Taking over a business with a bad Trip Advisor rating

CelticRambler

Not in Ireland, but I imagine the general principles will be the same anywhere. A local restaurant-owner has increased his efforts to sell his dismal, unfriendly eatery, conveniently located (from my point of view) in an easily accessible, charming mediaeval village, and with signficant potential to serve as a platform for other activities that I've been developing in recent years.

Given that the current owner proudly refuses to accept card payments, I doubt he cares about the dreadful Trip Advisor comments. As a potential investor, I'd be happy to use these as a bargaining tool, but is it possible to quickly and easily recover from a bad Trip Advisor rating with a simple change of management? The name needs to be changed in any case, so what's the protocol there? Does one create a completely new identity and wait for fresh reviews?

I have enough influence with the local media and "miscellaneous other" attributes to be able to generate healthy comment in the immediate vicinity, but the better-spending clientèle would come from further afield, and probably be the type to rely on TA listings (the only source of information for this area). Any suggestions on how to counter a previous owner's marketing incompetence?

Bandara

CelticRambler wrote: »

Not in Ireland, but I imagine the general principles will be the same anywhere. A local restaurant-owner has increased his efforts to sell his dismal, unfriendly eatery, conveniently located (from my point of view) in an easily accessible, charming mediaeval village, and with signficant potential to serve as a platform for other activities that I've been developing in recent years.

Given that the current owner proudly refuses to accept card payments, I doubt he cares about the dreadful Trip Advisor comments. As a potential investor, I'd be happy to use these as a bargaining tool, but is it possible to quickly and easily recover from a bad Trip Advisor rating with a simple change of management? The name needs to be changed in any case, so what's the protocol there? Does one create a completely new identity and wait for fresh reviews?

I have enough influence with the local media and "miscellaneous other" attributes to be able to generate healthy comment in the immediate vicinity, but the better-spending clientèle would come from further afield, and probably be the type to rely on TA listings (the only source of information for this area). Any suggestions on how to counter a previous owner's marketing incompetence?

Just open it as a new restaurant that looks different and has a different name.

That's all.

And start registering ten or so different tripadvisor accounts over the next while and build up a profile on each so you can give yourself a highly rated presence on ta once you open.

Be aware not to do it from the same IP as they track that

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Bandara wrote: »

Just open it as a new restaurant that looks different and has a different name.

That's all.

And start registering ten or so different tripadvisor accounts over the next while and build up a profile on each so you can give yourself a highly rated presence on ta once you open.

Be aware not to do it from the same IP as they track that

Posting fake reviews is hardly the best solution.

CelticRambler

Yeah, I'm not above a bit of fakery when the circumstances require it, but I can think of better/easier ways to do it than setting up multiple identities of my own.

Bandara wrote: »

Just open it as a new restaurant that looks different and has a different name.

Unfortunately, the look is one of the selling points, plus the fact that it's an historic building, so there's not much possibility of making it look very different.

What about taking it over and then shutting it down before re-opening with a new name? Does TA allow you (as an owner or a contributor) to declare that somewhere has permanently closed?

Bandara

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Posting fake reviews is hardly the best solution.

Never said it was

It is however a route that makes a lot of sense.

If your judging the likelihood of customers coming to you based on tripadvisor reviews, then it's obviously advantageous to ensure the reviews start out favourably and get you over the bad impressions that the previous owners created

Bandara

CelticRambler wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not above a bit of fakery when the circumstances require it, but I can think of better/easier ways to do it than setting up multiple identities of my own.



Unfortunately, the look is one of the selling points, plus the fact that it's an historic building, so there's not much possibility of making it look very different.

What about taking it over and then shutting it down before re-opening with a new name? Does TA allow you (as an owner or a contributor) to declare that somewhere has permanently closed?

TA don't care tbh

They are a joke of a company and have not much interest in anything excepting the Hotel and Tours side of things where they get their kickbacks from The hotel booking sites and Tour booking sites

You just notify them of your new restaurant in such a location, it gets listed and off you go

The previous site just falls back into history and people going forward use your new name to post reviews and ergo your restaurant builds it profile as per normal.

We setup a restaurant on tripadvisor once for a tv appearance we were asked to do on this topic. We posted multiple reviews on our phantom restaurant, comparing it to three star Michelin. We provided management pictures etc showing a small dirty concrete shed, the food pictures were plate of plain rice etc and listed the location to be in a third world country.

