wondered were the borg related to Voyager coming back, as in programmed by the same race and maybe the Borg where the ones who got out of control or some such.

Or even a corruption of the merging of Vger with Ilia

Edit: imagine if the reveal of the Queen had been Ilia returned!!

Greyjoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember that the Borg timeline was fecked from day one.
The episode where the Romulans come back, with the D looking for the missing colonies was meant to be the initial Borg incursion and they were actually meant to be somewhat of a serialised season villian but the writers strike killed that plan.

I don't think that change harmed the Borg in the long run. They don't get the gradual build-up of a threat that they originally would have had. On the other hand Q provoking contact with the Borg years ahead of when the Federation would have 'naturally' encountered them heightens the fact that Starfleet are way out of their depth against this new threat.

Greyjoy

Greyjoy wrote: »

I don't think that change harmed the Borg in the long run. They don't get the gradual build-up of a threat that they originally would have had. On the other hand Q provoking contact with the Borg years ahead of when the Federation would have 'naturally' encountered them heightens the fact that Starfleet are way out of their depth against this new threat.

It doesn't affect the story but leaves plot holes as to why a ship big enough to scoop out colonies along the neutral zone bugger off home and how Shelby was a Borg expert on just the Enterprise logs from the encounter.

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Also it threw out their planning, suddenly the Federation had a Borg expert in Commander Shelby,

It's been a while since I've seen Best of Both Worlds but isn't Shelby's knowledge all academic? She studied the colonies lost on the Romulan border, the damage done to the Enterprise in Q Who and whatever sensor information the they collected, and a couple of off screen incidents. It's pretty reasonable that after a year or so of study she's Starfleet's Borg expert.

fxotoole

Evade wrote: »

It's been a while since I've seen Best of Both Worlds but isn't Shelby's knowledge all academic? She studied the colonies lost on the Romulan border, the damage done to the Enterprise in Q Who and whatever sensor information the they collected, and a couple of off screen incidents. It's pretty reasonable that after a year or so of study she's Starfleet's Borg expert.

To the extent that anyone in Starfleet could be an expert. I.E. she’s the only starfleet officer with the most exposure to Borg technologies, tactics, etc. No one else has the level of knowledge she has, so she’s the only choice when it comes to selecting an expert.

Goodshape

Also....

She's ambitious.

Evade

fxotoole wrote: »

To the extent that anyone in Starfleet could be an expert. I.E. she’s the only starfleet officer with the most exposure to Borg technologies, tactics, etc. No one else has the level of knowledge she has, so she’s the only choice when it comes to selecting an expert.

Exactly. Starfleet's expert, not necessarily very well versed.

Goodshape wrote: »

Also....

She's ambitious.

She did make captain before Riker.

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

She did make captain before Riker.

She did??

Evade

Inviere wrote: »

She did??

There's a mention of a Captain Shelby in DS9 and Ronald D. Moore intended for it to be Shelby from Best of both Worlds. There's some legal issue as to whether he could have reused the character but it's just a passing reference so why not?

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

There's a mention of a Captain Shelby in DS9 and Ronald D. Moore intended for it to be Shelby from Best of both Worlds. There's some legal issue as to whether he could have reused the character but it's just a passing reference so why not?

That one must have passed me by, have you a link to anything more on it?

donspeekinglesh

Inviere wrote: »

That one must have passed me by, have you a link to anything more on it?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Shelby

Slydice

I remember reading that before and it was left open for interpretation.

A new show with Captain Shelby would be good though.

Inviere

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Shelby

Very interesting, I never copped that while watching that episode. Safe enough to assume it's the Shelby from BoBW.

Smertrius

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuL5jyCHOw this is discovery new song but copyright of sony belongs Lenny Kravitz not cbs

Kirby

By new song do you mean new intro?

Seriously?

CramCycle

I presumed it was just the trailer music and nothing more

WomanSkirtFan8

Smertrius wrote: »

please stop convince to watch this series of star trek its too dark to star trek

Fine. You can leave now. You know where the door is

Goodshape

CramCycle wrote: »

I presumed it was just the trailer music and nothing more

I'm confident it is just the trailer music. It wasn't used on the international / Netflix version of the trailer either.