Dogs stomach bugs?

Bells21

Hi All, our JRTx had a dodgy tummy during the week, very runny poops, no blood etc in them and over all seemed to be in good spirits. We fasted him for one day and then we fed chicken and rice for a few days and that seemed to solve the problem. However today our other dog also had the same issue and was also sick. Nothing has changed in terms of food or their environment this week so I'm unsure as to what may have caused it. I'm just wondering do dogs catch 'tummy bugs' like humans and can they be passed to each other? Apologies if this seems like a ridiculous question but it just got me wondering.

maggiepip

They can definitely catch tummy bugs, in fact 2 of my dogs had the runs last week. I wasn't sure whether it coincidentally happened both due to the heat we had, or if it was just a mild bug they both got.

Bells21

maggiepip wrote:

They can definitely catch tummy bugs, in fact 2 of my dogs had the runs last week. I wasn't sure whether it coincidentally happened both due to the heat we had, or if it was just a mild bug they both got.

I was wondering if the heat had played a part alright. They're both grand I was just curious as to whether they could pass bugs to each other. Thanks.

Gael23

I'd say it's quite possible, particularly if they play with each other and access the same outdoor space they are going to pick up the same things. Bland food for a day or so and he'll be fine.

DBB

They can indeed catch bugs from one another, and we can catch tummy bugs from them too!
Just as an aside, it is no longer advised to fast dogs with tummy bugs, unless they choose not to eat. It affects their gut motility and can make things worse before they get better.

Bells21

DBB wrote:

Just as an aside, it is no longer advised to fast dogs with tummy bugs, unless they choose not to eat. It affects their gut motility and can make things worse before they get better.

Thanks, I didn't realise that. Thankfully both are back to their usual selves now.

aonb

OP could they be picking up something yukky to eat while outside, or while out on walks. One of my dogs seems to treat walks like buffets - ALWAYS finds something to eat

dishdash

DBB wrote: »

They can indeed catch bugs from one another, and we can catch tummy bugs from them too!
Just as an aside, it is no longer advised to fast dogs with tummy bugs, unless they choose not to eat. It affects their gut motility and can make things worse before they get better.

I don't think you should be dispensing this kind of advice, regarding fasting or not fasting.
The correct advice is to discuss care with a vet. This might involve a visit to the vets or even a phone call.

maggiepip

dishdash wrote: »

I don't think you should be dispensing this kind of advice, regarding fasting or not fasting.
The correct advice is to discuss care with a vet. This might involve a visit to the vets or even a phone call.

Don't be so silly!!!....Vets now advise not to fast for long periods with an upset stomach. There's no need to be running to the vet at the first sign of a sloppy poo.

tk123

The answer to upset tummies is tripe - assuming your tummy can handle the stink! :pac:

Bells21

tk123 wrote:

The answer to upset tummies is tripe - assuming your tummy can handle the stink!

I'm sure the dogs would love it.....not sure I would though ðŸ˜

dishdash

maggiepip wrote: »

Don't be so silly!!!....Vets now advise not to fast for long periods with an upset stomach. There's no need to be running to the vet at the first sign of a sloppy poo.

Yes, vets advise.
People on online forums shouldn't
Get my point ?

Bells21

dishdash wrote:

Yes, vets advise. People on online forums shouldn't Get my point ?

I think the advice that was offered was very much common sense. If I felt my dogs needed vet attention or advice then that's the path I would've chosen. I would say the majority of dog owners know how to deal with a simple upset tummy and it would be in the ways that were suggested above. I was simply curious as to whether or not dogs can contract tummy bugs from each other and I think the other posters answered that question and were also kindly offering sensible basic advice.

DBB

dishdash wrote: »

The correct advice is to discuss care with a vet. This might involve a visit to the vets or even a phone call.

You're quite right that medical advice shouldn't be given. But it's absolutely standard pet-owning knowledge that fasting is no longer advised for a puking or runny dog... If he'll eat, give him food. According to the various vets I've talked to about it anyway.
It stands to reason that the owner should consult their vet if they're worried. In this case, I think it was pretty clear that the op hadn't asked their vet whether to feed the dog or not. If they had, they'd have been told to offer food to the dog.

