Marvel's Black Panther (2018)

Agent Coulson

Blade was long before they even had a dream about the MCU.


I'd much prefer to see Blade join the Netflix model of the MCU if they bring him in.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Blade was long before they even had a dream about the MCU.


I'd much prefer to see Blade join the Netflix model of the MCU if they bring him in.

While he has massive ties to DD they ignored Stick as his teacher.
Easily retconned mind but Blade is bigger than the Defenders (thanks to Snipes TBH)

pitifulgod

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

+1 on this, I thought he was really really terrible tbh. Aside from that quite a different and enjoyable film. I really do like the African culture, music and art woven into the film, with the tech particularly. The lab for example seemed so much more alive than a generic US avengers or CIA lab with the tribal painted surfaces.

I also thought it was

a bit of a waste to just kill off Klau, he's a great character and could have done with being around for some future films

That's the thing I really loved about it. It had pacing issues but culturally and life to the world made it one of the most interesting films for me. Eg the city covered in greenery, the setting for the duels and the score throughout. I would go as far as saying that it has one of the most vibrant and distinct soundtracks of Marvel films.

flazio

Side note. I wonder if this

Wakanda introduction

to the world make its way down to Harlem in time for Luke Cage series 2.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

Side note. I wonder if this

Wakanda introduction

to the world make its way down to Harlem in time for Luke Cage series 2.

Series and films barely acknowledge each other anymore after the fallout of Feige and Permutter

Varik

Deleted User wrote: »

While he has massive ties to DD they ignored Stick as his teacher.
Easily retconned mind but Blade is bigger than the Defenders (thanks to Snipes TBH)

There was an ultimate connection but are you not mixing him up with whistler.

Varik

Varik wrote: »

There was an ultimate connection but are you not mixing him up with whistler.

Probably getting universes mixed up

yourdeadwright

Blade in the MCU would be unreal ,
Still the best two Marvel movies of all time in my opinion,
Id love to see Snipes pop up in an upcoming movie

pixelburp

I dunno, the MCU is crowded enough as it is, I'm not sure I'd be on board the Supernatural suddenly appearing in this universe too. Sure it's all heavily fantastical to begin with, but cramming in vampires and their spooky brethren would feel like a leap too far. What I enjoy the most about the MCU is that it's a relatively lean, efficient interpretation of the Marvel world, without all the bloat, crossover and continuity insanity that clutters up all the comics.

yourdeadwright

pixelburp wrote: »

I dunno, the MCU is crowded enough as it is, I'm not sure I'd be on board the Supernatural suddenly appearing in this universe too. Sure it's all heavily fantastical to begin with, but cramming in vampires and their spooky brethren would feel like a leap too far. What I enjoy the most about the MCU is that it's a relatively lean, efficient interpretation of the Marvel world, without all the bloat, crossover and continuity insanity that clutters up all the comics.

If they can find a place for Doctor Strange i'm sure they can find a place for Blade, There isn't really a character like Blade in whole MCU,
Himself and Wolverine would be the two id most like to see in the MCU,

Banjaxed82

It was a pretty entertaining film but as was mentioned I thought it was a bit bland and a lot of cliches.

Some convenient (lazy) plotting as well.

While the film is culturally important I don't think the actual content of the film did it justice.

Chris_Heilong

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

It was a pretty entertaining film but as was mentioned I thought it was a bit bland and a lot of cliches.

Some convenient (lazy) plotting as well.

While the film is culturally important I don't think the actual content of the film did it justice.

He was sort of a B list character in the comics so I think what they did with the film was good if not a tad cliche.

Varik

Would love blade, can't believe that it's 20 years old now. Big fan of them introducing the supernatural.

For anyone who gave up on agents of shield they changed time, which allowed them to raise the age rating just in time for Ghost rider. Who unlike his comic book version doesn't have a weird helmet head and looks like the other ghost riders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75tObt8V8HE

would people want a new blade with a recasting or just continue.

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

He was sort of a B list character in the comics so I think what they did with the film was good if not a tad cliche.

I think D would be closer, but then again Iron man was a B at best before the first film. Everyone was a distant runner up to Spiderman and the X-men.

gandalf

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Blade was long before they even had a dream about the MCU.


I'd much prefer to see Blade join the Netflix model of the MCU if they bring him in.

