Issues getting a PPSN (proof required for wanting one)

Kai123

Hello,

A family member moved over a month ago to live and work in Ireland.

We booked an appointment for the office at Parnell Street to get him a PPSN. We rocked up with all the documentation but were told by the person processing this that they are unable to provide him with a PPSN until he can prove why he wants one.

He recommended that we go to the local welfare office (Blanch), and get them to e-mail him so he can finalise the process (he gave us his e-mail).

At the Intreo office, no-one knew anything about this. The person at registration was really confused and kept telling us we had to book an appointment at the PPSN office etc etc. Eventually someone came out after checking with a manager and told us he needs a letter from an employer before he can get a PPSN.

She was pretty rude so the family member left raging. I asked someone else at the office and they had never heard of this, so they sent us up to Citizens Information, where we were told what we already know. Someone from the Intreo office came up and was very apologetic and mentioned they were in touch with a manager who said the agent was in the wrong and the PPSN should of been processed there and then.

The manager at Parnell Street never heard of the guy who processed this, but sent him an e-mail asking why he was asking for proof.

TL:DR - Is asking for a reason why a PPSN a thing now? We were getting mixed messages from two different departments.

From what I know, he should be able to get a PPSN since he is from the UK, it shouldn't be a problem. Even with his National Insurance number its enough to have a PPSN.

Sorry for the long post!

Kai.

Atlantic Dawn

Just tell them he's looking for a job?

Kai123

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Just tell them he's looking for a job?

We did. They said they need a letter from an employer before they can give him a PPSN (should of mentioned that in the OP).

Nomis21

Ppsn numbers were being used by illegal immigrants so conditions changed for getting a number. Now you need a job before applying for a ppsn.

Sue Ellen

Proof of why you require a PPSN is part of the application process. To get a PPSN you must have a valid reason. Looking for work is not a sufficient reason as a PPSN is not required to look for work. When they find work produce a copy of a contract and they can complete the application. Most offices would not process any part of the application without the proof.
The requirements are on www.welfare.ie search PPSN

Speedwell

If you are a tenant, you can also use your rental agreement as proof you need a PPS number, according to information received by the Office for the Promotion of Migrant Integration: http://www.integration.ie/website/omi/omiwebv6.nsf/page/infoformigrants-pps-en (second paragraph of text in red).

mp22

Sue Ellen wrote: »

Proof of why you require a PPSN is part of the application process. To get a PPSN you must have a valid reason. Looking for work is not a sufficient reason as a PPSN is not required to look for work. When they find work produce a copy of a contract and they can complete the application. Most offices would not process any part of the application without the proof.
The requirements are on www.welfare.ie search PPSN

Link http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-How-to-Apply.aspx

Kai123

Hello,

Thanks for all the replies. There was alot of confusion due to this, since both offices were contradicting each other and themselves.

He should be employed fairly soon. I'm assuming once that happens he can claim back on his UK tax credits from the date me moved here?

Kai.

StevenE

I'm applying for my PPSN today. Although I have the same issues as the OP, my reason for applying is because I need the PPSN to be able to take the car I imported with me when I moved for its VRT, which I have to do within 30 days.
Reading this is worrying, but at least I can ask the question "how do I get my car in for a VRT if you won't issue a PPSN which is a requirement?"
I will update later!

sweirdo

I have the same problem! Am moving to Ireland in May and am getting married in October. I have the appointment to serve notice in June and on the checklist it says that I'd need a PPSN. Which I can't get without proof. And the GRO won't provide me with any proof, because they are saying that they don't need one (?) while sending me the checklist saying I do need one.
Anyone been in the same situation? Will the checklist with our appointment be sufficient proof?

Cushie Butterfield

sweirdo wrote: »

I have the same problem! Am moving to Ireland in May and am getting married in October. I have the appointment to serve notice in June and on the checklist it says that I'd need a PPSN. Which I can't get without proof. And the GRO won't provide me with any proof, because they are saying that they don't need one (?) while sending me the checklist saying I do need one.
Anyone been in the same situation? Will the checklist with our appointment be sufficient proof?

According to the GRO section of the welfare site https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Getting_Married.aspx

In general, all couples will be asked to produce:-

- PPSN - All parties serving notice of intention to marry, who have a current address within the state and/or a future address within the state, must provide a PPSN

Further down in the Checklist section:
Documents required when giving Notification:-

If either party is a foreign national, their immigration status documentation (must be in date). A ‘foreign national’ means a person who is neither an Irish citizen, nor a citizen of a member state:

- PPS Number / Public Service Card (where applicable)

I would take that to mean that if you are an EU citizen the requirement for a PPS number isn’t applicable at this stage of proceedings.

sweirdo

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

sweirdo wrote: »

I have the same problem! Am moving to Ireland in May and am getting married in October. I have the appointment to serve notice in June and on the checklist it says that I'd need a PPSN. Which I can't get without proof. And the GRO won't provide me with any proof, because they are saying that they don't need one (?) while sending me the checklist saying I do need one.
Anyone been in the same situation? Will the checklist with our appointment be sufficient proof?