Bells21

DBB wrote:

You're quite right that medical advice shouldn't be given. But it's absolutely standard pet-owning knowledge that fasting is no longer advised for a puking or runny dog... If he'll eat, give him food. According to the various vets I've talked to about it anyway. It stands to reason that the owner should consult their vet if they're worried. In this case, I think it was pretty clear that the op hadn't asked their vet whether to feed the dog or not. If they had, they'd have been told to offer food to the dog.

You're right I hadn't spoken to my vet as I didn't feel there was any great need to. I'm happy to be corrected on the fasting issue and I suppose it's common sense if a dog is completely unwell they're more likely to refuse food but if it's offered and they're happy to eat then there would be no reason not to allow them food. I will know for the next time. You learn something new every day ðŸ˜

DBB

Not getting at you at all there op! I don't consult the vet for every tummy upset either! If the dog is eating and drinking, and in good form, and it doesn't last longer than a day or two, chances are everything is OK

Bells21

DBB wrote:

Not getting at you at all there op! I don't consult the vet for every tummy upset either! If the dog is eating and drinking, and in good form, and it doesn't last longer than a day or two, chances are everything is OK

I didn't take it that way at all and as I said I do appreciate the up to date advice re fasting

dishdash

DBB wrote: »

You're quite right that medical advice shouldn't be given. But it's absolutely standard pet-owning knowledge that fasting is no longer advised for a puking or runny dog... If he'll eat, give him food. According to the various vets I've talked to about it anyway.
It stands to reason that the owner should consult their vet if they're worried. In this case, I think it was pretty clear that the op hadn't asked their vet whether to feed the dog or not. If they had, they'd have been told to offer food to the dog.

"According to various vets...."???
It is absolutely not standard pet owning knowledge that fasting is not required. You are wrong- this may, or may not be the approach, depending on the diagnosis, but any vet I ever met recommended fasting...

I quote from the Merck Veterinary Manual "Follow your veterinarian's recommendations for diet. You may be asked to withhold food for 1 or 2 days to “rest” the animal's digestive system."- in relation to gastrointestinal disorders.

Personally, I'd be inclined to phone my vet and go with his or her advice. I wouldn't dream of advising in the way you just have-

I must say I'm a bit disappointed that advice given here is not prefaced with "see your vet if in any doubt"

tk123

dishdash wrote: »

"According to various vets...."???
It is absolutely not standard pet owning knowledge that fasting is not required. You are wrong- this may, or may not be the approach, depending on the diagnosis, but any vet I ever met recommended fasting...

I quote from the Merck Veterinary Manual "Follow your veterinarian's recommendations for diet. You may be asked to withhold food for 1 or 2 days to “rest” the animal's digestive system."- in relation to gastrointestinal disorders.

Personally, I'd be inclined to phone my vet and go with his or her advice. I wouldn't dream of advising in the way you just have-

I must say I'm a bit disappointed that advice given here is not prefaced with "see your vet if in any doubt"

I was told 5 years ago not to fast my dog and everyone I know who goes to that practice has been told the same thing so it's common knowledge in my area. I know it was 5 years ago because it was before my dog had an operation on his leg. As soon as he was finished recovering I threw any advice the vet ever gave me about his diet and changed it completely!

I don't call my vet every time my dog has an upset tummy - she's far too busy treating animals that are actually sick/injured. The same way I don't call my own GP if I have a runny poo or dodgy tummy!

dishdash

tk123 wrote: »

I was told 5 years ago not to fast my dog and everyone I know who goes to that practice has been told the same thing so it's common knowledge in my area. I know it was 5 years ago because it was before my dog had an operation on his leg. As soon as he was finished recovering I threw any advice the vet ever gave me about his diet and changed it completely!

I don't call my vet every time my dog has an upset tummy - she's far too busy treating animals that are actually sick/injured. The same way I don't call my own GP if I have a runny poo or dodgy tummy!