Well Blade is definitely worth a reboot and based on the quality of some of the Netflix's Marvel series that would definitely be the best output for them. Would love to see it happen, Blade and Blade 2 are two of sick day goto movies!

TerrorFirmer

That clip above with Ghost Rider looks good. As someone who watched the first few episodes of Agents of Shield in S1 way back when and really disliked it (I found it just way too kiddy-goofy-family friendly), is it worh revisiting? I do like all the MCU features.

pjohnson

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That clip above with Ghost Rider looks good. As someone who watched the first few episodes of Agents of Shield in S1 way back when and really disliked it (I found it just way too kiddy-goofy-family friendly), is it worh revisiting? I do like all the MCU features.

Its bloody amazing now. It was a Ghost Rider clip that made me revisit it and no regrets

Penn

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That clip above with Ghost Rider looks good. As someone who watched the first few episodes of Agents of Shield in S1 way back when and really disliked it (I found it just way too kiddy-goofy-family friendly), is it worh revisiting? I do like all the MCU features.

S1 is tough to get through, no question. It improves a lot by the end of S1 (which you do kinda have to have watched all the preceding episodes in order to appreciate what they do with the end of S1).

However, each season since just keeps getting better and better. Some dud episodes here and there, sure. But the show is not afraid to take chances, and it keeps introducing storylines that keep things extremely fresh, while still staying true to the characters. It has a lot of fairly dramatic moments, but it's also a lot of fun without trying to be overly comedic for the sake of it. Add to that an amazing main cast and some great supporting characters, and just some genuinely amazing moments/scenes.

It's genuinely a great show once you get over the first season, and like I said, just keeps getting better and better.

TerrorFirmer

Cool, thanks to both. I might give it another go.

Varik

gandalf wrote: »

Well Blade is definitely worth a reboot and based on the quality of some of the Netflix's Marvel series that would definitely be the best output for them. Would love to see it happen, Blade and Blade 2 are two of sick day goto movies!

Just remembered they did a reboot already there's a 2006 TV series.

Tefral

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Cool, thanks to both. I might give it another go.

Defintely... around episode 12/13 of the first season, the impact of Captain America the Winter Soldier kicks in and the show takes a life of its own.

But you kinda have to suffer the episodes before that because the whole Tahiti thing.

flazio

Tefral wrote: »

Defintely... around episode 12/13 of the first season, the impact of Captain America the Winter Soldier kicks in and the show takes a life of its own.

But you kinda have to suffer the episodes before that because the whole Tahiti thing.

It's a magical place.

While different audiences have different reactions to the movie. In my view these are the opinions that matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=expKmfdoo28

JP Liz V1

Okoye (Michonne) was my fav character, the actress reminds me of Viola Davis, Klaw was good too

It is good but not great considering the high praise it is getting though I would not be surprised at Oscar nom for Ryan Coogler

Michael B. Jordan reminded me of Shawn Wayans and the noise dance parts reminded me of a Beyonce music video

JP Liz V1

.

Slydice

Just over $1 Billion (worldwide) today:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=main&id=marvel2017b.htm

sonic85

Only got to see this tonight. Can't understand the praise it's gotten because in my view it's extremely bland and a bit of a yawnfest. It has some great things going for it - I liked the visuals bar the dodgy CGI in places and Boseman and Jordan were good I thought but after that it was all a bit meh for me I'm afraid. It's a pity because I really wanted to like this movie - Black Panther is a cool character.

youngblood

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Okoye (Michonne) was my fav character, the actress reminds me of Viola Davis,

I had no idea it was the same actor until now! Mind blown! She really can act after all those terrible WD scenes

Memnoch

sonic85 wrote: »

Only got to see this tonight. Can't understand the praise it's gotten because in my view it's extremely bland and a bit of a yawnfest. It has some great things going for it - I liked the visuals bar the dodgy CGI in places and Boseman and Jordan were good I thought but after that it was all a bit meh for me I'm afraid. It's a pity because I really wanted to like this movie - Black Panther is a cool character.

Each to their own. For me this is close to being the best Marvel movie along side the first Avengers.

Because this is a film that actually has something to say other than the other Marvel films that just hide behind explosions and stunts. The themes of pan africanism, racism, discrimination, colonialism are weaved into the very marrow of the structure of the film. It approaches these themes with maturity and nuance but at the same time doesn't pull it's punches.