According to the GRO section of the welfare site https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Getting_Married.aspx

In general, all couples will be asked to produce:-

- PPSN - All parties serving notice of intention to marry, who have a current address within the state and/or a future address within the state, must provide a PPSN

Further down in the Checklist section:
Documents required when giving Notification:-

If either party is a foreign national, their immigration status documentation (must be in date). A ‘foreign national’ means a person who is neither an Irish citizen, nor a citizen of a member state:

- PPS Number / Public Service Card (where applicable)

I would take that to mean that if you are an EU citizen the requirement for a PPS number isn’t applicable at this stage of proceedings.

Alright, thanks. That helps me to ease my mind a little. Just when I'm serving notice I will have an address within the state, that's what I'm a bit worried about. But will I have to tell them that? I don't know if they'll even ask. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Cushie Butterfield

sweirdo wrote: »

Alright, thanks. That helps me to ease my mind a little. Just when I'm serving notice I will have an address within the state, that's what I'm a bit worried about. But will I have to tell them that? I don't know if they'll even ask. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

The chances are the matter won’t come up, & if it does just tell the truth which is you tried & you were told you didn’t need one yet & will try again once you have settled in at a permanent address. It’s not as if you’re non-EU & in some way attempting to circumvent immigration laws, so don’t overthink things as regards a PPS number - as soon as you need one & it’s deemed that you need one you shouldn’t have any problems getting one.

sweirdo

Alright, thanks. Well, I can always show them the printed email and then they shouldn't be complaining, as I have written proof in case there was some misinformation

Squatter

One completely legitimate reason for anyone coming to Ireland from another EU/EEA country to seek a PPSN either for themself or for their partner/kids is so they can apply for a Medical Card.

LirW

Squatter wrote: »

One completely legitimate reason for anyone coming to Ireland from another EU/EEA country to seek a PPSN is so that they can to apply for a Medical Card.

I just wanted to mention that, apparently you can get a PPSN when you need access to the public medical services.
When I moved to Ireland, I got pregnant just before started a job I had lined up, I got a letter from the GP and could apply and get my PPSN.

sweirdo

LirW wrote: »

Squatter wrote: »

One completely legitimate reason for anyone coming to Ireland from another EU/EEA country to seek a PPSN is so that they can to apply for a Medical Card.

I just wanted to mention that, apparently you can get a PPSN when you need access to the public medical services.
When I moved to Ireland, I got pregnant just before started a job I had lined up, I got a letter from the GP and could apply and get my PPSN.

The GP route sounds like a good one to take, maybe I can ask my fiancé if his GP would do that, since I'll probably go to the same GP

Cushie Butterfield

sweirdo wrote: »

The GP route sounds like a good one to take, maybe I can ask my fiancé if his GP would do that, since I'll probably go to the same GP

Don’t put the cart before the horse!

You don’t need a PPSN at this point in time. You don’t live in Ireland yet.

There’s no point or advantage to you in attempting to circumvent the system for something that you don’t need, & are not at this point in time entitled to. A GP is not going to knowingly falsify documentation on your behalf just because you have a fixation on getting a PPSN before you’re entitled to one, or for any other reason.

When you move here permanently you will have more than enough reasons to apply as you’ll have legitimate reasons to get one.

Forget about a PPSN for now & concentrate on tying up loose ends in Germany & your wedding preparations.

Cushie Butterfield

LirW wrote: »

I just wanted to mention that, apparently you can get a PPSN when you need access to the public medical services.
When I moved to Ireland, I got pregnant just before started a job I had lined up, I got a letter from the GP and could apply and get my PPSN.

Yes, because you were currently living in Ireland.

LirW

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Yes, because you were currently living in Ireland.

It's the same with OP's relative, they are here for a month. I was living here at the time for a bit over 2 months.

Cushie Butterfield

LirW wrote: »

It's the same with OP's relative, they are here for a month. I was living here at the time for a bit over 2 months.

The OPs (Kai123) post dates back to July 2016, so no doubt they have a PPSN by this.

Thread has moved on & the current poster (sweirdo) lives in Germany & hasn’t moved to Ireland yet.

LirW

Sorry, didn't see that.
Still something that can be looked into since it's the easiest way.

Cushie Butterfield

LirW wrote: »

Sorry, didn't see that.
Still something that can be looked into since it's the easiest way.

Oh absolutely, if he requires medical attention but as things stand he’ll just have to wait til he has actually moved here like everyone else does.

He’s already been told this by the GRO.

Not having a PPSN will not affect his ability to give notice of intention to marry, or to get married. He’s just overthinking things.