Thanks for your views. I'm not in a position to advise you or engage in a debate on this. It's a job for a vet to advise thus and I would recommend any poster to contact their vet and follow the advice given rather than anything that might be written or said on an online forum.

tk123

dishdash wrote: »

Thanks for your views. I'm not in a position to advise you or engage in a debate on this.

That's because you trolling and have no idea what you're talking about.

As an experienced dog owner I'm in a perfect position to engage in a debate on how to treat an upset tummy and how to clean colitis slime poo from soft furnishings and fur at 2:00am.

DBB

dishdash wrote: »

"According to various vets...."???
It is absolutely not standard pet owning knowledge that fasting is not required. You are wrong- this may, or may not be the approach, depending on the diagnosis, but any vet I ever met recommended fasting...

I quote from the Merck Veterinary Manual "Follow your veterinarian's recommendations for diet. You may be asked to withhold food for 1 or 2 days to “rest” the animal's digestive system."- in relation to gastrointestinal disorders.

Which edition of the Merck Manual are you referring to? I ask this because it's only in the reasonably recent past that the research that drives best practise has led vets to now advise owners not to fast their dogs any more if the dog is willing to eat. I refered to "various vets" because they informed me of this relatively new change in procedure.
You think I'm wrong? I'll go with the research and what I've been told by the various vets I've spoken to

DBB

tk123, it's against the forum charter to accuse a poster on-thread of trolling.
Thanks,
DBB

dishdash

DBB wrote: »

Which edition of the Merck Manual are you referring to? I ask this because it's only in the reasonably recent past that the research that drives best practise has led vets to now advise owners not to fast their dogs any more if the dog is willing to eat. I refered to "various vets" because they informed me of this relatively new change in procedure.
You think I'm wrong? I'll go with the research and what I've been told by the various vets I've spoken to

I do think you are wrong, with respect. But I'm not in a position to really advise.
If you could provide me with pinnacle points of the evidence based medicine pyramid, such as a systematic review or meta-analysis on the matter in question, supporting your viewpoint, yes, I would be willing to change my views on this- if my vet looked at the material and advised me to do so.
I referred to the latest version of Merck, available online, but the most important point of reference- to go back to my original point- is one's vet, and not online advice.
Go to your vet for advice- that's my viewpoint.

Bells21

dishdash wrote:

I do think you are wrong, with respect. But I'm not in a position to really advise. If you could provide me with pinnacle points of the evidence based medicine pyramid, such as a systematic review or meta-analysis on the matter in question, supporting your viewpoint, yes, I would be willing to change my views on this- if my vet looked at the material and advised me to do so. I referred to the latest version of Merck, available online, but the most important point of reference- to go back to my original point- is one's vet, and not online advice. Go to your vet for advice- that's my viewpoint.

Just as an observation, you haven't once addressed my original question. I wasn't looking for medical advice, I was simply curious as to whether or not they could catch tummy bugs from each other.

dishdash

Bells21 wrote: »

Just as an observation, you haven't once addressed my original question. I wasn't looking for medical advice, I was simply curious as to whether or not they could catch tummy bugs from each other.

I'm sorry- I really don't know the answer to that

TitianGerm

It's gotten pretty crazy in here

http://imgur.com/b853DZN

borderlinemeath

They definitely can catch them from each other OP. One of my dogs got something a few weeks back, nothing too bad, a runny bum and farts that would clear the room! She never stopped eating - and in my vast dog owning experience I never thought to drag her into the vets where she gets stressed to be told that she just had a bug and to feed her bland foods.

But fast forward and my youngest dog got it. Probably from sharing water bowls or close contact as they sleep side by side and play together every day. He seemed to get a nastier dose, he stopped eating, even refusing treats, although he was still full of beans and wasn't lethargic. The self imposed fast only lasted 24hrs and he was back eating. Our third dog didn't catch anything, but maybe I've been more fastidious about cleaning the water bowls since the baby caught it. I actually thought our oldest dog had got it from eating something yucky on the beach rather than a bug.