I actually thought the obligatory 3rd act cgi fest was what let the film down and prevented it from being truly great.

It's a bit odd, because I would think that Irish people, who very well understand the devastating history of colonialism would be more affected by a story that considers these issues, but if this thread is any guide it's like that entire part of the film which is really where its meat and potatoes are is something that they don't see or care about. Which is interesting in of itself.

sonic85

Memnoch wrote: »

Each to their own. For me this is close to being the best Marvel movie along side the first Avengers.

Because this is a film that actually has something to say other than the other Marvel films that just hide behind explosions and stunts. The themes of pan africanism, racism, discrimination, colonialism are weaved into the very marrow of the structure of the film. It approaches these themes with maturity and nuance but at the same time doesn't pull it's punches.

I actually thought the obligatory 3rd act cgi fest was what let the film down and prevented it from being truly great.

It's a bit odd, because I would think that Irish people, who very well understand the devastating history of colonialism would be more affected by a story that considers these issues, but if this thread is any guide it's like that entire part of the film which is really where its meat and potatoes are is something that they don't see or care about. Which is interesting in of itself.

If you liked it fair play but when I go into a movie - especially a comic book movie I don't want to be lectured about colonialism racism or anything else to be honest. That's not what I go to these movies for. I want entertainment and a break from reality. There's plenty of other places that people can get their social commentary fix from. Why does that crap have to seep its way into these movies.

Black Panther seems to be taking on a whole new meaning. Its not just a movie now it seems to be much more than that. Proof of that is the abuse Ed Power recieved online for having the temerity to give it a lukewarm review. I have no time for that kind of rubbish. Personally I just see it as a comic book movie. And not a great one at that.

FunLover18

A Black Panther movie that doesn't mention coloniasm or racism sounds like a Black Panther movie made by a white person. I suggest anyone who has any doubts regarding the cultural importance and ideas of this film should listen to the Black Men Can't Jump podcast about this film.

Slydice

The full first season of Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther is up on the Marvel channel on youtube:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(TV_series)

On March 16, 2018, the entire series was released through Marvel's YouTube channel for free as Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther.

Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther - Episode 1

Links to the others:
Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther - Episode 2
Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther - Episode 3
Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther - Episode 4
Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther - Episode 5
Marvel Knights Animation - Black Panther - Episode 6

kerplun k

Finally got a chance to watch it tonight. I though it was meh. Can’t believe the 97% RT score and 1.2bl it’s made at the box office. The reaction and performance kinda reminds me of Wonder Woman, both are okay films, helped by movie critics trying to prove they’re not sexist or racist.

kerplun k

kerplun k wrote: »

Finally got a chance to watch it tonight. I though it was meh. Can’t believe the 97% RT score and 1.2bl it’s made at the box office. The reaction and performance kinda reminds me of Wonder Woman, both are okay films, helped by movie critics trying to prove they’re not sexist or racist.

WW is a much better film (both have terrible final 20 minutes though)

jaxxx

I was going to go see it, but I'm not at all bothered. I've checked the plot on Wikipedia so know what's happened and everything, I'm just not fussed to see it at all.

Infinity War on the other hand...

johnny_ultimate

Easily the finest Marvel to date, and IMO by several orders of magnitude (admittedly, I think pretty lowly of most of the films in the franchise).

That's not to say it's a masterpiece or anything: it doesn't fully cast off the franchise shackles, with baggage like the obligatory Stan Lee cameo, bill****ty McGuffin, or an immensely action-packed but also immensely dull third act CGtastic battle. But most of the time this is thrillingly divorced from the cinematic universe ****e that has made the whole Marvel business increasingly torturous.

This is the first of these films to actually radiate with cultural texture and context, which makes an astounding difference. Sure, it's nice to finally see a black superhero after several dozen-ish films, but this goes deeper than that. It embraces and comments on the real-world in ways that are ingrained into the very plot: historical colonialism, contemporary globalisation (references to Afghanistan aren't just an excuse for cheap backstory), the complexity & diversity of identity. The commentary on such matters is obviously reasonably straightforward, but at the same time I was impressed at some of the shades of grey introduced - the future fate of Wakanda isn't the stuff of just easy answers. Its own identity is impressively rich - the colourful costume & world design is a celebration of everything from tribal tradition to pure Afrofuturism. A few scenes - particularly the waterfall combat - are a strong realisation of the stuff going on here. Kudos to Rachel Morrison for bringing the world to life with such vibrancy: even the dusky lighting as the characters approach the Wanaka border near the start of the film shows a film with a surprising amount of visual texture.