Tripadvisor listed it, accepted all reviews, and when queried on it and pointed out to them it was a made up location they insisted it existed etc. Bizarre.

I wouldn't worry about it.

CelticRambler

I accept the limitations of TA. However, our local tourist board spends all it's budget on producing out-of-date glossy brochures and crappy videos intended to convince the Parisians that they should spend a couple of hours here (maybe, if it's not too much trouble). As far as Atout-France is concerned (France's equivalent of Bord Failte), our region does not exist. :eek: This makes TA the only centralised source of ratings for accommodation, restaurants, things to do, etc. for the intrepid foreigners (or faraway-French visitors) who decide to investigate the blank zone on the map.

However, if it's as easy as to create a new identity as it was for the phantom above, then I don't see any problem.

Just need to arrange to have a poke around in the cellars now ... :pac:

pedroeibar1

The first thing you do is forget the previous owner and his marketing incompetence.

I think your issues run deeper than TA.. You never mentioned the attitude of the chef & staff, given the outlook of the dinosaur in charge. Change there will be difficult if they do not fit your outlook, given their rights under French employment law.

You say that you have influence with the local media and "miscellaneous other" attributes to be able to generate healthy comment in the immediate vicinity, but the better-spending clientèle would come from further afield, and probably be the type to rely on TA listings.

Most people can get publicity, but it is useless without a good underlying product, and without that PR creates false expectations and the result is actually negative. Where will the preponderance of your customers originate? France local, France ‘grandes villes’ or from abroad? Can you stand the cash-flow issues? If you think of most medieval villages, they get a summer clientele and their restaus usually close out of season. If you need a steady local trade it will be word of mouth and because local media comment is fine for local custom, but you need Bottin Gourmand or Michelin for the upper-end (Paris) & French market – TA does not really count for them (or most discerning foodies from o/seas).

People search TA by destination name – so, as Bandara says change the restaurant name, make a few decor changes internally, change the menu, etc. If the old TA site had external photos, do new ones from different angles (can you do one from a drone?) – if that is not possible use night-time photos as they will give a completely different image. Write and get friends to write a few reviews.

What will you specialize in? Could you concentrate on ‘terroir’ produce – food and wine – and create a niche?

Vienne or Le Vezelay were hardly the centre of the universe yet look at what was achieved there. Also I think you are a bit severe / dismissive on Atout Fr, I’ve been canvassed by them in the past (admittedly a good few years ago) and I found them a very impressive operation.

CelticRambler

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I think your issues run deeper than TA.. You never mentioned the attitude of the chef & staff, given the outlook of the dinosaur in charge. Change there will be difficult if they do not fit your outlook, given their rights under French employment law.

The chef & staff is/are the previous owner! It's a typical one-man-one-woman badly-run French businesses, both hanging on doing a job they (obviously) despise because they can't afford to retire without the proceeds from the sale ...

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

What will you specialize in? Could you concentrate on ‘terroir’ produce – food and wine – and create a niche?

Vienne or Le Vezelay were hardly the centre of the universe yet look at what was achieved there. Also I think you are a bit severe / dismissive on Atout Fr, I’ve been canvassed by them in the past (admittedly a good few years ago) and I found them a very impressive operation.

I've had a lot of contact with Atout France. They only mention our area on the French version of their site, and then only because the road to somewhere else goes through it! :pac:

Our local tourism development agency doesn't deal with, or try to attract, foreigners. When I asked the director why not, she answered "why would they want to come here?". Not a joke.

This town isn't quite as substantial as Vezelay, but has almost as much character, and the wider area has had a very interesting 2000 years. But you wouldn't know it from talking to the natives.