Bells21

borderlinemeath wrote:

But fast forward and my youngest dog got it. Probably from sharing water bowls or close contact as they sleep side by side and play together every day. He seemed to get a nastier dose, he stopped eating, even refusing treats, although he was still full of beans and wasn't lethargic. The self imposed fast only lasted 24hrs and he was back eating. Our third dog didn't catch anything, but maybe I've been more fastidious about cleaning the water bowls since the baby caught it. I actually thought our oldest dog had got it from eating something yucky on the beach rather than a bug.
They definitely can catch them from each other OP. One of my dogs got something a few weeks back, nothing too bad, a runny bum and farts that would clear the room! She never stopped eating - and in my vast dog owning experience I never thought to drag her into the vets where she gets stressed to be told that she just had a bug and to feed her bland foods.

Thanks, I haven't narrowed down what the cause could have been. The first dog didn't have it so bad but our dog who subsequently had it refused food and even treats but got up this morning and couldn't wait for her food so all's well that ends well.

dishdash

amoosing 😀

DBB

dishdash wrote: »

I do think you are wrong, with respect. But I'm not in a position to really advise.
If you could provide me with pinnacle points of the evidence based medicine pyramid, such as a systematic review or meta-analysis on the matter in question, supporting your viewpoint, yes, I would be willing to change my views on this- if my vet looked at the material and advised me to do so.

That's my vet's job. I'm not here to do assignments for anyone
Like I say, as my own vet, and other vets I've spoken with have advised me that the practise of fasting a dog for 24 hours has now changed, I'm going to go along with them. Why don't you ask your own vet?

I referred to the latest version of Merck, available online, but the most important point of reference- to go back to my original point- is one's vet, and not online advice.

That particular piece on the Merck website dates back to 2011.
Like I say, advice to not fast your dog any more is relatively new.

DBB

OP, you might find this interesting... zoonotic diseases that can pass between dogs and humans. It's a bit heavy on the terminology but you'll get the gist
It's probably fair to say that if a dog can transfer an infection/disease to a human, they can transfer them amongst each other... I'm guessing that the list of conditions that can pass between dogs is longer than the dog-to-human list...
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/12/12-0664-t1

tk123

Hey come to think of it Lucy woke me up one night last week panting - it was a warm night so at first I thought she was just hot but brought her out after a while, dodgy poo and she was back in bed fast asleep before I got the door locked ..and I was left wide awake. :rolleyes: She was up at 3 the first time and I brought her out again before 6 and the same thing.. She got sick in between as well - some bits of stick :rolleyes: I remember now because when I went to bring her down the second time I had to give Bailey a biscuit bribe to get up out of the way - the slightest inkling of her getting sick and he races over to the other side of the room and goes asleep against the door afraid she might puke on him!!

She was fine by the afternoon - I gave her probiotics and a few spoons of whatever mince they were having that day for breakfast and my mum gave her a full dinner by mistake but all good. Tripe the next day for breakfast and dinner.

I use YuDigest (formally known as YumPro) and would have it spare in case they get an upset tummy.

dishdash

DBB wrote: »

That's my vet's job. I'm not here to do assignments for anyone
Like I say, as my own vet, and other vets I've spoken with have advised me that the practise of fasting a dog for 24 hours has now changed, I'm going to go along with them. Why don't you ask your own vet?




That particular piece on the Merck website dates back to 2011.
Like I say, advice to not fast your dog any more is relatively new.

Without a systematic review or meta-analysis to back up, I would imagine that most vets who practice evidence based medicine would disregard on this basis.
Please reference this new research, or else don't mention it to support your arguments.

I would advise people to consult their vet on the matter.
With respect, you seem to be more concerned with winning an argument than advising people correctly.
You have no business dispensing advice on fasting.

Kovu

dishdash wrote: »

Without a systematic review or meta-analysis to back up, I would imagine that most vets who practice evidence based medicine would disregard on this basis.
Please reference this new research, or else don't mention it to support your arguments.