It's not surprising Coogler proves a dab hand at fluidly incorporating the African-American experience into the mix from the off, but perhaps more unexpected that the film feels like it operates confidently as a James Bond homage for a decent chunk of its running time. Even the score, so often a particular weakpoint in the Marvel universe, is something to treasure - action movie score mixed with African influence infused with hip-hop beats. If it inevitably makes a few misjudgements in this cultural melange (the extra-large mouth-piercings of one tribe felt a trick too far), it is still a wild and reasonably sensibly realised world that treated the tribes and people with respect.

It also finally solves the persistent curse of the Marvel film: the villain. Michael B Jordan's Killmonger overcomes the silly nickname to be perhaps the star of the show. While he's obviously the 'bad guy' (

not least in the rather questionable and swiftly forgotten offing of his girlfriend

) his motivations come from an understandable, even sympathetic place even if the solution he pursues is gravely flawed. What's particularly refreshing is that Killmonger's actions feel like they inform and complicate our hero's perspective of the world, meaning the destination he reaches feels earned even if it was inevitable. Add to this a particularly likeable batch of supporting characters - particularly those played by Lupita Nyong'o, Letitia Wright and Winston Duke - and you have a film that does right by its cast.

So yeah: there's definitely weak spots (particularly when it comes to action), the world is sometimes restricted by the limits of computers, and even its successes are relative compared to other Marvel films and blockbusters. But this is largely a success, and the first time since the first batch of Marvel films I've emerged from one of these films feeling legitimately satisfied. Hopefully when the characters are done with the next loud crossover event we can get a sequel that again embraces this film's approach, because it's a good one. It's not quite as good as The Last Jedi, but like that film Black Panther gives me that rare spark of hope that even in the most tightly-controlled of franchises there's room for cool films that do mostly their own thing.

Mark Hamill

Saw this last week. Overall myself and my girlfriend really enjoyed it.
The good:
The setting and story were very well realised.
Villain had great motivation.
I mostly liked the secondary characters (sister, love interest, opposing tribe leader, Bilbo Baggins etc)
I quite liked how the main plot dealt with one big aspect of Wakanda/Black Panther I never liked at all

I don't read the comics and only know of BP from some of the animated TV sows, mainly Avengers: Earths Mighiest Heroes, where he was a bit of Mary Sue who just showed up one day and schooled everyone and was the leader of Wakanda which was just better than everywhere else. I'm glad the movie came to the conclusion that the whole notion of Wakanda excluding themselves from the world, even because they were afraid of becoming colonists themselves, was a mistake.

.
Andy Serkis was great.

The Bad:
The fighting was mostly terrible - The big CG fights are mostly fine, but Marvel really need to get a proper fight choreographer for the small and one-on-one stuff. I'm normally not bothered by camera quickly changing positions during fights and previous Marvel movies had some decent fights (Civil War's 2 on 1 at the end, Winter Soldiers elevator fight) but BP had some of really bad camera work in their fighting. Not to mention

the opening fight was very dark, the casino fight was horribly clunky and the last fight (between BP and Killmonger) was just uninspired.

The opening was way too dark, very hard to see what was going on during most of the opening scene.
Was I the only one who didn't like Michael B. Jordan? I liked the character, it was very well plotted with good motivation and back story, but I found him a bit dull and

didn't really feel anything at the end when they (Marvel) just him die.

pixelburp

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The Bad:
The fighting was mostly terrible - The big CG fights are mostly fine, but Marvel really need to get a proper fight choreographer for the small and one-on-one stuff. I'm normally not bothered by camera quickly changing positions during fights and previous Marvel movies had some decent fights (Civil War's 2 on 1 at the end, Winter Soldiers elevator fight) but BP had some of really bad camera work in their fighting. Not to mention

the opening fight was very dark, the casino fight was horribly clunky and the last fight (between BP and Killmonger) was just uninspired.