All the restaurants around here that are run by foreigners (mostly British and Dutch) do well throughout the year. My intention would be to add a shop, art gallery and (very) small performance space to the restaurant, as part of a bigger project.

pedroeibar1

In using TA it is IMO critical to respond to comments, both positive and negative. It give you an opportunity to give your side of the story, either a ‘Thank you for your nice comment, we are delighted you enjoyed your evening’ or ‘We are disappointed you did not etc,…’

I would not give up on Atout France- but I would be careful not to “emmerder” the local tourist people – is it at Regional or town / commune level? I would go to them and say that you need to promote your business and if more assistance is not forthcoming you will be forced to go direct to Atout F for assistance. I would contact them anyway to find out if there is a ‘cluster’ or other ‘adherents’ in your area/region, AF are (according to their website) encouraging these clusters. I’d also try to ascertain from them the contact details for one of their ‘stagiaires’ (I’m not up to speed on what replaced VSNE) and get him/her involved. Some of them are very bright and always on the look-out for a project. Have a business plan, or use the stagiaire to write it with you. There are a couple of dozen ecoles de tourisme in France – is there one in your Region? Stagiaires often are desperate for a project. In France ‘l’Administration’ love a good report, ‘forme’ often is more important than ‘contenu’ and French format is quite different to the Anglo one, so the stagiaire would be invaluable for that.

It sounds like a project with great potential (and a lot of challenges/hurdles to overcome.)

You really need to decide who your customers will be – local French/local foreigners/voyageurs - without lots of them early on, you can get nowhere; in hand with that you need to decide on what should be the emphasis of your food niche – international (steak-frites) or regional delicacies (andouillettes/ poularde de Bresse / whatever) from your region. A gallery would only work IMO if you had a high content of foreign/tourist customers, locals tend not to buy. For winter months you could team up with a local hotel and use the restau as a cookery & wine school, showcasing local cooking and produce.

A big issue is that you are an ‘outsider’ and even worse, a foreign outsider. It’s no different in Ireland, I’ve seen some great projects killed because the begrudgers in a small village opposed them simply because it was located in ‘the other side of the village’ or it was a FF person instead of FG, or ‘who does she think she is coming in here and telling us what to do’.
Sensibilities are very important.

CelticRambler

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

A big issue is that you are an ‘outsider’ and even worse, a foreign outsider.

Fortunately, I've been here long enough and emmerder'd enough people in the tourist development agency and elsewhere for this to now be seen as positive attribute (even found out during the Euros that I'm the local radio's go-to guy for comment on anything Irish! :pac: )

I've been building this project for several years - just took some time out while waiting for various "told you so" events to unfold and make my proposition look even more attractive - so most of what I need to do with/to/for the various local agencies has already been done.

The availability of this particular restaurant at this time was unexpected, and I've only ever dealt with good TA places before, so wanted to know how best to wipe that slate clean if I decide to move forward. If I do, I'll be back looking for input on other aspects of the operation.

pedroeibar1

As Bandara said in #2, change the name and re-launch. TA = "Under dynamic new owner-managers, improved decor, menu and service, we are now open for business, etc."

Forget the slate, it's clean from the time you buy, few are interested in the past once new owners are in place.
From your last post you obviously have done the homework, so best of luck with it.

ironclaw

For what it's worth, I travel a good deal on business and TripAdvisor / Yelp are my go to for finding dinner and lunch. I never bother with the top reviews, I only read the Poor or Terrible. You can tell a lot from a place from them as they are either nonsense (Local seagulls ruined my breakfast was my personal favourite for a Ritz location) or highlight the real issues of the venue that those less concerned skip over e.g. 'Poor cleaning' I admire and it's definitely a plus if the restaurant is active in responding to reviews and issues.

I've found it fairly common to find a comment or two that will say 'Under new management' or 'Must better / worse under the new name XYZ', as such, I wouldn't overly concern yourself with the poor TA reviews, just do a through rebrand. I'd also consider Yelp as it's far more popular Stateside and plenty of American's use it when on European soil.

CelticRambler

Thanks for that, ironclaw. Will see if this place features on Yelp.

I use the "poor/terrible" test too (not just for TA) ... but in this case, that's all there is! "Was put off by seeing the chef urinating in the terrace flower-boxes" would probably summarise my preconceived idea of the place. I've never eaten there, mainly because there's no indication of opening hours (anywhere) and any of my visitors who'd like to treat me to a meal are put off by the in-your-face notices refusing card payments. :eek:

However, I've now had a chance to view the property, from cellar to attic, and discuss the situation with the current owners. Reading between the lines, there are no accounts for the business :rolleyes: so the restaurant element is more or less being given away with the purchase of the building. There's more potential on the upper floors than I thought (four guest rooms that could be rented out) ... and a full bar licence that's under-exploited. :pac:

Almost a bargain at 150k ...