I would advise people to consult their vet on the matter.
With respect, you seem to be more concerned with winning an argument than advising people correctly.
You have no business dispensing advice on fasting.

That's a bit harsh. Most people here have lots of experience with dogs and would regularly be talking to vets or people with a lot of experience with dogs. If vets are advising it now and it's quoted here as so I'd take that as good advice with a pinch of salt- not veterinary advice. Some people can't afford a vet visit each time a small matter pops up and as runny poops/vomiting is usually associated with basic digestive issues it wouldn't be something to worry about unnecessarily.

dishdash

Kovu wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. Most people here have lots of experience with dogs and would regularly be talking to vets or people with a lot of experience with dogs. If vets are advising it now and it's quoted here as so I'd take that as good advice with a pinch of salt- not veterinary advice. Some people can't afford a vet visit each time a small matter pops up and as runny poops/vomiting is usually associated with basic digestive issues it wouldn't be something to worry about unnecessarily.

I have a lot of experience with dogs
So much so, in fact, that I realise how limited my knowledge is.
It's just a pity that some people are less self aware and feel in a position to advise.
A phone call to your vet might suffice. You may not need to visit. Now that's advice that can be replied on.

DBB

dishdash wrote: »

Without a systematic review or meta-analysis to back up, I would imagine that most vets who practice evidence based medicine would disregard on this basis.
Please reference this new research, or else don't mention it to support your arguments.

I think you may have picked me up wrong.
It is my vet's job to keep up to date with the new research, reviews and/or meta-analyses, not mine. I trust when my vet says to me when I call her about my vomiting dog which I've fasted for 24 hours says "Ohhh... don't fast her. That's not advised any more", that she is basing that advice on her reading of best practice interpeted from the latest research and evidence. We'd have subsequently chatted for quite some time about the whys, when and wheres of why one doesn't fast one's dog any more.
It's not my job to read the research, and I don't have to back up everything I say with links to the primary reseach (I often do, as it happens, but not tonight Josephine), as I would consider what I've been advised by my vet to suffice on matters veterinary.

With respect, you seem to be more concerned with winning an argument than advising people correctly.
You have no business dispensing advice on fasting.

Well that's me told, isn't it I'm not one bit interested in arguing with you at all... Anyone would think I annoyed you before in a previous life or something

Kovu

dishdash wrote: »

I have a lot of experience with dogs
So much so, in fact, that I realise how limited my knowledge is.
It's just a pity that some people are less self aware and feel in a position to advise.
A phone call to your vet might suffice. You may not need to visit. Now that's advice that can be replied on.

Yes, people are allowed to advise, just as people are allowed to ignore that advice if they so wish. Just because you feel like bothering the vet each time a slight issue emerges with your dog doesn't mean everyone does the same.
Common sense and experience goes a long way, especially if a poster here has had a similar experience and can explain the advise given by the vet at that time. Now if people were suggesting 'quack' remedies then I'd agree with you but everything suggested to the OP so far is very sensible.

dishdash

Only my opinion folks.

dishdash

Kovu wrote: »

Yes, people are allowed to advise, just as people are allowed to ignore that advice if they so wish. Just because you feel like bothering the vet each time a slight issue emerges with your dog doesn't mean everyone does the same.
Common sense and experience goes a long way, especially if a poster here has had a similar experience and can explain the advise given by the vet at that time. Now if people were suggesting 'quack' remedies then I'd agree with you but everything suggested to the OP so far is very sensible.

Yes, it's important to duck those quack cures. Dr Charla Tan and co.
Agreed, in all seriousness.

muddypaws

DBB wrote: »

I think you may have picked me up wrong.
It is my vet's job to keep up to date with the new research, reviews and/or meta-analyses, not mine. I trust when my vet says to me when I call her about my vomiting dog which I've fasted for 24 hours says "Ohhh... don't fast her. That's not advised any more", that she is basing that advice on her reading of best practice interpeted from the latest research and evidence. We'd have subsequently chatted for quite some time about the whys, when and wheres of why one doesn't fast one's dog any more.
It's not my job to read the research, and I don't have to back up everything I say with links to the primary reseach (I often do, as it happens, but not tonight Josephine), as I would consider what I've been advised by my vet to suffice on matters veterinary.