I agree on this, and it's definitely symptomatic of the MCU of late; there's little to no deference anymore to anything resembling gravity, momentum or physics with the more ostensibly hand to hand combat. I mean I get it, in my own review I complained about Vibranium becoming a nonsense element enabling the worst kind of bullsh*t science, so a little disbelief is required with these films, but a lot of the fights in Black Panther were supposed to be simple one on ones - yet none of the fisticuffs felt real, or even vaguely tangible. Just a lot of floaty, badly composited CGI.

It's interesting to compare that with the supposed sibling TV show, Agents of SHIELD, which has some pretty stellar, impactful fight scenes peppered throughout its episodes. Obviously the show has a fraction of the MCU's budget, but they definitely invest in some fight choreographers, giving a lot of the action some proper, demonstrable weight. Agent May is championed as the ultimate badass and that manifests in some thrilling, memorable action set-pieces.

Honestly, I don't see Ryan Coogler as the kind of director with much interest in the more action-oriented scenes in any case - I daresay what got him onboard (aside from the money) was the suite of characters and their backstories - so it didn't surprise me too much that nearly all of the set pieces were ultimately a bit of a mess.

Imagine Gareth Evans in charge of a MCU film!

kerplun k

pixelburp wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see Ryan Coogler as the kind of director with much interest in the more action-oriented scenes

I agree with this.
It's not like Coogler isn't capable of crafting a good action scene. I watched Creed recently, and the one shot boxing scene was one of the best choreographed fight scenes I’ve seen in a long time, but I think his focus was 100% on the backstories.

Honestly were that the case he did a half assed job

Harry Palmr

Next week Black Panther will overtake Last Jedi in the USA/Canada and within the next month on a global scale which is not something anyone foresaw it's fair to say.

Greyfox

Just back from it, easily the best film of 2018 so far. great baddie whos motivation gives the films story real depth, BP's backup team where really cool, absolutely brilliant film

Memnoch

sonic85 wrote: »

If you liked it fair play but when I go into a movie - especially a comic book movie I don't want to be lectured about colonialism racism or anything else to be honest. That's not what I go to these movies for. I want entertainment and a break from reality. There's plenty of other places that people can get their social commentary fix from. Why does that crap have to seep its way into these movies.

Black Panther seems to be taking on a whole new meaning. Its not just a movie now it seems to be much more than that. Proof of that is the abuse Ed Power recieved online for having the temerity to give it a lukewarm review. I have no time for that kind of rubbish. Personally I just see it as a comic book movie. And not a great one at that.

To me a film is more entertaining when it has something to say. Black Panther excelled in its action set pieces in the first two acts as well. I'm bored of meaningless action extravaganzas unless they are doing something truly new and exception, which few films are these days. Black Panther's casino fight really stood out for me in that respect and I actually had goosebumps during parts of it, which is more than I can say for a LOT of the recent fare from Marvel et all.

You felt lectured at, I felt engaged and stimulated. That's where we differ. The current standards of the modern blockbuster have dulled us into accepting mediocrity. There is no reason why I film can't be captivating, entertaining and still have something to say about the human condition.

The Matrix, The Dark Knight, Inception, Gravity, Crouching Tiger... I see no reason why Marvel can't achieve this, except they can't be arsed and that's just laziness pure and simple.

How many of the Marvel films will stand the test of time and be remembered in even a few years from now? I've no problems with popcorn films except that most of them aren't that entertaining any more and aren't bothered excelling in any area, be it action, special effects or whatever, this is a symptom of filmmaking by committee and by directors who have nothing to say and are just doing a job to cash a paycheck.

Memnoch

kerplun k wrote: »

Finally got a chance to watch it tonight. I though it was meh. Can’t believe the 97% RT score and 1.2bl it’s made at the box office. The reaction and performance kinda reminds me of Wonder Woman, both are okay films, helped by movie critics trying to prove they’re not sexist or racist.

Or maybe it just didn't connect with you, perhaps it did connect with hundreds of millions of others?

kerplun k

Memnoch wrote: »

Or maybe it just didn't connect with you, perhaps it did connect with hundreds of millions of others?

Yeah. I think that’s exactly it.