LirW

A PPS number is required for all parties serving notice of intention to marry, who have a current or a future address within the State

That's what citizens information says about it. Made the appointment myself last week and we were asked if I'm living here because I need a PPS.

TeaBagMania

you also need a pps number to get a drivers license, if you're in the country legally they should issue one based on that information

https://www.ndls.ie/images/Documents/DrivingLicence/Full%20Licence%20Application%20Guidance%20Notes.pdf

Cushie Butterfield

TeaBagMania wrote: »

you also need a pps number to get a drivers license, if you're in the country legally they should issue one based on that information

https://www.ndls.ie/images/Documents/DrivingLicence/Full%20Licence%20Application%20Guidance%20Notes.pdf

You have to be normally resident in Ireland in order to be issued with an Irish Driver’s Licence, same goes for exchanging licenses issued in other qualifying countries. He’ll still have to wait until that is the case & can’t be organized when he still resides in Germany.

Cushie Butterfield

LirW wrote: »

That's what citizens information says about it.

It certainly is, as does the GRO website that I linked to in post #11.

The problem is that the GRO is not on the list of specified state agencies or govt bodies that require one, so that’s why the GRO can’t give him anything in writing to say that he needs one. If he hasn’t had any official transactions with any of the specified agencies or bodies in the past (where a PPSN was required) then he is not required to have a PPSN until he does, & the other party’s PPSN is suffice for their dealings with the GRO in this instance.

Again, as soon as he moves over he will have a choice of valid reasons to apply for & be issued with a PPSN, he just will not be issued one when he resides outside Ireland.

LirW

Again, as soon as he moves over he will have a choice of valid reasons to apply for & be issued with a PPSN, he just will not be issued one when he resides outside Ireland.

j

Might be good to mention that it is an absolute pain getting a PPSN when you don't have a "valid" reason. I wanted to apply for one just a few weeks after I picked up residency in Ireland, where I was in the process of looking for a job. I walked into the office with my paperwork and they said I do not have a valid reason for applying for a PPSN, I don't need one residing in Ireland. Even though you need one for opening a bank account, or a license or tax reasons. By now you need it for so many things. Okay, so I was stuck, I asked if there was anything I could do for getting a PPSN fast and the answer was that I have to get a job, because that would be a valid reason in connection with a few other documents.
Then I found out I'm pregnant not too long afterwards, went to the GP, told them I don't have a PPSN. He gave me a letter and that should do, I went in again with my paperwork and the whole thing was done within 20 minutes.
There are a few new residents that struggle for getting the PPSN in the first 2 - 3 months because they lack the reason (even though you need it for pretty much anything by now) and the lack of proof of address (because there are literally no utility bills that you get in the beginning).

My experience was 2 years ago.

sweirdo

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

sweirdo wrote: »

The GP route sounds like a good one to take, maybe I can ask my fiancé if his GP would do that, since I'll probably go to the same GP

Don’t put the cart before the horse!

You don’t need a PPSN at this point in time. You don’t live in Ireland yet.

There’s no point or advantage to you in attempting to circumvent the system for something that you don’t need, & are not at this point in time entitled to. A GP is not going to knowingly falsify documentation on your behalf just because you have a fixation on getting a PPSN before you’re entitled to one, or for any other reason.

When you move here permanently you will have more than enough reasons to apply as you’ll have legitimate reasons to get one.

Forget about a PPSN for now & concentrate on tying up loose ends in Germany & your wedding preparations.

I know I can't get one yet, but since my move isn't that far away by now I was trying to inform myself on the possibilities I have once I get there. Not trying to circumvent the system. Just trying to be informed and have my **** together when I'm there instead of not having a clue and being totally unprepared.
Sorry for informing myself.

Cushie Butterfield

sweirdo wrote: »

I know I can't get one yet, but since my move isn't that far away by now I was trying to inform myself on the possibilities I have once I get there. Not trying to circumvent the system. Just trying to be informed and have my **** together when I'm there instead of not having a clue and being totally unprepared.
Sorry for informing myself.

If you say so, so be it.

Squatter

LirW wrote: »

j

There are a few new residents that struggle for getting the PPSN in the first 2 - 3 months because they lack the reason (even though you need it for pretty much anything by now) and the lack of proof of address (because there are literally no utility bills that you get in the beginning).

My understanding is that Social Welfare will accept a utility bill in someone else's name as proof of address if the account holder signs the bill and confirms that the applicant is living there.

LirW

Squatter wrote: »

My understanding is that Social Welfare will accept a utility bill in someone else's name as proof of address if the account holder signs the bill and confirms that the applicant is living there.

I did it this way since I was living with my In-laws back then.
But for plenty it is a bit of a pain, when they deal with a lazy landlord but don't have utility bills in their own name just yet.