Well that's me told, isn't it I'm not one bit interested in arguing with you at all... Anyone would think I annoyed you before in a previous life or something

Well, it all depends if your vet was trained at UCD, or got their degree abroad, or on the internet.

tk123

Kovu wrote: »

Yes, people are allowed to advise, just as people are allowed to ignore that advice if they so wish. Just because you feel like bothering the vet each time a slight issue emerges with your dog doesn't mean everyone does the same.
Common sense and experience goes a long way, especially if a poster here has had a similar experience and can explain the advise given by the vet at that time. Now if people were suggesting 'quack' remedies then I'd agree with you but everything suggested to the OP so far is very sensible.

+1 I live in the city and we use a busy practice. My vet normally emails blood results when everything is fine or if there's something off with them and she needs my opinion would call me late into the evening - she doesn't get a minute all day so I wouldn't bother her with a trivial thing I can sort myself and have no worries about. That actually speeds things up because if I do go over I'm usually a few steps ahead of everyone else - eg I've already rested and given the spare painkillers she gave last time for a sore leg/pulled muscle etc etc

And no MP's she didn't train in UCD....(which suits me fine!)

dishdash

tk123 wrote: »

+1 I live in the city and we use a busy practice. My vet normally emails blood results when everything is fine or if there's something off with them and she needs my opinion would call me late into the evening - she doesn't get a minute all day so I wouldn't bother her with a trivial thing I can sort myself and have no worries about. That actually speeds things up because if I do go over I'm usually a few steps ahead of everyone else - eg I've already rested and given the spare painkillers she gave last time for a sore leg/pulled muscle etc etc

And no MP's she didn't train in UCD....(which suits me fine!)

Your opinion!

borderlinemeath

My vet would also advise to offer food throughout a bug or stomach upset. That's their opinion!

I would be confident that they attend refresher courses and seminars to keep up to date on the latest research. I've been attending them almost 9 years with my pets/fosters/visitors and I've noticed they do streamline their advice on up to date thinking such as their policy on neutering of large breed dogs has now changed to wait for the dog to be fully grown rather than at 6 months as it used to be.

I do think that practices that specialise in domesticated pets are more on the ball rather than your rural farm vet who try and cover all from cattle to sheep to dogs to degus and probably wouldn't be just as sharp on the latest research and advice. Time and again on this forum you have posters questioning dubious advice given to them from a vet and when questioned they have attended a typical old school rural farm vet as opposed to small animal/domesticated pet specialist vet. Times change, advice changes, drugs and treatments evolve and the vets should keep up to date on clinical and research updates in their profession. But some don't, perhaps because it's not the bread and butter of their business model.

dishdash

borderlinemeath wrote: »

My vet would also advise to offer food throughout a bug or stomach upset. That's their opinion!

I would be confident that they attend refresher courses and seminars to keep up to date on the latest research. I've been attending them almost 9 years with my pets/fosters/visitors and I've noticed they do streamline their advice on up to date thinking such as their policy on neutering of large breed dogs has now changed to wait for the dog to be fully grown rather than at 6 months as it used to be.

I do think that practices that specialise in domesticated pets are more on the ball rather than your rural farm vet who try and cover all from cattle to sheep to dogs to degus and probably wouldn't be just as sharp on the latest research and advice. Time and again on this forum you have posters questioning dubious advice given to them from a vet and when questioned they have attended a typical old school rural farm vet as opposed to small animal/domesticated pet specialist vet. Times change, advice changes, drugs and treatments evolve and the vets should keep up to date on clinical and research updates in their profession. But some don't, perhaps because it's not the bread and butter of their business model.

Decent advice in fact
Find a practice you are happy with and stick with it
If you're not happy with the advice given, ask a few questions
Agreed

muddypaws

dishdash wrote: »

Only my opinion folks.

dishdash wrote: »

Your opinion!

Difference being?