I remember years ago I went to see a film called Sideways by Alexander Payne. I absolutely hated it. For the first time ever, I almost committed the cardinal sin of walking out. About 3 years ago I just happened to flick onto it on TV. I couldn’t believe I was watching the same film. It’s an amazing movie.

Sometimes you just catch a movie at the wrong time.

markodaly

Saw it last night.
Meh, 2/5 I would give it. Don't understand the whole hoopla about it. Its average at best.

It was like Batman meets James Bond meets Shaft meets roots.

Full of cliques. A perfect example is at the end. They end up back in Oakland to rebuild the neighbourhood to help their fellow black man. Eh, would they not go to a place like Sudan or Somalia first, instead of one of the riches states in one of the richest countries in the world, where black people enjoy a better life than any where else in the world (well apart from Wakanda of course.) Oh, you mean its marketed at these very people which belays its 'serious cultural' statement. Right so.

markodaly

Memnoch wrote: »

It's a bit odd, because I would think that Irish people, who very well understand the devastating history of colonialism would be more affected by a story that considers these issues, but if this thread is any guide it's like that entire part of the film which is really where its meat and potatoes are is something that they don't see or care about. Which is interesting in of itself.

People can be affected by these stories for sure, but if the story is cliqued and stupid, marketed at the lowest common denominator, don't try and dress it up like prime fillet steak.

Like, are Irish people supposed to swoon over Tom Cruises' Far and Away because it tells the story of Irish emigration. Nope, because the movie was $hite and forgettable.

The thing is, it doesn't even address the things like racism or colonialism. It just mentions them for 2 seconds and moves on, as if its a given that its that black and white (pardon the pun). Like calling the token white guy who is portrayed in a weak limp fashion as a 'coloniser'. Well, first of all no white person born today is a coloniser, secondly no African uses that term.

If some vernacular dreamt up by a social justice warrior in Hollywood passes for dealing with racism, then they should give up making movies of substance and stick to CGI and all that.

FunLover18

Shuri calling Ross a coloniser wasn't a political statement, it was a joke.

Killmonger's scene in the museum where he points out the inaccuracies and asks the curator if the items were bought for a fair price was a political statement. Killmonger's dying words about being buried at sea with his ancestors who refused to live in chains. This film envisages an entire African nation that has never been colonised, it poses the question of whether that nation is right to hide in light of the exploitation and persecution of African people. This entire film addresses racism and colonialism without actually depicting them and while I don't think the film as a whole is a masterpiece, that is an achievement in of itself and once I suggest that those who don't believe me and don't understand the hype should listen to or read some black voices.

johnny_ultimate

The mere concept of Wakanda reflects on the spectre of historical colonialism, by being an explicitly fantastical contrast to the actual situation in Africa - a continent long-since exploited by colonists, imperialists and other 'western' powers. In the film, Wakanda is an isolated country that has to come to terms with the consequences of opening itself up to the world, and T'Challa's attempts to find the correct path proves one of his key motivators throughout the story.

In the character of Killmonger, however, the film finds its real meat when it comes to addressing history, including more modern history. We have a character driven by generations of both African and American experience - tribal tradition and inner-city tragedy violently clashing. He wants to exact revenge for centuries of exploitation, inequality and violence - his means are profoundly misguided, but the personal and ancestral history the clear driver of everything he does.

The film is also a pretty consistent critique of modern American imperialism. As I mentioned in an earlier post, stints in Afghanistan and Iraq are a key part of Killmonger's backstory, and I don't think it's any coincidence that two of the countries most devastatingly affected by modern militarism are mentioned by name. His plan seems destined to go a similar route - aggression further stoking geopolitical tensions and resentments rather than resolving past ills. It is, after all, the same mistake America has made repeatedly and catastrophically throughout the 20th and 21st centuries (and, with the hawkish John Bolton White House-bound, possibly again in the not so distant future).

At film's end, our protagonist hits on the more radical idea of redistribution of wealth & resources for the common good rather than the selfish reasons we typically see in posturing on the international stage

. Nobody is obliged to agree with the commentary the film makes on these matters, of course, but they're there and an essential framework for the plot.

As for why they end up back in Oakland? Well, inequality is still alive and well in the US of A, with many black communities deeply feeling the impact of that. Black Panther, given its origins, is a story about Africa from a distinctly American perspective, so it's actually welcome to see the film go with that. Ryan Coogler as a director has proven himself to be a passionate chronicler of the modern African-American experience with both Fruitvale Station and Creed, and the film's prologue and epilogue are clearly very personal & important parts of the story for him. In a film that spends much of its time both passively & actively embracing African culture, history & tradition - embedded into the very aesthetics of the thing - and also reflects on the situation in the Middle East, it also more than has the right to address US-centric sociopolitical concerns that are likely to be extremely pertinent to a large amount of the audience (and, indeed, the filmmakers). The film's warm reception in the States goes to show that's very much the case, and to suggest that's solely because of some progressive agenda is pure nonsense. Any given work, after all, can be concerned about multiple perspectives at once

It goes without saying that the pulpy, corporate nature of the material means this is hardly the most probing take on this sort of subject matter. It's all pretty straightforward stuff, although it never felt hectoring (you were rarely a few moments away from the next actiony bit, after all).I'm not sure how much scrutiny it would hold up to from people much more qualified than me to comment on these things. But there's plenty of this stuff in there: it's part of the film's look, sounds, story. Given most blockbusters are content to say nothing at all in favour of cheap thrills, that Black Panther addresses these themes at all is reasonably impressive... that it goes as deep as it does is bordering on a miracle. It doesn't come close to unseating the likes of White Material, Killer of Sheep or The Battle of Algiers or similarly radical takes on these issues, but it stands almost alone in the modern blockbuster sphere. More please!

Slydice

This would've made a lot of sense of some their other scenes!

Gbear

Finally got a chance to see this and it was fine, I suppose.

Some nice set design, costumes and so forth, and the CGI of non-organic stuff was all pretty solid.
The Black Panther suit itself, the rhinos - that's the tricky stuff but it looked pretty poor.

Performances were mostly good. I just don't think Chadwick Boseman works in this role. His dialogue seems stilted and he lacks a bit of presence or poise. I don't think the accent quite works. I could believe everyone was actually Wakandan, except him (and Forrest Whittaker, but only when he said 'Panther').

There's nothing wrong with sticking to the formula. It's always a bad version of the main hero and that's fine. Here they established his motivations quite well and the broader argument about Wakanda entering the global community was interesting.

Mostly, I think it failed on a technical level. Choreography, pacing, stilted dialogue, insufficient building of drama for Killmonger and W'Kabi, generally weightless action and the end battle seemed particularly stupid. They didn't seem bothered about massacring each other.
When the first plane went down, I assumed they'd just sort of disable it. No, they actually killed everyone. I get that it's high stakes, but I don't think they sold the importance of the fact that they just had a little civil war and loads of people died. They were fighting like they were using nerf bats.

You can probably nitpick a lot of Marvel films this way, but few have such rough execution and with things like Thor Ragnarok, or the GOTG films, they're enough fun, and have enough energy and forward momentum, that I was more happy to go along with the odd flat joke or if the finale felt pretty anti-climactic as battles go. With this, I was bored enough for stretches that the cracks were more obvious.

It's interesting contrasting the fantastical action in this at times, with the really heavy-hitting stuff in the Captain America films, or the even more fantastical stuff in Infinity War. The grounding of the first and the attention to detail of the CGI and choreography in the second leave this looking pretty sad by comparison.

There's also the question of treating this film as having a positive message about African culture, but when you couple that to a society that seems to use technology as the only indicator of progress, while they still have a Monarchy and choose that Monarch with a fight to the death, what are you trying to say?
And then at the end, is the paternalistic direction T'Chala wants to take Wakanda supposed to be ironic?

This is pretty low down the list of MCU films in my estimation. Possibly only above Iron Man 2 and 3 and maybe Thor, purely because of how annoying all the dutch angles are. It's certainly not a patch on the Captain Americas or the recent highlights with GotG, Thor and Spiderman.

It seems to be that a lot of the "meh" comments I'm seeing are on Irish sites.

Has me wondering if it's part of our own past as a conquered and colonised nation, while being a white people.
We're told that as white Europeans we are the bad people, which clashes with our own cultural identity. We are viewing American media reactions through our own past.

Panther was a good film but that, for me, was down to the cast. It had major flaws (some of which admittedly come straight out of the comic) but I do think it's worth the hype for being black led in Africa.

Shame how Blade is always forgotten about